Omega Newbie Questions (Amps, Speaker Cable)

nychorner · « **on:** 28 Sep 2009, 02:59 pm »

Hello all!

So I just bought some Omega Super 8 Alnicos with the Skylan Stands--on their way here as we speak. I just wanted to post a couple of questions if anyone has time to answer them:

1. I have an Almarro 205mkII and a Melody H2A amp. It seems like some people here have the Almarro but no rave reviews. Does anyone have any thoughts on these combos or amps they replaced them with that made a huge difference? Clearly, RWA amps figure prominently here. Any other magic amps with Omegas (I saw some Leben, Manley, and Decware references)? I don't think I can quite afford RWA and Leben which is why I'm asking.
2. I read the speaker cable thread and it seems that a lot of people are using the Anti-Cables and the DNM cables (as well as some RS DIYs that bprice2 described). Can anyone who has heard all of these or others, namely Louis, recommend what they like best? Are the RadioShack cables really that close to the others? Has anyone used the DIY White Lightning Moonshine Cables?

Thanks a lot. I am totally psyched to join the following.

almonduck · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 04:09 pm »

Welcome. I'm a new Omega owner as well. I also owned the Almarro 205A with Horn Shoppe Horns and Fritz Speakers 4" Hemps. Recently, I paired a friend's Almarro with a Kingrex preamp on my Max Hemps (thanks Rod). It took away some of the slight glare and improved the soundstage. Currently, I'm listening to my Max Hemps with a RWA 30.2 (thanks nonoise) and it has better bottom control than the Almarro and I'd say it's another step up. It's reaallllly nice, as many here have described. I agree the RWA is more expensive, but selling two amps opened up some choices for me. If it helps justify the higher upfront expense of the RWA, with no tubes and higher efficiency, running costs will be lowered so you'll save some money over the long run.

nychorner · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 04:35 pm »

Thanks almonduck! So, the Almarro alone had a little glare? RWA might be the inevitable conclusion... You know, I just had a pair of Hornshoppe horns as well. What are your impressions of Hornshoppes vs. Omegas?

almonduck · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 05:06 pm »

I'd say slight glare when pushed or on some music. I had the same upgraded tubes used in the 6Moon review. The Kingrex preamp made a big difference. The Eastern Electric Minimax 8wpc is another amp that sounds great with Omegas, but I'm not sure if the 8" Alnico would benefit from more juice. Maybe other can comment.

I liked my Horns, but on some music with deep bass or that got busy, the 4" showed its limitations and would get congested at louder volumes. Corner loading helped, but then the sound was less open. As you know, coherence and imaging was great. They have lots of positives. I never tried them with a sub. I think they compare well with the Omega 3xrs, but I never had them in the same room. I also tried both the stock Fostex driver in the Horns and an ENabled driver that I liked better. Mine were also bottom filled with 20lbs of BBs. I found the bass and small details improved with both tweaks. For some of the funky R&B I listen to, the larger 8" Omegas deliver that bottom kick that you can feel rather than just hear with the smaller drivers.

I heard the Super 6 and the Alnico driver is smooth. Your Super 8 should be impressive. Once I got my Max Hemps/ferrite on some small wood dots, the details I was looking for fell into place. Herbie Big Dots didn't do it for me, but were great under the Horns. I'm looking forward to hearing the Super 6xrs and 8xrs at the RMAF next week.

JLM · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Sep 2009, 07:03 pm »

I have single driver speakers with 8 inch AlNiCo and have tried the Decware Torii. It had lots of resolution (detail/imaging), it sounded very "alive" but the bass was badly bloated (my speakers reach below 30 Hz in room). I also tried the Decware Select amp and it just didn't have anywhere near enough power (my drivers are slightly less efficient than your's will be). Note that I am a firm believer in having foundational bass and sufficient power, but am not a basshead and don't listen at high spls.

