[Early B.]

Note: I can't move the Sofa from the rear wall.

This is why the diagonal option won't work for the OP.

[poseidonsvoice]

I meant it's a sectional sofa, so you move it as a block, and it's still on the rear wall, but a different one.

...

As Early B just said and I had reverified a few posts before, the OP will not move the sectional away from a wall.

Best,
Anand.

[Zitoun]

To all last comments, that will be a huge negociation with my wife, but not impossible if there is a huge benefit.

So I will try it with my current system and see if that works well. I do have to reset up the dining area too, so at least 2-3 hours of work, but I am curious to hear the result.

[Carl V]

good luck with these "real world' living conditions.

If you could demo a pair of OHM speakers, they might
get you part of the way there.

[youngho]

An example worth a thousand word, so tell me if there are no soundstage, Imaging in these songs. I feel they have soundstage when I listen to a good pair of headphones and amp:  (sorry for the YT

I am not saying that there isn't soundstage or imaging, but what would "the feeling of being there" mean in the context of Squarepusher, where the impression of depth is created through reverb? Or in the Roots, where the soundstage was created by the studio engineer, as each instrument and the vocalists were likely recorded as individual channels and then mixed?

I also like electronic music, so to give you several older examples: Thievery Corporation and much of pop and rock tends to have a very left, right, middle soundstage (or in the case of The XX, left, just left of middle, just right of middle, and right); Bajofondo has a number of musicians whom they tend to spread out from left to right, making for a more interesting soundstage experience; Orbital does a lot of pan-pot imaging, while Radiohead also uses phase to create interesting imaging effects on OK Computer. In none of these recordings can I possibly have a "feeling of being there," so I just enjoy them as studio creations without trying to imagine the acoustic space. To give a few non-classical and non-jazz counter examples, the Cowboy Junkies' Trinity sessions convey a sense of the space in which the recording was done, and even some of the tracks on the Lumineers' first album was engineered to simulate such a sense (https://www.soundonsound.com/people/inside-track-lumineers and https://www.soundonsound.com/people/mix-review-32). Classical and jazz music is also engineered, so I have solo violin recordings where I can very clearly hear breathing and jazz recordings where the drum kit seems to occupy the entire space from left to right, and in neither case do I really have a "feeling of being there," since that would mean that I would be sitting absurdly close to the performers.

The biggest problems with your room are the asymmetry and the listening position. I would recommend trying the absorption (in front of fireplace and along the wall behind your head) that I mentioned before with your existing speakers in your original proposed stereo setup. This should enhance imaging and soundstaging, but the resulting acoustic may seem a little "dry" to you.

If you think these type of music does not fit with audiophile type of gears, then you are right I will stop looking for it.

It's not the type of music that's the issue but what you seem to be seeking.

On Subwoofer, yes that's a good observation, I like the JL Audio I auditioned, and I just finished reading the thread on mono/stereo subs, that will be a good investment for me, but I will love  first a richer enveloping sound.

You might take a look at seeing if it's possible to audition any omnidirectional speakers in your area. Perhaps you could link to the stores nearby where you've been auditioning.

[Tyson]

That sense of 'being there' often is a result of high efficiency, high dynamics in the speakers.  You might look at some of the higher end JBL or Klipsch Heritage speakers to get you there.  One thing I really like about my Forte III's is they are designed to work best pushed up close to a wall. 

I'd avoid lower end Klipsch though (like the RP series), they just don't sound that good, IME.  Especially compared to what the Heritage line can do. 

[Letitroll98]

To all last comments, that will be a huge negociation with my wife, but not impossible if there is a huge benefit.

So I will try it with my current system and see if that works well. I do have to reset up the dining area too, so at least 2-3 hours of work, but I am curious to hear the result.

Yes, it was "impossible" to move my son's sectional in their new house.  Until it was moved to where I suggested.  Whatever you decide you did the right thing eliciting opinions, it gives you a larger menu to choose from.

[Zitoun]

good luck with these "real world' living conditions.

If you could demo a pair of OHM speakers, they might
get you part of the way there.

I think you just nailed it in few words, ohm sounds like exactly what I am looking for, unfortunately they are on a direct factory distribution model, so quiet difficult to have a good idea of the sound quality, plus the technology is pretty confidential and reserved to a niche, so that makes it a risky move. I will definitely investigate if I can find some to audition around vancouver.

[Zitoun]

I am not saying that there isn't soundstage or imaging, but what would "the feeling of being there" mean in the context of Squarepusher, where the impression of depth is created through reverb? Or in the Roots, where the soundstage was created by the studio engineer, as each instrument and the vocalists were likely recorded as individual channels and then mixed?

I also like electronic music, so to give you several older examples: Thievery Corporation and much of pop and rock tends to have a very left, right, middle soundstage (or in the case of The XX, left, just left of middle, just right of middle, and right); Bajofondo has a number of musicians whom they tend to spread out from left to right, making for a more interesting soundstage experience; Orbital does a lot of pan-pot imaging, while Radiohead also uses phase to create interesting imaging effects on OK Computer. In none of these recordings can I possibly have a "feeling of being there,"

Maybe I got Lost in translation with the word soundstage. And sorry for your patience, I am starting this journey with the best intentions.

