[jimdgoulding]

  Hard to have a conversation about this (I trust that there have been many) cause everybody's system and listening environs are different, but I find it interesting.  In my system, I have analog and digital front ends that cost very nearly the same.  Two friends have visited me in the last two weeks to listen on my systems.  One friend has an expensive analog front end while the other has an expensive digital one.  The former has digital, also, while the latter has digital only.  Very early in both sessions, BOTH guys made the comment that music via my analog front end sounds sooo organic.  Organic is good, no? 

My digital system- a Sony DVD player used as a transport feeding an upsampling Bel Canto 1.1 DAC via a KCI Pegasus digital cable- is fast, open and clean.  Images are tactile and separated out dimensionally very nicely.  The high end is sharp and extended. 

Analog for me is produced by a Nottingham Horizon table with a Rega 250 (Expressimo modified) arm and a Grado Sonata Reference cartridge.  The table sits atop a butcher block with steel cones to better isolate it from vibration.  Frequency response of the Grado is a flat line.

My analog lends more body and weight to instruments and has wider dynamics.  Now, I know my digital is not SOTA, but neither is my analog, so I think this is a reasonable comparison (quite obviously it is for me).  Music has a physical quality that my digital can't quite muster.  Its excitement comes from this and its very fulfilling (hence my upgrades have only been peripheral over the last few years).  Both systems image very convincingly but bring those images to life differently.   

Maybe the title of this topic should be Analog AND Digital.  I'm glad I have both.  And, maybe, the differences are ones of systems, but maybe not.  Maybe they are the mediums.  In a review of an Esoteric dig player, the reviewer said that this player bridges the gap between the two.  That's an acknowledgement that they are somehow different sonically.  Sounds like to me (pun intended).

To close, I see listeners running head long into computer audio.  Is that so we can pick and choose?  Or, for sound?     

Appreciate your thoughts.

[Wayner]

I remember in the early days of the CD that many albums had an apology for the "limitations of the source material", and usually made mention of it right on the back cover of the CD jewel case. Almost 30 years later and I think they are still using smoke and mirrors to confuse the consumer about the quality of the now dreaded CD.

While both analog and digital deal with different demons, there are the usual similarities and inherent problems with "canned music". What do you do about the dynamic range? The LP format had physical limitations; you just couldn't put that kind of bass or volume energy into the groove, or your poor stylus would be over in the next town.

The CD folks, with there new found dynamic range (over 100db) soon realized after recording were being done in the DDD mode, that many systems would physically have "melt down" with the newly found dynamic range. Speakers would be blown, amps would be smoldering and the world would be Topsy tervy. Hense, the return of compression. Save us from ourselves. The kids won't know how to monitor the volume, and what do you do about orchestral music? Quiet at the beginning on some stuff, then thunderous somewhere in between. Will people be scrambling for there remote controls to keep the amp or speakers from harry carry?

Now, we have the CD vs the LP. Both with wonderful pluses, both with not so wonderful minuses. What are we to do?

Wayner 

[jimdgoulding]

Wayner-  Sounds like some of that 'bass and volume energy' is in some of my grooves.  My little stylus hangs in there.  That's the kind of thing I don't get as successfully from digital and has me wondering.   

[SwedeSound]

I'm curious how/whether hi-resolution digital downloads (or some as yet unborn "CD of the Future" with broader market appeal and staying power than SACD or DVD-A whatever that might be) would tip the scales in favor of bits and bytes. It seems to me that if those formats can pack loads of additional information and extended dynamics into a recording, it would fill any gaps or shortcomings some people perceive when listening to current Red Book recordings vs. a nice analog front end. I have been thinking of hi-rez in terms of standard definition TV compared to HDTV... No comparison, right? Or completely wrong? 

[satfrat]

I really think it all boils down to listener preference when it comes to digital verses analog, or when comparing anything audio for that matter. Myself, I cherish dynamics and clarity which PC audio has given me more so than CD's or anything analog. For my ear, audio has never been better than it is today and it's only going to get better. Looking back isn't an option for my ears, ymmv. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[Wind Chaser]

The analogue vs. digital debate rarely seems to take into account that there is a wide range of quality in each domain, both in the gear and the recordings.  Having owned an outstanding analogue playback system back in the early eighties (a strain gauge pick up) I found the vast majority of vinyl recordings were a weak tribute to the medium at best.  There?s nothing perfect in audio reproduction and at some point every advance led to greater frustration, so I gave up pursuing it in favor of what I perceive as acceptable sound.

