[wushuliu]

Well I am kind of fed up. I left the 2-way world behind last year and have been enjoying FR experience with Minidsp and separate woofers. But after analyzing gain structure in my setup (which uses PC audio as source as well as a ht receiver for movies/tv) I realized that I need a preamp to allow me to max out the volume on my PC. So I ordered the Pioneer 912 that's abuzz in the Critic's Circle. yay. Problem is I am going to need more cabling to hook my tube amp to the 912 and pass-through the woofers and... ugh, a headache. I am honestly contemplating going back to passive multi-ways just to make things easier.

But I won't give up yet. Here's my thought: Just get more sensitive drivers. Use the 912 as an amplifer and crossover to woofer using sub out put at 100hz or less.

The 912 is recommended at 8 ohms and higher and so far feedback is 90db and up preferred for sensitvity. Currently I have a bunch of Mark Audio drivers (A6s, EL70s, CHR70sGen1) but they are either 4ohm and/or low sensitivity or won't go low enough comfortably for my needs and Alpair 12 is not in stock anywhere.

I want to cover my bases. A driver that will go low enough to cross to sub in bookshelf size, 90db and up, and 8ohms or higher. Also looking for larger than 3". I realize I prefer dynamics to midrange 'finesse' as Planet10 likes to put it. This way no matter what amp situation I am in I will be okay. The ace in the hole is I will continue to use the Minidsp to feed the amp so I should be able to shape the  driver response-wise regardless of amp.

I listen at 3m equilateral triangle. Speakers no more than 2ft from wall (so no OB). Right now I am leaning towards TangBand W5-1611, Fostex FF125WK, and Audio Nirvana 6.5 (little nervous about this one, but like I said I can shape it w/ Minidsp).

BTW, this is for DIY. Not looking to buy commercial.

I am tired of searching threads. My brain hurts. Any suggestions?

[JLM]

If you have enough drivers sitting around you could consider doubling them up per cabinet, with one up-firing which would cut your impedance in half.  With only 2 feet to the wall the best you could do to stimulate a bipole would be upward or slanted backwards (halfway between up-firing and completely back-firing).

The Brines Acoustics T7-A7 could be doubled up to give a total cabinet size of 17.5" x 13" x 8.25".  Plans available for $25:

http://brinesacoustics.com/Pages/T7-A7/Main.html

[chrisby]

I'd give the FF125WK or FF165WK a good look .  The former can work well in a vented enclosure as small as 5 or so liters, which makes it a perfect size to perch on top of a pair of woofers if you so choose.  So far I've only heard the 165WK in a full height floorstander - in which it doesn't disappoint (although some bat-eared or young-uns might want to add a tweeter).  No doubt it could work well in a moderate sized bookshelf enclosure ( 12-15 liters?) 


I think you're already familiar enough with Mark's drivers to understand that the Alpair7.3 would have its charms as well - in an enclosure such as the Pensil or Bob's folded TL, it might just dig low enough to not require augmentation.  You're probably also aware of a couple of other enclosure designs for the A7 that I could recommend. 

It's far more "efficient" at delivering music that the rated sensitivity implies. 

 

[planet10]

I would 2nd Chris' suggestion of FF125wk, but from what Chris has reported about 1611, that would not be a hardship either.

dave

[wushuliu]

I'd give the FF125WK or FF165WK a good look .  The former can work well in a vented enclosure as small as 5 or so liters, which makes it a perfect size to perch on top of a pair of woofers if you so choose.  So far I've only heard the 165WK in a full height floorstander - in which it doesn't disappoint (although some bat-eared or young-uns might want to add a tweeter).  No doubt it could work well in a moderate sized bookshelf enclosure ( 12-15 liters?) 


I think you're already familiar enough with Mark's drivers to understand that the Alpair7.3 would have its charms as well - in an enclosure such as the Pensil or Bob's folded TL, it might just dig low enough to not require augmentation.  You're probably also aware of a couple of other enclosure designs for the A7 that I could recommend. 

It's far more "efficient" at delivering music that the rated sensitivity implies. 

 

Thanks. I am giving the 1611 and FFs a hard look. I'd like to branch out from the MA drivers - he's already got enough of my money!

[Jeffr1966]

a number of design choices for the Jordan JX92s drivers ... sensitivity would be a bit lower than 90db though I am afraid but all your other criteria would be met

[JohnR]

I want to cover my bases. A driver that will go low enough to cross to sub in bookshelf size, 90db and up, and 8ohms or higher. Also looking for larger than 3". I realize I prefer dynamics to midrange 'finesse' as Planet10 likes to put it. This way no matter what amp situation I am in I will be okay. The ace in the hole is I will continue to use the Minidsp to feed the amp so I should be able to shape the  driver response-wise regardless of amp.

