[philipp]

Frank,
I'm curious. Which sugar pills do you recommend I swallow before evaluating your equipment? Would I hear a more vanishing noise floor and deeper blacks from maple syrup? Grade A or B? I don't feel like I'm getting everything I can from my system. Please reassure me!

[skrivis]

I'm still trying to figure out if Van Alstine is a German surname  

More likely Dutch. "von" would be the German equivalent.

[skrivis]

Frank,
I'm curious. Which sugar pills do you recommend I swallow before evaluating your equipment? Would I hear a more vanishing noise floor and deeper blacks from maple syrup? Grade A or B? I don't feel like I'm getting everything I can from my system. Please reassure me!

No, no, the sugar has to be processed first. I recommend a tot of nice, dark rum. (My favorite is Havana Club, but that's verboten in the US.)

The sugar works on your ears much better when it's been run through the little yeasties first.

[philipp]

Mmmm, that sounds tasty. I'll trade you a bottle for a 1M pair of Kimber PBRs. (I think it's PBR, the one that used to be the shielded PBJs.)

Seriously, though. I have heard the difference between interconnects but never had the meaning of that difference explained to my satisfaction until I started reading what Frank and a few other engineers had to say on the subject. Thanks Frank!

[skrivis]

RFI and 60 Hz can get into speaker wires, an easy cure is to chuck the wires into a drill and twist about 3-4 turns per foot for quite good shielding for this.

There's a good picture that will show you about what it looks like when twisted:



You can see quite well how the pair is twisted inside the outer jacket. Belden specs 2.7 twists per ft.


Or you can just buy some already twisted like the Belden cable in the picture.

[skrivis]

Mmmm, that sounds tasty. I'll trade you a bottle for a 1M pair of Kimber PBRs. (I think it's PBR, the one that used to be the shielded PBJs.)

I only get it when I go down to Venezuela every 2 years. It's great because they're a cane sugar producing country, so they never changed the formulation of their Coca-Cola. (Corn syrup would be way too expensive there, unlike in the US where it's cheaper than real cane sugar.)

Venezuelan Coke tastes like Coke did in the US before all that New Coke/Classic Coke stuff.

Real Coke, some Havana Club Rum, a bit of limon (lime), and I'm back in the '50s with all the gangsters in the Havana casinos. hehe

There's just nothing like sitting under a palm tree drinking Cuba Libres.

[boead]

Here is an interesting paper on the subject.
http://www.decware.com/paper70.htm

And Frank, don’t remove this post too. It’s not about any particular product, certainly nothing you sell competitively. Besides, I recommend your preamp to people at Decware all the time and Steve doesn’t have a problem with it. Its apples and oranges and remember were all fruit.


I like this quote from Steve D.
How can a power cord make any difference?  I mean after all, even when plugged into a wall outlet with 70 feet of romex going to your breaker box, they can make an improvement.  We've all wondered how this can be, myself included.  I've pondered it for many years and read manufactures explanations.  Many of them should have just come out and said "We have no idea why it works, but it does"... Instead you read about electrons, skin effects, strand interactions and on and on.  Something you can almost digest when applied to speaker wires or interconnects, but a power cord?

[Tweaker]

It's funny how those of us who buy AVA gear do it because it sounds better than our existing stuff and that's ok. We're using good judgement and certainly must have very discerning taste/hearing! But when we use the same set of ears to buy something other than lamp cord because it also sounds better then it's a magic pill or we're somehow engaging in self delusion. I'm starting to think Frank is right and I've been fooling myself all along. Fooling myself that my JPS Labs wire sounds better than lamp cord but also that his amps sound better than a Radio Shack receiver. Just wishful thinking influenced by Franks advertizing hyperbole. I'll have to arrange a double blind test,  because think of the money I can save if I can't hear a difference! And of course if I can (hear a difference) then I must apply the self delusion very selectively. Somehow I'm free of it when I listen to an amps influence on sound quality, but not speaker wire. Or maybe the reverse is true! Geez. now I don't know what to believe! Where's Julian Hirsch when you need him! Sorry Julian, for I have strayed from the true path that "All properly designed and functioning electronics sound alike". Oh the money I have wasted these years. But don't worry! I am back! The prodigal son has returned!

