AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Tube-o-phile Circle => Topic started by: James Romeyn on 21 May 2009, 04:00 am
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My friend is just finishing these. He has built dozens of amps & these 845s are alleged to be his last; top quality parts throughout including Tango output transformers. He may supervise the construction of one similar monoblock for the center (primary) channel of my Trinaural system. These things look just gorgeous. I'm hoping to hear them in a couple weeks on his latest speaker project, an OB design. He also built the 7' horns pictured.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/ro7939/HN%20gear/845sbestpartslastamp.jpg?t=1242878074)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/ro7939/HN%20gear/Ho1.jpg?t=1242878391)
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Man those are sweet! :drool:
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This friend owns & personally designs & builds a more impressive array of gear than any other individual I know or know of. He is a degreed digital engineer but loves all things audio both analog & digital, tubes & high-sensitivity horns being at the top of his lust list. He owns the estimated $25k TW Acustic Raven, mid-level Clearaudio mc & the recently released $5k Clearaudio WCF arm reputed to far outperform the Graham (The Clearaudio arm was about five years in the making; the Graham was directly in their sites & no prisoners were accepted till the goal was met; several major revisions occurred during the design process; in person it combines a look of bridge-like solidity & jewel-like precision.)
His collection of commercial gear including Cary's allegedly all-conquering 845C monos, is just as impressive as his own self-designed/built equipment. The amps pictured are intended to replace & outperform the Cary. Here's my friend's direct quote today commenting on his current 845 project & his Cary 845C monos (estimated MSRP $10k/pair USD):
...Yes, when you build your own amp, you always go for the best. I open the Cary 805C bottom plate to look at their (workmanship), it is S-CARY!...
Good play on words for someone for whom English may have been a second language. IMO the ass-kissing between SOME (though definitely not all) so-called professional reviewers & manufacturers is well beyond the pale.
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Are the 845's in SET parallel or are they push-pull? Power output?
I often wish I could get my hands on a push-pull type amp using sweep or transmitting tubes. Such amps put out lots of power with a minimal number of output tubes. (i.e. EL509 pairs for 120 to 150 watts a side). Simple designs with the potential for great sonics.
Agreed, the last Cary amp interior I saw was pretty messy. My amps are a little better but still had some spaghetti inside.
Enjoy yours!!
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Wow those are attractive! My aesthetics completely!
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Josh
Couldn't agree more concerning the look. It's flabergasting that commercial makers w/ years of professional experience at the highest level can or will not design w/ the clean, classic simplicity of my friend's 845.
DustyC
Architecture unknown; will forward info when it arrives. Member Bill Berndt's 200W Jolida Music Envoy monos are among my favorites; IIRC single HUMOUNGOUS transmitter output. Give him a holler if you visit the SF Bay Area.
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Definitely a pair of the more beautiful amps I have seen. :bowdown: It would be nice to see the innards, if possible. Hmmm...me thinks I'll have to open the bottom of my VAC amps just for curiosities sake.
Is the circuit itself a common one, or one he designed himself?
JakeJ
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Josh
Couldn't agree more concerning the look. It's flabergasting that commercial makers w/ years of professional experience at the highest level can or will not design w/ the clean, classic simplicity of my friend's 845.
DustyC
Architecture unknown; will forward info when it arrives. Member Bill Berndt's 200W Jadis Music Envoy monos are among my favorites; IIRC single HUMOUNGOUS transmitter output. Give him a holler if you visit the SF Bay Area.
Jolida Music Envoys
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Josh
Couldn't agree more concerning the look. It's flabergasting that commercial makers w/ years of professional experience at the highest level can or will not design w/ the clean, classic simplicity of my friend's 845.
DustyC
Architecture unknown; will forward info when it arrives. Member Bill Berndt's 200W Jadis Music Envoy monos are among my favorites; IIRC single HUMOUNGOUS transmitter output. Give him a holler if you visit the SF Bay Area.
Jolida Music Envoys
My bad...I was thinking about a Jadis preamp owned by another friend.
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Are the 845's in SET parallel or are they push-pull? Power output?
I often wish I could get my hands on a push-pull type amp using sweep or transmitting tubes. Such amps put out lots of power with a minimal number of output tubes. (i.e. EL509 pairs for 120 to 150 watts a side). Simple designs with the potential for great sonics.
Agreed, the last Cary amp interior I saw was pretty messy. My amps are a little better but still had some spaghetti inside.
Enjoy yours!!
