AudioCircle
Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => The Culinary Circle => Topic started by: alan m. kafton on 1 Feb 2008, 08:17 am
-
Two pages....most interesting.
http://www.salon.com/mwt/food/eat_drink/2008/02/01/japanese_knives/
-
And that's just scratching the surface. aa Most of my knives are Japanese, and it's hard to use most European/German blades after using a good laminated blade. Even the cheaper ones from Tojiro will completely annihilate a Wusthof or Henkels. I keep a Tojiro Guyoto in my work roll- first week I had it, I let two guys use it. Both cut themselves on it, one badly enough to have to go to the ER. :P [Note: to see the humor in that I think you have to be 1) a Chef, 2) a Sadist (basically same as #1) or 3) a knifenut.]
Japanese knives can be as bad of an addiction as audio, but I think sharpening is even worse! :o :lol: Ask the guy with 50 debas, wu-guyotos, honesukis, sujihikis & Ao-ko hongasumis just how many waterstones he has...probably the number will be more than the total of his knives! And sharpening is completely addictive, and it reminds a bit of the vinyl ritual. The stones must first be soaked; long enough to saturate them, but too long (for natural stones) and they'll revert back to mud. The fine grits usually are worked over with a Nagura stone, enough to create a slurry but not enough to create a mess. You'll start with a 250 grit is a blade is dull enough, then work your way up to absurd levels like a 30,000 grit Shapton GlassStone, not stopping until the entire bevel shines like a mirror. And those finest stones cost as much as some speaker cables! :lol: And when you get done with that, there's still stropping! :P
When I run out of stuff to sharpen, I get out forks and butter knives. :oops: It's truly a sick obsession. 8)
-
Wow Rob, you do have it bad! I enjoy Japanese steel as well, albeit on a less obsessive scale! As you say, once you've used a good laminated steel knife in the kitchen, nothing from Europe seems very adequate. I also enjoy good Japanese chisels for carving woodcut prints. The Japanese have no competitors for those tools as well IMO. One of the printers in our workshop spent a couple years in Japan studying traditional woodcut techniques and he has an amazing collection of artisan chisels and good waterstones he brought back.
-
Yeah, the Japanese have a different "techno/cultural" approach than the west. I can't claim expertise in this area, though: European woodworkers also have impressive methods for sharpening tools. The Japanese were blessed, in my estimation, by geology: look at the clay they have! As a reluctant sensei once said, "it all started 1,000 years ago with a tinker and a wet rock." We're still trying to understand that 'wet rock' today. :lol:
Okay, I'll let my true colors show: some say sharpening is "a dying art," but I assert that there are more experts alive today than at any point in human history. Sure, we don't fight with swords, but aside from practical concerns that dictate a sharp blade (eg: meatpackers, cooks, surgeons, outdoorsmen/women, military, etc) we simply have more people today. And that means more geeks. Plus, today we have scanning electron microscopes, plus other ways to examine the edge that didn't exist in the ancient past.
C'mon, AC geeks- is audio the only area where your geekiness shows? Or are some of you also into: model trains; role playing games; skiing; skydiving; coin collecting; firearms; stamp collecting; comic books; vintage furniture; romance with farm equipment (okay, just threw that in to see if you were listening and to seperate the men from the boys! :o :lol:).
-
Does that mean you don't think my tractor's sexy? :lol:
-
BTW, Marbles- when I was growing up, my Dad had an FFL. Besides stock for sale we personally had, at a minimum, about 85 personal firearms among our immediate family. aa Dad was always a bit nervous about my "mechanical apptitude"... Do you recall when I proclaimed my "geekdom"? Well, as a kid (before Al Gore gifted us with the internet...) I decided to research silencers the old fashioned way: I used the State Library, the patent office & The Shotgun News. I quickly ascertained that a silencer was essentially the same as a car muffler, with a few incidental differences that I discovered that probably wouldn't interest anyone. :wink: My designs quickly grew quite efficient. Might I also point out the some specific wear patterns on the sears of semi automatic firearms can lead to a completely unexpected full auto discharge?! :o :wink:
Heheheh...I shoulda been an engineer instead of a chef! :P But there ain't that many legit jobs for anti-social engineers! :lol:
-
Nope Nothing better than a sharp knife :drool: I have never tried water stones might have to give them a try. My ritual is a hard Arkansas to a translucent Arkansas then finish with a black Arkansas surgical stone. Do you do free hand ior do you use guides for the proper angle. To me you can feel the pull on the blade lessen when they start to come in but that might just be me being addicted to the ritual :lol:
-
Marbles, I don't know of a better place in the US to get Japanese kitchen knives from artisanal makers than Japanwoodworker.com. Even their less expensive three layer knives are razor sharp, hold a good edge, and are easy to sharpen. Just be aware that Japanese knifes are easily discolored by food acids and rust easily, so they take more care than a good european knife. a light coating of camelia oil ( which Japanwoodworker sells ) is the traditional protective agent after use.
-
A few pretty good vendors:
Cutlery And More (http://www.cutleryandmore.com/shun-knives.htm) is a good one. They don't have a lot of Japanese knives, but they do have Shun, Masahiro, Kasumi & Mac, plus Global if you like them- I initially did like them d/t styling & ergonomics but the blades aren't as good.
Chef Knives to Go (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/) is another good shop. They have most of what Cutlery & More has but add Hattori, Misono and a few others.
Japanese Chef Knife.com (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html) is an excellent source for more traditional Japanese knives. They carry a lot of brands you won't find in the US, and some I've never seen anywhere else. And the Engrish is amusing. :)
The Epicurean Edge (http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=74&cat=Japanese%2FAsian+Knives) sells lots of traditional & Western style Japanese knives. They usually have the legendary Hattori KD in stock, in case you've got $1,100 laying around that's not doin' nothin'!
Korin (http://www.korin.com/models.php?cat=56&subcat=30&df=knife&catname=Manufacturer&subcatname=Tojiro) is a great source for Japanese blades. They're both a store and they make knives, selling their own & other brands. The link I provided is to the Tojiro page; they're wonderful laminated blades that are priced even lower than most German ones. And they'll flat out kill any Wusthof or Henkels I've ever seen or used (although the Henkels Twin Cermax are a whole nuther kettle of fish- they're laminated Super Steel knives, made in Japan & branded for Henkels).
Carter Cutlery (http://www.cartercutlery.com/)- I gotta throw this link out there. Murray Carter is a very rare gaijin indeed; he was essentially adopted as a son into a Japanese knifemaking family, something virtually unheard of. This guy makes some amazing blades and is probably one of the best sharpeners on the planet. He has videos showing you his method of sharpening, not that you'll ever come close to him! :lol: Best part, for just $18,000 he'll personally instruct you in the art of knifemaking, taking you from not knowing squat to making your own laminated kitchen knife.
It's hard to give too much advice, for a couple reasons. One, while I'm a big fan there are lots of brands I've never had a chance to use, or even see. Few places in the US carry a wide variety, and most of them are on the coasts. Plus, knives are at least as subjective as you choice in speakers. First, you have to choose between Western style and traditional Japanese styles. The former takes basically Western patterns and interprets them and forging them in the Japanese fashion. These include the ones you often see on Food Network: the Santoku, the Gyuto (basically a Chef's knife), the Nakiri, and the Sujihiki (a cross between a slicing knife & a French knife). All these are double-bevel, meaning they're sharpened on both sides. Traditional knives are chisel ground, or single-bevel. These are sharpened just on one side. You may see these on Iron Chef or at a sushi place. The Western knives are usually (but not always) executed in stainless and/or some type of advanced powdered steel. Traditional knives are often made of high carbon steel that's no less advanced than the stainless. White and Blue steel are most common. NOTE: You could write a dozen thick books about the types of steel and the methods used to make Japanese knives, so consider this an extreme simplification!
As a Western cook, I prefer knives bases on Western patterns. Tools evolve alongside the cuisines they're used to cook, so it's not surprising that different culinary traditions would have different styles. I really love the santoku, a sort of East-meets-West interpretation of the French knife. The Gyuto is indispensible for me. Occasionally I'll use a Nakiri, but I don't have much use for an Usuba- they look identical, superficially, but the former is double bevel and the latter is a single. And some styles, like the Honesuki just don't work well for me at all. I occasionally find a use for a Sashimi or Deba but mostly I like the patterns I came up using.
A few that I like & recommend:
Shun- Personally I love 'em. The Classics are made with a hagane (cutting core) of V-Gold 10, a powdered metalurgical 'Super Steel". It's hardened to about 60 Rockwell C, then clad to a jigane of softer stainless Damascus. The handles are D-shaped Pakkawood, specifically made in righthand or lefthand versions. The Elite line uses an even more exotic steel called SG-2, hardened to about Rockwell 64 iirc. They do make a couple of lines of tradional styles, but the aforementioned ones are Western styles, and are my favorites. Shun was one of the first really popular Japanese knives, and Alton Brown has made them even more well known. Because of this, some hardcore Japanese knife snobs (yes, they're even worse than TheChair(less)Guy and his vinyl! :lol:) tend to hold them in lower esteem, but they're fine knives.
Hattori- Really great knives! Only the KD is truly handmade by Hattori himself, but all the knives are nice. The KF line was made in collaboration with some KnifeForums members in the US, hence the "KF" designation. The KF's aren't laminated- they're solid V-Gold 10. Eventually an upgrades line of KF's will utilize ultra premium Cowry X steel.
Ryusen/Blazen- Blazen actually makes the Hattori HD; the Hattori shop polishes and finishes them. Ryusen makes great Western style knives that hold an edge extremely well.
Tojiro- It used to be that it was hard for me to recommend a good Japanese alternative for a guy shopping for an $80 Wusthof. Then I bought my first Tojiro! It was truly a "German-knife killer"! I got a 24 cm Gyuto (about 9.4") for under $70 shipped. Compared to it my best Wusthof and Henkels were like rusted-out Kabars.
Beyond these, it's hard to really suggest anything. Misono & Mac are really nice, too, and of course if you want a handmade knife there are hundreds if not thousands of makers to choose from. Certainly a Murray Carter will always perform well, and his "entry level" knives are pretty reasonable (around $200-$300). His elite ones will run...well, let's just say "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." Ditto for handmade custom Hattori's.
Let me say in closing that I'm far from an expert on Japanese knives... Anyone interesting in Japanese knives can find some fellas @ KnifeForums.com (http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/portal/index.php?) that make me look like a total nOOb! :o :lol: You can learn a ton by hanging out over there- they're like AudioCircle for knives! :thumb:
-
:drool: Wow Rob, I was perfectly happy with my knives until you wrote all that. NIIIiiiice :thumb:
Bob
-
(http://www.metrokitchen.com/images/kyocera_logo.gif)
Awesome Knives, awesome audio too.
http://kyoceraadvancedceramics.com/
-
Wow, and I thought we had good Henkel's in our kitchen. Now I have to see what Tojiro is all about.
Bob
-
Wow, and I thought we had good Henkel's in our kitchen. Now I have to see what Tojiro is all about.
Bob
I have a 4.5" Shun Elite Mini-Prep and the rest of my knives are Henkels 4 Star and 4 Star II. I like the Shun quite a bit, but the knives I use most are my Henkels 4" paring and 6" chefs, both the 4 Star II version.
I'm think about getting a 6" Shun Elite utility or 6.5" santoku, but based on my experience with the 4.5", I'm not sure I'll like them any better than my Henkels.
-
My favorite knife by far is a Shun Classic 6" Ulitmate Utility knife. My wife thought it was kind of stupid to spend $100 on a "Sandwich knife." She didn't question it again after the first time she used it. It gets used far more than any other knife we have.
When my Henkels knives need to be replaced, we'll replace them with Shun Classics and not look back.
-
Rob,
Great stuff. My everyday knife is a small collection of Mac and a Shun Damascus. My personal prized knife is from Ryusen Blazen -- noob stuff in the eyes of KF experts -- and I use a couple of water stones to keep them in shape.
-
(http://i8.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/2f/69/9d30_1.JPG)
Saw this deal on EBay. I can't afford it right now, but thought maybe one of you might be interested.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270338604624&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DSelling (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270338604624&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DSelling)
-
Nice knives indeed. I use mostly Henkel, a couple are the Pro's, and have a few Cutco around.
I will give one of those cheap Japanese ones in time, I do like toys...
The other place my geekiness really shone, was with motorcycles. I did a ridiculous amount of research back in the mid 90's, and discovered that most parts were straight swap for Suzuki GSXR's between 1985 and 1991. I then bought, stripped, and built differing combos over the next 6 years (14 of them!). I used to be able to tell what year a motor was, from a glance at it. What fun, in younger days.
-
Since it is confession time. Audio, knives, cooking, wine, and increasingly scuba diving. Scuba diving offers a plethora of expensive toys for boys.
I have a few Henkels, Sabatier... When I used to live in Toronto my local department store decided to discontinue Global knives. 75%! I bought them ALL. So I have about 10 different Global knives. I was too stupid to realize that I was buying a right-handed sushi knife - I am left handed. Anyone interested in a Global sushi knife for a good price?
I am thinking of trying out a good quality Japanese chefs knife. Something in the $100 to $200 range. Which one(s) should I try?
-
Hey!
Nice article :D
I've been thinking of getting one lately. I've been looking at Shun "Classic" chef's/Gyuto since these are more affordable than others. But still not sure if I should go for 8" or 10" one. Currently I'm using 8" cheappy chef's knife. :D
Sure! If I got the money I will definitely looking for a hand-made one, but they are pretty expensive and I don't know if I will be brave enough to use it almost daily. :icon_lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
:D :lol:
Just noticed this forum, I have been doing a lot of writing on the audio part, but I am an avid knife fan, I have Global, Shun, Kyocera, MAc, Caphalon Katana, and a Deba Hocho knife from the www.JapanWoodworker.com, which is my absolute favorite for about $30 bucks, it cuts better than all of my others and the sharpness is super!! I love the Mac sharpness also.
:thumb: Bill
-
What knife do you mention for $30? The only Deba Hocho knives start at 80 plus.
Thanks.
-
The Tosagata knives start under $40 and used to be under $30. They aren't pretty, but they are hand-made and excellent steel-- harder than Global and any European knife. I think they are a 63 hardness. I don't use a steel on mine as it shatters the fine edge- stone and strop.
-
My Gyuto is a 240mm Hiromoto HC. It's a shame they don't seem to be available anymore. It is an excellent $50 knife. It's not necessarily the lamination that makes a great Japanese knife. Regular old carbon steel at the correct temper and profile is wonderful in every area but aesthetics (I actually like the patina). My wife uses a basic Tojiro Santoku. Also a great knife. I bought them both from Japanesechefsknife.com. They have a great selection and excellent prices. $7 got them across the Pacific in less than a week.
pj
-
My Gyuto is a 240mm Hiromoto HC. It's a shame they don't seem to be available anymore.
They turn up on eBay pretty regularly. I think there are a couple now.
-
Since it is confession time. Audio, knives, cooking, wine, and increasingly scuba diving. Scuba diving offers a plethora of expensive toys for boys.
I have a few Henkels, Sabatier... When I used to live in Toronto my local department store decided to discontinue Global knives. 75%! I bought them ALL. So I have about 10 different Global knives. I was too stupid to realize that I was buying a right-handed sushi knife - I am left handed. Anyone interested in a Global sushi knife for a good price?
I am thinking of trying out a good quality Japanese chefs knife. Something in the $100 to $200 range. Which one(s) should I try?
I've bought a few more Shun knives. I couldn't be happier. They have a chef's knife and santoku on the bottom end of your price range. If you have a Bed Bath and Beyond near you and get those 20% off coupons in the mail, they'll accept it. Every store I've seen sells them for the same price, but the 20% coupon makes it sweeter.
-
What knife do you mention for $30? The only Deba Hocho knives start at 80 plus.
Thanks.
Here is the page its a from Tosagata, my wife cuts pineapple watermelon and coconuts with it and it remains my sharpest knife!
Not pretty or refined but a hell of a bargain for $35!!!
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13198
>>
-
Syrah,
I just realized - Shun knives are are either right handed or left handed. If you're contemplating one, make sure you get the correct one.
-
A delayed comment on steels ...
I find steels useful and practical and if you're using a knife for a period of time on something like slicing meat [or pretty much anything :)], there's a need to touch the edge up regularly ... as in every few minutes. Most [maybe all] commercial steels come with a very rough surface which can take you back a few steps from what you achieve with a fine stone. Steels should be smoothed off with wet and dry paper of 120 or finer grade. A good steel should look close to dead smooth aside from the fine grooves made by the wet and dry [or other similar]. No doubt this doesn't approach Rob's 30,000 grit or the smoothness produced by a strop but it's streets ahead of a standard finish steel.
Jules
-
Can I use this knife for general use?
I mainly chop veggies, some meat slicing.
I'd like a nice slicing/chopping knife I can use for years.
Excuse my ignorance, I'm a complete knife newbie.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=11.011.06&dept_id=13169
-
Thanks Stu Pitt. Unfortunately I just bought one. But I don't see any difference on the blade like there is with the one-sided sushi knife. Is the difference in that ridge in the handle? My ridge is in the right side of the handle, but that feels fine in my left hand. Quite a knife!
-
(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080215/Gangsters/Kill-Bill-Lucy-Liu_l.jpg)
The Bride: [Japanese] I need Japanese steel.
Hattori Hanzo: [Japanese] Why do you need Japanese steel?
The Bride: [Japanese] I have vermin to kill.
Hattori Hanzo: [English] You must have big rats if you need Hattori Hanzo's steel
:D
Now you guys got me. I have to look for my one Japanese knife that my sister bought for me
over in Japan. I was only using it for vegetables, and misplaced it. All of you are right, it is wicked
sharp!
-
Thanks Stu Pitt. Unfortunately I just bought one. But I don't see any difference on the blade like there is with the one-sided sushi knife. Is the difference in that ridge in the handle? My ridge is in the right side of the handle, but that feels fine in my left hand. Quite a knife!
The only difference is the handle. I really like mine and plan on buying a few more. Next for me will be a 5 1/2" Santoku.
-
Several months ago I lent my left-handed GF a right-handed Shun. She thought the handle worked just fine. As has been noted the Shun Classics are beveled 50/50, only the handle is different. Still the left hand versions are generally the same price so just order the one you prefer.
BTW, I have several Shuns and find them to be good knives.
-
I have a set of Henckles but most often reach for one of 3 Kyrocera ceramic knives. I bought a set of 3 Eagle ceramic knives to use when I sent the Kyrocera back to have them sharpened once a year but the Eagle knives will barely slice a tomato without bruising it, they are worthless. I have wanted a steel Santoku for a while now just couldn't decide on a brand till now.
-
I have a Shun Blade. It was designed by Ken Onion. It's the 8" Chef's knife. I love this blade. Scared the hell out of me the first time I used it. I have never had anything that sharp before.
I was reading a comment about stones and steels. I thought steels only re-arranged the metal on a blade around. It's good to give it an edge. But after some time you need to use a stone to take off that metal build up.
-
This has been confusing me lately too. I know traditionally that steels hone and stones sharper (i.e. remove metal). But Global is pretty firm against any steel not made of diamond or ceramic. I'm not sure why. Also, it seems that most steels are rough and sharper too. I know a lot of chefs use steels that are smooth - so strictly for honing. Should I be honing my Globals and my Shun? If so with what and how often?
