AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Reviews of Accessories => Topic started by: byteme on 2 Aug 2003, 02:18 am
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This is going to be a relatively brief review of some things I’ve picked up and installed over the last two weeks. Prior to these purchases my power setup was as follows:
Two dedicated 20amp lines each terminated with P&S hospital grade 20amp outlets. One for digital one for analog. Power treatment stuff consisted of Vans Evers Clean Line digital Jr. and Tripp Lite isobar for digital side. PS Audio UO High Current and Ernies PoBox for the analog side. Odyssey amp directly into the wall.
With this I had a bit of hiss audible from 3-4 feet but barely noticeable from the listening position. I also had an odd buzz (not ground loop hum) when nothing but the amp was on that went away as soon as I turned the preamp on. Very odd. On the recommendation of Pyschicanimal I picked up a couple of OneAC isolation transformers off of eBay. A CP1103 3 amp and CP1102 2 amp. The 3 amp I have into the wall and it powers Transport, DAC, DVD player and Tripplite isobar for the rest of the digital stuff (changer, sat. box) The 1102 plugs into the wall and powers only the preamp. Upon first listen to these I sold the Vans Evers. These things are awesome! Especially considering I got both for less than $60 shipped. Things were a noticeable notch quieter.
Also on Psychic’s suggestion I ordered some Hubbell 5262 and 5362 double cryo’d outlets from Virtual Dynamics. 3 5262 (15 amp) outlets for the OneACs and two 5362 (20 amp) outlets for the wall. I have to admit, I was more than skeptical about gains cryo’d outlets could produce – especially at $30 a pop. Today I had a chance to open up the OneACs and swap outlets, while in there I upgraded the jumpers between the two 1103 outlets to higher gauge wire, cleaned everything, cut off the spade terminations on all of the wire going to the outlets and progolded everything. I also used blu-tac equivalent on the face of the outlets that came almost in contact with the cases and also on the “’mickey mouse ears” on the top and bottom of the outlets so they wouldn’t vibrate or come in contact with the case at all. I then replaced the P&S wall outlets with the 20 amp stuff and again, re-cut and stripped the wires and progolded them.
I was absolutely NOT prepared for what happened when I plugged everything in. Silence. From EVERYWHERE, listening position, 5 feet, 3 feet, 1 inch. Just quiet. With only the Stratos powered on, quiet. With all the 2 channel gear on, quiet. With all the HT stuff on, quiet. Get the idea? So, how was it once music is on? As you would expect, quieter backgrounds and more detail, but also, more emotion, more dynamics, more detail and clarity.
If you are, or even if you aren’t in the market for power conditioning look into this. For less than $200 I improved my system more than I thought it could have been with something so simple. The only thing you have to be careful about is that you don’t “overdrive” the amp rating of the OneACs. For anything but an amp or a receiver you shouldn’t have a problem. I continue to follow the manufacturer’s instructions for amps – they go right into the wall (two via the PS Audio) so this isn’t even an issue. Get one for your digital side and one for analog, sit back and be wowed!
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What--no replies yet? Ah!, one is supposed to spend a lot of $$$ to get proper filtration, I see...
Well, the answer is NO :nono:
I have seen the insides of the Vans Evers Digital Jr and let me tell you--it's a joke :jester:
Truth is cryo'ed outlets are THE most cost effective improvement in an audio system
Where's Eric the Red?
Where's Nathan?
Where's Kimosabee?
:peek:
Yeah, right.
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What--no replies yet? Ah!, one is supposed to spend a lot of $$$ to get proper filtration, I see...
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The fact no one has replied doesn't justify the conclusion that members are saying proper filtration has to be expensive. byteme's review seems sensible and might well lead members to check out isolation transformers or cryo'd outlets. Part of its appeal is its moderation--"If you are, or even if you aren’t in the market for power conditioning look into this. For less than $200 I improved my system more than I thought it could have been with something so simple."
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I installed cryoed outlets and noticed a substantial improvement. Bill Laurent at 8th Nerve shared some outlet tweaks with me that take 2 minutes and will improve things another 10% and is free. I am sworn to secrecy but you can ask him at the 8th Nerve room.
Is that the kind of non expensive tweak you mean?
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I am sworn to secrecy but you can ask him at the 8th Nerve room.
Oh it's a secret.... :scratch:
I'll tell you one: those Salamander clone racks 8th nerve sells won't get you far... :nono: Keep it a secret.
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I guess most folks have checked out for the summer...
For those still around, I am also a very satisified Oneac transformer owner. I have two 3 amp models. One for digital and the other for preamp and phono stage. They were less than $50 each off Ebay over a year ago.