Update/corrections...OK...output trannies are Tango (described as best available; subject corrected), twice the cost of the previously described Tamura. Architecture is 25W SE, 845 driver/845 output to maintain the sound character of the 845...as compared to Cary 300B driver/845 output. A cap could drive the output but this is considered the least desirable. Cost no object would be to employ the highest quality transformer as a driver, but cost-prohibitive at about $750 for that option.
Will audition his just completed active triamped OB this Monday. JBL 15 paralleled w/ JBL 12 (800 Hz LPxo), JBL 2397 mid horn lens (115dB!!!), tweeter unknown:
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/ro7939/HN%20gear/OBnogrill.jpg?t=1243548031)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg105/ro7939/HN%20gear/OBwithgrill.jpg?t=1243548253)
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Totally SWEET! These pix give new meaning to home theater. I want :drool:
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The subject's pad is um...impressive. Over 5000sf...I thought my 3400sf cave was large till entering his palace. The system w/ the OB speaker may be his third system.
The main system in the living room houses his self-designed/built 7' horn pictured earlier. That system includes the larger TW Acustic TT (about $30k-ish now). Monday I hope to hear his latest arm, the $5k Clearaudio that was targeted to clearly trounce the Graham.
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This is my latest PP845 ampli "Mikro", the smallest size PP845 monoblock (chassis size 9X13), with 50W pure class A no negative FB, using Tango.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=35895)
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Wow! Sweet! Congratulations for such outstanding craftsmanship! It's still hard to believe DIY can look so good. I can't think of any commercial product that looks so clean, classic, and thoroughly delectable. "Eye candy" doesn't do this justice.
My friend that built the tubes in the OP built speakers with field coil 8" from Europe (IIRC about $2500ea, super high sensitivity) and multiple ribbon tweeters (one ribbon fires forward, one each fires at approximately 30-degrees, one rear-firing). Individual speaker modules can be stacked. He desires no images posted because he tires of seeing his amp and speaker designs copied in Asia (he's from Viet Nam).
Viet Nam's economy is booming, with more multi-millionaires popping up each time he returns. It's nothing for audiophiles there to own $25k MSRP of cables/interconnects...though he is seldom if ever impressed by the performance of commercial systems valued as high as $200k.
A friend of his from Asia has a daughter that lives nearby Silicon Valley. This same friend just bought Wilson MAXX 2s to install at his daughter's home so he has something nice to listen to when he visits his daughter.
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I must say, those amps in the OP are exactly to my taste aesthetically - and I bet they would be great with my Dream Makers. If I didn't already have Atma's I'd be feeling an irresistible itch. Anyhow - what a fantastic job - the owner is one lucky guy.
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Welcome to AC, Unison845!
Very nice looking work and I bet sounds good too.
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Thanks for the warm welcome.
Below is an all out attempt 300B SE amplifier. 300B driving 300B SE 8W using James Output and Interstage, with fully regulated tube power supply that I build last year. Same size as the Mikro, only 20% of the power.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=35980)
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Purdy! :drool:
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Another beauty contest winner fer sure! :thumb:
I switched back and forth a half dozen times between Unison845s amps and my friend's amps in the OP.
Good luck picking a cosmetic winner between those two! I can't! Well, if I had to I lean toward Unison845s for the gold top plate and wood finish. They look so good you can almost taste it!
Indeed, the only three transformer brands by friend endorses are James, Tamura, and Tango. IIRC he prefers matching the PS and output brands, and if I further recall correctly, Tamura PS transformers come only in 240V, meaning a US user would require a voltage step-up.
I'll shoot an image of my buddy's wireless tube DAC and post it: dual KT66 output tubes, powers the amp directly. Purpleheart enclosure, very purdy...
Question: For the above described wireless tube DAC, how would you quantify/qualify the predicted change (if any) in audio performance, new vs. fully seasoned? Number of hours to achieve fully seasoned performance?
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They do look very nice!
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New equipment usually takes about 40 hrs break in period for the sound to stabilize. The most obvious improvement is in the bass region, where it seemed to get deeper as you spend more time, this also change the lower midrange character which become meatier. Another thing I noticed is that when I start to enjoy the music rather than listening to a newly built amp, the break-in period is basically over.
Watch this page in the future, I am in the process of building an all out attempt another a pair monoblock SE with high power tube using another round of top notch Tango transformers and some very surprising output tubes.
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New equipment usually takes about 40 hrs break in period for the sound to stabilize. The most obvious improvement is in the bass region, where it seemed to get deeper as you spend more time, this also change the lower midrange character which become meatier. Another thing I noticed is that when I start to enjoy the music rather than listening to a newly built amp, the break-in period is basically over.
I can't imagine agreeing more with the part I emphasized with italics. It is an accurate and poetic expression of my experience.
