Best way to get PHONO pre for my Odyssey set up

Countrypie · « **on:** 8 Aug 2023, 01:59 am »

I don't why but streaming is the best in my setup. Vinyl is just okay. Maybe I have the Moon pre plugged into wrong RCA in the Candella? Maybe I need a different pre? Any suggestions? I have an MC Ortofon Q. Using a Moon 110 plugged into the back of the candella. What is best practice? currently moon into Candella to Stratos' to Buchardt S400's.

nlitworld · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Aug 2023, 02:17 pm »

Whats the table and cartridge?

Countrypie · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Aug 2023, 04:15 pm »

projext X1 with Ortofon Quintet S. thank you

S Clark · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Aug 2023, 04:28 pm »

Quote from: Countrypie on 8 Aug 2023, 04:15 pm

projext X1 with Ortofon Quintet S. thank you

Is that the Black S? Nice cartridge. Did it come factory set up? If not who mounted it? In general that Quintet series are easy to mount.
I noted a review that specifically mentioned the Moon not being a good match for the Quintet series. https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/moon-110lp-v2 But you never know with reviewers.

Countrypie · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Aug 2023, 04:45 pm »

Yes i had it mounted. Any thoughts on the tempest supporting this?

S Clark · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Aug 2023, 05:02 pm »

I'd look for a way to check that mounting. That's a fine cartridge and a solid enough TT to get excellent sound. Perhaps borrow another phono pre to try?
If the mounting isn't right, the sound isn't right.

Countrypie · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Aug 2023, 11:31 pm »

Thanks I am gonna try some preamps. Was thinking a tempest but I don't see how I can adjust the gain. Nor do I understand how this would port into the Candella I have. Here i go spending money trying various preamps. Thinking i should use SS since the Candella has tubes.?

S Clark · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Aug 2023, 01:02 am »

Quote from: Countrypie on 8 Aug 2023, 11:31 pm

Thanks I am gonna try some preamps. Was thinking a tempest but I don't see how I can adjust the gain. Nor do I understand how this would port into the Candella I have. Here i go spending money trying various preamps. Thinking i should use SS since the Candella has tubes.?

Look at something with a 30 day return policy. I think Music Direct has a 60 day policy.
I'm still betting on the cartridge mounting, but it could be a bad loading match with the phonostage.

nlitworld · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Aug 2023, 12:50 pm »

Couple questions on your current setup so far before you go down the rabbit hole chasing performance. First off, your Moon phono stage is designed to be left on at all times. Do you leave it on or do you turn it on and off for each listening session? Furthermore on the phono stage side, what are the operating settings you're currently running as far as impedance and gain settings? Next, your cartridge has a couple quirks compared to others in that it recommends a 20° tracking angle, where others carts seem to use 23°. Have you checked the setup of the cart for that? Also for the cart it recommends a bit stronger tracking force at 2.3g where a lot of others are ~1.8g.

I know these all seem like small little adjustment settings but they can play a major part in squeezing extra performance out of your system and thus boosting your excitement and joy when listening.

-Lloyd

GeneS · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Aug 2023, 01:08 pm »

Hello @Countrypie
Some excellent suggestions here to make sure that what you currently have is operating at peak performance. Once that’s been confirmed, you may (or may not) want to look at some different phono preamps.
I think the Tempest offered by Odyssey is a solid state preamp with a built in phono stage. It would, in essence, replace your Candela and not really be hooked up to it. There probably is no way to adjust the gain on that.
Odyssey offers the Kismet Phono Pre (https://odysseyaudio.com/kismet-phono-preamplifier/) as a stand alone, highly adjustable tube based phono preamp that would hook right up to your Candela.
I know the Moon you have is a well regarded phono pre, but as Klaus says, it’s about system synergy. It may be that the issue is more about synergy between components than an actual “bad” component.
I’d definitely check to make sure what you currently have is set up right, or no component swap is going to fix that.

Countrypie · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Aug 2023, 08:37 pm »

Quote from: nlitworld on 9 Aug 2023, 12:50 pm

Couple questions on your current setup so far before you go down the rabbit hole chasing performance. First off, your Moon phono stage is designed to be left on at all times. Do you leave it on or do you turn it on and off for each listening session? Furthermore on the phono stage side, what are the operating settings you're currently running as far as impedance and gain settings? Next, your cartridge has a couple quirks compared to others in that it recommends a 20° tracking angle, where others carts seem to use 23°. Have you checked the setup of the cart for that? Also for the cart it recommends a bit stronger tracking force at 2.3g where a lot of others are ~1.8g.

