[Bob in St. Louis]

BUMP an old thread.

Hey all, I ran across some knives, and I'd like your impression and opinion of them (before I buy, not after).
Here's a video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kXMf1UKxEI

And here's the cart with the various knives;
http://www.japanese-knife-store.com/

Seems like a good price, but I'm not sure if they're truly junk or a good value.
Thanks! 

[Bob2]

I like the 170 mm Santoku Very much. Plenty of edge and takes little effort to control.

[S Clark]

I wish they would offer more information. The only brand I know is Tojiro, a lower end knife with decent VG-10 stainless. 
I'd be more confident buying from Chef Knives To Go.  http://www.chefknivestogo.com/  Similar or better prices, a long history of repeat customers, an excellent and active forum-  just a better supplier IMO.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thanks for the lead Scott, at fist glance they look pretty cool.
I don't have a clue what I'm doing, and they've got a BUNCH of names I'm not familiar with. 

[S Clark]

Thanks for the lead Scott, at fist glance they look pretty cool.
I don't have a clue what I'm doing, and they've got a BUNCH of names I'm not familiar with. 

You've got a great resource here in Rob Babcock.  He knows his Japanese knives pretty well.  I know enough to get in trouble.  Having said that, it's important to know what characteristics you value.  Then read up on steels.  Then read what customers had to say about their knives. 
I have some cheapish Shuns that I use quite a bit, and are VG-10 stainless.  But I like Blue #1 steel better.  I also have two HAP-40 steel knives.  They keep an edge for months and months.  There are so many knives, and each do something well-- kinda like putting a stereo together.  Depends on what you value. 
Rob has given good advice to me by PM.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thank you Scott. Yea, I was hoping he'd chime in, as that's his profession. 

[RPM123]

Like S Clark..."I know enough enough to get into trouble".    With that said, I have been very happy with knife purchases from these two sites:

http://www.epicedge.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=1249

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/

There is a lot of information and preferences about the "best" knives, so it can be daunting. Both sites offer buying advice. I prefer all stainless for cutting acidic fruits and vegetables (tomatoes), since high carbon blades will stain. Also, proper (softer wood) cutting boards are better for keeping those fine Japanese edges sharper longer. Good luck.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Great information, thank you. 

[Photon46]

There is a lot of information and preferences about the "best" knives, so it can be daunting. Both sites offer buying advice. I prefer all stainless for cutting acidic fruits and vegetables (tomatoes), since high carbon blades will stain. Also, proper (softer wood) cutting boards are better for keeping those fine Japanese edges sharper longer. Good luck.
[/quote]

FWIW, I found the staining on my carbon steel Japanese knives very easy to clean up with Maas Metal Polish. Polishing the blades just adds a few minutes to my my knife maintenance routine.

[bside123]

There is a great knife and restaurant supply store right in St. Louis! It is an old family-run operation, and it's on "The Hill" in their original, historic location.

They have a lot of expertise, a great assortment of knives, knowledgeable staff (a human to talk to) and a good selection of excellent quality knives from entry level to high-end. It's nice to have an expert at your disposal as well as to be able to hold the various knives in your hand before purchase. I've purchased several really good knives there! Hope this helps.

http://bertarellicutlery.com

[Rob Babcock]

It's sometimes hard to get a bead on all of those knives since the "brands" don't necessarily mean much.  Many different labels/brands are simply OEMs of knives made by a handful of companies.  That's not a bad thing nor is it an underhanded attempt at deception, it's just the way a lot of them are, even in higher end knives.  For instance the highly regarded Hattori HD is made by Blazen/Ryusen and just finished by Hattori.  The knives linked are familiar but I recognize a couple that almost certainly are OEMs of relatively well known knives.  I would generally be inclined to be favorably disposed to them as the craftsmanship and quality among the various Japanese makes is pretty high.

As S Clark points out VG10 is pretty much entry level steel nowadays. There's nothing wrong with it but newer allows have many advantages (eg many of them take a better edge, have better edge retention and are easier to sharpen).  I too like Blue #2 or Ao-Ko more than VG10 for most things.  If you really really need stainless it's not a bad choice, especially if you're not paying a ton.  It's not generally prone to chipping (all steels can chip of course) and it works well across a wide range of applications.

To date the only HAP40 knife I have is a Spyderco pocket knife.  It holds an edge exceptionally well but as of yet I have not sharpened it.  I am itching to get a 240mm HAP40 gyuto from CKTG.

If you do use a metal polish either make sure it's food safe or clean it up really well.  Flitz is my weapon of choice for polishing although I haven't had to buy it recently.  I caught a rumor that the formula has been changed but I have a good supply of it on hand already. 