Watch this page in the future, I am in the process of building an all out attempt another a pair monoblock SE with high power tube using another round of top notch Tango transformers and some very surprising output tubes.
Yummy!
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I must say, those amps in the OP are exactly to my taste aesthetically - and I bet they would be great with my Dream Makers. If I didn't already have Atma's I'd be feeling an irresistible itch. Anyhow - what a fantastic job - the owner is one lucky guy.
Duke LeJeune brought his Atma-Sphere 30W stereo to audition on my custom monitors he helped design (Duke gets a license fee; described at my website). The monitors have only one impedance peak above the bass range, about 20-Ohms at 2.2 kHz. When matched with the OTL there was a F.R. peak corresponding to the impedance peak. There was too much output in that range but it was otherwise close to perfect.
Duke engineered an impedance EQ device (parallel circuit only, nothing in series) to flatten the above peak. With the EQ device the OTL performance made an indelible impression, the proverbial match made in heaven. Spatial qualities were so vast and distinct, like fireworks, that it took time to acclimate. Not fatiguing, just such a remarkable improvement. (That was with only two stereo monopole monitors-the same monitors were upgraded to Duke's "vertical offset bipolar" technology and there are now three across the front with pure analog Trinaural processing.)
Anyone would be satisfied with the OTL power and dynamics in this 3300cf room, even more so now that the monitors are HP X'd around 150 Hz and Duke's best sub woofer system is added. The 30W OTL seemed about twice as powerful as a Plinius SA-50 Mk3 (final edition) 55 lb pure class A 50W, not a slouch by any metric.
Even my friend who built the amps in the OP swears by A.S. OTL on the right load. He employs active XO exclusively. I'm surprised he doesn't build his speakers around OTL.
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OTL with the right speaker (electrostat) can sound amazingly good. I still have a pair of OTL3 that drive the Stax ESL83, which other 100W tube amp failed to make them sing. I heard the Atma Sphere that drive the JBL Hartsfield with surprisingly great sound.
Just visit a machine shop that is working on a custom tube socket that I designed for my next amp!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36063)
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Is it an intro to new product line/custom work?
Or just a hobby?
Anyway - great looking amps, either thought I am more interested in how those sound :drool:
BTW: big fan of SET amps myself :notworthy:
Cheers
Mariusz :thumb:
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Just a hobby. I never sell any amp that I build them with my own hand, too precious let them go. All my systems used active xover, which means 6 mono blocks for a 3 way system, that's why ... never enough!
My next amp is SET which will be used for experimenting some various output tube with output greater than 20W, .. in search of the holy grail .
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You are a .......scary character Mr. :thumb:
Great looking system - would love to hear it play MUSIC.
(will be checking this post for updates)
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OTL with the right speaker (electrostat) can sound amazingly good. I still have a pair of OTL3 that drive the Stax ESL83, which other 100W tube amp failed to make them sing. I heard the Atma Sphere that drive the JBL Hartsfield with surprisingly great sound.
Just visit a machine shop that is working on a custom tube socket that I designed for my next amp!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36063)
W-O-W!!!!!!
HOBBY?
Sounds like someone saying they are into rockets as a hobby and they are flying to the moon next weekend!
Sweet.
I thought my buddy in CA was a fanatic till you came along!
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I dont know about rocket, but mounting one of these under the belly of an A10-Warthog, it sure looked like a guided bomb.
If all goes as planned, the number of different output tubes that can be used with this amplifier will be mind-boggling.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36084)
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So many tubes...so little time... :lol:
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After two weeks waiting for metal plating, this is how it looks.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37080)
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WOW! :o Beauty! All the gold color metal parts, anodized or plated? I'm guessing from earlier shots they are aluminum, yes? What did it cost to have the parts treated?
Please keep the eye candy coming.
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How funny to talk to my friend on the phone a week ago and find out this IS the same person! I knew it was impossible for there to be two such fanatics!
Here's one of his several rigs. This speaker is about 7' tall.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7386)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=user;id=569)
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Yes, they are Aluminum. I have them Anodized, they got the wrong darker gold color, I prefer the lighter gold like my previous amp. I would have liked the tube socket to have different color which would make better contrast, but that would cost another extra couple hundred. In Silicon Valley to have something anodized, it would cost $80 for setup fees, each aluminum item cost between $5 to $10 depends on size.
Jim,
The picture was 5 years old, I have 6 tube amplifiers driving the system now.
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ONLY six! That's AWFUL! :lol:
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I always has a curiosity of the sound of 100W Class A tube amplifier, I mean a "real class A triode" at 100W, through low efficiency loudspeaker.