They make one of the most instantly noticeable improvements of any component I've installed.
I'm gonna have to try the cryo outlet thing on them when I get out of my lazy mode.
I should add that the Dezorel combined with the Oneac's made everything better.
Psychic, I hope you are taking care of that Dezorel - you have had it for FREE! I don't anticipate doing anything with selling it until Fall. No one seems to be interested right now.
Thanks for the detailed post, Byteme.
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Jerry,
When you say Oneac "transformer" are you referring to what they call a line conditioner? What model do you have, or would you know?
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I don't know the model off hand. They are at home, and I am at work. :cry:
The Oneac is a balanced isolation transformer used primarily for industrial / laboratory applications, I believe, such as powering electron microscopes, which need clean, grunge-free power. I guess you can find various used models from time to time on ebay. They are not attractive, but they really work.
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Jerry,
No problem. I was really rather blown away how much difference a little cleaning, some Progold, Dynamat extreme and the cryo'd outlets made. As I said, before, when the preamp was off and the amp on, you could hear a buzz coming from the speakers. Sometimes it was rather loud, usually later at night which was odd I thought. However, now, just silence and much greater dynamics! I wonder what better power cords would do??!?!??! :o
It's worth it.
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Jerry,
When you say Oneac "transformer" are you referring to what they call a line conditioner? What model do you have, or would you know?
Josh, the 1103 is the model you're after if you want the 3 amp version. It's not a line conditioner, although it does that too. As Jerry mentioned it's an isolation transformer made to totally isolate everything behind it from everything in front of it AND put out clean as hell power.
There are two on ebay right now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3041076720&category=20315 (been there forever, in my opinion they are asking too much)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3040888727&category=20315
Oh, also, on my 1103, when I opened it up again to put in the Dynamat Extreme I took out the power switch and just ran the juice right in from the wall to the transformer. It's easy to do and pulls a switch out of the chain, which has gotta be good!
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I have one of those, (maybe not the same mfg.) in my basement. It was pulled of of a large microfilm viewer/printer. It has an audible hum, but keeps the power quite level. I took it out of my system, due to some comments that "since it is made for copiers, not sensitive audio gear, it might be detremental. Any thoughts on this? If I should be using it, how do I get rid of the hum?
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Ton,
I've heard that some of them do humm, and if I'm not mistaken that's why OneAC is preferred over some of the other iso transformer makers, they are quiet! The humm is probably transformer humm and therefor I think you're stuck with it. Maybe you could unload that one on ebay and use the proceeds to pick up a OneAC?
As for "not being for sensitive audio gear" that's bull. If it can provide clean power then why not? Whoever told you that must have spend over $1k on some Tice product! Like I said, this it clearly (no pun intended) the best money I've spent on power and power conditioning, without question.
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Thanks Byteme,
One more question. Does anyone know how large of one I would need for a computer? I see that they have a 6.7amp model which would be good for preamps and such but I am not sure how many amps are needed for a computer.
I live in an apartment where I am sure all the plugs are on the same circuit. I would like to isolate some of the noisy things like computers from dumping garbage onto the line that my stereo is on.
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I use a ONEAC 1107 for my computer. Its rating is 6.25 amperes. Sweet.
The ONEACs are musically benign because they're essentially a C-core transformer and capacitors used as parallel filters.
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http://www.virtualdynamics.ca/products/HWS/BKR
No exp. with these, but looks interesting: seems like it'd be best to clean up as many links in the electrical chain as possible?????
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FYI
The one I have is from IEPS Electronic & is the 12 Amp model.
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I just picked up a pair of OneAC CP1110's - rated at 8.4 amps. They are very quiet. I can feel a slight hum when I touch the case, but can't hear it at all unless I stick my head next to the units. I plugged my digital (CD and DVD) into one, and my preamp into the other. The amps are plugged into the wall. I have to be careful with preliminary assessments (I got them last night), but I swear another layer of grunge and digital glare has been removed. And I did have an API power wedge before (I'm using it now only to isolate my subwoofer's Behringer parametric EQ). Sweet!
This may be one of the great bargains in audio. I am going to have a hard time justifying spending more on power conditioning in the future - my API was several hundred dollars!
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This may be one of the great bargains in audio. I am going to have a hard time justifying spending more on power conditioning in the future - my API was several hundred dollars!..
Couldn't agree more! Better conditioning, better protection, lower noise floor and 10% of the price of most others! Even after you tweak them with vibration damping and cryo'd outlets (possibly even upgraded power cord) you can't touch them for cost/performance.
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Couldn't agree more! Better conditioning, better protection, lower noise floor and 10% of the price of most others! Even after you tweak them with vibration damping and cryo'd outlets (possibly even upgraded power cord) you can't touch them for cost/performance.