In my experience I have been in couple of concerts, and in almost all of them including acoustic, you always had a sound system to amplify the volume for the public. So you end up listening to the reproduction of the instrument through the talent of a sound engineers already, and the acoustic of the room.

So when I am listening I am not necessarily looking at the very exact location of the hand of the singer on his lips, but I'm looking at the sensation that I am at an event with the room or place filled with the music and stereo cues generated by any type of music (could be electro stereo digital arrangements, jazz instruments etc...).

I agree with you it's a bit far-fetched to try having the feeling of being 2 meters away from a singer, as this is not really realistic anyway. I listened to a pair of Wilson doing that, it's great, but very unnatural. Obviously I am not a big fan of exagereted acoustic 

To give you an idea I loved the sound of the Martin Logan Esl, because of the dipole effect, and interaction with the room.
So I think part of the solution is the room acoustic, and the other part the speaker technology.
Thank for your feedback, it helps me a lot to get there. Also thanks for the music reference I ll listen to this when I ll do the test with the new layouts this weekend.

[Zitoun]

That sense of 'being there' often is a result of high efficiency, high dynamics in the speakers.  You might look at some of the higher end JBL or Klipsch Heritage speakers to get you there.  One thing I really like about my Forte III's is they are designed to work best pushed up close to a wall. 

I'd avoid lower end Klipsch though (like the RP series), they just don't sound that good, IME.  Especially compared to what the Heritage line can do.

You are right I like the horn effect, but I had a better sensation of being into the music with electro magnetic which has low efficiency and are not very dynamic. It's  all subjective aparently    . I think I value a lot more the transparency, the speed, the fact that there are no resonances with a cabinet, makes me feel that the resolution is a lot higher and the sound a lot more airy than in boxed speakers. Especially with acid jazz or digital music where vert high and very low frequency can happen almost are the same time, with a frenetic speed, that is very appealing to not have the cabinet effect.

Again I think part of the solution is to fix the room first, but I think the dipole effect que the previous characteristics are what I am looking for.

Maybe klipsch will do a electromagnetic horn speaker one day 

[WGH]

...what could possibly be the cheapest way to improve the system... turn on the stereo and make everybody dance and/or listen to appreciate the emotion filling the room.

Looking at your current setup and pondering your predicament, it appears the existing layout works for the entire family, your problem is the sound, which can be easily fixed without too much trouble or money. Put the B&W speakers in the garage and try out a pair of Fritz speakers
http://www.fritzspeakers.com/

Fritz speakers are easy to drive so you can keep your current amp, they may look small (16"h x 9"w x 12"d) but they can boogie, I have heard them many times at RMAF when Fritz was doing shows and his room was always one of my favorites.

Because you have an open space take a look at the Carera BE speaker, $2800 and I guarantee you will not be disappointed.
http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Speakers-Stand-Mounted/FRITZ-SPEAKERS-.COM/CARRERA-BE/EDITORS-CHOICE-AWARD-WINNING-LOUDSPEAKERS-WITH-SERIES-XOVERS/172271

http://fritzspeakers.com/CarreraBESpecifications.htm



Read the reviews then give Fritz a call, you will be glad you did.

[Zitoun]

Yes, it was "impossible" to move my son's sectional in their new house.  Until it was moved to where I suggested.  Whatever you decide you did the right thing eliciting opinions, it gives you a larger menu to choose from.

Hello everybody, before I jump straight to the conclusion, I'd like to thank every contributor on this thread, because to put this simply, I have never ever heard my sytem performing that well, I feel that I have bought new speakers, and a sub... . even when I auditioned my system 8 years ago, it was far from what I got today.



Here is the final ssetup, I know you'll tell me that the sofa is not on the rear wall, and believe me that was a very hard sell !.
But after 2 days of listening and watching movies... the difference was such that the new setup has been Wife approved ! 


I tried all variations and orientation, but only this setup gave sonic satisfaction. I can now hear clearly the soundstage, a lot more definition, and my god the Bass is so deep now ... I do not even recognize my speakers. The dynamic is huge but I can also  hear the mids at low level

I now understand when people say that Acoustic was their best investment. I am glad that I followed your recommendation and the Audiophile Mantra.
- Think Acoustic and speakers first, then you'll look at electronics and cable fine tuning.
- Never buy before you listen
- Trust only your hears.

Now that you helped me in 1 week figure out a 8 years issue, my next steps for me will be to focus on the speaker's technology.
I'll be looking at adding more definition, speed, clarity and openess to the sound. So I think I won't invest in acoustic panel until I got the new pair of speakers.
As per my auditions, I will be looking at open Baflle or electromagnetic panels.

- Here is my first thread on speakers if you'd like to comment.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167816.msg1780392#msg1780392

Thanks again guys you're just awesome experts !

[sunnydaze]

Looks like the left speaker is in or on the fireplace.  What am I missing?   

[poseidonsvoice]

Looks like the left speaker is in or on the fireplace.  What am I missing?   

Sunny D

Here is a link to his updated layout:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158550.msg1781001#msg1781001

Best,
Anand.

[sunnydaze]

Gotcha.   

Right in front of the fireplace.  Careful you don't fry a driver.