This is what I came up with, a Parallel Push Pull 845, chassis in "Bloodwood"
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37112)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37114)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37115)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37116)
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:o Amazing! I'm guessing you'll be able to heat the room nicely as well. :lol:
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A pair of these would burn over 1200 Watts, winter is coming, hope it will snow in California.
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A pair of these would burn over 1200 Watts, winter is coming, hope it will snow in California.
Hey, we get 61" of white powder here, on average! I need one of those on my center channel speaker! The house is really well insulated, but it still runs a bit colder in the basement sound room vs. upstairs....those tube sockets are just fantastic!
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Here is a working 845 PPP amp. Preliminary measurement showed that the amp with 1000V on the tube and bias 95ma per tube, it would put out close to 100 Watts, then changed to class AB to 120Watts @5% distortion. It does draw more than 600 Watts from my variac as expected. One more amp to wired!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38195)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38196)
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Very nice work UNISON845!
I'd be very interested in learning about your speaker system, including the crossover methodology. I have the intention of building my next system in a manor somewhat similar to yours, although until seeing your system I was thinking of only a 3 way approach; perhaps utilizing push-pull 845's for the bottom.
I had a 3 way system set up about 25-30 years ago, but it utilized commercially made amps (McIntosh MC-275 bottom, Marantz 8B mids, pair Marantz 5's for top). I built a passive filter system with a bunch of UTC inductors, etc. and drove it with a pair of Marantz 1 preamps. That system sits un-assembled and unused in my library these days (where I listen to my IPod Touch-LOL!), except I mis-placed one of the Marantz 1's and used the UTC inductors from the filter in other projects. I'm sure the missing Marantz 1 will show up eventually; I have so much gear that things sometimes go missing for years.
I want to use only DIY electronics in the system I'm building now.
Would you be willing to post some schematics? While I've designed/built 100's of amps I am always looking to learn something new.
Peace,
DrRick
Here is a working 845 PPP amp. Preliminary measurement showed that the amp with 1000V on the tube and bias 95ma per tube, it would put out close to 100 Watts, then changed to class AB to 120Watts @5% distortion. It does draw more than 600 Watts from my variac as expected. One more amp to wired!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38195)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38196)
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Here is the finished pair.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=39502)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=39503)
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It may seemed overkill to power a 2 way speaker with TEN 845 tubes, ... sonically it is well worth it. The eight 845 tubes in the two 845 PP monoblock, brings out the best of the woofers, unbelievable!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=39505)
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With the holidays behind, I got to finish the amp, starting with the big tube, Western Electric 212.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=43100)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=43101)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=43102)
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WOWWWWWW! Stunning. Love it.
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How much heat do those monos put out? Two 845s is enough to raise the temp in my room.
Stunning build--I bet it sounds great!
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:notworthy:
No words can express my delight at seeing this...
Anand.
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845 MEET 212e.
The 845 PPP draw about 1300W, the 212 about 800W. Both amps run Class A.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=43604)
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How much heat do those monos put out? Two 845s is enough to raise the temp in my room.
Stunning build--I bet it sounds great!
Well if the PPP amps are drawing 650 watts each and putting out 100 watts output, then that means they are putting out roughly 550 watts of heat (each). No need for heater in that room, its got it covered.
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You're obviously a very skilled builder. How do you heat all those big tubes? Do you get much residual hum on the outputs?
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Heater the tube is simple, you just parallel those regulators, on the 212 I used 3 of them. Under the chassis, there are two fans that blow cool air, keeping all the generating heat part cooler for reliability.
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So you are running DC then. IC.
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AC Heater would generate too much hum for 100+db sensitivity speakers.
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Highly recommended (I just did it): Start at the top and re-examine every image in this thread. You just can't believe this is the DIY work of a "hobbyist!" If this is the work of hobbyist, what does professional work look like? :green:
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Here is my latest. I have to try the 6C33C tube! Latest 6C33C amplifier.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50661)
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Please shoot me a PM if you decide to "thin the herd":)....I would love to hear one of those beasts.
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Sorry... not any time soon. But I can let you borrow if you are local.
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Ho?
What are you bringing to burning amp?
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I am not sure that I will go to the burning amp.
If I can make it, I probably bring this 6C33C, since it is lighter than other amp, plus it is a stereo chassis.
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For source, I'll bring my Wireless DAC/Preamp, the the one in the middle, the same one I brought last year.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50994)
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Latest 6C33C SE mono block amp with purpleheart hardwood chassis.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=61801)
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Sorry... not any time soon. But I can let you borrow if you are local.
Thanks for the generous offer. I just found your response. Where is local? I'm in San Francisco.