[*Scotty*]

There is an obvious fallacious assumption at the heart of almost any analogue to digital comparison. You are always comparing two different analogue gain stages as well as two different information storage mediums. Unless the same analogue gain stage design is used in both products they are bound to sound different even before the differences in technology are factored into the equation. With the advent of the computer as a digital source even more variables need to be considered. I think generalizations concerning the basic sonic characteristics of both analogue and digital mediums need to be avoided. It follows that the conclusions resulting from of an oversimplified analytical approach to these types of comparisons will not be adequate to accurately describe either the similarities or the differences between the two mediums. I think the wisest thing to do is to consider the results of such comparisons on a case specific basis.
Scotty

[jimdgoulding]

I really think it all boils down to listener preference when it comes to digital verses analog, or when comparing anything audio for that matter. Myself, I cherish dynamics and clarity which PC audio has given me more so than CD's or anything analog. For my ear, audio has never been better than it is today and it's only going to get better. Looking back isn't an option for my ears, ymmv. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

I'm not looking back.  It's what for me is being delivered by my system in the here and now.  Granted, I don't have a PC driven system.  CD, however, hasn't moved me away from analog other than the fact I don't have to endure mechanical noise sometimes and can more easily operate with a remote.  This comes at a price to me on some level.  On good recordings, anyways.  Is PC capable of more dynamics than analog?  Maybe it's an ebb and flow thing, seems like I read that somewhere, dunno, but analog seems to do this more convincingly in my world than the digital I know.  I mean the cup runneth over sometimes and it's good and lasting.  It's there on my digital, alright, but it's more matter of fact (?).  That's purely subjective (well, if others hear this, too, maybe not so much), but, I'm continuously being justified.

[satfrat]

I really think it all boils down to listener preference when it comes to digital verses analog, or when comparing anything audio for that matter. Myself, I cherish dynamics and clarity which PC audio has given me more so than CD's or anything analog. For my ear, audio has never been better than it is today and it's only going to get better. Looking back isn't an option for my ears, ymmv. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

I'm not looking back.  It's what for me is being delivered by my system in the here and now.  Granted, I don't have a PC driven system.  CD, however, hasn't moved me away from analog other than the fact I don't have to endure mechanical noise sometimes and can more easily operate with a remote.  This comes at a price to me on some level.  On good recordings, anyways.  Is PC capable of more dynamics than analog?  Maybe it's an ebb and flow thing, seems like I read that somewhere, dunno, but analog seems to do this more convincingly in my world than the digital I know.  I mean the cup runneth over sometimes and it's good and lasting.  It's there on my digital, alright, but its more matter of fact (?).

I never said you were looking back Jim, I'm totally speaking from my own perspective. Me,,, not you,,, comprende?
 
Do you appreciate my thoughts? You did ask for them. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[jimdgoulding]

I really think it all boils down to listener preference when it comes to digital verses analog, or when comparing anything audio for that matter. Myself, I cherish dynamics and clarity which PC audio has given me more so than CD's or anything analog. For my ear, audio has never been better than it is today and it's only going to get better. Looking back isn't an option for my ears, ymmv. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

I'm not looking back.  It's what for me is being delivered by my system in the here and now.  Granted, I don't have a PC driven system.  CD, however, hasn't moved me away from analog other than the fact I don't have to endure mechanical noise sometimes and can more easily operate with a remote.  This comes at a price to me on some level.  On good recordings, anyways.  Is PC capable of more dynamics than analog?  Maybe it's an ebb and flow thing, seems like I read that somewhere, dunno, but analog seems to do this more convincingly in my world than the digital I know.  I mean the cup runneth over sometimes and it's good and lasting.  It's there on my digital, alright, but its more matter of fact (?).

I never said you were looking back Jim, I'm totally speaking from my own perspective. Me,,, not you,,, comprende?
 
Do you appreciate my thoughts? You did ask for them. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

Absolutely, I do.  Whatever did I say that would make you think I wouldn't.

[jimdgoulding]

Swede-  I hear ya.  I am hardly someone who can comment on the recent advances of digital.  One of the friends mentioned in the opening is a PC audio devotee using an EMM Labs DAC.  He even bought a new computer for this purpose.  And this is Satfrat's preferred medium.  He probably started out with a CD player and could comment.  That friend, and whose idea it was for me to play records, now wants me to bring my table and some albums over to his house and hook it up.  A week earlier, he took his front end over to a guy's house with Avant Garde Duo speakers and they swapped out his digital with the guy's analog and he came away with a new attitude.  In two weeks we expect to do this.

Wind-  I hear you, too.  I'm curious to know what you ended up with at the end of the day and if you still use a table?  If you started out years ago like me, you must have a ton of records. 

[Larkston Zinaspic]

I think a good Hi-Rez needledrop can be a nice compromise between the two mediums (unless you're a 'purist' that is), if all the other variables are dialed in favorably. We're all slaves to the mastering/cutting engineer in any case.

[mjosef]

Caught in the middle are the HuMans. 

I don't really care who wins, just wanta' see some bodies crushed, and blood in the fields.  aa

[jimdgoulding]

Caught in the middle are the HuMans. 

I don't really care who wins, just wanta' see some bodies crushed, and blood in the fields.  aa

Always good to know what a man on the street thinks, Mj, for somebody.

[drphoto]

It seems to me, that the problems of digititis have finally become understood and being dealt with. Digital, especially computer or at least hard drive based audio seems to be the future, not only for convenience but quality.

I love vinyl. But  good analog playback can be pretty expensive, the TT, the arm, cart, isolation rack/platform, record cleaner plus it requires some sophisticated knowledge of setup.

It's probably always going to be a what ever you prefer issue, just like everything else in audio.