-
I'm no expert but my understanding is that typical steels put a serated burr on the knife. After several hones, the knife can no longer get a sufficient burr and needs to be sharpened on a stone. Then it can be honed many more times before needing stone sharpening again. I imagine a ceramic/diamond 'steel' will act more like a sharpening stone on the knife and less like a traditional ribbed steel (i.e. it sharpens instead of merely burring). That could be the reason for Global's recommendation.
How wrong am I on this guys?
-
In my experience you're correct. About 20 years ago I purchased a Zwilling 4star 8' chefs knife and a diamond steel. It now has that unmistakable heel at the hand end of the blade indicating that considerable material has been sharpened away. If I had used a traditional steel and a stone only when it didn't hold an edge I suspect that there'd be more knife left after 20 years.
-
Just for that reason, that I don't want to loose to much blade over time. I use a fine and ceramic stone. Part of a Spyder Knife sharpening kit I got. The kit it's self is hard getting used too. But in any case I will use my steel on my Shun blade a couple times then use the kit to sherpen it. It might be over kill, but it keeps me from having to take away so much metal. By the way, the steel I use is a J.A. Henckels Fine steel.
-
...post deleted...
-
pas,
unmistakable heel at the hand end of the blade indicating that considerable material has been sharpened away.
A bit late for a reply I know but this inevitably does happen. Even if it's not pronounced it's a problem with any knife that's supposed to have a convex curved edge because one of the prime uses of this type of blade [there are exceptions] requires that the blade should be able to make contact with the board you're cutting on when you're using a classic cutting action. Even a slight, almost invisible concavity or just flatness leaves a gap, or makes poor contact between the board and the knife.
You can recover this knife by carefully [don't overheat] removing metal from the heel end of the blade until such time as you can form a smooth curve over the length of the blade. The knife will have a bit less depth but work as it should [unless your knuckles hit the board]. To do this, you need an appropriate grinder though you can do it with an ordinary one if you take it in very short burts and allow for cooling.
Sorry kenreau ... for those who only read the last post in a thread, please look above :D
Jules
-
i saw this thread and i just had to post! i love knives and sharpening knives!
I had one Shun. but i didn't realize it was a right handed one till. it felt awkward to cut with till actually looked at it and saw how it was offset. i gave it to my dad and he loves it. I first bought globals which were great. but my wife doesnt give a crap abou tmy knives so she ended up beating the crap out of the edges. i now have the high end Mac knives. a 8" chef, a santoko, and a slicer. these are nice and sharp from the factory. i keep these in a knife roll away from everyone. i am wanting to get that glass hone but i dont remember where it is from or who makes it.
-
I read this thread some time ago but have just gotten around to posting. I am in need of my first knife set as well as a sharpening stone set I may give the intro Shuns a try and if I like them move up the line eventually. What would be a nice starter sharpening set? I would search the net but I still wouldnt know exactly what I am looking for.
Thanks
-
This thread has been dead for a bit now, but I am now in the market for a smallish (5"-6") blade for my wife. probably a Santoku style with a non-wood handle and a blade material that is easy to maintain (like a stainless).
I've been looking at the Tojiro, which I like the look of and the handle looks comfy. But I've also been intrigued by the Kyocera ceramic blades. Any info on these? They look pretty cool but I'm wondering how you sharpen them when they finally need it? Can you use a basic whetstone/oilstone (Carborundum) or do you need to take them someplace special?
This interest reemerged because my wife had a Cutco rep over last night kiving her the "shpiel". From what I saw these Cutco's looked like an overpriced piecve of crap compared to our Henkels. So I convinced her to look at the Japanese knives instead. The Tojiro is about 1/2 the price of a comperable Cutco and, from what I've read on this thread, looks like a better knife overall.
Thanks,
Bob
-
Hey Bob,
If you get a chance to be in the city anytime this month, do check out Korin (click below)--
(http://korin.com/site/images/main_images/june_2009-2.jpg) (http://korin.com/site/home.html)
They do have Tojiros and you can also pick up a double sided King or Mizuyama waterstone :D
Best,
Tito
-
Well I walked over to Korin on my lunch hour today (I work downtown NYC) and picked up a knife. Very nice store with some really great looking knives of all styles. There was even a Japanese craftsman in a glass booth shaprning and honing knives. That reminded me of those upscale tobacco shops where someone is rolling cigars. :lol:
Anyway, I went in looking for a Tojiro - Santoku. The salesman talked me into a Togiharu Inox - Santoku for about $5 more. He said it was a better class of steel and the overall craftsmanship of this manufacturer is one class up from the Tojiro.
So the wife should be happy tonight. I just hope she doesn't find occasion to use it on me - it's damn sharp!
Thanks for the recommendations,
Bob
-
Hey!
I took a fellow NYAR Raver to Korin store because he's looking for sharpening stone. They are having a knives sale right now so while I was there I couldn't myself and picked this up for a pretty good price...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4794413723_2629fe67d9_o.jpg)
A Misono 240mm/9.4in Swedish high carbon steel Gyutou :D
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4794413955_24b08e99fa_o.jpg)
Japanese made. Hand forged from high carbon Swedish steel. With beautiful dragon engraving on the blade. High carbon knives can be sharpen to a very sharp edge and can hold it sharpness well but prone to rust. As you can see on on the blade here and that was from it short first use on this one. It will eventually develop a patina.... I've seen some old carbon knives with patina and that is OK with me. But if not maintained it will rust.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4795047208_4e45908545_o.jpg)
I also bought a "Saya" a wooden knife sleeve and a bottle of knives oil (camellia oil) to coat it keep it from rusting.
I've been using a Korin 210mm/8.2in Western style molybdenum V.G. steel that was giving to me for a while....
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1330/4729091374_d9c4c3242b_b.jpg)
And with larger volume kitchen prep sometime I think a bit bigger knife would be nice. So, I've been looking around for a new knife. At first I was going to go with something like Shun but this Misono caught my eye. At first it was the dragon engraving that got my attention. But the more I read and learn about how high carbon knives are the more I like it. A classic material that can be very sharp. But of course there is the downside, it will stain and if not taking care of it will rust.
Well, this is my first Misono and high carbon knife. So far it is very nice, light and extremely sharp like a razor!
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Handling and using a high end Japanese kitchen knife is an experience in itself. Of course, after having used to handling it, the newness or rush of cutting fades to a background...until you find yourself in someone else's kitchen and use their $20 special.... Trying to make cuts with a $20 steel blade, usually made in China tearing through food, stretching the food to be made, ripping, ragging through it is something extremely unpleasant after having experienced the feel of a Japanese blade.
I can clearly see where people might begin to collect knives that they might NEVER, EVER use, especially due to the price or the artistry of it..... Korin has these knives that to me, seem more like sedated mini Samurai swords rather than cooking/prepping instruments.
If you have NEVER experienced one of these decent knives, you owe it to yourself try one. Amazing.
After that outing with Buddy to get my set of sharpening stones and helping him decide on the "dragon" knife, I myself am intrigued with the possibility of using a real molybdenum steel knife even though it is more demanding maintenance wise.
Paul
-
Korin does their 15% off deal at least twice per yer and I usually try to pick up something each time they do. But it's getting to where I don't really want most of the brands they carry; I'd love a Nenox but it's a bit too rich for my blood, and I'm pretty set on Tojiros. Still it's a great store. That Misono is a nice peice, and I dig that Korin will sell a saya for nearly any knife they stock.
I'll have to post some pics of a few I haven't posted here yet. 8)
-
Handling and using a high end Japanese kitchen knife is an experience in itself. Of course, after having used to handling it, the newness or rush of cutting fades to a background...until you find yourself in someone else's kitchen and use their $20 special.... Trying to make cuts with a $20 steel blade, usually made in China tearing through food, stretching the food to be made, ripping, ragging through it is something extremely unpleasant after having experienced the feel of a Japanese blade.
I can clearly see where people might begin to collect knives that they might NEVER, EVER use, especially due to the price or the artistry of it..... Korin has these knives that to me, seem more like sedated mini Samurai swords rather than cooking/prepping instruments.
If you have NEVER experienced one of these decent knives, you owe it to yourself try one. Amazing.
After that outing with Buddy to get my set of sharpening stones and helping him decide on the "dragon" knife, I myself am intrigued with the possibility of using a real molybdenum steel knife even though it is more demanding maintenance wise.
Paul
Hey!
Yup, I know what you mean. Once you used a good knife it is hard to go back to cheap one. Especially if you have to use it almost everyday. With good knife it is much easier to do thing with less effort.... just let the knife do the work. With good sharp knife you don't hack through or saw through things.
Anyway, it had been a week with my Misono dragon knife and I have to say that I really like it and enjoy using it. It just slice through things smoothly effortlessly. No need to push hard and this help a lot when you have do a big prep job. It is a bit bigger than my old one 210mm/8.2" vs 240mm/9.4" really help too. But it can be awkward in small space. So, in smaller space I still sometime reach for the old 210mm. But I think I'm going to keep the old to be use at home now.
As for sharpness. I did notice that it had lost the "new out of the box" sharpness to it. But it is still very very sharp. I still don't know how it will be after I sharpen it with stone.
The knife itself now developing more patina to it. But it is interesting. The downside is that I have to wash and wipe is off after each use unlike the old molybdenum knife that I can just wash and forget.
Anyway, overall I think it is worth every penny I spent. Sharp, good handling, light ( I know some like heavy knives) and beautiful :D
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
My Shun collection.
Actual folded steel.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3360/3234611833_4cde8abf40_b.jpg)
They are super thin and so wonderful to use. Reminds me I need to sharpen them.
-
I love my Shun's as well. Even though I cut left-handed, I enjoy the feel of the round/offset handle and the silky feel of the wood itself.
I have a 3.5-inch parer, a 3.5-inch specialty/utility, a 6 inch Santoku (now my primary slicing knife) and recently purchased the 6-inch chef, which for my hand has a wonderful balance. I plan to use this for all my dicing and chiffonade work. I also purchased a wonderful 9-inch slicing knife from an Audio Circle member last year, for special occasions like Thanksgiving, etc.
I looked at the more premium Shun's, but for my level the Classic's are just fine.
-
I should also mention that all my Shun's were purchased via Williams-Sonoma special promotions at 40% to 50% off. Sweetened the deal, without a doubt.
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=32977)
I bought this in Japan last year for around 20,000 yen. I chipped it last year on very hung over morning cracking coconuts with it....... (I don't know why i did it. stupid)
Everybody that has used it love this knife it just slices through anything...... except coconuts.
-
The Shuns aren't actually folded. The pattern is etched into the blade. The lit says 'Demascus-like pattern'. They're great knives none-the-less. I've got a bunch myself.
-
I think I told my mom to by a Shun, as it was the only high end knife available besides some generic Henckles at a Crate and Barrel in Atlanta. For sure it cuts well...but what I did not know was that the pattern of folded steel, damascus, as just "imprinted"? Which makes me wonder whether their line and what follows was made either in the same factory/ with the same process....
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90131068
The merit of a really well made Japanese chef knife for me is the balance of the overall knife, as well as the quality of the blade materials. Their blades are not thicker than they ought to be, and they have a sharpness that must be experienced to really know that there are knives like them in existence.
My beauty is this one here....
http://korin.com/HOT-GY?sc=7&category=120853
-
True Demascus steels require far more maintenance than Shun thought the mainstream user would accept since they rust more easily. So they chose a stainless steel and etched the pattern to look more Japanese. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not knocking them. I don't have the time or patience to properly care for a great folded Japanese knife. So the Shuns are perfect for me!
-
The Shuns aren't actually folded. The pattern is etched into the blade. The lit says 'Demascus-like pattern'. They're great knives none-the-less. I've got a bunch myself.
Hey!
Well, I think you are partly right. I checked out Shun's website and look like it is true that Shuns are not a "true" damascus knives....
http://www.kershawknives.com/knifetech.php?feature_id=26&brand=shun (http://www.kershawknives.com/knifetech.php?feature_id=26&brand=shun)
Instead, , look like they using "clad construction" of which use 16-layers of high carbon stainless steel damacus to clad the VG10 steel inner core.
So, I guess is it really a VG10 steel knives cladded with thin damascus stainless steel. Still a very good knives. I did considered it until I fell for the classic high carbon steel Misono.
But I have to admit that I still do have a soft spot for damascus steel knives and might get one someday.
Hmmm... But I wonder how many "true damascus" chef's knives are out there? :scratch:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Hmmm... But I wonder how many "true damascus" chef's knives are out there? :scratch:
Check out this site:
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13160&s=JapanWoodworker
-
Check out this site:
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13160&s=JapanWoodworker
just saw this thread. Bob Kramer is the man for Damascus kitchen knives. he's also a great guy who loves audio (he has a pair of Daedalus & a Modwright KWA150) he's even been to a couple of RMAF with me. I have two of his knives on my sailboat (that's home) and they do very well as far as rust... and as for sharp, after fiver years of daily use they still beat a razor and I haven't touched them to a steel yet!
check him out!
http://www.kramerknives.com/
lou
-
Lou, those Kramer knives look fantasic but I believe that each one of his signature creations will be as expensive as a pair of good speakers(no hint intended) and you can tell this when even Shun has used his knives as exemplars to
mass produce their knives that sell for $150,00.00!
-
Damascus and folded japanese steel are often confused but are very different. The Shuns are traditionally folded blades. No kind of etching would produce the pattern you see in the metal, almost like a wood grain. Now the edge of the blade may be etched in order to produce the Hamon look which is a result obtained normally by differentially clay treated steel, but often an imitation look is achieved using chemicals which in the case of a knife is perfectly fine. I do have an actual Katana with both folded steel and differentially hardened blade which is just breath taking. Maybe I'll post a pic or two later on...
-
Yes, there are a lot of terms being thrown around that are often misunderstood. The terms Damascus is generally used to refer to two dissimilar products. The first is a type of cladding, particularly used on Japanese knives. The stuff Shun uses is produced by Takefu Special Steel Co.,Ltd. based in Echizen City, Fukui Prefecture. It's a blend of relatively soft steel that's roller laminated to VG-10 (or Super-Gold II for the higher end knives) under tremendous pressure. This stock is supplied to many manufacturers. IIRC, all VG-10 comes from Takefu, but I can't swear to that. Even some very expensive knives like the Hattori KD are made from "faux Damascus"- although perhaps a more correct term would be suminagashi (roughly "ink" or sometimes "marble"). Hattori makes the KD by drilling and hammering, creating a swirling suminagashi pattern. Etching is the process of using a solution of acid to make the pattern "pop." It's just for looks, and after etching the blade will actually be a bit rough feeling and cut less smoothly for awhile.
"True" Damascus as we understand it today refers to Wootz steel. It's really a pretty modern material, dating back only to the 1980's. There are others who've made laminated materials and called them "Damascus" but the fact is no one has conclusively demonstrated that they've reproduced the ancient recipe, although there have been many claims. Today a pretty "authentic" Wootz style product is being made by Chad Nichols, Mike Sakmar, Bob Kramer, & Devin Thomas. Devin actually has supplied Kramer with some stock; he's a genius at the stuff. Of the top of my head I can't think of any kitchen knife that you could call true damascus that isn't made by either Bob or Devin. But I might be overlooking somebody.
"Real" Damascus is very expensive to make, and has some advantages and disadvantages re standard forms of steel. As nice as Bob's stuff is, his pricing is $300 per inch at the moment IIRC, and the wait is about 3 years. Devin's work is also stunning and a "bargain" at just over $100 per inch.
So, no- a mass market Shun, Hattori, Tojiro, Hiromoto, Masamoto, Kanetsune or Ryu-Sen is not true Damascus but that's really irrelevent. They all are thin, light and cut very well. The Shun Kramers are made the same basic way the other Shuns are but they use Bob's unique shape (based on an old sailboat) and are very good mass market knives nonetheless.
-
Thanks Robert for the very informative post, dispelling all wrong notions about what IS and IT IS NOT about Damascus type of knives.
-
Rob where do you knife forum sir? You sure do have alot of specific knowledge :thumb:.
Never mind I found you at the forum I use.
Thanks
Jared
-
just saw this thread. Bob Kramer is the man for Damascus kitchen knives. he's also a great guy who loves audio (he has a pair of Daedalus & a Modwright KWA150) he's even been to a couple of RMAF with me. I have two of his knives on my sailboat (that's home) and they do very well as far as rust... and as for sharp, after fiver years of daily use they still beat a razor and I haven't touched them to a steel yet!
check him out!
http://www.kramerknives.com/
lou
I remember watching this on TV..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OCoS81G2CY
-
Yeah, I haunt a few different forums. :wink: You pick up stuff just working in restaurants for a couple decades, too. :eyebrows:
-
Hey!
Rob, very informative indeed. :D
I remember watching this on TV..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OCoS81G2CY
Pretty amazing and beautiful damascus stuffs from this guy and made here in the USA! :o
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Hey!
Well, finally it's happened.....
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4819693239_5965220d3f_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4820314164_a264260ba0_o.jpg)
It was a bit busy in the kitchen today and I think I didn't give a completely wipe dry before I stick it back in the saya. What surprised me is that this happened over the period of about 7 hours. :o
Hmm... the downside of using high carbon knife. I knew this will come. But the good news.... well it is still sharp as hell. And seems to retain sharpness better than my VG10 stainless steel knife.
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
That'll come right off. You might wanna force a patina on the edge- it will prevent it from rusting in the future. There's lots of ways to do that; vinegar, mustard, apples or onions, etc etc.
-
Hey!
Well, finally it's happened.....
Take care
Buddy :thumb:
Call is Buddy Damascus like finish :icon_twisted:
But honestly, that is the pain with that sort of knife material. Do not fret, even my own knife once had a rust spot when I exposed it for a long period to water....even though it is claimed to be "Stain resistant"...which obviously does not mean "Stain proof."
-
Call is Buddy Damascus like finish :icon_twisted:
But honestly, that is the pain with that sort of knife material. Do not fret, even my own knife once had a rust spot when I exposed it for a long period to water....even though it is claimed to be "Stain resistant"...which obviously does not mean "Stain proof."
Hey!
Paul, its in it nature with this type of knives. And I know it will happen sooner or later. Man! But this happened in about 7 hours from the time I put it back in the saya after some prep works and I took it out later when I got home to oil it. :o
I've seen old carbon knives and the chef I work with right now like it and swear by it. All his knives are old carbon steel. He told me they are French made I think. And they are all stained but sharp as hell!
Well, it sure got a character to it. :D
That'll come right off. You might wanna force a patina on the edge- it will prevent it from rusting in the future. There's lots of ways to do that; vinegar, mustard, apples or onions, etc etc.
Come right off? I know that it can be remove using rust eraser. Is that what you mean?
Thanks for the tip I might try it. Well, I do chop onion on regular basis so I'm sure that will do :icon_lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Rust eraser or just polish it. Being careful of the edge, of course.
-
Hey!
Just want to pass this along. Korin is having a knife accessories sale...
http://korin.com/site/home.html (http://korin.com/site/home.html)
But the sale end Nov. 30. A bit of a short notice but here is a good chance to pick up some good stones and etc.