That is until you get a hold of bargain priced Clear Image T4 filters like I did...and a 2.6 KW Xentech Extreme isolation transformer for $70 including shipping! :mrgreen:
Definitely the ONEACs are the most cost effective filters out there, dollar for dollar. My 95 lb, 3000W ONEAC is pretty beefy and it filters hot. neutral and ground via capacitors. :D
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Psychic - you think upgraded power chords would help these at all? If so, which "flavor" CVH type cord would you use?
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Gents,
Many thanks for making me aware of the Oneac. I hadn't realized that what they were marketing as a power conditioner actually incorporated an isolation transformer. I've also learned, via the AudioAsylum, that some of the Powervar conditioners similarly incorporated isolation trans.
A couple of questions -
Has anyone compared a similarly rated Oneac to a Powervar (or others)?
Has anyone attempted to modify these units for balanced power?
Thanks,
Occam
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Just bought an 1102 and 1103... 20 and 30 bucks = $50 plus shipping. Hope it helps clean up my power a bit. I'll be running dedicated lines sometime in the next few months but, hope this helps with the line noise I have now.
Thanks for the info... I'll report my findings when I get them.
-Carl
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I've noticed more OneAC bidding activity on Ebay the last few days. I hope we don't end up jacking the price up! :roll:
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I've noticed more OneAC bidding activity on Ebay the last few days. I hope we don't end up jacking the price up! :roll:
:lol: Sorry man..... You can't stop people from driving up the price but, you can get in while the gettin's good. :lol:
I'll post that the results suck and that everyone lied about how good these things were... that'll help ;)
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I'll rephrase a question - On the Oneac's (Powervar's...) isolation transformer's secondaries, is there a (unused) center tap?
Are the isolation transformers toroidal of EI cored?
Thanks in advance
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Occam,
Sorry, haven't compared the Powervar to the Oneac. I've heard from other sources though that occasionally the Powervars can be a bit noisy. The Oneacs also seem to be more available.
No idea how you'd modify to balanced. Also, not familiar with the rephrasing of the question...Sorry!
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I noticed the additional bidding as *seemingly* a result of this thread. I know I bought a 1103, 1105 & 1107 based on this thread and so far I really like the results.
My wife really pushed me to set up our fishtank again which I had neglected intentionally because of all the noise it makes. The air pump especially is a big noise maker and its horrible effects can be heard through the speakers. However, in the distant past I had just turned it all off while listening, which is probably why I killed all the fish. Now, I just put a 1103 on the fishtank equipment and voila!
I was thinking of buying some for the fridge, dishwasher too!
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I was thinking of buying some for the fridge, dishwasher too!
Read my thread "Best upgrade ever: cryo'ed receptacle for my refrigerator" in the Audiogon archives.
Some people are using Highwire Wirewraps on their refrigerators with excellent results. Also, EMI modules can be used if the refrigerator is not in the same circuit as the audio system. These can be purchased in 15-20 amp versions for reasonable prices in the surplus market.
Here I am, giving unsolicited advice once more... :o
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At least it`s advise and not cynical saracastic BS! Damn it, there goes my impulsiveness again,, guess ain`t none of use are perfect! :wink: Regards,Robin
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Hey PA,
Is your 3,000watt ONEAC, like this one? on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3044770424&category=32830)
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OneAC has several different models of different power conditioners... Is the key difference among them package size, current capacity and voltage?
The one that Josh mentions seems to be a 220v model! :idea: It may be a bit large (physical dimensions) for me...
Assuming equal voltage rating, any one have an idea how the performance of an OneAC would compare to a balanced power supply?
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Hey PA,
Is your 3,000watt ONEAC, like this one? on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3044770424&category=32830)
Mine is a CB 2338, 220V in/110V out.
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OneAC has several different models of different power conditioners... Is the key difference among them package size, current capacity and voltage?
The one that Josh mentions seems to be a 220v model! :idea: It may be a bit large (physical dimensions) for me...
Assuming equal voltage rating, any one have an idea how the performance of an OneAC would compare to a balanced power supply?
No fact stated here, just my opinion Jay, but I doubt there`s any close comparison performance-wise, balanced power should be superior, especially sonicly. But for the cost difference, it better be! :lol: Regards, Robin
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I don't know if what Robin says is true because I have not compared the Oneac to a balanced unit but I will say that my CP1103, 1105 &1107 have made some serious improvements in my sound and seriously lowered my noise floor more than any other power product I have tried to date. Used in conjunction with my bybee power bar from bolder this works really really well. For the relatively little money I have spent (esp compared to hi-fi power equipment) I am seriously pleased!