[boead]

Frank, this one is for you!

"Power to the Pebble"
A white paper on Brilliant Pebbles
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina17.htm
Only $129

Also, the Intelligent Chip CD Upgrade Device from Golden Sound
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina27.htm
Read the Review by Bill Gaw at enjoythemusic.com (May 2005)

And lastly ‘The Clever Little Clock’ review from Positive Feedback.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue23/clock_nespa.htm


Snake Oil or unexplained science?

Are you a religious man Frank? Do you believe in God?


For the record, I’d NEVER buy a single one of these devices above. I don’t care enough and I have bills to pay and a family to support but… If a Muslim Fundamentalist can believe that blowing up a bus full of infidels will get him eternity with 100 virgins then who am I to say otherwise!

I thought you’d find this entertaining.

[elcaptain88]

Instead of wires, I've found these two improvements have a much larger impact:

Acoustic Treatments  &

Clean Ears

Pretty obvious stuff. I didn't realize how much gunk was in my ears until I had them checked out & cleaned. Now I may actually be able to hear differences between cables.  

[avahifi]

Of course plugging the power amplifier into an AC outlet isolated from the rest of the system is a very good idea.  The current drawn from the power amp will actually show up as a very low level signal on its power line, and if the other equipment is plugged into the same AC source, that signal will show up at the AC inputs to the other equipment too.  Although power supplies have exellent noise rejection in general, its not perfect, so at some very very low level that music signal will get back to the other components as an unwanted feedback path.

What we are trying to hear and identify as music and not trash is not at all a "done deal" so getting rid of any possible unwanted feedback path, especially if it can be done inexpensively and easily (plug the power amp into a separate AC outlet) is useful.  However, if you cannot do this, then don't loose sleep over it.  Certainly don't plug the amp AC outlet into an auxiliary AC outlet on the preamp itself, that would be the worse case situation.

I am not closed minded about wires and cables, but I want explanations that are not just more vodoo claims.

Frank Van Alstine

P.S.  Audio Circle needs a really good spelling checker.

[avahifi]

If you want more details as to why AVA equipment performs and sounds the way it does, call me at 651-330-9871.  I will be happy to tell you what we do and why we do it.  Audio equipment that tests perfectly under IHF specifications does not sound the same because the tests do not look at many factors and the linerity of the equipment in use can be very much worse than on the test bench.

Frank Van Alstine

[skrivis]

Here is an interesting paper on the subject.
http://www.decware.com/paper70.htm

And Frank, don’t remove this post too. It’s not about any particular product, certainly nothing you sell competitively. Besides, I recommend your preamp to people at Decware all the time and Steve doesn’t have a problem with it. Its apples and oranges and remember were all fruit.


I like this quote from Steve D.
How can a power cord make any difference?  I mean after all, even when plugged into a wall outlet with 70 ...

But then he comes up with his own theory made of foo-foo dust. And.... he's then got a power cord that really makes a difference and doesn't cost a lot. <rolling my eyes>

What's even worse is that the power cord he sells looks to me like it's twisted under the outer cover, and that's the very thing he posits is wrong with common power cords. Yeah, I see that the description says it's braided...

[boead]

But then he comes up with his own theory made of foo-foo dust. And.... he's then got a power cord that really makes a difference and doesn't cost a lot. <rolling my eyes>

What's even worse is that the power cord he sells looks to me like it's twisted under the outer cover, and that's the very thing he posits is wrong with common power cords. Yeah, I see that the description says it's braided...