There's really nothing wrong with letting your knife patina.  In fact, it's a good thing if you knife is HC.  Once you get some patina it will prevent further oxidation and prevent active/red rust from forming.

[Bob in St. Louis]

LOTS of great info here fellas, I thank you all!
I'll be pampering the knife, and it'll never sit in the sink. So I don't "have to have" stainless.
This will be my "go to, all around" knife, so it'll be the jack of all trades in the kitchen.

[jules]

Also, proper (softer wood) cutting boards are better for keeping those fine Japanese edges sharper longer.

Absolutely RPM ... while you didn't mention them, plastic boards are a complete abomination, though here in Australia health "standards" require their use in commercial situations. There's good research to suggest that plastic boards are actually more problematic than wood.

Finding the best wood for a board is nearly as great  a quest as finding the right knife 

Jules

[Bob in St. Louis]

Interesting. I would have thought the plastic would be best from a health standpoint (you can soak it in bleach) and good for the knife (since it's soft).
But hardwood, endgrain, and bamboo wood boards would be bad for a good knife since they're very hard, and bad healthwise as you can't soak them in bleach.

[gregcss]

How about a rubber cutting board? They made in Japan if that matters. Knives & Stones (out of Australia) stocks some. I have not seen them available anywhere else though I haven't looked too hard. http://www.knivesandstones.com/search.php?search_query=cutting+board&Search=

[jules]

Interesting. I would have thought the plastic would be best from a health standpoint (you can soak it in bleach)

Hi Bob,

Two things about plastic ... firstly, if you make a slice into it [micro-slice if you like] the bottom of the cut becomes quite closed once the knife leaves, so it's very hard to get anything in there to clean it. The second thing is that apparently wood has some antibiotic qualities and it's been found [sorry, I can't quote a source as it's been a while since I looked at it] that "germs" tend to die a horrible death on a wood surface while they can happily thrive on plastic. Well, maybe I exaggerated  the "horrible" bit. Practically speaking I hate working on plastic because it's got no feel.

I've never tried bleach, preferring to run very hot water from the tap over the board in combination with scrubbing with a scotch brite [universal?]  and soap. Professionally, it's not really possible to leave boards soaking between using them for different purposes and I'd be worried about the taste of bleach in food ... ??

I haven't tried rubber gregcss, so no comment but I imagine it would have quite a different feel to working on wood.

Yes Bob, hardwood and bamboo are definitely out and at the other end of the scale, some softer woods are too soft and the board wears away too easily. US timbers are no doubt different to Aus. wood but there are woods around that resist wear while still being soft enough to be kind to knives. My own preference is very fine grained from a very slow growing tree that's very hard to get hold of [of course  ]   

[Syrah]

There's a seemingly constant back and forth between biologists re. wood vs. plastic vs. ...

I think the issue is that plastic (with tons of little knife cuts) has plenty of little mini pools of liquid that harbor bacteria and beasties, even after it's well cleaned.

Wood can breathe.  So those little cuts can dry out, making bacteria very unhappy.

Hence the reason old butcher shops had sawdust all over the floor.

Wood is good.

I use my wood boards for everything, raw chicken, etc.  I wash them, spray them with vinegar, oil regularly.  All good.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Well, this makes me happy. I've got a room in my house that I call a "woodworking room", and I like to fashion myself as a bit of a "woodworker".
That being said, I was concerned that plastic may be a better material in a kitchen from a bacterial standpoint.

Suffice it to say, that I've made it a few decades using a wood cutting board and haven't gotten sick, nor have I killed any of my dinner guests, not the least of which is my family.
I have a strong desire to produce quality cutting boards (someday) in my shop. I'm glad I won't have to call myself a "plasticworker", nor call the room in my shop a "plasticworking room".
Just doesn't have a good ring to it, now does it? 

[jules]

From childhood, I remember the massive end grain chopping blocks that used to exist in butcher's shops before someone decided plastic was beautiful and ruined the atmosphere of butcher's shops ... aaagh! Here, we've got the madness of coded plastic boards red, green, yellow and blue, all for different foods but while I get the idea of cross contamination, the implication is that there's going to be some sort of nasties left on your board after you've cleaned it and that just says to me, you haven't cleaned it  . Separate board for garlic ... sure!!   

[S Clark]

I use nylon and hate it.  A nice end grain maple block is on my father's day list.  It's the only thing on the list. 
As far a cleaning, I'd be surprised to find out that a bit of diluted bleach affect either flavor or diner- if used sparingly and occasionally.