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Nice! Now would be a good time to pick up a saya or some stones, if they have what you're looking for. Korin is good to deal with. :thumb:
-
I like my Tojiro's....
270MM Chef Knife
90mm Paring
170mm Honesuke
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/taoggniklat/Koopdaddys%20BBQ/c93a6b16.jpg)
-
I have 3 Tojiros- a 240mm Gyuto, a 240mm Western Deba & a Nakiri.
-
Nice! Now would be a good time to pick up a saya or some stones, if they have what you're looking for. Korin is good to deal with. :thumb:
Hey!
I've just got email from Korin. Now knives are on sale too!
http://korin.com/site/home.html (http://korin.com/site/home.html)
I think the sale still end Nov. 30.
Hmmm.... maybe I should pick up another Misono... tempting. :icon_lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Hey!
I've just got email from Korin. Now knives are on sale too!
http://korin.com/site/home.html (http://korin.com/site/home.html)
I think the sale still end Nov. 30.
Hmmm.... maybe I should pick up another Misono... tempting. :icon_lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
hahaha, is it passion or obsession? Men with all the electronics with thousands of volts passing through it or interest in intricate mechanism or with sharp, deadly objects... :thumb:
-
"True" Damascus as we understand it today refers to Wootz steel. It's really a pretty modern material, dating back only to the 1980's.
"Damascus steel" and "wootz" are the same thing and they date back more than 2000 years. "Damascus steel" was simply what the Westerners called pattern-welded steel.
"Real" Damascus is very expensive to make, and has some advantages and disadvantages re standard forms of steel. As nice as Bob's stuff is, his pricing is $300 per inch at the moment IIRC, and the wait is about 3 years. Devin's work is also stunning and a "bargain" at just over $100 per inch.
Pattern-welded steel can be _very_ time-consuming to make if done manually by a bladesmith. So, it is thus going to be more expensive than a plain forged blade from the same smith.
There are also pattern-welded steels that are more mass-produced, and they can work out quite well.
So, no- a mass market Shun, Hattori, Tojiro, Hiromoto, Masamoto, Kanetsune or Ryu-Sen is not true Damascus but that's really irrelevent. They all are thin, light and cut very well. The Shun Kramers are made the same basic way the other Shuns are but they use Bob's unique shape (based on an old sailboat) and are very good mass market knives nonetheless.
Other than looks, pattern-welded steel is of dubious utility for modern blades. Like other steels, it can be good or bad, suitable or unsuitable. However, it's almost always more expensive, and unless you're buying a blade for show is probably not cost-effective.
A laminated blade, on the other hand, can work out very well. It lets the edge be made out of very hard steel that would be too brittle or too hard to work with to make an entire blade out of. I have a couple of knives made of Sandvik laminated steel that work extremely well.
Some very skilled bladesmiths are able to temper the edge of a blade differently than the spine. You can often see a change in the steel at the point where the temper changes. This also allows for things like a hard edge with a softer spine for flexibility.
Here's a pattern-welded blade with a differentiated temper.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Katana_-_showing_alternating_layers.jpg)
When I was younger I was very into cutlery and read everything I could find on it, plus I went to shows and talked to various smiths and knifemakers. My favorite pattern-welded steels always came from Daryl Meier.
-
Wow! This is the last place I expected to see a knife thread!
I am into woodworking and audio, and have been wanting to upgrade my kitchen arsenal for quite a while. Anyone have recommendations for a good blade/s for chopping/dicing veggies and cutting fruits. I will be using a end grain wooden cutting board and have a complete setup for every possible sharpening situation already (from my woodworking shop).
I need something that will not rust easily, as the wife is not so careful with stuff!
-
Wow! This is the last place I expected to see a knife thread!
I am into woodworking and audio, and have been wanting to upgrade my kitchen arsenal for quite a while. Anyone have recommendations for a good blade/s for chopping/dicing veggies and cutting fruits. I will be using a end grain wooden cutting board and have a complete setup for every possible sharpening situation already (from my woodworking shop).
I need something that will not rust easily, as the wife is not so careful with stuff!
For handmade knives, I like Warther's. They're very nice quality and are made in the US out of US materials by US workers paid a good wage. I have several of their knives and besides working well, they have character. :)
http://www.warthercutlery.com
-
"Damascus steel" and "wootz" are the same thing and they date back more than 2000 years. "Damascus steel" was simply what the Westerners called pattern-welded steel.
Well, historically that's not true. Damascus dates back quite a ways but there are no records of how it was made. Wootz steel is a reconstruction that obtains results that are very similar to ancient Damascus, but no one living today really knows for sure it's made the same.
-
Well, historically that's not true. Damascus dates back quite a ways but there are no records of how it was made. Wootz steel is a reconstruction that obtains results that are very similar to ancient Damascus, but no one living today really knows for sure it's made the same.
Check your sources. Wootz dates back to at least 300 BCE. Damascus steel was simply the name given to the finished product by Westerners, usually relating to swords.
http://damascus.free.fr/f_damas/f_quest/f_wsteel/indiaw.htm
They were legendary not because of the forge-welding or layering or anything like that, but because they were made of good steel - far better than anything Westerners could make at the time.
-
I've consulted many sources, including a couple of the country's best custom knife makers and a friend with a degree in materials science. Here we'll have to agree to disagree. :duh: :lol:
-
hahaha, is it passion or obsession? Men with all the electronics with thousands of volts passing through it or interest in intricate mechanism or with sharp, deadly objects... :thumb:
Hey!
Passion or obsession? Maybe? But my excuse is that I'm using knives for a living :wink:
Sure I can work and get away with $12 knife. But a good well balances, comfy and sharp of course really make working easier and less strain on my hand. Especially after couple of hours.
BTW... it had been a little over 4 months now with my Misono and I still love it. It made things easier for me everything from big bulk prep works to fine cut works. It stay sharp pretty long and it easy to sharpen. One of the sous chef at my work use Shun and she asked me to sharpen it for her, I did but I can't seem to get to be as sharp as my carbon steel Misono. Well, let's just say that I am now hooked on carbon steel knives now :D
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
I have seen this fellow at several custom knife shows. His stuff is AMAZING & his sharping demos scary! He is Murray Carter, he is Canadian and moved to Japan to study under The Yoshimoto clan smiths. He has since graduated and moved to Oregon, USA. He is a 17th Generation Yoshimoto Bladesmith and Certified Master Bladesmith. I just ordered some of his stuff during a sale he had for newsletter subscribers. Here is a link to his site.
http://www.cartercutlery.com/
-
Not only is Carter a great knifemaker,he's an amazing sharpener! He won our "Sharpening Olympics" over at KF.
-
Okay, here's my newest one! I just got a new CarboNext 300mm suji from JCK- EMS dropped it off a couple days ago. I haven't had time to take a pic, so I'll post one from JCK:
(http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HONKO-6.jpg)
300mm Kagayaki CN Sujihiki
The buzz on the interwebz is that the CarboNext is a actually an Ichimonji TKC branded for JCK. This wouldn't be at all unusual; the world of J-knives is an incestuous and convoluted one. For instance, Hattori's HD line is actually manufactured by Ryusen with Hattori San doing the final inspection and hand finishing. An Akifusa can also be purchased as an Ikeda. There are many other examples but you get the picture. A little bird tells me this rumor comes from a source who would know. The kicker is that the only US distributor of the Ichimonji/Kikuichi TKC just lowered his prices by 10-15%...that makes me think we're talking apples and apples here. That made it worth a try.
For those of you who haven't used one the TKC is a remarkable knife. The fit and finish is great and the early Ichimonji ones like mine truly can be considered "lasers." The steel takes a great edge as it's some type of carbon tool steel. It's not stainless but it doesn't stain easily. It will take a patina. Edge retention is superb; time will tell, but it may come close to the Akifusa in that regard. All in all my 240mm TCK is my favorite gyuto.
As I unboxed the 300mm Kagayaki CarboNext it really does look like a TKC. Same handle, same lines, same look. Again, time will tell but it's a nice lookin' piece, especially for $161 delivered. OotB it's not sharp at all. It has a few inches out of twelve that are sharp but overall it's pretty dull- probably the dullest true J-knife I've ever bought. Let me hasten to add that it bothers me not all. Many knives come basically unsharpened. Just check out an Aritsuga sometime. Word from other recent purchasers reinforces this, so if you buy one plan on "opening" it when you get it. I spent two hours on mine tonite, and it wasn't fun. It's no axe but I did feel it needed to be thinned behind the edge. I started with a 120 grit Shapton GlassStone which is a very aggressive stone, but it still took awhile. And I scratched up the left side a bit. Note to self- it doesn't take much of a slip with a 120 grit stone. Oh, well. I didn't bother to buff it out since it's a working knife but I might later on. At any rate, it's not that it's hard to cut the steel, I just wanted to thin it up the edge about 5 mm. That seemed to fix it to my satisfaction. I moved to a 500 grit GlassStone, then polished out the relief bevel on a 2k Naniwa Green Brick. After a rinse in the sink and a trip to a ceramic hone & a balsa strop I hit the stones. I went thru my Choceras- 1k, 2k and 5k. I then hit it with my 8k Naniwa "Snow White" before finishing on the 10k Chocera.
At this point it would fall thru a Wal-Mart bag so easily that, no exaggeration, you couldn't tell it was going thru anything unless you were looking. To finish up I stropped on two different planks of balsa wood, one doused liberally with Hand American 0.5 micron Chromium Oxide paste and the other impregnated with 0.125 micron Cubic Boron Nitrate. Having reached the point where the shadow of the blade would scare hair off my arm, I opted to stop.
I used it all night at work and it pretty much falls thru whatever I want to cut. So far I love it and it's drawing "oohs" and "aahs" fro all who behold it. :thumb: I'm anxious to see if edge retention is equal to the Ichimonji TKC.
-
Rob,
Let us know how you like the new knife, I have been looking at getting one of those for a couple months ago. I am just trying to save up for stones instead it is difficult, when knives are so much cooler than stones.
Thanks
Jared
-
Not only is Carter a great knifemaker,he's an amazing sharpener! He won our "Sharpening Olympics" over at KF.
Hey!
There is a "sharpening Olympics?" :o Did not know that.
Rob, that is one good looking new knife there. :D Hmmm... dull out of the box? Strange, why is that?
I have been checking the JCK also. There are some nice stuff there on their site. Wait we are talking about the same site right? This .... http://japanesechefsknife.com/ (http://japanesechefsknife.com/)
I've been thinking of getting a nice slicer soon. Any you would recommend? Not expensive though :icon_lol:
Anyway, talking about new knives. I went to Korin on Mon and couldn't help myself and got another Misono 24cm carbon steel again. Yes, the same one I have now. Why? Well, I do like it a lot and everyone at my work like it too.... hope no one steal it :icon_lol: I think I have the sharpest knife at my work right now. The reason I got another one is that I will likely buy it again in the future. So, I might as well buy it right now since these kind of thing will go up in price for sure. I also got Mizuyama #1000 and #6000 stones because they were on sale also. These are great take me less time and I get very smooth edge on these stones. :D
Anyway, Korin still have sale for knives until Dec. 31th. Well, look like I just got myself an Xmas present for myself this year :lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Japanese knives are often sold semi-sharpened. They expect the end user to apply they type of edge they prefer. Of course in America we expect the knife to be fully sharpened. In fact, most people will never see a knife any sharper than it was when they took it out of the box. :duh: I don't really mind if it ships dull so long as it sharpens readily, and the CarboNext certainly does! I used it all night at work and was really impressed with the knife. Sharpening it has reinforced my opinion that it's really a TKC.
Right now I guess that's what I'd recommend. The CarboNext is a great knife and it's one of the cheaper good knives JCK sells. Of course, if you can live with a 240mm (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpslkn24.html)/270mm (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpslkn27.html) the Tojiros at CKtG are great deals and shipping is free. And depending on what you call "not too expensive" the Kikuichi TKC (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tkcsujihiki.html) is a superior knife as well.
-
I've been thinking of getting a nice slicer soon. Any you would recommend? Not expensive though :icon_lol:
Anyway, talking about new knives. I went to Korin on Mon and couldn't help myself and got another Misono 24cm carbon steel again.
Uh-oh, Buddy, looks like you caught the bug :P
Nice book on the subject--
(http://freeculinaryschool.com/japanesekitchenknives.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Kitchen-Knives-Essential-Techniques/dp/4770030762)
-
Uh-oh, Buddy, looks like you caught the bug :P
.....
Hey!
Tito, long time no see :D Anyway, no I don't think I have the bug :lol: BTW... I'm working as a cook full time now, yes I still do photo works on the side part time of course :wink:
So, yeah that is my excuse... I'm using them for work :lol:
Maybe we could get together sometime and I'll do the cooking 8)
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Great to hear about your job, Buddy, sounds like you're enjoying it so much you're even in denial about the knife affliction. :lol: Would love to have you over, my kitchen has enough toys and some good knives and I'd definitely love to learn some new dishes from you as long as you don't hold back, ped maak maak please! :wink:
-
I have seen this fellow at several custom knife shows. His stuff is AMAZING & his sharping demos scary! He is Murray Carter, he is Canadian and moved to Japan to study under The Yoshimoto clan smiths. He has since graduated and moved to Oregon, USA. He is a 17th Generation Yoshimoto Bladesmith and Certified Master Bladesmith. I just ordered some of his stuff during a sale he had for newsletter subscribers. Here is a link to his site.
http://www.cartercutlery.com/
Hey!
Yesterday at work a chef came in to do some tasting dishes for the head chef and etc. I'm not sure who he was but while I was working I notice one of his Japanese style knife have a very nice handle. I didn't know what it was but from the look of it, it is not ordinary knife.
I walked pass it a and it was Carter's :o I was like "wow, I've talk about this on AC!" Anyway, so I went up to him and talk to him about it. I asked to try it out. He was cool about it and handed it to me. It was very nice, very light, sharp and look like he maintained it well. From Carter's site I think it is was wabocho. I was impressed. It looked like carbon steel laminated with stainless steel on the outside. I think he say it is white steel and he changed the handle.
We ended checking out each other knife. It was funny, I was holding his Carter's and he was holding my now darker Misono's... "Nice patina on your carbon there" he said. I think others around the kitchen probably think we are nuts talking and feeling each other knife :lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Murray Carter makes some sweet knives but the handles are pretty "disposable." Cool that you got to do some knife testin'! :thumb:
-
Got this on my email today, 20% off Coupon from the Japanese Culinary Center in NYC. The only place in NY where you can find Tsukiji Masamoto.
(http://www.ttommyharris.com/knives/JCC-coupon.jpg) (http://japaneseculinarycenter.com/)
-
I read about the new store at another forum. Presuming they have a web site I'll have to check them out sometime- NY is a long way from SD! :lol:
-
I read about the new store at another forum. Presuming they have a web site I'll have to check them out sometime- NY is a long way from SD! :lol:
New York Mutual Trading Inc. opened the Japanese Culinary Center in April of 2009 to further continue making great strides for the culinary professional. The Center will have among other things: imported Japanese dishware, high quality cutting tools and a large variety of restaurant supplies. The Japanese Culinary Center also has a test kitchen where cooking classes and sake tastings have been conducted on an ongoing regular basis.
http://japaneseculinarycenter.com/
Hmmmm.....sake tastings....... :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :thankyou:
-
Got this on my email today, 20% off Coupon from the Japanese Culinary Center in NYC. The only place in NY where you can find Tsukiji Masamoto.
(http://www.ttommyharris.com/knives/JCC-coupon.jpg) (http://japaneseculinarycenter.com/)
Hey!
I've heard about this but never been there. Maybe I will check it out soon. Don't know if I will buy anything... well maybe :wink:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Slightly OT but still knife related...I just finished sharpening a couple for one of the new line cooks. The first was a chef's knife by Icel- I'll admit that's not a brand I've ever seen before. He got it at culinary school. It's pretty much the equivalent of a Forschner or Dexter, stamped, no distal taper. I started with a 500 grit Shapton GlassStone and cut an even bevel, then deburred a bit on an Idahone ceramic rod. Then I cut thru a block of hard felt, followed by stropping on hard felt impregnated with 1/8 micron Cubic Boron Nitrate. This does a really good job of cleaning off the burr- it would shave hair very cleanly with a 500 grit edge. I then finished with a 2k Naniwa Aotoshi ("Green Brick") and a quick strop. A pretty nice edge for a glorified house knife. I will the knife wasn't in awful shape. The kid who owns it has a 1k/4k combo water stone (or 1k/6k, I forget) which he used on his knives. The bevel wasn't super clean but it cut well. I'd say he's the only guy in the restaurant save myself that really understands how to sharpen. With some practice he won't need me to do his knives. :thumb:
He had another one for me to do, a Masahiro. This one was used very little and just at home. He was afraid to try to sharpen it because it's a heavily biased, differentially beveled blade- about 80/20 (ie 80% of the edge on the right side, 20% on the left). This can be intimidating to nOObish sharpeners but ultimately you don't do anything really different. You just start on the right side and follow the bevel, then flip it over and essentially deburr like you might with a yanagi-ba. I worked thru my standard Chocera progression: 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k Naniwa Jyunpaka (aka "Snow White", not a Chocera but a sweet stone), finishing on the 10k. Then I switched to felt with 1/8 micron CNB at a higher angle, then lowered the angle again and hit it with 2 different balsa strips- 0.5 micron Chromium Oxide, then 0.25 HA diamond. I finished with another higher angle pass with the felt/CNB. I feel this gives a very minute amount of convex/microbevel to the edge, hopefully making it last a bit longer.
The resulting edge was, if you'll forgive my non-PC language, retarded! The knife is a 210mm, and pretty damned thin. I think he'll be pretty surprised and pleased. 8)
-
Slightly OT but still knife related...
I don't think this is off topic at all. :D Sharpening and maintaining should be part of owning good Japanese knives... well any good knife.
Wow! That is a very through sharpening process there. You must have sharpest knives at work! :lol:
I just sharpen my knives with Mizuyama 1K and 6K stones here. :icon_lol: Yes, I was a bit worry at first doing my carbon Misono of which have 70/30 edge I think. I think I kept it close to that so far. What I'm worry most is trying to keep the shape of the knife.
Also, I found that each knife respond differently when sharpening it. I sometime sharpen an 8" Shun Classic for one of the sous chef at my work and it feel very different when I do it and it seems that I just can't get it to be as sharp as my Misono carbon knife. :roll:
Anyway, I checked out chefknivestogo.com and saw balsa and paste but don't know anything about this stuff :scratch: Is this use to finish off knives to remove burr and give it a mirror finish? Well, I don't think I will spend time giving my carbon steel knife mirror finish anyway... it is pointless to do that I think :lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Also, I found that each knife respond differently when sharpening it. I sometime sharpen an 8" Shun Classic for one of the sous chef at my work and it feel very different when I do it and it seems that I just can't get it to be as sharp as my Misono carbon knife. :roll:
Yeah, good luck with that! :lol: You will never, ever get a VG-10 Shun as sharp as a carbon Misono. :thumb: A Shun will take an acceptable edge but carbon it ain't. 8) IMOHO there are a few assorted powdered/tool steels that get about as sharp as carbon, but I don't think VG-10 or SG-2 are one of them. My semi-stainless Ichimonji TKC and Kagayaki CarboNext get about as sharp as carbon, perhaps a smidge less...it's so close it would hard to say either way.