Meanwhile Steve D. is as famous and respected as Frank, a few of his amps and preamps are revered as ‘reference’ for a number of magazine (and web site) reviewers.  So like Frank he’s doing something right and his opinion matters to some degree.
Do you think Steve D is getting rich selling $150 power cords? I happen to know who makes them for him and IU was told that Steve makes basically nothing! It’s more of a service then a sales item. Same for his interconnects.
I’ve spoke to Steve a few times and he’s said that he only sells wire because at one point he was inundated with calls and emails asking what type of wire he uses and where they can get it. His attitude was mostly like that of Franks, ‘use the cord I gave you and go to Radio Shack for the rest!’ But he has also taken the time to listen and has found that different types of wire can sound different and with no explanation available. Would he advocate a $600 interconnect or power cord? I seriously doubt it, he would find a lot of other things worth buying or doing to his gear to improve (or change) the sound.

Theory made of foo-foo? That‘s what Theory’s are, otherwise they would be called facts.

And.... he's then got a power cord that really makes a difference and doesn't cost a lot?
And that’s really the point that you didn’t get. You don’t have to spend a lot! If you spoke to him and said that, his response would be; ‘I could give a rats ass if you buy mine or not. Here is what the cable is made of, go make your own if you want to save a few bucks!’

As much as I agree with Steve D., I can disagree. I could care less what you think of him or Frank or anyone else for that matter and I’m certainly not going to blindly defend him but he is someone with some level of reputation similar to Frank that has an opinion relevant to this conversation.

And if you think Steve D is sales pitching, you are probably right. I’m sure to some extent he is, much like when I asked Frank some time ago about the input impedance match of a CD Player I was buying and my T7 SLR preamp., He basically didn’t answer the question and then told me if I wanted something that sounded better I should buy his DAC! LOL!! Now that’s a sales pitch!

[skrivis]

Meanwhile Steve D. is as famous and respected as Frank, a few of his amps and preamps are revered as ‘reference’ for a number of magazine (and web site) reviewers.  So like Frank he’s doing something right and his opinion matters to some degree.
Do you think Steve D is getting rich selling $150 power cords? I happen to know who makes them for him and IU was told that Steve makes basically nothing! It’s more of a service then a sales item. Same for his interconnects.
I’ve spoke to Steve a few times and h ...

Oh, I don't have too much of a problem with him selling power cords. To each his own. (Although $150 for a power cord is pretty outrageous.)

But he makes a point of speculating that wire that isn't twisted is somehow better, then says he developed some good sounding wire, then he's got somebody else's wire that's just like his - and it's twisted!

Somebody is certainly twisted here.

[ricmon]

boead

      bravo.  sometime you gotta just let'em have it.   Good Job.

[skrivis]

boead

      bravo.  sometime you gotta just let'em have it.   Good Job.

So you also feel that $150 power cords are sensible? I know you think they change the sound...

[boead]

…I am not closed minded about wires and cables, but I want explanations that are not just more vodoo claims.

I understand Frank and I don’t mean to bust your hump, well at least I don’t mean to be rude, disrespectful or obnoxious, but I don’t think an explanation that you would be willing to except exists. I don’t think there IS an explanation and YES, Magic (or Voodoo) is a science yet discovered, know what I mean?

I agree, a $1000 for a power cord is crazy just like $250,000 is for a new Bentley.
People will pay what they can afford.

[boead]

boead

      bravo.  sometime you gotta just let'em have it.   Good Job.

So you also feel that $150 power cords are sensible? I know you think they change the sound...

Sensibility is a judgment call based on personal evaluation. My answer is of little value.

[avahifi]

The difference is that the Bentley or a Rolex like mine for that matter, is jewelry.  I know a $10 Timex is more accurate, but I don't care. My Rolex is the only piece of jewelry I own and that is just fine with me.

However, power cords are NOT jewelry, but they are being marketed and sold as if they were jewelry. Of course the owners of six inch thick interconnects may think they are jewelry, but nobody else who is not a hi-fi nut case does.  Hey before you get upset, I am a hi-fi nut case too, lifelong.  But I can tell what is jewelry and what is not.

Frank Van Alstine

Oh I wish for a spelling checker. Thats what happens when you learn to read by yourself at three years old, you ignore grade school completely.