I'm old school enough to not want to spend big money on cabling (until the 90s used zip cord). But in the last 10 years I've gone through single pairs of multi-strand CAT-5, single pairs of solid core, cryo'd, plenum rated, teflon coated CAT-5, Element Cables Twisted Pair, and now use Scott Endler's 12 gauge foil/air cables. Each provided an improvement, cost ranged from $10 - $150 per pair. No need to spend a ton. Blue Jean, Signal, Element, and Scott Endler all have good stuff. Check out used cable sources too (like the Audio Circle trading post below).

ZLS · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Sep 2009, 04:04 pm »

Quote from: nychorner on 28 Sep 2009, 02:59 pm

Hello all!

So I just bought some Omega Super 8 Alnicos with the Skylan Stands--on their way here as we speak. I just wanted to post a couple of questions if anyone has time to answer them:

1. I have an Almarro 205mkII and a Melody H2A amp. It seems like some people here have the Almarro but no rave reviews. Does anyone have any thoughts on these combos or amps they replaced them with that made a huge difference? Clearly, RWA amps figure prominently here. Any other magic amps with Omegas (I saw some Leben, Manley, and Decware references)? I don't think I can quite afford RWA and Leben which is why I'm asking.
2. I read the speaker cable thread and it seems that a lot of people are using the Anti-Cables and the DNM cables (as well as some RS DIYs that bprice2 described). Can anyone who has heard all of these or others, namely Louis, recommend what they like best? Are the RadioShack cables really that close to the others? Has anyone used the DIY White Lightning Moonshine Cables?

Thanks a lot. I am totally psyched to join the following.

Hello,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Omega Speakers! You are about to find yourself emotionally involved in your music to a degree that would would have not thought possible.

Omega Speakers thrive on current. Do not be so concerned about the wattage and amp delivers, be more concerned about the current that it supplies.
I know that Louis is sharing a room with Virtue Audio, which builds chip amps that offer the option of multiple power supplies which address this issue.
Red Wine Audio which is battery powered also is strong on current.

Regarding wires and cables, regardless of which speaker cable you choose it is most important to have a double run of cables on the positive terminal. While there may be varying thoughts that attempt to explain why this works, there is no disagreement that it does work to an amazing degree.The Drivers are internally wired this way as shown on Omega's Website.

I personally have had great results with the cables and wires from Sound Design Lab of Evanston, which does have Louis's seal of approval.

You will find the Omega community very helpful with no shortage of opinions, of which this is one.

rajacat · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Sep 2009, 04:54 pm »

I use rebuilt/upgraded Heathkit W5m KT66 monoblocks (~25w/ch) with my Omega Hemp Bipoles to great satisfaction. I know that in the past Louis has recommended kits by Dynakits http://www.dynakitparts.com/store/. Despite their high efficiency, Omegas like and can handle plenty of power. I haven't heard of many Omegas being run with low power SETs.

I imagine that this Dodd battery powered tube amp would form an amiable synergy with most single driver designs.http://doddaudio.com/battery_powered_amp.aspx It would be dead quite and have high current battery power.

-Roy

Louis O · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 12:40 am »

Hi nychorner,

All great posts here and I do like the dynakit stuff as they have an amazing sound and value. You can do a lot of tube rolling.

Will be off to the show and have 2 rooms going. One is the Virtue audio and the other is Art Forma. These are a new amp line and affordable too.

I will report on these for sure.

Thanks,
Louis

nychorner · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 06:44 pm »

Thanks everyone. Lots of good advice.

Just got the speakers and WOW!

Holy crap! I set-up the stands, took the speakers out, plopped them down, wired 2 positives/1negative, paid almost no attention to placement, and turned it on and bam! Either I got very lucky on placement or my room is very forgiving or something because they were amazing right out of the box. Great tone, huge soundstage, very pure and musical. Man. They are A LOT better than those hornshoppe horns. Granted, they are a lot more expensive but still. Major major upgrade for me. Don't feel like much of anything is missing right now. If I had to nitpick, and it's probably the amp, but i wish i had a little more lower midrange/bass fullness. I don't think it has anything to do with the speakers. because i've had that problem before.