Anyway, I checked out chefknivestogo.com and saw balsa and paste but don't know anything about this stuff :scratch: Is this use to finish off knives to remove burr and give it a mirror finish? Well, I don't think I will spend time giving my carbon steel knife mirror finish anyway... it is pointless to do that I think :lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Well, it can deburr. I use it to utilize compounds that are finer than any stone I have. For instance, the finest stone I own is a 30,000 grit Shapton Professional. In comparison, 0.25 Hand American micron diamond spray is about 64,000 grit; 0.125 micron CBN (Cubic Boron Nitrate) is about 128,000 grit. The CNB in interesting in that it both polishes and creates "bite" at the same time. How can it do dat? :scratch: :lol: I just know it does. 8)
Occasionally I'll use a rock hard felt strop charged with the 0.25 Hand American diamond spray to deburr. It does seem to work better than the naked felt alone.
-
Hey!
OK, it had been a while talking about knives. Well, let's do a follow-up on my post #46 here on this thread that I posted back in July 2010, almost 4 years ago about my Misono 240mm Carbon.
So, here it is almost 4 years later...
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3494/13068187824_4aa5ec6012_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8309248@N06/13068187824/)
My 240mm Misono Carbon Steel Gyuto Knives. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8309248@N06/13068187824/) by setpower1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/8309248@N06/), on Flickr
The bottom one. To summed it up, I like it so much that I went back to Korin during their Holiday Sale later that year to pick up another one of which I still have it in the box, shown above top.
Yes, almost 4 years later I still use it. I cook for living now so I use it almost daily. As you can see it developed patina all around. It is a wonderful knife, light, agile and comfortable. It feels like an extension of my hand. It holds the edge well and easy to sharpen. I enjoy using it every time and not to mention that everyone who ever used it love it... well, with my permission of course. :wink:
It is no longer nice and shinny like it used to be but I don't care, that's what it should be. Funny that some people think that it is older than it is. Over the years I have came across other knives like Shun, Global, Henckels, Wusthof and etc, mostly from people I met and worked with at the end I feel more comfortable coming back to this one. Anyway, unfortunately the price of Misono's knives have gone up. Still at the current price I think it worth it. Luckily I got those two before the price increase. :D
Since we are at it....
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2845/13067861535_a5a0eb957a_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8309248@N06/13067861535/)
Misono 240mm Carbon Gyuto, Tojiro 165mm Carbon Santoku, Kikuichi 270mm Yanagi. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8309248@N06/13067861535/) by setpower1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/8309248@N06/), on Flickr
Here are my other two knives that I have and use. The middle one is Tojiro 165mm Santoku also carbon steel, I use this as my back up knife or when I'm in very tight space. I have to admit that I'm not use to this shorter style. The bottom is Kikuichi 270mm Yanagi, I rarely use this one.
Well, I'm set for a while with knives.
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
I picked up a Tojiro Shirogami Nakiri (Christmas present to myself). It's an inexpensive knife, but I like it better than the Global that now sit in a drawer. I've got to learn to use my waterstone better. I bought a Suehiro 6000, but I still get better results with my grand dad's ancient Austrian Franz Swaty razor stone that is really way too small for sharpening knives. The water stone just sits in it's box now. :(
(http://linyajapan.com/ebayimg/knife/f699/f6992.jpg)
-
Sclark,
Love you my nikiri/nakiri. I'll post a pick tomorrow.
Diffenatly my favorite style.
Your knife looks very traditional. Very nice.
Bladesmith
-
Hahaha! I have that same exact Nakiri! It was only like $50 or so but it takes a great edge. Edge retention isn't spectacular but it's so easy to sharpen that it's not a big deal. Love the Misono! Very nice patina. A buddy of mine at work has a very old pre-WWII Henkels that he got while in culinary school in the 80's. His instructor had cooked for Hitler, no bullshit! At any rate, the knife was pitted and very dark with patina and the handle had been dipped in red paint. It was a mess but I offered to clean it up for him. I took most of the patina and all of the red rust off on my grinder with surface conditioning belts. They're akin to green Scotchbrite pads and come in a several grits. Long and the short I got cleaned up, dipped the handle in Camilla oil and put a hair-popping edge on it. Turns out it's a fantastic knife! :thumb: Great carbon steel.
Guess my memory isn't what it should be- I thought you'd always been a pro cook, SET Man?
-
Made this set years ago, kept the nakiri and sold the Santoku.
01 tool steel, my favorite kind of steel, with Honduras rose wood.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96194)
-
Korin is one great place for knives. The "mecca" so to speak.
Bought this one for my wife about 5 years ago and it is still her favorite over the set of Henkel's that we have in the kitchen. She likes the Japanese blades but prefer the European handles.
It's a Togiharu Santoku
(http://korin.com/HTO-INSA_SS.jpg)
-
This is the nicest nakiri I have ever made, sold it.
(The first one, in my previous post. Was my first nakiri. So it is sorta special. )
The hamon line in this knife was exquisite.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96200)
-
Made this set a couple of years ago, kept the nakiri and sold the Santoku.
01 tool steel, my favorite kind of steel. I think it is Honduras rose wood, not sure.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96194)
This is the nicest nakiri I have ever made, sold of course.
The hamon line was exquisite.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96200)
Hey!
Damn! Those are beautiful. Love the handles. :D
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Very beautiful work. Custom knives are a joy for a lifetime.
-
The first one, is a little crude, made with rosewood. It was my first nakiri. I am sentimental about it. But, the edge is outstanding. Great retention and easy to sharpen with a steel. I use it all of the time. Thin and light, works wonderfully.
The other is Amboyna burl, very sweet. Has the same steel, but has a round, more traditional handle,
-
Hahaha! I have that same exact Nakiri! It was only like $50 or so but it takes a great edge. Edge retention isn't spectacular but it's so easy to sharpen that it's not a big deal. Love the Misono! Very nice patina. A buddy of mine at work has a very old pre-WWII Henkels that he got while in culinary school in the 80's. His instructor had cooked for Hitler, no bullshit! At any rate, the knife was pitted and very dark with patina and the handle had been dipped in red paint. It was a mess but I offered to clean it up for him. I took most of the patina and all of the red rust off on my grinder with surface conditioning belts. They're akin to green Scotchbrite pads and come in a several grits. Long and the short I got cleaned up, dipped the handle in Camilla oil and put a hair-popping edge on it. Turns out it's a fantastic knife! :thumb: Great carbon steel.
Guess my memory isn't what it should be- I thought you'd always been a pro cook, SET Man?
Hey!
Rob, I've been cooking here and there since I was young for myself, family, friends and etc. But I've made a plunge in to pro culinary world about 7-8 years ago, still a baby compare to you I guess :lol:
Man! Learning from someone who used to cook for Hitler? Man! Now that's something you don't hear everyday :lol: Talk about old carbon knives, one of the chef at work love the old big Sabatier knives. He told me he that he got one or two from garage sale for $2-3 each, than cleaned them up. But they are not for me for sure.
Yes, I got that Tojiro Santoku back when it was $39. I let my friend at work borrow it for a day and he left it wet and it rusted. So, I decided to take off the finish, but somehow I just can't get it to form patina like the Misono. It is not a bad knife even at $50, the blade is thin and can get very sharp, but like you said it doesn't hold the edge well. I used this as my back up knife or when I'm in tight space. But I have to admit that I have close call with this one often, so I don't think Santoku style is for me, so I rarely use it. :? I might have to look for a new back up knife to use, maybe a cheaper stainless one.
As for maintaining them. I have 1000 and 6000 Mizuyama stones and I picked up a 500 from Chef's Knives to go, because people I know always ask me to sharpen their knives so that help to save me time with very dull knives.
BTW... can you recommend me a stone fixer? Korin is having a sale on Knives Accessories right now I might go check out a stone fixer there...
http://korin.com/Knives/Stone-Fixer_2 (http://korin.com/Knives/Stone-Fixer_2)
Anything you see that you think is good?
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Set Man,
I got this pic from your post (#104).
Excellent set of knives. You can do about anything with those three styles.
I wish you continued success in your journey.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96203)
-
Very nice work, Bladesmith! I really like the rustic look of the nakiri.
The cheap Tojiro is a good basic blade, but mine wasn't very flat when I got it. I had to bend it a bit to get it straight. If you get too much patina you can sometimes get if off with baking soda or Barkeeper's Friend and a green scrubbie. A belt sander is soooooo handy for repairs, sharpening and just lots of things.
My favorite stone fixer is a DMT XXC Dia-Sharp or an Atoma diamond plate. They cut fast and more importantly, they stay flat. If you get a stone fixer that is itself a stone, eventually you need to flatten the flattener. In Japan they often have three fixers and they use a specific regimine of flattening them on each other in a certain order. No thanks, I'll use a DMT! :thumb:
-
Very nice work, Bladesmith! I really like the rustic look of the nakiri.
The cheap Tojiro is a good basic blade, but mine wasn't very flat when I got it. I had to bend it a bit to get it straight. If you get too much patina you can sometimes get if off with baking soda or Barkeeper's Friend and a green scrubbie. A belt sander is soooooo handy for repairs, sharpening and just lots of things.
My favorite stone fixer is a DMT XXC Dia-Sharp or an Atoma diamond plate. They cut fast and more importantly, they stay flat. If you get a stone fixer that is itself a stone, eventually you need to flatten the flattener. In Japan they often have three fixers and they use a specific regimine of flattening them on each other in a certain order. No thanks, I'll use a DMT! :thumb:
Hey!
Hmmm... thanks Rob, I will have to check that out.
Set Man,
I got this pic from your post (#104).
Excellent set of knives. You can do about anything with those three styles.
I wish you continued success in your journey.
Thank you, so far so good.
And yes, I do most of my work with the Misono. I love the look of people when they see me deveining shrimps or working on tiny baby artichokes with my 240mm Misono :lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Hey!
BTW... can you recommend me a stone fixer? Korin is having a sale on Knives Accessories right now I might go check out a stone fixer there...
http://korin.com/Knives/Stone-Fixer_2 (http://korin.com/Knives/Stone-Fixer_2)
Anything you see that you think is good?
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Check out Woodcraft (woodcraft.com) and Japan Woodworker (japanwoodworker.com) for flatteners as well. Sometimes they are on sale at those sites.
-
Hey SET Man!
Stone flattener on clearance sale at Japan Woodworker:
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/Product/156223/Large-24-grit-Flattening-Stone-for-Water-Stones.aspx
-
Hey SET Man!
Stone flattener on clearance sale at Japan Woodworker:
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/Product/156223/Large-24-grit-Flattening-Stone-for-Water-Stones.aspx
Hey!
Thanks. :D
I also have been checking and considering the DMT that Rob mentioned but that cost more. It looks good and should last me a lifetime.
Or should I cheap out and get coarse sandpaper at Home Depot? Hmmm. :icon_lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
The 24 grit flattener will work...but eventually you'll have to flatten it as well. The DMT plate is flat to something like three or four decimal places- plenty good for truing stones. A DMT will eventually wear out if you use it as a sharpening "stone" (ie. doing knives on it) but it will last a very, very, very long time when just used to true water stones. I've been using the same XXC for at least three or four years and it still cuts like new. I've been using an XC for sharpening and that one is around five years old, and it still works pretty well.
The DMT is a little expensive in a way (about $85) but when you consider the fact it lasts forever it's a good value.
-
SET Man,
If you already have a thick glass sheet or granite surface plate then you should definitely go with sandpaper. But I wouldn't use sandpaper on any other work surface.
-
I actually prefer drywall screen to regular sandpaper. It's arranged in a net/screen pattern which helps carry the residue out of the way.
-
Hey!
Drywall screen? :o
Anyway, I've made my decision. I will go with DMT XXC. Yes, it is expensive, but I feel that since I have decent knives and stones I should maintenance it right. And the DMT should last many a years anyway and with this kind of things, the price will only go up not down.
BTW... guys what do you think about this knife? I think I might add a stainless to my set. Something not too expensive and that I can beat it up and don't have to worry about it much.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/goko.html (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/goko.html)
It is pretty for sure :P
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
That's a nice looking knife for not much $.
Just got an Edgepro system the other day. Still learning it, but after I get a couple of dozen blades done, I'll give a report here.
-
Hey!
Drywall screen? :o
Anyway, I've made my decision. I will go with DMT XXC. Yes, it is expensive, but I feel that since I have decent knives and stones I should maintenance it right. And the DMT should last many a years anyway and with this kind of things, the price will only go up not down.
BTW... guys what do you think about this knife? I think I might add a stainless to my set. Something not too expensive and that I can beat it up and don't have to worry about it much.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/goko.html (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/goko.html)
It is pretty for sure :P
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
I don't know that knife but it should be a good one. Sanvik makes great SS, should be good edge retention and take a good edge. The suminigashi pattern is just for looks but it does look nice!
The DMT is a lot nicer than using sandpaper! I think you'll be glad you went that route. Only minor issue is stiction but it's not a big deal.
-
That's a nice looking knife for not much $.
Just got an Edgepro system the other day. Still learning it, but after I get a couple of dozen blades done, I'll give a report here.
With a bit of practice I think you'll really love it.
-
Hey!
Well, look at what the FedEx guy delivered yesterday :D
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7233/13458529645_68cc097244_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mvhtYz)
Let's see what's inside...
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7420/13458894284_238493e37f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mvjmns)
OK, I admitted that I'm a sucker and bought the Goko...
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/13458651213_3ab9f2f519_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mvi77z)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3828/13458527425_2cc74af538_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mvhtji)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2904/13458891374_42502cb329_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mvjkvh)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2877/13458890784_cd6a0cf653_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mvjkk7)
But if if truth to be told, my first impression is that it looks better than it feel in hand. The fit and finish is not as good as good or feel as luxurious as my Misono Carbon. The good news is that the blade itself is pretty good and very sharp out of the box. The handle feel big for the size of the knife and light. With that the balance seems to be much more toward the front unlike my Misono of which seem to have a point of balance around it's bolster of which I'm used to.
For a current price of $119 it is a very pretty knife for sure. I sprung another $30 for the saya of which is well made and the wood is thicker than the one I got from Korin for my Misono but a bit too big for the Goko, it rattling around in it :?
As for the DMT plate, it is heavy and feel very good but I haven't use it yet. But look like it will do the job of keeping my stones flat nicely.
Anyway, I bought it to be my stainless back up knife. But I will put the Goko to it paces tomorrow at work and see how it feel and handle all the tasks. Well, I do think I have enough knives for work now :wink:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
That's pretty sexy! Don't sweat the handle- they're basically disposable. I have an $800+ gyuto with a $100 knife handle. :lol: Doesn't affect the way it cuts. Let us know how you like her once you've used her for a week. :thumb:
-
Which EdgePro system did you get? Is the Apex Model 1 good enough? Or do you need a better one? The better ones have ceramic hones and different stones. I looked at a YouTube video where they told you how to use the system, and they used a 600 grit stone, which isn't in the first (cheapest) system.
-
Nice to see so many knife enthusiasts and this long running thread. I am not pro level like most of you guys but have been slowly trying a few knives and different steels.
Just bought a 240mm Richmond Artifex yesterday. They are doing a limited charity run and this one has a red handle. Chopped a few onions with it. Man, what a nice knife! Long, thin, light, good edge out of the box, and very nicely balanced. I am already liking it better than my tojiro dp 240mm. Will like to see how well the aeb-l steel holds up over time. And it is priced very reasonably too.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar210gyor.html
-
Which EdgePro system did you get? Is the Apex Model 1 good enough? Or do you need a better one? The better ones have ceramic hones and different stones. I looked at a YouTube video where they told you how to use the system, and they used a 600 grit stone, which isn't in the first (cheapest) system.
Any of the Apex kits will be good. It's the same machine regardless, they just add different/more stones. You can get the basics and add stones down the road. However it's a better deal to get it with more in the first place. If you use mostly German knives (or similar) then the basic is enough. If you're into Japanese knives you'll want more stones, though.
Nice to see so many knife enthusiasts and this long running thread. I am not pro level like most of you guys but have been slowly trying a few knives and different steels.
Just bought a 240mm Richmond Artifex yesterday. They are doing a limited charity run and this one has a red handle. Chopped a few onions with it. Man, what a nice knife! Long, thin, light, good edge out of the box, and very nicely balanced. I am already liking it better than my tojiro dp 240mm. Will like to see how well the aeb-l steel holds up over time. And it is priced very reasonably too.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar210gyor.html
Nice! The Artifex is a great knife. I've sharpened a few for coworkers. AEB-L is a fantastic steel, too.
-
I have been waiting a long time to get this knife in my kitchen and do some long term testing with it.
"D" handle with Amboyna burl, brass bolster and pommel.
"01" carbon steel, just so user friendly. You can chop dried hedge with it, the edge will not deform, and easy to reestablish the edge using a course steel rod.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97050)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97052)
-
Nice, Bladesmith! I have maybe 40 knives in O1; they're all from JK Handmade Knives. Great steel. Very good looking knife, too. A little more belly than I generally prefer but quite beautiful.
-
It is a little aggressive in design. More old fashioned. More versatile. Will do anything, not for the inexperienced. And my 01 steel is water quenched. My 01 is not your standard steel.
But, I am still a big nakiri fan, as far as daily use. (Although, you can't debone a chicken with a nakiri.)
-
Been looking at steak knives. W-S has Shun in sets of four but I only need two. Hate to pay for extras.
Did some checking on the wed sites listed here. Not a lot of Japanese steak knives available.
So the question I would like answered is what all of you use. Was thinking that another knife would work as well.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
-
maybe because there isn't much steak in the Japanese diet...
-
Hey!
Well, it has been almost 3 weeks now since I got the Goko knife (see post #128), how time files.
Anyway, let's start this follow up by saying that for the current price of $120 it is a very good knife. For 2 weeks I put my Misono carbon away and use it exclusively. I use it for everything from meat, fish, veggies and etc. It perform well, the blade is sharp and it is very thin and well polish it actually have less drag than my Misono and that's impressive. Is also lighter and that's something I have to get use to at first.
It hold the edge well, start to show wear well in to second week. And this is impressive also. So, I gave it a good sharpening on my #1000 and #6000 stones and to my surprise it is quite easy to sharpen unlike some other stainless steel knives I've sharpen like Shun and my old 8" Korin of which I think both use VG10 core. And it is now actually sharper than when it was new out of the box. And another thing... everybody at my work love it, they love the look and it's sharpness. Most of them actually think it cost around $200-300 bucks. And
Any cons? Yes, the balance... I do like the balance of Misono better but the Goko is not far off for me. The handle is a bit too long for me and I wish the fit and finish of the handle could be better, I actually melted a bit of bee wax to seal the space between the blade and the handle so nothing get in side it.
So, do I like it better than my Misono carbon? Well, yes and no. I still like to use my Misono but it is nice to have a good sharp stainless that is light to switch over sometime.
I don't have many knives. But I can confidently say that I do recommended this knife if you are looking for a light sharp stainless and you can live with this type of handle. I have to say that for $120 it is an impressive knife.