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I am gratified that others are discovering the tremendous value and benefit these very inexpensive units provide. Me, psychic, and a few others took advantage of this opportunity well over a year ago, and tried to bring it to folks' attention on Harmonic Discord back then. It was greeted with some disbelief and ridicule. :nono:
I think part of the reason for the doubters is that the Powervar's were so damn cheap ($35 and $40) for my two units, and it's hard to convince someone that something so cheap can be so effective. Also, at the time, BPT was being heavily praised, and some folks were trying to defend BPT and the money they spent to purchase one. I have no criticism of BPT. It may be great and much better, but how painful can it be to fork down 50 bucks to give a Powervar/Oneac a try? :)
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I agree. I'm VERY happy I tried them and was able to sell some higher cost less effective gear. Since the original post I've damped the Oneac's with Dynamat Extreme and repalced the power cords on them with Flavor 2 equivalents. I wouldn't spend the time/money again on the power cord upgrade because I didn't notice any difference, however, they are SO good I just had to try and see if that made any difference.
Many thanks to those on the forum for the suggestion!
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I am gratified that others are discovering the tremendous value and benefit these very inexpensive units provide. Me, psychic, and a few others took advantage of this opportunity well over a year ago, and tried to bring it to folks' attention on Harmonic Discord back then. It was greeted with some disbelief and ridicule. :nono:
I think part of the reason for the doubters is that the Powervar's were so damn cheap ($35 and $40) for my two units, and it's hard to convince someone that something so cheap c ...
You know Jerry, it`s a down right shame that one of these units hasn`t found it`s way for review at 6 Moons, Positive Review, etc to help validate there effectiveness to the public. Hell, even the manufacturer`s won`t recommend their products for audio usage,,, everything but. What`s up with that? Aren`t they ignoring a potentially profitable market by not doing so? This are simple enough questions that have been asked before but I guess we`re not suppose to find AND document an economical component for the high end audio market. Who knows? :roll: Regards, Robin
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Hey folks,
What size/rating Oneac (watts/amps) would I need for a CD player only? I'm assuming one those 90 lb. honkers wouldn't be necessary...
Thanks,
Beez
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the 3amp one should do, although the 5amp one would give you a little more wiggle room if you decided to hook more up to it. (3amp = CP1103 for instance)
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Hey folks,
What size/rating Oneac (watts/amps) would I need for a CD player only? I'm assuming one those 90 lb. honkers wouldn't be necessary...
Thanks,
Beez
Figure to use no more than 50% of the transformer's maximum continuous amperage rating. That will keep the windings from saturating and thus causing severe distortion. Josh is correct, with a 3 amp unit you should be able to hook up DAC and transport and still have adequate headroom.
When you buy a used ONEAC you need to get canned air, contact cleaner plus enhancer (like ProGold) and clean up and protect all the contacts inside. 8)
Edit: I would keep digital components completely separate, so you don't need too much amperage. Two- three amp rating is plenty. Now the 3 amp and larger models have larger capacitors (wired in parallel accross the outlet(s) and have better noise reduction specs. I've opened quite a few of these units...
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I am gratified that others are discovering the tremendous value and benefit these very inexpensive units provide. Me, psychic, and a few others took advantage of this opportunity well over a year ago, and tried to bring it to folks' attention on Harmonic Discord back then. It was greeted with some disbelief and ridicule. :nono:
I think part of the reason for the doubters is that the Powervar's were so damn cheap ($35 and $40) for my two units, and it's hard to convince someone that something so cheap c ...
Well, some people get on track, some don't get it and introduce mockery and sarcasm. Some, like my friend Doug S. get some of it and call this a "tweak"! :roll:
Those who get it can reallize how inexpensive and how great of an improvement is brought by proper power delivery/noise control. It allows the system to operate effortlessly and becomes a stable operational platform. I have learned a lot this past year and a half due to being unemployed and then on a job that pays me to be on standby, whether I work or not. I have experimented with a lot of things and developed relationships with key people (like Dejan, Deano and Sean). There are specific changes that happen as this gets better and better but I will not post them. I already have e-mailed Jerry with some of my findings. Lak is fully aware, as he has been here several times and has had the opportunity to experiment in my system. He says that people don't understand what I'm trying to say--that this must be experienced. Well, he did make some serious changes in his power rig after starting to work with me and nowadays his setup is as close to perfect as it can get. :mrgreen:
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"That Thing You Do"?? Starred Tom Hanks as the manager of a Beatlesesque group named the "Oneders" (meant to be pronounced "Wonders" but invariably pronounced "o- NEED-ers" by emcees unfamiliar with the group).