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Unisom I just wanted to say that I really admire you for all your talent and appreciate taking the time to share it with us...Oh yea, I also hate your gutz! :D
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I live in Fremont, about 40 miles from San Francisco.
Thanks for the generous offer. I just found your response. Where is local? I'm in San Francisco.
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Tull Skull,
I appreciate your comments, it's much harder to make an amplifier look pleasing the eyes than to design a tube power amp I think. Took me more than 2 months to get the chassis layout to the point that I like. It only takes me 3 days to make this GM70 amp sing from scratch. Here is my latest GM70 amplifier also in purple heart hardwood chassis.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62070)
Unisom I just wanted to say that I really admire you for all your talent and appreciate taking the time to share it with us...Oh yea, I also hate your gutz! :D
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I live in Fremont, about 40 miles from San Francisco.
Wow! I've wanted to start some DIY and it is nice to know that I've got such an expert locally. I would be thrilled to connect with you sometime this summer when my work settles down a bit. We have so many audiophiles in the Bay Area and I have greatly enjoyed making friends along this journey. Thanks again for the kind offer.
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DIY is lots of fun, but playing with high voltage is deadly dangerous!
I think everybody who build amplifier got shock from it at least once. For my part I got it more than once, but the most memorable one happened when building a 250TL (20 years ago) amplifier with voltage about 1000V, the amp is very heavy since it is a stereo, probably over 100lbs so moving around was not easy. I got the amp up side down to debug something, then I turned the amp power off and tried to reach a long nose plier, my arm part close to the elbow touched the 4 pin socket and gave me the hardest electrical shock in my life, my heart beat irregularly, i can feel my hair raised straight, and for six moths period, I did not touch that amp, that's how scary it was. I was lucky because the power amp was OFF, it was only the discharge of the storage cap through my arm that gave the shock, so I dont want to think what would have happen if the amp was ON. I also heard of a story that a guy who tried to build an 845 amp that lost a finger. Luckily, with tremendous caution since then, I have not got any shock from amplifier building. But as always, powering a freshly built power amplifier such as the GM70 with 1400V under the chassis for the first time always make my heart racing!
So, while DIY is fun, I would suggest any starter to proceed building high voltage stuff with lots and lots of precaution, sometimes it might be worth it to pay somebody to build an amp for you rather than taking chances, especially if you own quite a few Apple or Google stock. Starting DIY in other area such as speakers, DAC, turntable are also lots of fun but much less dangerous.
Wow! I've wanted to start some DIY and it is nice to know that I've got such an expert locally. I would be thrilled to connect with you sometime this summer when my work settles down a bit. We have so many audiophiles in the Bay Area and I have greatly enjoyed making friends along this journey. Thanks again for the kind offer.
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There is some great info on electrical safety on tubelab's site. I think he worked on telephone poles at one point and is a power engineer by day.
I like how he suggests plugging the amp into a power strip some distance from the amp, pre-hook up lots of DVMs with alligator clips prior to power up and if using electrolytic caps at high voltage protect yourself behind a clear plexiglass barrier, then turn it on and read the voltages, power down and wait till the DVMs show no stored voltage anymore, then fix.
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DIY is lots of fun, but playing with high voltage is deadly dangerous!
I think everybody who build amplifier got shock from it at least once. For my part I got it more than once, but the most memorable one happened when building a 250TL (20 years ago) amplifier with voltage about 1000V, the amp is very heavy since it is a stereo, probably over 100lbs so moving around was not easy. I got the amp up side down to debug something, then I turned the amp power off and tried to reach a long nose plier, my arm part close to the elbow touched the 4 pin socket and gave me the hardest electrical shock in my life, my heart beat irregularly, i can feel my hair raised straight, and for six moths period, I did not touch that amp, that's how scary it was. I was lucky because the power amp was OFF, it was only the discharge of the storage cap through my arm that gave the shock, so I dont want to think what would have happen if the amp was ON. I also heard of a story that a guy who tried to build an 845 amp that lost a finger. Luckily, with tremendous caution since then, I have not got any shock from amplifier building. But as always, powering a freshly built power amplifier such as the GM70 with 1400V under the chassis for the first time always make my heart racing!
So, while DIY is fun, I would suggest any starter to proceed building high voltage stuff with lots and lots of precaution, sometimes it might be worth it to pay somebody to build an amp for you rather than taking chances, especially if you own quite a few Apple or Google stock. Starting DIY in other area such as speakers, DAC, turntable are also lots of fun but much less dangerous.