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Cool! Some of those Swedish stainless steels really feel and sharpen like regular high carbon. :thumb: Nice to see edge retention is good. 'Civilians' talk about sharpening a knife a couple times per year but that doesn't fly in a restaurant kitchen! :duh: :lol: If I can go a couple weeks without messing with it I'm happy. My M390 Ultimatum held an edge for 3 months!
-
Yeah Rob, I constantly read knife reviews where some one is talking about only needing to sharpen their knife a couple times a year and I wonder how that's possible (or how low their standards are for "sharp enough.") Maybe they just don't cook that often? My wife and I use our Japanese knives many times every day as every meal we eat is cooked at home from scratch. Lots of chopping garlic, ginger, and onions as we cook gobs of Asian style food. Even using a leather strop with polishing paste every day to touch up the edge before use only gets me perhaps three weeks before I want to touch up the edges of our workhorse santoku knives again on a stone.
-
Hey!
Rob and Photon, if I use only one knife like my Misono, I usually sharpen very two weeks... sometime sooner. I've gone up to 3 weeks sometime with the help of smooth honing steel, of which I don't like to use often. With most knives including very good one. I can't imagine any real world restaurant kitchen that you could sharpen just couple times a year with with the help of honing steel.
Yes, people have different standard of "sharp" Some of the people at my work think they knives are very sharp, well at least until they feel my knives. :wink:
Now I have the Goko of which I'm getting to know and comfortable with I can rotate and do sharpening less... I just have to do both at the same time of which a a big deal since both are easy to sharpen.
Anyway, man! 3 months on M390? Wow, that's unheard of. :o
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Funny- when I got to work today my boss pulled me into the office all excited, wanting to show me the new knife he ordered. Yep, the same Goko you have! :thumb: I told him he would probably be pretty happy with it.
The Richmond Ultimatum in M390 is indeed awe inspiring! :o When I first got it I sharpened it with the following progression: 140 Atoma > 320 Shapton Pro > 1k GlassStone > 4k GlassStone > 8k GlassStone > 10k Naniwa Chocera > Kangaroo leather strop doped with 1/8 micron CBN. It would treetop hair cleanly. After three weeks of using all day every, six days a week, it would still shave! :icon_twisted: It was three full months before I used used the ceramic hone on it. I have never, ever seen anything like that. And the rumor is that HAP40 is even better! :o :o
-
Funny- when I got to work today my boss pulled me into the office all excited, wanting to show me the new knife he ordered. Yep, the same Goko you have! :thumb: I told him he would probably be pretty happy with it.
The Richmond Ultimatum in M390 is indeed awe inspiring! :o When I first got it I sharpened it with the following progression: 140 Atoma > 320 Shapton Pro > 1k GlassStone > 4k GlassStone > 8k GlassStone > 10k Naniwa Chocera > Kangaroo leather strop doped with 1/8 micron CBN. It would treetop hair cleanly. After three weeks of using all day every, six days a week, it would still shave! :icon_twisted: It was three full months before I used used the ceramic hone on it. I have never, ever seen anything like that. And the rumor is that HAP40 is even better! :o :o
Hey!
So, it had been sometime, dose he like the Goko?
As for me, I still like and use my Goko. Alternating between my Misono carbon and Goko. And yes there are some job that I would use Goko rather than the Misono carbon, like when I have to work with artichoke, especially the baby ones.
Anyway, I do noticed that the blade would creep out from the handle a bit. But no big deal, I just bang it back in. And the blade is thinner and that flex a bit with some job wish is not a good feeling sometime. Other than that is a fine knife to use.
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
He likes it but he's getting a bit tired of the cheap feeling handle. I may try to change it to a different handle for him. I've never done it but I understand the procedure.
-
I ran across an Alton Brown video that talks about knives.
Looks like he's a big fan of Shun, but regardless, there's some neat information in the video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8kDWPf_bHU#t=37
-
Shun makes some nice knives, but Alton B isn't a disinterested critic. He has his own line of Shun knives... I know since I have three of them. They were a great deal when Amazon closed out a three knife set for $75 a couple of years ago.
-
Thanks Scott. I've been lurking in this thread since its beginning. I'm not a pro chef, but do appreciate "quality things". That being said, I can't help but to dream of a good knife. My Mother peruses the isles of charity stores and has amazingly found several Henckels for the low low price of $5 a piece, all of which I now own....including a foot long "half sword" that I absolutely love. But I still cant help but to wonder what a high quality Japanese knife would feel like.
I figured it was a safe assumption that Shun and Alton were in bed together, but I didn't know he had his own line.
Speaking of which, I think some of the "Guy" brand of knives are pretty sexy (not sure if they're even Japanese), but I can't help but to wonder if those are more "show" than "go".
Either way, I thought the video was cool, learned a few things from it, and thought it was appropriate for this thread.
I hope y'all enjoy. :thumb:
Bob
-
Shuns are nice, much better than the Global knives I used to own. But the rumor about Shuns being prone to chipping is sadly true. My 6 inch knife got a chip after a very short drop into the kitchen sink. These are not exactly tough knives. But, after a bit of time on the Wicked Edge, I got the chip out and the knife is as sharp as it has ever been.
-
Yeah, VG-10 in general is prone to chipping, and I don't think Shun is really any worse than normal in this regard. Shun is okay but "just barely " a Japanese knife. It's a J-knife made for people who don't want J-knives. :lol: Still I'll take a Shun over a Wusthof. :thumb:
Glad you're liking your WEPS, Tyson.
-
Higher quality steel can make a better edge. But a good smith will and can make a better knife out of a simple steel like L6, 01 or 5160. It's a matter of mastering the art and experience with the material. (Proper) Heat treating simple steel makes a great knife. No smith is a master over all of the different steels, available. It takes years of experience to master one.
-
Higher quality steel can make a better edge. But a good smith will and can make a better knife out of a simple steel like L6, 01 or 5160. It's a matter of mastering the art and experience with the material. (Proper) Heat treating simple steel makes a great knife. No smith is a master over all of the different steels, available. It takes years of experience to master one.
Very true! The heat treat is more important than the steel. And O1 is a great steel! I have over 50 knives in that steel from JK Handmade knives, really good stuffl
-
Hey guys,
A friend of mine is looking for a proper knife. She rarely cooks at home, but still wants a good blade. She really likes Shun, but I have been thinking of others.
What is your opinion on Shun Classic vs Tojiro ITK Shirogami Series?
She can get a 5.5" Shun Classic Santoku (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/shun-classic-2-piece-knife-set/?pkey=cknives-shun&cm_src=knives-shun||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_--_-) and a Classic 3.5" pairing knife for $150.
Or i was thinking she can get a 210mm Tojiro ITK Gyuto (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshwa21.html), a 120mm Tojiro ITK petty knife (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshpe120.html) and a 165mm Tojiro Shirogami Nakiri (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toshna161.html) for about $133.
What do you think about these? I know the Shuns are VG vs the White #2 steel that Tojiro uses. She will not be using these much, but I don't want her to be disappointed.
-
Check out the Richmind Series from Chefknivestogo.com.
-
Hey guys,
A friend of mine is looking for a proper knife. She rarely cooks at home, but still wants a good blade. She really likes Shun, but I have been thinking of others.
What is your opinion on Shun Classic vs Tojiro ITK Shirogami Series?
She can get a 5.5" Shun Classic Santoku (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/shun-classic-2-piece-knife-set/?pkey=cknives-shun&cm_src=knives-shun||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_--_-) and a Classic 3.5" pairing knife for $150.
Or i was thinking she can get a 210mm Tojiro ITK Gyuto (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshwa21.html), a 120mm Tojiro ITK petty knife (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshpe120.html) and a 165mm Tojiro Shirogami Nakiri (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toshna161.html) for about $133.
What do you think about these? I know the Shuns are VG vs the White #2 steel that Tojiro uses. She will not be using these much, but I don't want her to be disappointed.
Hey!
Not a fan of Shun, doesn't matter which level. To me there are better knives out there for the same price.
Also, for home cook who rarely cook, I would not recommend carbon steel. Stick with stainless steel. And a 210mm size will be a good start for a home cook.
Personally I'm a fan of Misono, so maybe a 210mm Misono 440. But for less money than there's the 210mm Tojiro DP and yes, 210mm Richmond Artifex of which I've never handle but it does looks good.
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
-
Those are great suggestions guys, but I think it's a little more than what she wants to spend. Under $100 per knife.
She doesn't want a western style handle, which limits her options.
-
I should say under or around $100 per knife.
-
At the risk of asking a stupid question after it was said she doesn't really cook much....
What will she be using these knives for? Is she likely to be getting into Sushi? Has she found a style of handle that she does like?
Gotta agree on the carbon vs SS blade statement above, but there are tons of options out there. If she does get into a good Japanese knife with varying angles, make sure she understands the sharpening issues.
-
So I've informed her of these issues and concerns. It seems she doesn't like the look of a tradition handle. I know that's not ideal, but that's what I'm working with. At this point, I think she should get the Shuns. It will make things easier for me :)
-
The Richmond Ultimatum in M390 is indeed awe inspiring! :o When I first got it I sharpened it with the following progression: 140 Atoma > 320 Shapton Pro > 1k GlassStone > 4k GlassStone > 8k GlassStone > 10k Naniwa Chocera > Kangaroo leather strop doped with 1/8 micron CBN. It would treetop hair cleanly. After three weeks of using all day every, six days a week, it would still shave! :icon_twisted: It was three full months before I used used the ceramic hone on it. I have never, ever seen anything like that. And the rumor is that HAP40 is even better! :o :o
This is an old thread, but I thought I'd add a little something about HAP40. I got a Kohetsu 120 petty in that steel a few weeks ago, used an Edgepro, and took the blade down to 12.5 degrees. After a couple of weeks, no chipping, still very smoothly shaving. This stuff is one tough material and takes a super sharp edge.
-
Nice! I still haven't got a knife in HAP40 but I hope to eventually.
-
This is a Nakiri I made and sold. Made of 01 tool steel, quenched in water, the hamon line came out very well.
(All my knives are sold at this time, and I am not trying to use this forum as a sales opportunity.)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122938)
-
Where do you sell them? :o
-
Picture are often deceiving, but it looks thick for a Nakiri, more like a cleaver. My Nakiri is probably my favorite knife to use. Do you use a pinch grip on yours?
-
That's pretty cool. Do you have pics of more?
-
It's 3/32" thick 01 tool steel.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122948)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122949)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122950)
-
Picture are often deceiving, but it looks thick for a Nakiri, more like a cleaver. My Nakiri is probably my favorite knife to use. Do you use a pinch grip on yours?
sometimes, when I need to make a accurate/fine cut, but the rest of the time I use the standard grip.
My knives are very hard (62/63 Rockwell Hardness), but they are easy to sharpen, using a steel rod. making a dozen strokes, about 13/15 degrees. Making a flag on the edge, then I micro bevel at 45 degrees. I always micro bevel.
(modified: let me stress, my knives are very hard on the edge, but soft enough to bend where the hamon line stops. And hard as 62/63 RC from the hamon to the cutting edge.)
-
sometimes, when I need to make a accurate/fine cut, but the rest of the time I use the standard grip.
My knives are very hard (62/63 Rockwell Hardness), but they are easy to sharpen, using a steel rod. making a dozen strokes, about 13/15 degrees. Making a flag on the edge, then I micro bevel at 45 degrees. I always micro bevel.
(modified: let me stress, my knives are very hard on the edge, but soft enough to bend where the hamon line stops. And hard as 62/63 RC from the hamon to the cutting edge.)
That's a much nicer looking knife than my nakiri, and with that hardness it should take a screaming edge.
-
Your moniker has now taken on a real meaning to me. :thumb:
I like these. May I ask, what they sell for?
-
I have a Nakiri from Korin here in NY. I love it. I want to get a better one in time. I love the knife. It is my go to veggie chopper.
-
Just saw this thread.
Subscribing just for kicks.
Don't know much about knives but have the usual suspect such as Cutcos (sold these when in grad school - lasted all of 2 week... :duh: Please don't hold it against me...:)
I do have some Shuns which I know is not considered great knives by serious enthusiasts but I do like the Ken Onion Santoku in their higher end steel SG-2 steel. That knife is just incredibly sharp and fast and the handle feels great.
However, I recently got back from the Orient and picked up a cheapie 7 inch US$4 knife that is shaped like chef knife. But a more elegant curved edge. Sorta like a Bob Kramer shape on the top though more streamlined on the cutting edge. The handle is just simple wood and rather large. The tang doesn't even fully fill the wood out so there is a gap. It rusts like nobody's business if stored wet. But what a knife! I don't know what is it about the knife but it has this really razor sharp edge with very fine jagged edges. And the handle is just a slab of cheap looking wood and is very large. It simply allows the finest control I've ever had with a knife along with an effortless sense of cutting. It's so good that my wife who is a knife agnostic is now using knife over all the other knives I've gotten her. I no longer use my paring knife given how much control I have with this. Just odd. I'll say though, this is not a fluke as all the street vendors in this city use the exact same knife and they all pay that same paltry US$4. That fact that they all seem to use the same knife got my attention and I grabbed a couple just for kicks not thinking it will become our favorite knife. Surprised obviously.
No clue if this if an interest but figure I'll just make a note as I mark this thread.
UL
-
Your moniker has now taken on a real meaning to me. :thumb:
I like these. May I ask, what they sell for?
They all vary in price from $130.00 to $300.00. All have life time guarantees and 60 day money back guarantees.
If they ever break, chip or whatever, I replace it. But, so far I have never replaced one or had a return. But, it's only been ten years, maybe one will wear out, who knows..
-
Very nice work! :thumb:
-
Where do you sell them?
-
Where do you sell them?
I will have a large selection to choose from at the end of July. They will be as good as any custom order I have ever made, but will just be my design and personal choices. I am at www.palmerknives.com .
(I am working on some Nakiri's using 52100 (ball bearing steel) and 01 tool steel right now. The 52100 blades are too hard (rockwell hardness) right now, I need to soften them up a bit, in the tempering process. They won't be better than my "01" tool steel, just more exotic and a little more expensive. I will provide Nakiri's in "01" and "52100" by abundance by the end of July.)
-
That's an amazing skill you have there Sir.
One of these days, I will place an order. :thumb:
-
I will provide Nakiri's in "01" and "52100" by abundance by the end of July.)
Could you PM me when you are ready to sell some?
-
Could you PM me when you are ready to sell some?
Sure, I'll give you a PM..
Pic of my arsenal..
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123091)
-
got a global 8" chef knife over the weekend. it's fantastic. better than the 5 year old kyocera i have. then again, i've never sharpened the kyocera, so it's probably not a fair comparison.
-
I've started replacing our 14 year old set of J. A. Henckels classic knives with Kyocera ceramic knives. I'll never go back to steel knives. The Kyocera ceramic knives cut through just about anything like going through butter. I can't believe how much control they give me.
Martin
-
Ceramic is great, until you drop one. :duh:
And you will eventually drop one..
-
This is true.
My ceramic knife looks like its serrated from dropping it.
Of course it always lands sharp side down. :roll:
-
This is true.
My ceramic knife looks like its serrated from dropping it.
Of course it always lands sharp side down. :roll:
aerodynamics :lol:
-
:lol: Never thought about it like that. Good point! (pun intended).
-
I have a pair of ceramic scissors I use when working with Kevlar but no knives.
Think I will stick with the Shun knives for now!
-
Gyuto Chefs knife made of 01 tool steel. Very light Rosewood handle.
I don't use a Gyuto very much, or even a western style chefs knife.
But, most of my friends use them exclusively.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128269)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128270)
-
VERY sexy! :thumb:
-
Ceramic is great, until you drop one. :duh:
And you will eventually drop one..
Personally, I'd never buy another ceramic knife. I've had two of them, and even without dropping them, they chip too easily. And there's no way to sharpen them without sending them back.
-
Gyuto Chefs knife made of 01 tool steel. Very light Rosewood handle.
I don't use a Gyuto very much, or even a western style chefs knife.
But, most of my friends use them exclusively.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128269)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128270)
I noticed you have a lot of Japanese style Chef's knives, but only one "Western" style Chef's knife. I've only ever used a Western style Chef's knife. What are the benefits of a Japanese style over a Western style? What can you cut with Japanese style knives (for instance, it seems as if a Japanese style knife would be hard to use for cutting between bones, removing the "skin" off beef, carving turkeys, etc.)? How long does it take to learn how to use a Japanese-style knife?
-
I noticed you have a lot of Japanese style Chef's knives, but only one "Western" style Chef's knife. I've only ever used a Western style Chef's knife. What are the benefits of a Japanese style over a Western style? What can you cut with Japanese style knives (for instance, it seems as if a Japanese style knife would be hard to use for cutting between bones, removing the "skin" off beef, carving turkeys, etc.)? How long does it take to learn how to use a Japanese-style knife?
I have used western style chef knives, French, German, etc. But, I use Japanese (style) knives exclusively now. Japanese knives made with American steel. I own dozens of chef knifes, but only use three knives the most.
I use the three knives below, Japanese Utility, Nakiri, Boning knife.
Those three will do everything.
Most would argue that a Nakiri, Gyuto and a Utility knife would be better, as a complete package or the best foundation.
(There is no learning curve to speak of.)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128298)
-
I bought one blade smith. Amazing quality. Only issue I have had is my wife leaving it in the sink. Sigh.
-
That bottom one.....oh man..... that's a thing of beauty.
-
I bought one blade smith. Amazing quality. Only issue I have had is my wife leaving it in the sink. Sigh.
Sorry to hear that. Is the knife ruined or badly blemished ?
V..
-
Those are beautiful knives. Now I know what to ask for, for Christmas.
-
I have used western style chef knives, French, German, etc. But, I use Japanese (style) knives exclusively now. Japanese knives made with American steel. I own dozens of chef knifes, but only use three knives the most.
I use the three knives below, Japanese Utility, Nakiri, Boning knife.
Those three will do everything.
Most would argue that a Nakiri, Gyuto and a Utility knife would be better, as a complete package or the best foundation.
(There is no learning curve to speak of.)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128298)
I've tried a couple Japanese knives that were only beveled on one side. Just couldn't get used to using them. I grab my Western chef's knife most of the time. The steel is inferior, but it will hold an edge, and responds to steeling, which I find to really help on delicate tasks like slicing tomatoes (basically fine serrations). I do have a Japanese utility knife (beveled on both sides) that I occasionally use. It's a joy to hold, but I learned on one if its first outings not to cut tough things--I had to remove quite a bit of steel to remove the chips I took out of it cutting up a squash.
-
I've tried a couple Japanese knives that were only beveled on one side. Just couldn't get used to using them. I grab my Western chef's knife most of the time. The steel is inferior, but it will hold an edge, and responds to steeling, which I find to really help on delicate tasks like slicing tomatoes (basically fine serrations). I do have a Japanese utility knife (beveled on both sides) that I occasionally use. It's a joy to hold, but I learned on one if its first outings not to cut tough things--I had to remove quite a bit of steel to remove the chips I took out of it cutting up a squash.
The single bevel is an advanced blade. I would suggest using a Santoku or a Nakiri with a double bevel.
Single bevels are special purpose knives. Not for general use.
V...
-
Single bevels are special purpose knives. Not for general use.
For what particular use, then?