I was going to say that it sounds like you might want an 8"... looking at the Madisound store, I saw these:

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=293&Itemid=255

Nice price:

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-fullrange/seas-prestige-fa22rcz-h1597-08-8-fullrange/

Needs a largish box, but models out at 70Hz in sealed. What's interesting is that the FR looks almost the same as the Exotic. Perhaps it uses the same cone and surround?

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=193&Itemid=189

(I haven't heard them, but they look interesting )

[JohnR]

Hah hah, and I just now noticed that your thread title says "bookshelf sized"     

[chrisby]

Hah hah, and I just now noticed that your thread title says "bookshelf sized"     

I've even seen guys considering 6-8" drivers for a computer nearfield ( as in less than 3 ft) situation.  For all their shortcomings, this is exactly where I think the little full rangers excel.

and even Mark would probably agree with the democratization of your spending habits

[wushuliu]

I've decided to go for the FF165wk and maybe build an enclosure similar to Bob Brines. His measurements seemed show an acceptable top end, but if that's not the case what would be some super/tweeter options?

Hah hah, and I just now noticed that your thread title says "bookshelf sized"     

Yes, I thought about 8" towers - I also thought about how single I would be the second they were done.

[planet10]

The usual suspects are small horns, FT17, FT96, T90. If you can find some Radio Shack "tweeter pods" they have some nice little horns i rank a bit above FT17 (especially if you get older ones with Al horns -- i have lots of the plastic horned ones). You might get away with some of the cheap horns, the pair of Goldwoods i got need to be disassembled and the plastic mouldings detailed at a minimum.

People have also been using domes (ie ERT26) or ribbons, bit they will have alarger dispersion flare at the bottom of their passband (i guess you could waveguide load the appropriate dome)

dave

[roscoeiii]

Hi Planet10,

Not clear what you mean by the ones with the Al horns. And how do you ID those vs others? The Al horns the ones made in Japan?

Have you compared those to the T90s by any chance?

[wushuliu]

I've even seen guys considering 6-8" drivers for a computer nearfield ( as in less than 3 ft) situation.  For all their shortcomings, this is exactly where I think the little full rangers excel.

and even Mark would probably agree with the democratization of your spending habits

Chris, what did you think of the low level resolution capabilities of the 1611?

[planet10]

Hi Planet10,

Not clear what you mean by the ones with the Al horns. And how do you ID those vs others? The Al horns the ones made in Japan?

Have you compared those to the T90s by any chance?

Not sure how you would tell (without one of each) what you had in hand. The Al horn is heavier and will get a patina of oxidized metal if in the right environs.

dave

[roscoeiii]

Thanks Dave.

[chrisby]

Chris, what did you think of the low level resolution capabilities of the 1611?

To be honest it was more than a few months ago that I briefly heard these in the FH3, in which they embarrass the FE138ESR, but I've not listened to them since.  I'd be BSing to say I could remember how they sounded.    FWIW,  for low level resolution, the Alpair7.3 and EL70 papers are probably my current favorites*, but as I think you know, most of my listening is to drivers with a "treatment" that I consider enhances that performance aspect.  So far the new WK drivers noted above (125/165) have barely been broken in, and are still stock. The FF85WK on the other hand is just silly good;  certainly on my short list for a near field / computer use -  but definitely needs help below, say 120-150 for larger venues / listening levels - which might be a bit too high to seamlessly integrate with a single "sub" .   


*as in- if you ask me today....  but we need to drag the TBs out for another listening session this Sunday. 

[wushuliu]

In anticipation of the new FRs I bought a pair of black gloss cabs from PE and some 3" Roxul to line them with. I know MDF is poo poo'ed by some but I am tired of building cabs and I kind of suck at it and after all these years of messing around I want to have a build that actually looks good, and man those cabs are shiny.

[planet10]

a pair of black gloss cabs from PE

The curved ones?

dave

[wushuliu]

The curved ones?

dave

alas, no, though my gut told me to get those. I know they probably perform better than the standard cabs. But they are more expensive and there's a sale on the spare baffles for the standard cab. Oh, well. It's a hobby of compromises.

[planet10]

Your gut was right ... the curved are easily worth the extra... alot of bracing work needs doing on the rectangular ones.

dave