I know these all seem like small little adjustment settings but they can play a major part in squeezing extra performance out of your system and thus boosting your excitement and joy when listening.

thanks for the info. I had a HiFi store install the Ortofon and set the moon to proper settings. It's always left on as well. Does it matter which AUX in the Candella?

-Lloyd

Countrypie · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Aug 2023, 08:42 pm »

@nlitworld
@genes

Yes, so I had the Ortofon professionally installed and moon was set up by them.. I may try and grab another pre just to check. I'm wondering if it matters which AUX I should be inserting the RCAs in from the moon into the candella. I also have an Oppo CD that goes into this and when i turn dial all they way it's not very loud. The back of my Candella has no info of what should be used in what RCA.

GentleBender · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Aug 2023, 10:09 pm »

I’m guessing it has something to do with the phono stage. I have a Candela that I have used a couple of the inputs with my phono stage and have had no issues with either one. Finding the right synergy and in your price range can take some work. There are a ton of options. Have you talked with Klaus?

GeneS · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Aug 2023, 10:21 pm »

I don’t think it makes any difference which set of inputs you use. The selector knob on the front of the Candela is labeled, but I think that is for convenience. I don’t think there’s any difference in the operation of any of the inputs.
I also have an Oppo going in to the Candela and it is significantly louder on the same volume setting as my turntable.

nlitworld · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Aug 2023, 10:29 pm »

The main issue on the vinyl side that I could see so far is an impedance mismatch between cart and the Moon phono, or the gain setting being too low. If your impedance setting is on the 10ohm setting, itll likely sound muffled and dull, but the 100ohm setting may be a little lean and bright but is the more correct setting. As for the gain settings that should be maxed out as the output from your cart is 0.3mV which is on the low side.

Double check those settings and if those are all a-ok start shopping some phono preamp options.

Given the configuration on that preamp, which RCA plug you use should not be an issue at all. If you think there could be an issue, contact the company and get it in for a check up. There should be no issue with volume and punchyness of that system, even with somewhat inefficient speakers.

Countrypie · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Aug 2023, 07:07 pm »

can you tell me if this looks right for Quintet Black S

Countrypie · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Aug 2023, 10:01 pm »

@nlitworld

I have tried a bunch of different settings. Got IFI phone 3 to compare to moon. It's the PUNCHINESS this whole thing lacks. I know my system has the potential because with streaming it's punchy. Deep bass. Also my second system is all rega (rp6 with ania pro and Aria) and it has punchiness. It's aggravating I can't get this in my other room. Maybe it's the Ortofon? Maybe it's the tonearm in the project? I may bring the Rega to this setup and compare. I prefer listening to vinyl but the streaming on this system with the Bluesound node is a stark difference. I will post the moon settings next.

Loki57 · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Aug 2023, 10:22 pm »

I myself would try the Rega
in the system.

lazydays · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Aug 2023, 07:46 am »

I too have a Candella, and run a George Wright WP 100 (maybe WP200) phono stage thru it. Sounds wonderful! I've also had two other phono stages in front of it with out a hitch. I found the cables to be somewhat selective, and ended up with a Zu cable. I mostly run a Grado Platinum cartridge, but have used a couple Denons as well. I may swap it out for a Darlington DP-7 this fall. Price is right and has a lot of options
gary

nlitworld · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Aug 2023, 02:47 pm »

It looks like right now you have it set at 60db gain and 100ohm impedance. Not a bad setting for most carts, but ortofon get a little peculiar on settings sometimes. Try flipping to the 72db gain setting and see how that does, then start lowering the impedance settings to 75 and then 33 and then 22. I think the gain setting has some to do with it since your cart is barely above the "recommended" cutoff for thr high dv gain setting. But I do think the impedance setting will play into it. With too high of setting, things will sound thin and tinny, but with too low of setting (too much resistance) then things will sound muffled, super dark and quiet.

Try that out and report back. I'm interested to hear if it makes a decent enough difference before you jump down the rabbit hole of fancy new phono stages.