-
For what particular use, then?
Used for cutting fine pieces of sashimi.
And fine detailing and peeling vegetables.
Here's mine. Required learning to master a single bevel.
V...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128344)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128347)
-
Used for cutting fine pieces of sashimi.
And fine detailing and peeling vegetables.
Here's mine. Required learning to master a single bevel.
A bit like flying a plane--it gives you a visceral understanding for lift, as if you try to cut straight, the blade dives into the material you're cutting. If you hold it at an angle equal to the bevel, however, it slices nicely. Definitely takes practice.
My utility knife cuts nicely and is easy to use. It takes and holds a keen edge (as long as I don't cut acorn squash :duh:) I still prefer my 40 year old Henkels chef knife for most tasks, though.
-
Not badly blemished. Was able to clean it up pretty well.
-
BUMP an old thread.
Hey all, I ran across some knives, and I'd like your impression and opinion of them (before I buy, not after).
Here's a video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kXMf1UKxEI
And here's the cart with the various knives;
http://www.japanese-knife-store.com/
Seems like a good price, but I'm not sure if they're truly junk or a good value.
Thanks! :D
-
I like the 170 mm Santoku Very much. Plenty of edge and takes little effort to control.
-
I wish they would offer more information. The only brand I know is Tojiro, a lower end knife with decent VG-10 stainless.
I'd be more confident buying from Chef Knives To Go. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ Similar or better prices, a long history of repeat customers, an excellent and active forum- just a better supplier IMO.
-
Thanks for the lead Scott, at fist glance they look pretty cool.
I don't have a clue what I'm doing, and they've got a BUNCH of names I'm not familiar with. :lol:
-
Thanks for the lead Scott, at fist glance they look pretty cool.
I don't have a clue what I'm doing, and they've got a BUNCH of names I'm not familiar with. :lol:
You've got a great resource here in Rob Babcock. He knows his Japanese knives pretty well. I know enough to get in trouble. Having said that, it's important to know what characteristics you value. Then read up on steels. Then read what customers had to say about their knives.
I have some cheapish Shuns that I use quite a bit, and are VG-10 stainless. But I like Blue #1 steel better. I also have two HAP-40 steel knives. They keep an edge for months and months. There are so many knives, and each do something well-- kinda like putting a stereo together. Depends on what you value.
Rob has given good advice to me by PM.
-
Thank you Scott. Yea, I was hoping he'd chime in, as that's his profession. :thumb:
-
Like S Clark..."I know enough enough to get into trouble". 8) With that said, I have been very happy with knife purchases from these two sites:
http://www.epicedge.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=1249
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/
There is a lot of information and preferences about the "best" knives, so it can be daunting. Both sites offer buying advice. I prefer all stainless for cutting acidic fruits and vegetables (tomatoes), since high carbon blades will stain. Also, proper (softer wood) cutting boards are better for keeping those fine Japanese edges sharper longer. Good luck.
-
Great information, thank you. :D
-
There is a lot of information and preferences about the "best" knives, so it can be daunting. Both sites offer buying advice. I prefer all stainless for cutting acidic fruits and vegetables (tomatoes), since high carbon blades will stain. Also, proper (softer wood) cutting boards are better for keeping those fine Japanese edges sharper longer. Good luck.
[/quote]
FWIW, I found the staining on my carbon steel Japanese knives very easy to clean up with Maas Metal Polish. Polishing the blades just adds a few minutes to my my knife maintenance routine.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158881)
-
There is a great knife and restaurant supply store right in St. Louis! It is an old family-run operation, and it's on "The Hill" in their original, historic location.
They have a lot of expertise, a great assortment of knives, knowledgeable staff (a human to talk to) and a good selection of excellent quality knives from entry level to high-end. It's nice to have an expert at your disposal as well as to be able to hold the various knives in your hand before purchase. I've purchased several really good knives there! Hope this helps.
http://bertarellicutlery.com
-
It's sometimes hard to get a bead on all of those knives since the "brands" don't necessarily mean much. Many different labels/brands are simply OEMs of knives made by a handful of companies. That's not a bad thing nor is it an underhanded attempt at deception, it's just the way a lot of them are, even in higher end knives. For instance the highly regarded Hattori HD is made by Blazen/Ryusen and just finished by Hattori. The knives linked are familiar but I recognize a couple that almost certainly are OEMs of relatively well known knives. I would generally be inclined to be favorably disposed to them as the craftsmanship and quality among the various Japanese makes is pretty high.
As S Clark points out VG10 is pretty much entry level steel nowadays. There's nothing wrong with it but newer allows have many advantages (eg many of them take a better edge, have better edge retention and are easier to sharpen). I too like Blue #2 or Ao-Ko more than VG10 for most things. If you really really need stainless it's not a bad choice, especially if you're not paying a ton. It's not generally prone to chipping (all steels can chip of course) and it works well across a wide range of applications.
To date the only HAP40 knife I have is a Spyderco pocket knife. It holds an edge exceptionally well but as of yet I have not sharpened it. I am itching to get a 240mm HAP40 gyuto from CKTG.
If you do use a metal polish either make sure it's food safe or clean it up really well. Flitz is my weapon of choice for polishing although I haven't had to buy it recently. I caught a rumor that the formula has been changed but I have a good supply of it on hand already.
There's really nothing wrong with letting your knife patina. In fact, it's a good thing if you knife is HC. Once you get some patina it will prevent further oxidation and prevent active/red rust from forming.
-
LOTS of great info here fellas, I thank you all!
I'll be pampering the knife, and it'll never sit in the sink. So I don't "have to have" stainless.
This will be my "go to, all around" knife, so it'll be the jack of all trades in the kitchen.
-
Also, proper (softer wood) cutting boards are better for keeping those fine Japanese edges sharper longer.
Absolutely RPM ... while you didn't mention them, plastic boards are a complete abomination, though here in Australia health "standards" require their use in commercial situations. There's good research to suggest that plastic boards are actually more problematic than wood.
Finding the best wood for a board is nearly as great a quest as finding the right knife :)
Jules
-
Interesting. I would have thought the plastic would be best from a health standpoint (you can soak it in bleach) and good for the knife (since it's soft).
But hardwood, endgrain, and bamboo wood boards would be bad for a good knife since they're very hard, and bad healthwise as you can't soak them in bleach.
-
How about a rubber cutting board? They made in Japan if that matters. Knives & Stones (out of Australia) stocks some. I have not seen them available anywhere else though I haven't looked too hard. http://www.knivesandstones.com/search.php?search_query=cutting+board&Search= (http://www.knivesandstones.com/search.php?search_query=cutting+board&Search=)
-
Interesting. I would have thought the plastic would be best from a health standpoint (you can soak it in bleach)
Hi Bob,
Two things about plastic ... firstly, if you make a slice into it [micro-slice if you like] the bottom of the cut becomes quite closed once the knife leaves, so it's very hard to get anything in there to clean it. The second thing is that apparently wood has some antibiotic qualities and it's been found [sorry, I can't quote a source as it's been a while since I looked at it] that "germs" tend to die a horrible death on a wood surface while they can happily thrive on plastic. Well, maybe I exaggerated the "horrible" bit. Practically speaking I hate working on plastic because it's got no feel.
I've never tried bleach, preferring to run very hot water from the tap over the board in combination with scrubbing with a scotch brite [universal?] and soap. Professionally, it's not really possible to leave boards soaking between using them for different purposes and I'd be worried about the taste of bleach in food ... ??
I haven't tried rubber gregcss, so no comment but I imagine it would have quite a different feel to working on wood.
Yes Bob, hardwood and bamboo are definitely out and at the other end of the scale, some softer woods are too soft and the board wears away too easily. US timbers are no doubt different to Aus. wood but there are woods around that resist wear while still being soft enough to be kind to knives. My own preference is very fine grained from a very slow growing tree that's very hard to get hold of [of course :D]
-
There's a seemingly constant back and forth between biologists re. wood vs. plastic vs. ...
I think the issue is that plastic (with tons of little knife cuts) has plenty of little mini pools of liquid that harbor bacteria and beasties, even after it's well cleaned.
Wood can breathe. So those little cuts can dry out, making bacteria very unhappy.
Hence the reason old butcher shops had sawdust all over the floor.
Wood is good.
I use my wood boards for everything, raw chicken, etc. I wash them, spray them with vinegar, oil regularly. All good.
-
Well, this makes me happy. I've got a room in my house that I call a "woodworking room", and I like to fashion myself as a bit of a "woodworker".
That being said, I was concerned that plastic may be a better material in a kitchen from a bacterial standpoint.
Suffice it to say, that I've made it a few decades using a wood cutting board and haven't gotten sick, nor have I killed any of my dinner guests, not the least of which is my family.
I have a strong desire to produce quality cutting boards (someday) in my shop. I'm glad I won't have to call myself a "plasticworker", nor call the room in my shop a "plasticworking room".
Just doesn't have a good ring to it, now does it? :wink:
-
From childhood, I remember the massive end grain chopping blocks that used to exist in butcher's shops before someone decided plastic was beautiful and ruined the atmosphere of butcher's shops ... aaagh! Here, we've got the madness of coded plastic boards red, green, yellow and blue, all for different foods but while I get the idea of cross contamination, the implication is that there's going to be some sort of nasties left on your board after you've cleaned it and that just says to me, you haven't cleaned it :). Separate board for garlic ... sure!!
-
I use nylon and hate it. A nice end grain maple block is on my father's day list. It's the only thing on the list.
As far a cleaning, I'd be surprised to find out that a bit of diluted bleach affect either flavor or diner- if used sparingly and occasionally.
-
From a sanitation perspective wood and nylon are indistinguishable. It isn't necessary to soak a board; a simple diluted bleach wipe will work.
-
How about a rubber cutting board? They made in Japan if that matters. Knives & Stones (out of Australia) stocks some. I have not seen them available anywhere else though I haven't looked too hard. http://www.knivesandstones.com/search.php?search_query=cutting+board&Search= (http://www.knivesandstones.com/search.php?search_query=cutting+board&Search=)
Those are probably the best just from a performance and sanitation viewpoint. In America there's a line called SaniSafe (IIRC), rubber boards available in a many sizes and thicknesses. Cool thing is that you can plane/sand them down once they get 'scarred up' to remove the cuts and scratches.
I have a Boos block at home, end grain and a couple inches thick. It serves me pretty well but I'd love to get one from Boardsmith someday.
-
In America there's a line called SaniSafe (IIRC), rubber boards available in a many sizes and thicknesses.
Sani-Tuff® by Apex
https://www.notrax.com/t45-sani-tuff
My Rubber Cutting Board Experience (Sani-Tuff) (https://www.chowhound.com/post/rubber-cutting-board-experience-sani-tuff-725933)
-
Yeah, remembered it wrong- sanisafe! Great stuff. Not cheap but worth while, especially for restaurant use.
-
In case you're curious, "S Clark" is great at spending money.... YOUR money... :wink:
My first real knife. So much fun, I'm like a little kid at Christmas time.
Thanks for the recommendation Scott!
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20476388_203699473495844_4300994609486314851_n.jpg?oh=6728120748f1ff0d1dbd102b486c81be&oe=5A2FFA7B)
-
Oh dat's pretty! I've spent a bunch on records lately, but I may have to find some cash for that. From everything I read, it's a sharpener's dream. I bet with a bit of practice, you can get a better edge than what the smith put on it. Do a bit of reading on forcing a patina to give it a bit of rust protection... but the best protection is get in the habit of rinsing and drying often.
There is something special about a knife that a master craftsman made by hand.
-
Indeed Scott!
After using it for a while and getting the hang of it, I'll run it through the stones, but we need to get to know each other first.
I did shave a nice sized patch of hair off my arm. That's sharper than I expected an "out of the box" knife to be.
I'd love to know what the symbols say. Anybody out there know Japanese?
Isn't Woodsyi Japanese?
-
If I remember correctly, your finest stone is the Chosera 5K. You know, for $14 you can get a leather EdgePro stop, and another 25-30 gets some 1 Micron paste.... c'mon. You know you want it... :icon_twisted: "Shaving" sharp is just the beginning. And don't forget a wooden Sayas for storage and to keep the edge sharp- $30.
Actually, and seriously, you might want to oil/wax the handle and where the tang goes into the handle. A bit of water proofing helps prevent rust inside the handle where you can't see it.
I keep going back and looking at that photo. That's a lot of knife for not much cash. I really think I need one.
-
...
I'd love to know what the symbols say. Anybody out there know Japanese?
Isn't Woodsyi Japanese?
Sorry, Korean
-
Tom, thank you. My mistake.
Scott...... :lol:
For the money, you REALLY need one of these. :icon_twisted:
I think before I get the things you mentioned, don't I "need" a 8k or 10k stone?
-
That's evil, using my own words against me. :evil:
And yes, I do use an 8k Shapton before putting it on the strop. But I strop with .25 micron. Rob would probably say I'm taking too big of a jump, but damn, those high grit stones cost as much as a knife. I bet you could make the jump from 5K to 1 micron and have a nice step up in sharpness.
Maybe this will catch the eye of His Holiness of Sharpening and we can get the final and definitive answer. Or, you could just email the folks at CKTG.
-
That's evil, using my own words against me. :evil:
:lol: :icon_twisted:
Ok, good to know.
Yea, I'd like to hear opinions. I'm just barely comfortable with stones, stropping are a whole other matter.
-
..., stropping are a whole other matter.
Not with an EdgePro. You use the strop the same as the stones, except you drag away from the edge instead of cutting into it. And don't get lazy lifting the strop. If you strop into the edge, you'll cut the strop.
Now stropping by hand... that's a whole other matter.
-
Oh, interesting.
I didn't know there were strops for the Edgepro, I thought all stropping was by hand. Cool!
-
Ok, now there is one left at Chef Knives To Go. These are damascus clad White #2 steel santoku knives, nicely ground, with decent fit and finish... for eighty bucks shipped.
If you've been itching for a pretty Japanese knife that will perform and a cheap buy in price, this is it. 170mm is mediium size and will fit most kitchen chores nicely.
Mine is on the way.
-
In case you're curious, "S Clark" is great at spending money.... YOUR money... :wink:
My first real knife. So much fun, I'm like a little kid at Christmas time.
Thanks for the recommendation Scott!
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20476388_203699473495844_4300994609486314851_n.jpg?oh=6728120748f1ff0d1dbd102b486c81be&oe=5A2FFA7B)
Cruising elsewhere when I saw this photo and finally put One and One together.....Didn't realize there was at least one other Brethren into Audio. :duh:
:wave:
(or did I do this once before......?)
-
Cruising elsewhere when I saw this photo and finally put One and One together.....Didn't realize there was at least one other Brethren into Audio. :duh:
:wave:
(or did I do this once before......?)
If memory serves, I may have been the one to lead you to them??
But regardless, "Yes", I am one of the Brethren. :wave: 8)
-
If memory serves, I may have been the one to lead you to them??
But regardless, "Yes", I am one of the Brethren. :wave: 8)
Woo Hoo!
:wave: :thumb:
I was led to the Brethren by a member I met at the first SoCal Eggfest (can't remember the year). I assumed everybody at the time was on the Egghead forum and had never heard of it until Norco Redneck told me about it.
Anyway - LOVE that knife. Hope to get something similar someday.
-
Ya know what.... I do recall seeing that moniker over there. Duh... :duh:
Fancy meeting you here. :lol:
-
Pretty knife, but totally unnecessary. Geez, all you're cutting is vegetables and meat. It doesn't take artwork, or the money to buy it. You need to decide weather you're buying a conversation piece or a tool. If you're buying the former, spend what you want. If all you need is a tool, then $150 or so will do ya.
Doc
-
Pretty knife, but totally unnecessary. Geez, all you're cutting is vegetables and meat. It doesn't take artwork, or the money to buy it. You need to decide weather you're buying a conversation piece or a tool. If you're buying the former, spend what you want. If all you need is a tool, then $150 or so will do ya.
Doc
if I lived to be solely utilitarian I wouldn't even need to be human.
-
Doc, you've made this point before. Japanese knives are not for you. OK. Stick with your Chicago Cutlery or Cutco's.
I use a knife more than a screwdriver, and I stil don't buy cheap screwdrivers.
-
if I lived to be solely utilitarian I wouldn't even need to be human.
Nicely stated. A good knife is a joy to use. Joy is why life is worth living.
-
Pretty knife, but totally unnecessary. Geez, all you're cutting is vegetables and meat. It doesn't take artwork, or the money to buy it. You need to decide weather you're buying a conversation piece or a tool. If you're buying the former, spend what you want. If all you need is a tool, then $150 or so will do ya.
Doc
Cool!!! :thumb:
Because with the budget you've allocated, I'm just barely shy of being able to buy two of these!
$80 shipped seemed like a great price for a good looking tool that is also a great conversation piece.
If you're interested in one, I'll let you know when they have another batch and you can get yourself a couple.
... that is... assuming you want a tool, and not a conversation piece.
-
Doc, you've made this point before. Japanese knives are not for you. OK. Stick with your Chicago Cutlery or Cutco's.
I use a knife more than a screwdriver, and I stil don't buy cheap screwdrivers.
When it comes to pretentiousness, no one beats me. I buy incredibly expensive tools, but not knives. It's just not necessary. There's no better survival knife that a K-Bar. You can stick an inch into a tree and sit on it with out breaking. I think it cost less than a $100. Hell, you can hammer nails with it. There is no reason to spend more, unless you want to, of course, on a kitchen knife. I'll continue making that point as long as people recommend knives that cost an arm and a leg. It's not like it's audio equipment.
Doc
-
When it comes to pretentiousness, no one beats me. I buy incredibly expensive tools, but not knives. It's just not necessary. There's no better survival knife that a K-Bar. You can stick an inch into a tree and sit on it with out breaking. I think it cost less than a $100. Hell, you can hammer nails with it. There is no reason to spend more, unless you want to, of course, on a kitchen knife. I'll continue making that point as long as people recommend knives that cost an arm and a leg. It's not like it's audio equipment.
Doc
I have a K-Bar. Great knife. I wouldn't prep dinner with it though....
-
I have a K-Bar. Great knife. I wouldn't prep dinner with it though....
Right... I own a machete, but it's not in the top ten list of knives I'd shave my face with. But yea, it could do it, if need be.
There is no perfect knife for all situations.
I also own a half dozen different hammers. They can all pound a nail. Some would be... ohhh... slightly "inconvenient" to use for driving nails.
-
There's no better survival knife that a K-Bar. You can stick an inch into a tree and sit on it with out breaking. I think it cost less than a $100. Hell, you can hammer nails with it. There is no reason to spend more, unless you want to, of course, on a kitchen knife. I'll continue making that point as long as people recommend knives that cost an arm and a leg. It's not like it's audio equipment.
Doc
You know,Doc, this is a great thread for the Culinary Circle, so let's just say that I disagree and will suggest to others not to take your advice. You can do the same.
Now back to the topic "For Japanese knife enthusiasts" ... which obviously means this thread isn't for everybody.
-
Scott, don't run him off just yet, since I came in just under half his budget for this kitchen tool, I might be able to hook him up with one. Or two.
Also.....