I am currently using the "White Lightning Moonshine" extension cord speaker cables that were popular DIY with the Hornshoppe horns and featured by Jeff Day. Not sure if anyone has compared them to other things that have been recommended. Who knows, maybe it's bs, but I've had other cables including the AntiCables, Signal Cable, and I preferred these cheapo ones more but lots has changed on my system now so who knows? I think i might try some 3 wire solid copper DIY versions with different configs so I'll let people know how it turns out. Regarding the DNM cables, I found them a little bright when used as interconnects but again, who knows? Any thoughts? Would love to have some Auditorium 23 cables but too much $$$. Anyone know how those are made?

Regarding amps, I am quite pleased with this Melody A23 amp I have plugged-in but haven't compared anything else yet. This may be a silly question but how does one know whether an amp is high current or not? The A23 is 18w/channel with big handwound Japanese iron transformers but it is probably not "high-current" right. I feel like I am just avoiding the inevitable pull of RWA...

Capt. Z · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 07:12 pm »

As your speakers break in, could you give us/me a comparison between the Omega and Hornshoppe Horns, since I was considering trying some Horns?

Thanks

rajacat · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 07:22 pm »

I checked out the Melody website and I can't find the A23 amp. If you have the I2A3 or the M2A3 IMO you'd have to pay big $$$ to do much better. Those are ~$4000 amps with great reviews . Personally I'd stick with tube amps. If I didn't have my nice Heathkits I would probably spring for the Dodd battery tube amp.

If you want more more lower midrange/bass fullness employ twin subs with a high pass filter. Also room treatments can make a significent difference.

-Roy

jsaliga · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 08:01 pm »

I have a Melody I2A3 that I use to drive a pair of AKG K1000 ear speakers using a Denon DVD-5910CI as a source.

I haven't tried it with my Omega Max Hemps (I have a pair of 300B SET mono blocks for them), but I can tell you that the Melody is a very well made amp and is sweet with my AKG setup. I think you would be very hard pressed to find a better amp at its price point.

--Jerome

nychorner · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 09:11 pm »

I have the H2A, which was the precurser to the I2A3 and really not released here. I think there were very few even made in 110v. Its possible that its actually more like an integrated version of the M2A3 monoblocks. It was their top of the line amp and released mostly in Asia and Europe. I think it has most of the same internal parts (Jensen caps, Dale/Tantalum resistors, point to point, ceramic tube sockets, stepped atenuator, hand wound japanese iron transformers, etc) but the layout was different and the tube componentry was different than the I2A3. it uses 2 5ar4 rectifiers and 2 12au7's for the pre it came stock with NOS 40s Sylvania 6sl7's which is pretty cool! It retailed for around $4k, but I just got it on A'gon for $800 and it is basically brand new. I think it's great but I haven't heard it against the I2A3, which might be even better (the review certainly was glowing!). Anything that anyone knows about this amp would be great!

The speakers are not new. Sorry for the confusion. They are used SuperHemps that were upgraded this spring to the new Alnico driver, brass screws, etc. by Louis. They are an aperiodic version. I also got them on Audiogon. So they should be broken-in. They are totally mint though. I feel very very lucky to have found them used for a very reasonable price that i could afford.

I will definitely give a breakdown of the differences with the Hornshoppes if you want but i can tell you this: in my set-up with my gear the Omegas blow them away. its not close. I unpacked them and plunked them down without considering their placement, hooked them up to my relatively crappy cables (2+/1-) and put on a record and sat down. When the music started it was an instantanious wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling wall of fantastic tone, perfectly articulated plucked strings, sweet midrange vocals, nice tight articulated bass, blah blah blah. Seriously. It was like that. i was grinning ear to ear. So...even if I couldn't improve on things i would be pretty happy, but you know how this thing goes. we grow restless... kind of a problem when you think about it, but the journey is fun.

nychorner · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Oct 2009, 09:18 pm »

Also, thanks to everyone for recommending all those new amps! I've never heard of the Dodd or the two that Louis is showing with. Those all sound pretty cool. I would love to hear them. Has anyone heard them?

Dinho · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Oct 2009, 02:03 pm »

Quote from: nychorner on 28 Sep 2009, 02:59 pm

Hello all!

So I just bought some Omega Super 8 Alnicos with the Skylan Stands--on their way here as we speak.

Hi,

Excuse me abouth my english...

I bought an Omega Super 8 with Mr. Louis and have some difficulties to buy the stand with Mr. Noel (Skylan)...

When and where you buy your Skylan?

Thanks.

Osvaldo Abreu (from Brazil)

rbello · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Oct 2009, 06:47 pm »

Hi Louis, got a 4-yr old Omega 8R Grande from a friend, the one with Fostex speakers. What upgrade path would be possible considering in far away the Philippines.

Kind regards,

Ramon

doctorcilantro · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 05:58 am »

I'm itching to try the Mini-torii ~~but hesitant after reading about it here.~~ I see the post was about the original Torii which was actually quite different from what I have read on steve's web site.

I have some Omega 3i, the 4.5" driver in a smaller box.

I currently use an Eastern Electric 6BM8 based Minimax. I like the Dodd but the EE is point to point and tube rectified, and sounds pretty great.

Maybe I shouldn't scratch this itch!

DC

doctorcilantro · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 06:34 am »

I'm really interested in the revised Zen Triode now that it can run more tubes:

Quote

This 6 watt per channel Single Ended Triode amplifier is now compatible with EL34's, Kt77, 6550 and KT88 output tubes. Taking advantage of the unique qualities of the EL34 this amp comes standard with the Hazen Grid Mod. As a result, the transparency and musicality it has sets a new benchmark that we feel far exceeds popular triodes such as the 300B, 2A3, 45, etc.

I wish I could try this and the Mini-Torii. I like the tube compliment on the Zen Triode but it's a bit taller which is a minor condition, but one to consider, for me besides sound.

the Torii runs very cool. I'd love to try some KT90 in the Zen, and it has multiple inputs which I could use as I just have my DAC here; a fixed or variable output would be handy for me too.

I torn between the two. I like the ingenuity and uniqueness of the Torri and all the tube regulatin. One thing I asked Steve to clear up was the fact that the Mini-torii is described as 6w x 2 on the main page, but 3w x 2 in the specs (also mentioned 5U4 which I don't see in the Torii diagram or picture anywhere).

DC

Flyin_V · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 09:22 am »

Is anyone here running a low power amp (2-3 wpc) w/the 5s or Alnico 6s?? I really like the Decware Zen Select but am concerned w/the 93 db sensativity. Does having no crossover allow the speaker to play louder than it's rated sensativity? My current speakers are rated about 92-93 db w/ a coil on the 2X5" carbon fiber drivers and a cap on the tweet and a Zen will clip at 90db peaks @ 6' in my room. I sure would like another 6db at least.

Thanks for sharing all the wisdom around here.

~Lary

Alwayswantmore · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 03:27 am »

Quote from: almonduck on 28 Sep 2009, 05:06 pm

I'd say slight glare when pushed or on some music. I had the same upgraded tubes used in the 6Moon review. The Kingrex preamp made a big difference. The Eastern Electric Minimax 8wpc is another amp that sounds great with Omegas, but I'm not sure if the 8" Alnico would benefit from more juice. Maybe other can comment.

I liked my Horns, but on some music with deep bass or that got busy, the 4" showed its limitations and would get congested at louder volumes. Corner loading helped, but then the sound was less open. As you know, coherence and imaging was great. They have lots of positives. I never tried them with a sub. I think they compare well with the Omega 3xrs, but I never had them in the same room. I also tried both the stock Fostex driver in the Horns and an ENabled driver that I liked better. Mine were also bottom filled with 20lbs of BBs. I found the bass and small details improved with both tweaks. For some of the funky R&B I listen to, the larger 8" Omegas deliver that bottom kick that you can feel rather than just hear with the smaller drivers.

I heard the Super 6 and the Alnico driver is smooth. Your Super 8 should be impressive. Once I got my Max Hemps/ferrite on some small wood dots, the details I was looking for fell into place. Herbie Big Dots didn't do it for me, but were great under the Horns. I'm looking forward to hearing the Super 6xrs and 8xrs at the RMAF next week.

Can you tell us more about the small wood dots, brand, where you place them, etc. Thanks, Kent