Hahahahaha.....I said "start DIY" :D
No question I will stay clear of any high voltages, and though I don't own enough stocks at the moment, I am wise enough to appreciate other people's brilliant efforts :thumb:
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I wish I have your talent, but I am not. Would you consider built me a pair? I love your 845s'. Thanks
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Finally, I have completed a 211 amplifier that sound rival to the 845 tubes.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75432)
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Nice work :thumb: . I guess I can drop by and pick up those old dusty 845's then :D?
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The 845s are still being used, my system is tri-amped. Never have enough amp to play with!!
Nice work :thumb: . I guess I can drop by and pick up those old dusty 845's then :D?
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Warning to anyone who receives offer to visit Unison845's humble abode: I recommend slow, deep breathing Yoga exercise in your car before you walk up to ring the door bell. You need to be emotionally and physically prepared for the experience of being in this audiophile parallel-universe. :thumb: Bring a paper bag to breath into if you are prone to hyperventilation!
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The pictures here are amazing , wish I had the room for that 1st set up,horns horns and bass cabinets wow :thumb:
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That picture is an experimental setup using 4 Tact amp with built in xover, it's more than 7 years old photo. I now multi-amp it with all tubes.
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This is how the 211 amp was built.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79623)
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Very nice work unison845. Curious what you feel are the best interstage transformers?
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The best of all is the Tango NC20, no question about it, it become so pricey now, I am not sure it is really worth it. I have not tried the new Tango ISO NC20F , some day I will try to buy a pair. Among the one that I have tried are:Tango NC14, Tango NC15, Tamura STU5K, Lundahl, Electra-Print ...
Very nice work unison845. Curious what you feel are the best interstage transformers?
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Here is my latest built amp. Another 211 SE (20W), this time using all DHT. Input/Driver is 10Y.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81735)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81734)
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Those look great! 8)
Best they sound great, too.
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Hi Unison845 and all Audio Circle members.
Did you say you built those by yourself?
It is as nice looking as a unit built by a amplifier manufacturer.
A real professional look.
Why use the 211 instead of the 845?
Your name is Unison845 not Unison211. :lol:
Looking more closely at the top of the amplifier,
look as if you have used wood, not metal. Is that right?
Guy 13
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Looking more closely at the top of the amplifier,
look as if you have used wood, not metal. Is that right?
Guy 13
Brushed anodized aluminum maybe?
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Yes, it is brushed Aluminum anodized like all my previous amp, wrapped with hardwood. This amp was originally intended for 845 and 211 tubes. Due to low mu of 10Ytube, it takes 2.5vrms for max power with 211, for 845 it will takes around 7vrms. This all DHT tube amp is a pain to build because it needed 3 separate heaters, and regulated for low noise, it tooked a while to finish, but is worth it. It serve as an experiment for couple more exotic amp that is in the work.
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The 845 gain is only 6, the 211 gain is 12 and the great sound 805 tube has a gain of 50.
Indeed low gain is a prob for the builders. These amps are really beautiful.
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Just saw this thread, thanks for posting your work Unison845! :thumb:
I am looking into building a higher powered SET than my EL34 SET amp, but it is not cheap... :(
I built an Aikido preamp that uses 6SN7s and has a gain of 10x (20 dB), it drives EL34s without the amp needing a driver stage. This works really well but it is only a 5.5 wpc amp in triode mode. I am curious what output tube / driver combo you would recommend to get 15+ wpc rms when used with the Aikido preamp, the input sensitivity could be in the 10-15V rms range... also, the Aikido has a relatively low output impedance and uses a cathode follower output tube.
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Most DHT has low mu, there is a variety of tube that you can use without any problem driving them, it's just that I want to try the 10Y as input and driver, I built a preamp long time ago using the 10Y and I like it very much,
The 805 even though is a high gain tube, but the problem is you have to use in class A2 + negative feedback. I prefer the pure sound of DHT without negative feedback.
The 845 gain is only 6, the 211 gain is 12 and the great sound 805 tube has a gain of 50.
Indeed low gain is a prob for the builders. These amps are really beautiful.
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For a 15W, I definitely recommend the 6C33C SE, on page 4, the second amp picture from top is the 6C33C SE that I have built. This is a great sounding tube, it does not have the midrange purity of DHT 845/211/212... , but it sounded so coherent from top to bottom, very clean. For an amp to sound better than the 6C33C, you will have to spend quite a large amount of money for a good pair of output/interstage transformer, then even more for the tubes! The rugged 6C33C tubes at less than $40, is the greatest bargain of all time!
Just saw this thread, thanks for posting your work Unison845! :thumb:
I am looking into building a higher powered SET than my EL34 SET amp, but it is not cheap... :(
I built an Aikido preamp that uses 6SN7s and has a gain of 10x (20 dB), it drives EL34s without the amp needing a driver stage. This works really well but it is only a 5.5 wpc amp in triode mode. I am curious what output tube / driver combo you would recommend to get 15+ wpc rms when used with the Aikido preamp, the input sensitivity could be in the 10-15V rms range... also, the Aikido has a relatively low output impedance and uses a cathode follower output tube.
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Most DHT has low mu, there is a variety of tube that you can use without any problem driving them, it's just that I want to try the 10Y as input and driver, I built a preamp long time ago using the 10Y and I like it very much,
The 805 even though is a high gain tube, but the problem is you have to use in class A2 + negative feedback. I prefer the pure sound of DHT without negative feedback.
Unison: Congratulations for your beautiful amp, built a tube amp is not for anyone.
Iam able to do only the wood chassis and stock parts, the difficult work is assembly and testing the unit.
Of course Class A2 is not good.
I feel the 805 in Class A2 is necessary only for hi power over 30/40 output Watts.
This is correct??
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For a 15W, I definitely recommend the 6C33C SE, on page 4, the second amp picture from top is the 6C33C SE that I have built. This is a great sounding tube, it does not have the midrange purity of DHT 845/211/212... , but it sounded so coherent from top to bottom, very clean. For an amp to sound better than the 6C33C, you will have to spend quite a large amount of money for a good pair of output/interstage transformer, then even more for the tubes! The rugged 6C33C tubes at less than $40, is the greatest bargain of all time!
Great post, I have this question in mind for years, Thanks for informing us. :thumb:
Iam a fan of the 6C33, GM70 and 805. The 6C33 OPTs are not expensives, I like this tube especially for its low impedance, metal plate and ready avaliable hi quality sockets at low prices.
I also read good talk about the 6C33 treble and the bass is notoriously powerful.
The 6C33 & GM70 are cheap tubes, the 805 are rare and expensive.
So the way to go for a powerfull SET is only 6C33 or GM70, IMO.
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The 6C33C is a very low Rp tube so the output transformer design can have very wide bandwidth, the plate is graphite by the way. The GM70 is also a great sounding tube that can compete head to head with the 845, but for a fraction of the price at less than $50 a piece, the GM70 amp is harder to build since the required voltage is about 5 times the 6C33C.
So save your money on these Russian tube and spend as much as you can for the power/interstage transformer, you will end up with a nice sounding amp.
By the way, I like the 6C33C tube so much that I built a tri-amp system, with 6 dedicated 6C33C amp with built active xover, the system sounded spectacular.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81780)
Great post, I have this question in mind for years, Thanks for informing us. :thumb:
Iam a fan of the 6C33, GM70 and 805. The 6C33 OPTs are not expensives, I like this tube especially for its low impedance, metal plate and ready avaliable hi quality sockets at low prices.
I also read good talk about the 6C33 treble and the bass is notoriously powerful.
The 6C33 & GM70 are cheap tubes, the 805 are rare and expensive.
So the way to go for a powerfull SET is only 6C33 or GM70, IMO.
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Why do you like so much interstage transformers in your amps??
Any sound quality relation??
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Thanks for the rec, I was thinking GM70 but will certainly check out the 6C33C, I had not considered that tube before.
In your 6C33C amp, what are you using for a driver tube and what did the input sensitivity turn out to be? Can I ask how much you spent on your 6C33C and GM70 amps? My projects are modest in comparison, but I still spent A LOT of cash on parts, nearly $1k each for the Aikido and EL34 SET.
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Thanks for the rec, I was thinking GM70 but will certainly check out the 6C33C, I had not considered that tube before.
In your 6C33C amp, what are you using for a driver tube and what did the input sensitivity turn out to be? Can I ask how much you spent on your 6C33C and GM70 amps? My projects are modest in comparison, but I still spent A LOT of cash on parts, nearly $1k each for the Aikido and EL34 SET.
GM70 OPT are expensive, same for a good socket(Yamamoto or Kara Chaffe):
http://www.tubewizard.com/tube_sockets.htm
Stay away from this crap socket:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=59983)
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There are many advantage with intertstage transformer.
- Capacitor coupled measured better but interstage sounded so much better, the most obvious is from the bass to the midrange. I have not tried the expensive capacitor in the market (the silver and other outragously priced cap).
- With capacitor coupled the driver stage need almost twice the voltage to get the same output swing.
The ony thing is you want to get the interstage that has better bandwith than your output transformer, if not it will be the limiting factor to your amp sound.
quote author=FULLRANGEMAN link=topic=68194.msg1231491#msg1231491 date=1370560790]
Why do you like so much interstage transformers in your amps??
Any sound quality relation??
[/quote]
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I used the C3G tube, in both triode and pentode mode, the sensivity is about 1.5Vrms, in pentode mode the input need ony about 0.5Vrms if I remember corectly.
The GM70 is much more expensive to build, and it depends on the transformer, you can spend as much as three thousands for just a good set of interstage/output transformer. The 6C33C you can get pretty good sound without interstage, so it will cost much lower, also lower voltage parts are much cheaper.
Thanks for the rec, I was thinking GM70 but will certainly check out the 6C33C, I had not considered that tube before.
In your 6C33C amp, what are you using for a driver tube and what did the input sensitivity turn out to be? Can I ask how much you spent on your 6C33C and GM70 amps? My projects are modest in comparison, but I still spent A LOT of cash on parts, nearly $1k each for the Aikido and EL34 SET.
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There are many advantage with intertstage transformer.
- Capacitor coupled measured better but interstage sounded so much better, the most obvious is from the bass to the midrange. I have not tried the expensive capacitor in the market (the silver and other outragously priced cap).
- With capacitor coupled the driver stage need almost twice the voltage to get the same output swing.
The ony thing is you want to get the interstage that has better bandwith than your output transformer, if not it will be the limiting factor to your amp sound.
quote author=FULLRANGEMAN link=topic=68194.msg1231491#msg1231491 date=1370560790]
Why do you like so much interstage transformers in your amps??
Any sound quality relation??
Thanks Unison for your expert advise. Much more clear now. :thumb:
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What interstage/OPT are you using in the 10y/10y/211 amp?
I am thinking about a 801A/211 amp (with input transformer) and was considering Tribute iron.
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I used Tango NC15 (the white one on the right) , mounted underneath the chassis.
I dont want to use input transformer because you will need a preamp with 600 ohms output. Also good quality input transformer is expensive.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81994)
What interstage/OPT are you using in the 10y/10y/211 amp?
I am thinking about a 801A/211 amp (with input transformer) and was considering Tribute iron.
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This is the amplifier frequency response at 20W into 8 ohms load, with zero feedback.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81995)
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I used Tango NC15 (the white one on the right) , mounted underneath the chassis.
I dont want to use input transformer because you will need a preamp with 600 ohms output. Also good quality input transformer is expensive.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=81994)
You must have a nice stash of Tango transformers :green:
IMO good input transformers are quite a bit cheaper than the going rates for old Tango IT/OPT. Cheaper than the good Tango ISO as well.
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I have not tried many input transformer (600: 15K-20K), but I did tried some UTC A11, LS151, and I prefer Input gain stage with tube. There is always pros and cons, unless you have a really good input transformer with great bandwith, and a low impedance source to drive it, I think input tube has advantage, yes tube does adds its own coloration, you have to choose one that matched your system, but it will sound more dynamic than any passive device.
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BAD NEWS, really BAD NEWS:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/237596-iso-tango-quite.html
I guess Tango is shutting the door for good this time!
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This 2013 year is being awful for many persons and companies, except banks.
More one year of crisis.
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Any idea why they are shutting down?
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I did put an order for Tango 2 weeks before shutdown, they did not take my order.
Any idea why they are shutting down?
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That was Sep 2013, Tagon ISO closed their doors. March 2016, after two years and a half, I received the first new Tango transformers from Wavac and design them in my WE21E mono block amplifiers. It's a GM70 driving we212E amplifier.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139302)
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Wow! Please post a picture of them in full glow.
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Listen to WE 212E with stacked Quad/Janszen at night.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139310)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139311)
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Nice! Thank you.
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Nice ambiant mood-light and great sound I am sure...
Thanks.
Guy 13
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Where are you located?
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Bay area.
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Great looking work!
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Amplifier for Stax Electrostatic Headphones. The Staxes sound amazing with SE DHT amplifier. Here is an 845 SE amplifier tested few STax headphones , vintage from 1975 to 2018.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198948)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198949)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198950)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198951)
driving Staxes.
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Wow, I dont mind to be your neighbour...
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My Horn active system 2017 , with 6 tube amps and a solid state amp (for sub) with active crossover.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198954)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198955)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198952)
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WOW! Thanks for posting. :thumb:
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How does it sound?
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Very Dynamic, detailed sound that you can listen to music for hours. Single amp speaker always sound compressed at high level, multi amp speaker is the way to go.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200403)
Tôi cũng đã dùng 10Y để lái 211! rất tuyệt vời
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200403)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209952)
01 driving 10Y driving 845 Parallel Single ended. The sound is powerful but soft.