I've got a guy on the BBQ site that is going to send my pic to his Japanese buddy (that lives in Japan) to get a translation! :thumb:
-
You know, my first two hand forged Japanese knives were $30 apiece for Blue #2 steel knives. Crude looking but, oh my, how functional- still use them.
When my new one comes in, if Doc is interested, I'll send him one of my older ones to try out, sharpened to .25 micron. I'd love to hear his impressions.
-
You know, my first two hand forged Japanese knives were $30 apiece for Blue #2 steel knives. Crude looking but, oh my, how functional- still use them.
When my new one comes in, if Doc is interested, I'll send him one of my older ones to try out, sharpened to .25 micron. I'd love to hear his impressions.
I'll even pay shipping.
-
I wish you fellas would read my posts a little more carefully; instead of assuming I wrote things I didn't. I never said you shouldn't buy a Japanese knife. They're wonderful examples of the art, but I'd never put one to a whet stone, nor would I prepare dinner with one. It would hang on the wall. I recommend that some of you might find "Forged in Fire" interesting".
Doc
-
Why would you not prepare dinner with one?
-
I wish you fellas would read my posts a little more carefully; instead of assuming I wrote things I didn't. I never said you shouldn't buy a Japanese knife. They're wonderful examples of the art, but I'd never put one to a whet stone, nor would I prepare dinner with one. It would hang on the wall. I recommend that some of you might find "Forged in Fire" interesting".
Doc
I've been watching it for quite a while.
I've got to find some free time to read through this thread.
This is a topic I know nothing about.
Thanks for sharing.
-
Why would you not prepare dinner with one?
Because a Damascus steel knife need not be dulled on a tomato or piece of meat. There are much cheaper alternatives, which you can screw up sharpening without ruining it. Those Japanese chiefs have guys to sharpen their knives, as do most chiefs. You really think those folks sharpen their own knives?
There are three things you need to know about knives. 1) The harder the steel, the more difficult to sharpen. 2) The sharper a knife is, the quicker it gets dull. So you only need to sharpen until you can easily cut a tomato. You're not shaving with it. That's why straight razors get dull quickly. 3) A dull knife is a dangerous knife.
Doc
-
I don't know Doc... I respect your opinion, but as a former auto mechanic, I learned early on about tools and levels of quality. I'd rather use a tool that is a joy to use that makes the task more enjoyable than one that simply "gets is done".
(We won't mention how much we all have in audio equipment when a simple "radio" would play music for us)
Besides, here's what it boils down to: I want it, have the money for it, and by God, I bought one. Done. 8)
-
You should buy it. Whether you use it or not is up to you. I have a woodworker's square. It's accurate to seven decimal points. It's made of brass and walnut. It is absolutely beautiful. Would I use it? Not on your life. I use a Starrett tri-square instead. Is it as accurate as the custom made one? No, but it's accurate enough.
Doc
-
Are there any nice high carbon knives made today? Those hold an edge for a surprising amount of time, but they were generally made thin in the past so there use was more limited as they are not as rigid. Also you have to be careful because they can develop rust and they don't look so pretty.
-
I did not have a clue that there's a thread on Audiocircles on knives....LOL.
I've had a number of knives through the years including Shuns etc. I know Shun is not a high end Japanese but we stopped there at SG2 steel. Well, my knife that beat them all was a $4 crude affair that I picked up from a fruit vendor somewhere in the streets of China. he raved about the knives so out of curiosity, I picked up one for kicks. I noticed that all the fruit vendors in that city was using that particular brand knife. After all, $4? That knife has an acute angle so I only use it for vegetables, fruits and boneless meat. I don't know what to say except that I've never had a knife that gave me so much control, cut so effortlessly and stayed sharp after use. After that came I put my Shun (SG2 steel) on ebay and got $300 for it used among other knives.
I don't have a clue what steel it is - it stains and will rust if I don't dry it, but man, it is a great knife!
-
I have a woodworker's square. It's accurate to seven decimal points.
I find that hard to believe. What is the make and model?
-
I find that hard to believe. What is the make and model?
Believe. It's packed up somewhere around here. I'm not going to go looking for it for you.
Doc
-
Believe. It's packed up somewhere around here. I'm not going to go looking for it for you.
Starrett's most accurate square, the Master Precision Square is accurate to .0001". If yours is 1000 times more accurate it really belongs in the Guinness Book of World Records. ;)
-
Are there any nice high carbon knives made today? Those hold an edge for a surprising amount of time, but they were generally made thin in the past so there use was more limited as they are not as rigid. Also you have to be careful because they can develop rust and they don't look so pretty.
Folsom,
Many/most of the modern Japanese knives utilize a high carbon steel. The core of the one that Bob and I just bought has a carbon content over 1% and is made by Hitachi Corp. This particular knife has soft damascus outer layers hand forged around the high carbon core. It's not uncommon for some variations of this core steel to have a hardness in the 64-65 range. In a standard forged knife, this would make for a blade that was too brittle, but layered in between softer steel, you can have the edge that takes a screaming edge, holds it, is easy to sharpen, and still is fit for daily work. High Rockwell doesn't always mean hard to sharpen. Most of these knives are easier than the stainless options (including Kabar).
Now, I do carry a carbon knife similar to your description, a 50+ year old Case. I like it because I can sharpen it better than the newer stainless. It's forgiving, but it need sharpening often. But comparing it to the Japanese steels is like comparing our stereos to a Bose Wave radio.
Your final observation is absolutely correct. You've got to take care of this type steel. Can't cut onions and leave it to clean up after dinner. Can't put it in the sink. But those of us that choose these knives are in the habit of rinse and dry immediately after using. But there are steels for those that need corrosion resistant. Read up on Hap-40 steels.
-
Well, I've got a piece of paper, somewhere that says -0.000002. I think I got through Woodsmith, a publication for the hobbyist many years ago.
Doc
-
Well, I've got a piece of paper, somewhere that says -0.0000002. I think I got through Woodsmith, a publication for the hobbyist many years ago.
I know you were just trying to make some point, but it seemed so incredulous as I've never seen or heard of any type of commercially available measuring tool with that kind of accuracy. Maybe something in a laboratory or related to the Hadron Collider .....
That's all. Sorry for veering off track.
-
Starrett's most accurate square, the Master Precision Square is accurate to .0001". If yours is 1000 times more accurate it really belongs in the Guinness Book of World Records. ;)
Well, I've got a piece of paper, somewhere that says -0.000002. I think I got through Woodsmith, a publication for the hobbyist many years ago.
Doc
I'm assuming this is matter of working in different units and perhaps a flubbed decimal place... 0.0001" is 2.54 microns, or 0.00000254m
-
I'm no math wiz. In fact I suck at it. I wouldn't know a denominator from a algebraic phrase.
Doc
-
I'm assuming this is matter of working in different units and perhaps a flubbed decimal place... 0.0001" is 2.54 microns, or 0.00000254m
I was automatically (and perhaps wrongly) assuming that decimal inches were being referenced as U.S. woodworkers traditionally use the inch scale.
BTW, I have a stereo amplifier that outputs 100,000 mW per channel into an 8Ω load ! ;)
-
:D :lol:
Just noticed this forum, I have been doing a lot of writing on the audio part, but I am an avid knife fan, I have Global, Shun, Kyocera, MAc, Caphalon Katana, and a Deba Hocho knife from the www.JapanWoodworker.com, which is my absolute favorite for about $30 bucks, it cuts better than all of my others and the sharpness is super!! I love the Mac sharpness also.
:thumb: Bill
I have a couple of their knives, the first Japanese knives I bought. For $30 buck, you can get some amazing steel.
But I just got my damascus Santoku, and like Bob in St. Louis, I'm ecstatic over the quality/price ratio. The blade is the work of a true master smith, and the fit and finish is better than some I've paid a lot more for.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=166400)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=166399)
-
Scott,
I am an idiot when it comes to knife.
Please educate me as to what use is for the Santoku?
Thanks,
Hugh
-
Scott,
I am an idiot when it comes to knife.
Please educate me as to what use is for the Santoku?
Thanks,
Hugh
Hugh,
I'd say it's kind of a jack of all trades kitchen knife. Not as big as a full chef knife, but quicker and more nimble. It's best suited to slicing/dicing vegetables, and prepping fish and chicken. The shape lends itself to push and pull cuts, but will still chop light stuff- doesn't have the weight of a cleaver. I was slicing some garden tomatoes earlier, and like most late tomatoes, they had blemishes that needed to be cut out. Instead of reaching for a paring knife, the Santoku could easily reach into it to remove the bad spots. A full chef knife is too big to easily do that kind of detail work.
Scott
-
Hugh,
I'd say it's kind of a jack of all trades kitchen knife. Not as big as a full chef knife, but quicker and more nimble. It's best suited to slicing/dicing vegetables, and prepping fish and chicken. The shape lends itself to push and pull cuts, but will still chop light stuff- doesn't have the weight of a cleaver. I was slicing some garden tomatoes earlier, and like most late tomatoes, they had blemishes that needed to be cut out. Instead of reaching for a paring knife, the Santoku could easily reach into it to remove the bad spots. A full chef knife is too big to easily do that kind of detail work.
Scott
Thank YOU Scott.
My knowledge about knives is about as good as a little kid, figuratively speaking. :)
When my wife found out how much our 2 boys paid for their knives, she almost fell out of the chair and she asked me why so expensive and my answer to her is how the heck do I know. ;)
Our youngest son went to Japan on business and he brought home 2 knives and they look pretty decent but I have no idea how much those are.
Thanks again Scott,
Hugh
-
When my wife found out how much our 2 boys paid for their knives, she almost fell out of the chair and she asked me why so expensive....
My wife ask the same question, usually about phono cartridges. :thumb:
-
My wife ask the same question, usually about phono cartridges. :thumb:
I think I am a little 'better' than you when it comes to audio. :lol:
Her first and last question re cost to me got this much as answer...You don't want to know. :thumb:
-
"Check it out Babe; I sent a donation to this audio guy's charity and he sent me free tubes!"
C'mon guys, it's easy math. 8)
-
"Check it out Babe; I sent a donation to this audio guy's charity and he sent me free tubes!"
C'mon guys, it's easy math. 8)
Learn at the feet of the master! :bowdown:
-
"Check it out Babe; I sent a donation to this audio guy's charity and he sent me free tubes!"
C'mon guys, it's easy math. 8)
This sounded familiar. ;)
-
Scott,
If I may ask, where did you get that Damascus Santoku and how much?
Thanks,
Hugh
-
Scott,
If I may ask, where did you get that Damascus Santoku and how much?
Thanks,
Hugh
Scott sent me this link.
They're $80, but are currently sold out.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/makudawh2sa.html
-
I've sent an email to ChefKnivesToGo asking if they expect any more in the near future.
There are some decent knives with excellent steel at Japan Woodworker. I've used this inexpensive knife for several years and gotten good service from it. https://www.japanwoodworker.com/products/7-1-2-satsuma-knife-tosagata?via=58923198617070231a000047%2C5893b7ac617070454900f966%2C5894aee06170706c3c038f6f
It is rustic, blade heavy, and not the greatest fit, but the steel is superb. I think I gave $27 for it.
The damascus knife we have been discussing in another level in refinement, and is a quality professional tool.
-
There are some decent knives with excellent steel at Japan Woodworker. I've used this inexpensive knife for several years and gotten good service from it. https://www.japanwoodworker.com/products/7-1-2-satsuma-knife-tosagata?via=58923198617070231a000047%2C5893b7ac617070454900f966%2C5894aee06170706c3c038f6f
It is rustic, blade heavy, and not the greatest fit, but the steel is superb. I think I gave $27 for it.
The damascus knife we have been discussing in another level in refinement, and is a quality professional tool.
You are so right about the Tosagata knives. They are not aesthetically refined and beautiful knives, but their steel is excellent, especially so for the price. IMO they've got to be one of the best value knives going. They're easy to sharpen and really hold their edge. It's been my experience that their steel doesn't stain as easily as many other carbon steel knives too.
-
Scott sent me this link.
They're $80, but are currently sold out.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/makudawh2sa.html
Thanks Bob.
-
I've sent an email to ChefKnivesToGo asking if they expect any more in the near future.
There are some decent knives with excellent steel at Japan Woodworker. I've used this inexpensive knife for several years and gotten good service from it. https://www.japanwoodworker.com/products/7-1-2-satsuma-knife-tosagata?via=58923198617070231a000047%2C5893b7ac617070454900f966%2C5894aee06170706c3c038f6f
It is rustic, blade heavy, and not the greatest fit, but the steel is superb. I think I gave $27 for it.
The damascus knife we have been discussing in another level in refinement, and is a quality professional tool.
Thanks Scott.
-
You're welcome Hugh.
We're trying to spend your money.
Is it working?
-
We're getting there Bob. :thumb:
-
8)
-
The owner of ChefKnivesToGo emailed to say he expects another order in about a month. I signed up to be notified when they arrive. He also said the word is getting out about them and they are moving pretty quickly. If they are like the first batch, they'll sell out in a week or two.
-
For anyone interested, the knife that Bob and I have been bragging on is back in stock... for hours or days- I doubt weeks. For $80 you can't beat it... high quality at an intro level.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/makudawh2sa.html
-
For anyone interested, the knife that Bob and I have been bragging on is back in stock... for hours or days- I doubt weeks. For $80 you can't beat it... high quality at an intro level.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/makudawh2sa.html
:thumb:
-
Sold out. Again.
-
I have the Dojo Hayashi AS Nakiri 165 that I purchased from CKTG a while ago. It is very much an entry level Japanese knife, but the steel (Aogami Super) is absolutely excellent and because it is a laminate sandwich steel construction, I really do not have to be that careful in cleaning up after or keeping it dry right away.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/dojousuba165mm.html
-
I have the Dojo Hayashi AS Nakiri 165 that I purchased from CKTG a while ago. It is very much an entry level Japanese knife, but the steel (Aogami Super) is absolutely excellent and because it is a laminate sandwich steel construction, I really do not have to be that careful in cleaning up after or keeping it dry right away.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/dojousuba165mm.html
That looks like a nice knife for the cash, and with stainless cladding I'm not surprised it's easy maintenance. Always wanted to try an AS steel knife to compare edge retention to my Shirogami blades.
-
Sold out. Again.
Looks like it may be back in stock. Tempted. May get it as a wedding gift for a nephew.
****Edit****
Went ahead and ordered it. I'll decide if it's a gift or a keeper when it gets here. :icon_twisted:
-
Nice, keep us posted :thumb:
-
They've also got a Makoto damascus White#2 210mm gyuto for $99 that looks like a great deal and doesn't stay in stock for long. I've been telling myself I don't need another knife, but :icon_twisted: someone keeps whispering in my ear. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/madaw2gy21.html
I really don't need it. I've got old Altecs to rebuild, my favorite Classical record store is liquidating at 1/2 off, getting crossover work done next week... money seems to be evaporating from my wallet.
-
I've just received my JCK Original Kagayaki CarboNext Series Gyuto! This is officially my first Japanese kitchen knife. I can't wait to lop off a chunk of a finger with this thing! Boy...is this thing S...H...A...R...P!!!!! The hair just boiled off my forearm when I slid this blade ever so carefully over it. Impressive, Grasshopper!!!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172003)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172004)
-
It's a 240 mm. length blade. It has a very solid feel and great workmanship. Many thanks to Rob Babcock for his suggestions. He's seen a Japanese knife or two in his day.
-
I can't wait to lop off a chunk of a finger with this thing!
Take pictures! :thumb:
Nice knife Ed, very cool!
-
Hi. My name is Scott, and I'm a Japanese knife user. Welcome to the users support group.
Your knife seems to be a nice high chromium semi stainless, a step up from the typical VG-10 knives in it's price range. It might be a bit harder to sharpen than what's currently in the kitchen. I read the blade is asymmetrically sharpened. If so, you will have a decision to make the first time you put it on a stone. Probably around 15* is a good angle per side, but I can't find much info on that steel. There are lots of us here that can give plenty of useless free advice. :thumb:
-
When purchasing this knife I noticed an ES (extra sharp) option. I checked that box. Then, I was asked if I were right handed or left? I'm a righty. The knife I received has a very shallow grind on the right side. My Lanski sharpening "system" (works great on my Benchmade Adamas 275B) goes to a 17degree angle, and that isn't even close. I might have to invest in some Japanese whetstones!
-
Should you choose to keep the original angles, and decide to get a few stones, then something like these cheap guides work well. For just over 10 bucks they are quite effective and will let you put different angles on different sides.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anguforshst.html
-
Pretty handy guide set, and not expensive at all! They also have a sharpening stone , an Imanishi Two Sided 1K/6K Stone, on that same page as the angle guides. What would I use for this Japanese knife?
-
Sharpening is another can of worms. What is your current skill level? Are you comfortable with sharpening free hand to get a knife to shave arm hair or slice paper? The answer to your question can be a complete sharpening system, or as simple as a combination stone.
As I mentioned, I really don't know your steel. But a 500, 1500, 3000 set of stones would cover a lot of bases. The steel might take an edge up to 8 000 but probably not much more... and then there are strops and diamond paste.
IF this knife has as much chromium in it as the speculations I've read, I think a 1000/6000 is too big of a gap on a tough steel. You might look for an additional stone to fill the gap. Also, stones will eventually need to be flattened. I'm fond of the Shapton stones because they are slow to dish and don't have to be soaked before using.
There aren't many reviews of this stone, but I like the 1000/3000 gap better than the 1K/6K stone.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ceraxcombo1k3k.html
-
The CarboNext knives are a screaming bargain! I only wish they offered a line of CarboNext knives with Wa handles. If you like the Yo-style (ie Western handled) then there's no much need to spend any more. I have a lot of Japanese knives, partly because I'm a chef and partly because I'm a knife nerd. If you really want a laser (ie a super thin blade) then these aren't the last word but if you're not looking for Kate-Moss-thin then they're terrific. Whatever the steel actually is it seems to be a tool steel. It will patina and even develop red rust if you abuse it. It seems to be finer grained than VG-10 and seems to have less Tungsten (that's just a guess on my part) as it doesn't hold the burr as tenaciously as even VG-10. I think it's an outstanding steel. For all the talk about the new Super Steels there are plenty of great steels that have been around for a good while. I do like playing with the new SoTA toys but for the money it's hard to beat the Kagayaki.
-
Rob, what would you recommend for sharpening stones? I'm really in the dark with my advice. All I could find on it indicated high Cr content.
On further research, some speculate it's a variation of D2 tool steel, which is consistent with the guys that say it's a bit tougher to sharpen than VG10, but keeps an edge better.
-
This is my personal nakiri.
After 10 years of service.
(Nakiri can be spelled with an "a" or "i". Depending whether you lived in the northern Japan or southern Japan. )
The first pic was my original photo of knife, when it was posted 10 years ago.
The second was a photo made today..
I build my knives to last a lifetime. And all are guaranteed for life. No matter how they fail.
I've forged/sold knives since 2001.. studied knife making since 1982. My knives are made of high carbon tool steel and ball bearing steel.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195046)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195048)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195049)
This post was just for information purposes only, it was not made for soliciting new business.
Thank you for looking..
-
I will be a customer of yours... one of these days, when the proper light shines on me.
-
Hey Bladesmith... That looks just like the one you made for me.
We love using it everyday... and have a high pride of ownership! Custom made by an artisan in the USA w American Steel.
-
Hey Bladesmith, What's with all the forging shows on TV????
-
Hey Bladesmith... That looks just like the one you made for me.
We love using it everyday... and have a high pride of ownership! Custom made by an artisan in the USA w American Steel.
Lokie,
Thanks , I'm glad you are happy with the knife.
V...
-
Hey Bladesmith, What's with all the forging shows on TV????
Stlrman,
Im not sure, when they first started, I watched one episode years ago. Then I've never watched another.
You must aneal the steel at some point, heat it up again, then heat treat it with lower temperatures. To get it at the right hardness. I dont think its possible to do in one hour.. it's not possible to make quality steel in one hour, if that's what they are insinuating.. but, I'm not in Hollywood. Nor, do I have the magic of Hollywood.. :scratch:
V...
-
A few years ago while we were touring Jinmen Island (also spelled Kinmen), we visited a workshop that takes unexploded artillery shells (explosives had already been removed!) and turns them into knives. Check this out:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195089)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195091)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195092)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195093)
-
Im not sure what kind of steel incases a mortar or shell round..🤔🤔
-
Rusty steel, apparently. :lol:
I hadn't thought about this till now. I don't know either. I imagine it needn't be the best quality steel considering the artillery round's manufacturer only wants the thing to explode and kill people. Our knife has not yet been used. It's pretty enough that my wife isn't inclined to use it, but I'd like to give it a whirl.
Thousands of these knives have been produced over a couple decades. Surely, someone must know something about the steel. :scratch:
-
It appears that the shells were for Propaganda. The shells are of Chinese Origin.
"Wu says unlike regular shells, which are designed to shatter into killing fragments, propaganda shells are ideal for making knives because they are made of high-grade steel, designed to split neatly open and demoralise the opponent."
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/taiwan/kincheng/shopping/maestro-wu-bombshell-steel-knives/a/poi-sho/1358783/1327844
And for the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSHdl5cunw
And here is a better video. Coal in the forge and a air trip hammer, I am in love. https://vimeo.com/95236049
Fascinating.
Alan
-
Count me in on this thread...time to start at page 1.
The 210mm nakiri is my latest addition. It's a beast and I love it. Think I'm done with Toyamas...
300mm suji
270mm honyaki gyuto
240mm kasumi gyuto
210mm kasumi nakiri
150mm kasumi petty
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47975967256_8d211a6ed1_c.jpg)
-
Nice!
What wood is that board?
I've got a bunch of white oak from a recent project, and have been thinking about making an endgrain board from the extras.
I'm imagining that's about what it would look like.
-
It appears that the shells were for Propaganda. The shells are of Chinese Origin.
"Wu says unlike regular shells, which are designed to shatter into killing fragments, propaganda shells are ideal for making knives because they are made of high-grade steel, designed to split neatly open and demoralise the opponent."
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/taiwan/kincheng/shopping/maestro-wu-bombshell-steel-knives/a/poi-sho/1358783/1327844
And for the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsSHdl5cunw
And here is a better video. Coal in the forge and a air trip hammer, I am in love. https://vimeo.com/95236049
Fascinating.
Alan
You're awesome, Alan! :thumb:
-
Is there any info on the paperwork with the knife?
And your appears to be a Damascus blade?
A
-
Cool recycling :thumb:
-
It appears that the shells were for Propaganda. The shells are of Chinese Origin.
"Wu says unlike regular shells, which are designed to shatter into killing fragments, propaganda shells are ideal for making knives because they are made of high-grade steel, designed to split neatly open and demoralise the opponent."
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/taiwan/kincheng/shopping/maestro-wu-bombshell-steel-knives/a/poi-sho/1358783/1327844
I was scratching my head wondering why it would be demoralizing for a shell to split open but, perhaps obviously, the idea is that when they open, they spread a batch of leaflets. It also seems that they don't so much "split" as blow open via a small fused secondary charge. Hmm, doesn't help with the type of steel does it.
http://www.psywarrior.com/PropArtilleryShell.html
-
I was scratching my head wondering why it would be demoralizing for a shell to split open but, perhaps obviously, the idea is that when they open, they spread a batch of leaflets. It also seems that they don't so much "split" as blow open via a small fused secondary charge. Hmm, doesn't help with the type of steel does it.
http://www.psywarrior.com/PropArtilleryShell.html
I am not sure.. it probably is a harder casing, meant to just split, verses shatter into pieces. Your guess is good as any. I was never an explosive expert..
:popcorn:
-
I was scratching my head wondering why it would be demoralizing for a shell to split open but, perhaps obviously, the idea is that when they open, they spread a batch of leaflets. It also seems that they don't so much "split" as blow open via a small fused secondary charge. Hmm, doesn't help with the type of steel does it.
http://www.psywarrior.com/PropArtilleryShell.html
I belive they might have been full or leaflets or propaganda?
Alan
-
Old truck and car springs are good.
They are made of 5160 spring steel.
Some Smith's study and made knives from them and do a very good job. But, that is the trick. It's not that any one high carbon steel is the best. Its about being the student of one kind of steel, and mastering that kind.. that is what makes a great smith.. I studied in Japan for 2 years, studied metallurgy for one year.and I have failed a thousand times. And I've stuck with 01 tool steel and ball bearing steel. I like them both. But, again, I have mastered them. 01 tool steel is brilliant, once you know what you are doing..
(I'll stop rabbling now..)
If you get some old truck springs, they are great to make knives out of..just saying..
V...
-
I think the old Ruana knives were made from leaf springs. They're sought after more than the new ones by the son who is still making knives.
-
Old truck and car springs are good.
They are made of 5160 spring steel.
Some Smith's study and made knives from them and do a very good job. But, that is the trick. It's not that any one high carbon steel is the best. Its about being the student of one kind of steel, and mastering that kind.. that is what makes a great smith.. I studied in Japan for 2 years, studied metallurgy for one year.and I have failed a thousand times. And I've stuck with 01 tool steel and ball bearing steel. I like them both. But, again, I have mastered them. 01 tool steel is brilliant, once you know what you are doing..
(I'll stop rabbling now..)
If you get some old truck springs, they are great to make knives out of..just saying..
V...
Keep your eyes peeled for news stories wrt a rash of old truck thievery.... :lol:
-
Personally, I'd love to hear more ramblings about the craft.
-
I think the old Ruana knives were made from leaf springs. They're sought after more than the new ones by the son who is still making knives.
5160 spring steel was a big hit for years. And its still a good steel. It can be made very tough.. and some are doing very well forging it. Ruan.. has a history.. longer than mine..
Knife makers seem to peak at a point In there lives. Then fade away, its hard to hand down the legacy and experience..because the newer generations might be interested in something that has more reward financially..
some people get a special, hand crafted knife, made by a master.. and its handed down. Thru generations..
To me, it's a good thing..
V..
-
Knife makers seem to peak at a point In there lives. Then fade away, its hard to hand down the legacy ...
V..
Interesting, any thoughts on why that might be the case? It seems to suggest subtle judgement or skill is lost at some point ... ?
-
Interesting, any thoughts on why that might be the case? It seems to suggest subtle judgement or skill is lost at some point ... ?
Well, Smith's peak, then go as far as they can with there skills.. a good Smith doesn't have many years of high quality production after they peak. Maybe like other artist, painters or sculptors.. it's part of the way things seem to be in life. They usually end up starving artist.
Some try to go into large production. Making mediocre products in mass quantities. They look for great financial gain..
V..
-
Tricky, so as with say, painting [art], it's an individual skill and not something that, even a small support team, is going to produce at the same standard as the "master".
Sort of explains why a rather expensive and apparently well made damascus blade I bought some time ago is a disappointment where a another japanese knife I bought from a little known source is magnificent.
-
"Bump"
So I've expanded my "collection", from one knives, to two! :lol:
I've had the big one three years, the baby came via the stork (USPS) today.
Makoto White #2 Kuro Damascus Santoku 170mm (right)
Anryu Kurouchi White #2 Damascus Petty 75mm (left)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/99272316_1155227931500984_5616599866227556352_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=oMUwVrOD0jUAX8uc4wM&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=5649166687c79d540731c5fd6d2e244c&oe=5EED49E4)[/quote]
-
Shun doesn't get a lot of love among collectors of Japanese knives... too commercial, overpriced, etc. And I admit, I like the look of my more rustic knives, but the truth is I reach for a Shun utility quite a bit. The VG10 steel isn't the latest and greatest, but they do it well and it holds it's edge for a good while.
I was looking for a knife for my daughter, so I looked on ebay at Shuns, to find a guy that seems to resell lots of them with broken tips or chipped edges.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CZcAAOSw3Ppe8E5e/s-l1600.jpg)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JKQAAOSwBrhe8E5a/s-l1600.jpg)
Got a deal, spent 10 minutes reforming the tip, another 15-20 to reset the edge and sharpen, and it's better than new.
-
Anyone try one of these Vietnamese leaf spring knives? I’m tempted to give it a shot given the cost compared with Japanese knives.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/dalespgy21.html
https://youtu.be/DcHewz0LJlU
-
Bob in St. Louis pointed those out to me a month or two ago, as he had a little cash burning a hole in his pocket. He ended up spending a bit more and buying Japanese. They look interesting, nice handles, and spring steel makes a decent enough knife. But I'd bet they are highly variable compared to their more expensive Japanese competition.
-
Yip, I was very close. Had my finger hovering over the [add to cart] button.
Ended up doing more window shopping and stuck with the Japanese. But yea.... I'm intrigued.
Ultimately, I stuck with the "art and romance" of the Jap style. The "hack it with a sledgehammer" Vietnam thing kinda turned me off a bit.
I tend to be drawn to folks that have a passion for what they do, so that was my guiding light.
Although, I only used it once, I'm VERY happy with my choice.
EDIT: There's a video on the CKTG page that shows how they make the knives. It's pretty barbaric compared to the Jap style. For what it's worth....
-
What did you end up getting?
I'm loving my Masakage Koishi gyuto.
-
What did you end up getting?
I'm loving my Masakage Koishi gyuto.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ankusupe75.html
-
Anryu is an excellent artisan. Fantastic knives!
-
I expect it will serve you well. :thumb:
-
Excellent! Sounds like you guys approve of my choice. That makes me happy! :lol:
-
Looking for recommendations for a knife type that works really well on tomatoes and onions (in 1" up to 3" diameter range)
I've had a Shun Classic Serrated Utility Knife, 6" for nearly 5 years now. Their description reads; "slim, serrated blade cuts cleanly and efficiently without tearing or squashing delicate foods like tomatoes and baked goods" It does work great on Tomatoes, Limes, Lemons in the 1"-3" range. Any larger diameter and I'll use one of my Chefs knifes.
The Shun has worked great over the past 5 years, but the serrations are nearly worn away and Shun does not sharpen the serrated knives. My notion is much of this knives success has to do with the serrations getting through the skins of tomatoes and onions. I've done my best to tune them up over the years, but its time to move on to try something else, or just get the current equivalent replacement.
In some quick reading, I wonder if a Nakiris type works well on tomatoes? (since designed specifically for working with vegetables) I didn't read any notes, or reviews on the Nakiris
working with tomatoes so I am not certain if its a good fit.
Knife types I'm currently considering (in 165mm range);
>Nakiris
>Kiritsuke
>Slicing knife
>another Serrated utility knife (replacement)
Other knives on hand in the stable include;
Anryu Blue #2 Hammered Petty 150mm
Itto-Ryu Hammered White #2 Santoku 165mm
Anryu Blue #2 Hammered Gyuto 210mm
Shun Classic paring 4"
Shun Classic Chef's 10"
I had high hopes the Itto-Ryu Santoku would work well on the tomatoes and onions, but the hammered blade seems to be too thick and interferes with thin slicing, as well as penetrating the tomatoes skins.
Any task specific favorite recommendations out there?
Thanks in advance
Kenreau
-
You already have several knives that should handle tomatoes with ease. The chef knives and the larger petty should do the job. What is your sharpening routine?
As far as nakiris, they do a great job both slicing and dicing. One of my least expensive knives is a Tojiro White #2 nakiri... it gets screaming sharp and works very well.
This knife will do any of the one handed trick cuts you can pull up on youtube. I think they're fifty bucks. Takes a great edge, but doesn't hold it long- needs stropping if you use it all day.
(https://images.yswcdn.com/-6709878151531560371-ql-85/800/600/ay/chefknivestogo/tojiro-shirogami-nakiri-165mm-88.png)
-
That looks like fun!
-
Thanks, that Nakiri looks like something low risk to try out. I use an EdgePro sharpening system and just ran all the knives through it. They were getting dull and that sharpening certainly did wonders. I need to do that more often.
You already have several knives that should handle tomatoes with ease. The chef knives and the larger petty should do the job. What is your sharpening routine?
As far as nakiris, they do a great job both slicing and dicing. One of my least expensive knives is a Tojiro White #2 nakiri... it gets screaming sharp and works very well.
This knife will do any of the one handed trick cuts you can pull up on youtube. I think they're fifty bucks. Takes a great edge, but doesn't hold it long- needs stropping if you use it all day.
-
Your EdgePro takes all the guesswork out of it. If you can go to up to 4000 grit, all your knives will slice tomatoes. Take it up to 8000K and they cut to the touch. Strop with leather and diamond spray and they just fall into little bits when the tomato sees the knife coming. :thumb:
I also use an EdgePro when the knives get dull, but I touch up with a 5000 Shapton to a 15K Shapton, or strop on leather.... and tomatoes are usually what tell me it's time to touch up..
-
Ok, thanks, I'll try out those polishing levels. To date I've used the 2000 tape, but nothing finer. Those must be like a mirror finish level.
Thanks again
Kenreau
Your EdgePro takes all the guesswork out of it. If you can go to up to 4000 grit, all your knives will slice tomatoes. Take it up to 8000K and they cut to the touch. Strop with leather and diamond spray and they just fall into little bits when the tomato sees the knife coming. :thumb:
I also use an EdgePro when the knives get dull, but I touch up with a 5000 Shapton to a 15K Shapton, or strop on leather.... and tomatoes are usually what tell me it's time to touch up..
-
A 2000 tape is certainly fine enough to easily cut tomatoes. What is your starting stone? Could you have moved up to quickly????
Most sharpeners feel for a burr before moving up. I usually don't- I count strokes instead... 8,5,3,2,1 on a side.
-
Late to the game on this one, but just bought my first entry level knife from chefknivestogo: Tojiro DP Gyuto 210mm.
I've had Wusthof's for years but recently broke one so thought I'd explore this alternate option. Chefknivestogo are great to deal with, and I'm impressed with the first purchase - one of the reviews on their website says 'the knife is so sharp I can shave with it' and I concur, I thought my Wusthof was sharp but this takes it to the next level (hifi speak).
So thanks everyone for the recommendations.
Also interesting that the same guys that are into hifi are also into grilling, coffee etc etc....must be the OCD traits coming out :icon_lol:
-
The Tojiro DP line will cut much more easily and keep an edge much longer than your Wusthof. But be aware there is a trade off. It will also not handle abuse as well. The Japanese push the VG 10 steel much harder than their European competitors. The higher Rockwell rating comes with a greater tendency to chip, so be aware you have a more delicate blade. No throwing it into the sink, no cutting up to bones. Hard squash require a firm hand as you don't want the blade to twist during the cut. If you have used a steel to bring back your edge on your German knives, you may find stropping on leather to be more gentle-although I've not heard others mention it, I've chipped edges with a steel.
But, your new knife will cut sooo much more easily, and will take a much more refined edge. I think the DP line is sharpened to 15* per side compared to the Wusthof 22*, so you'll need to modify your sharpening a bit.
Overall, the Tojiro DP 210 Gyuto is a great introduction into Japanese knives. Congrats on your purchase. :thumb:
-
I haven't ventured down the path of sharpening - I'm intimidated by it and looks like it requires a skill set I don't have. I bought the Tojiro Pro sharpener :oops:
-
I haven't ventured down the path of sharpening - I'm intimidated by it and looks like it requires a skill set I don't have. I bought the Tojiro Pro sharpener :oops:
Not a problem. Will sharpen for vinyl. :thumb:
The Tojiro sharpener seems to get good reviews, so it may be exactly what you need. And there is a lot to be said about keeping things easy and simple.
Looking at that sharpener, it has a #320 grit wheel ( coarse) and a #1000 grit wheel (medium). I would use a 320 to reprofile a blade, as in having to reshape the blade to take out a bad chip, but not what you'd want to use in regular sharpening. Use your 1000 grit for most touch ups and stay away from the 320 until it just won't sharpen with the 1000. I can't find at what angle the wheels are set-- I'd hope it matches your knife. If you find that you can't keep it sharp to you liking, just pay the shipping and I'll sharpen it for you. Or I think Rob sharpens professionally.
-
I wonder what his knife is sharpened to at this point. Meaning, if they shipped it sharped to 5k, and he sharpens it to 1k, he's going to become frustrated.
Anyway, enjoy the knife, looks like a dandy!
-
What is it with tomatoes and knives? They look so innocent and yet they're demons at juuuust taking the edge off :lol:
-
Incoming. Purchased a set of Kochi knives from John Broida @ Japanese Knife Imports in LA. Looking forward to wet stone knife sharpening on these high quality knives. They'll be replacing my aging Tojori stainless knife set.
NB
-
My friend is making some really awesome pattern-steel knives. Yes, she forges the billets herself!
https://eatingtools.com/blogs/eliane-leblanc-massachusetts
-
Incoming. Purchased a set of Kochi knives from John Broida @ Japanese Knife Imports in LA. Looking forward to wet stone knife sharpening on these high quality knives. They'll be replacing my aging Tojori stainless knife set.
NB
I looked over those knives... only saw one comment about chipping. Most simply say "carbon" steel. I'm guessing they are White #2 as it's a common knife steel in Japan, easy to sharpen to extremely sharp edges. There are steels that hold an edge longer, but not many that sharpen as well.
But who knows. Japanese knives come in probably 10-12 carbon steels, each with their particular character.
Let us know how you like them after several months and a couple of sharpening sessions go by. New knives are like Christmas morning. :thumb:
-
My wife and I just returned from a wonderful 3-week vacation to Japan. Of course on my list of must buy things are Japanese knives. We ended up buying a santoku and nakiri. I had my list of stores that I wanted to visit including Seisuke, Shun, Kamata and Tsubaya. On our second day in Tokyo we visited the Senso-ji temple in Asakusa and little did I know that Seisuke has a large store there. The first knife purchased is a Yoshimi Kato R2/SG2 Damascus bunka 165mm.
We returned to Tokyo for our final 4 nights in Japan and visited Tsukiji. I still don’t know why I ate some of things there. Anyway, we visited the Tsukiji branch Seisuke and purchased our Yu Kurosaki Fujin SPG2 (R2) 165mm nakiri with olive tree and turquoise ferrule handle. We are excited to use these knives, and I’m sure they’ll last for many years to come.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256832)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256833)
Both knives
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256834)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256836)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256837)
-
Wow. Those are nice knives. I've got a Santoku by Yu Kurosaki's brother.... one of his early, basic offerings. It's so balanced and light. Just a joy.
And I'm a big fan of nakiris every time I chop veggies.
Sounds like a great trip. :thumb: