The best of the best ?

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Guy 13

The best of the best ?
« on: 31 Oct 2012, 09:44 am »
Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.

What is your best sounding speaker/enclosure?

Please, let me re-phrase that:

Which of your speakers/enclosure offer the best value,
in the category of non OB.
I am thinking about the N3 style enclosure (TL).

Guy 13

 

Danny Richie

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #1 on: 31 Oct 2012, 02:02 pm »
I am guessing that you meant to post this in the GR Research circle?

Of our non-OB kits our N3 has been our most popular and represents a very high value and performance level that is a notch above our other kits.

Letitroll98

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Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #2 on: 31 Oct 2012, 02:50 pm »
If Guy 13 does want it moved to the GR circle let me know and it'll be done.  Or perhaps it is a general question using the N3 as a reference point?  I've always liked the elegance of design in a transmission line, but with the extra cabinetry, it might not be the best value economically.  However best sounding was also mentioned.  So one has to decide how much value you place on sound quality.  For example if a sealed box design was $200 cheaper and sounded 90% as good as a TL design, would that be the better value.     

Danny Richie

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #3 on: 31 Oct 2012, 03:54 pm »
Quote
So one has to decide how much value you place on sound quality.  For example if a sealed box design was $200 cheaper and sounded 90% as good as a TL design, would that be the better value.


Yeah good point. I am still blowing out X-LS Encore kits for $149 a pair, and those things sound great too.   

Guy 13

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #4 on: 1 Nov 2012, 12:20 am »
I am guessing that you meant to post this in the GR Research circle?

Of our non-OB kits our N3 has been our most popular and represents a very high value and performance level that is a notch above our other kits.

Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.

Yes, sorry it's my mistake.

I wanted to post it on your circle.

I will try not to do it again.

My original idea was to build a N3TL,
but that was more costly than the plain N3,
but who knows,
I might build the N3TL,
when I win the Vietnamese lottery.

Guy 13

Guy 13

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #5 on: 1 Nov 2012, 12:26 am »
If Guy 13 does want it moved to the GR circle let me know and it'll be done.  Or perhaps it is a general question using the N3 as a reference point?  I've always liked the elegance of design in a transmission line, but with the extra cabinetry, it might not be the best value economically.  However best sounding was also mentioned.  So one has to decide how much value you place on sound quality.  For example if a sealed box design was $200 cheaper and sounded 90% as good as a TL design, would that be the better value.   

I Letitroll98 and all Audio Circle members.

I did a lot of calculation to see what would be the best GR Research price/sound quality ratio in Danny's kits offerings.

At first I wanted to buy the OB-7, but I did not like the sub bottom section,
then the N3TL was what I wanted to build,
but because of my poor mans budget,
I decided to go with the N3 and that's what I did
and I am happy with the results.

However, I am still searching to see which speaker kit offers more
(Sound quality) for the money.

I must say again, I wish Danny's drivers would be more sensitive.
(95 to 98 would be perfect match for my
Decware SE-84C+ (2wpc) amplifier.

Guy 13

Letitroll98

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Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #6 on: 1 Nov 2012, 03:06 am »
Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.

Yes, sorry it's my mistake.

I wanted to post it on your circle.

I will try not to do it again.


Hey, no problem at all Guy, your wish is my command.  I'll move it to Danny's circle for you.

GR Research products are always welcome to be presented to a more general audience in the Enclosures circle, but I agree that the question is more specific here.     

Guy 13

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #7 on: 1 Nov 2012, 01:24 pm »

Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.

Who’s not looking to find and buy the best of the best?
Unfortunately, most of the time, you cannot afford the best of the best, so you settle for something good or very good,
but not best of the best.

I am trying to see what would be my best (of the best) speaker purchase/acquisition for the years to come.

I don’t want to keep looking and keep buying forever something always better than the previous acquisition, but never being satisfied.

You know what I mean.

I don’t want to be the guy that’s never satisfied
with what he’s got
and always search for better and better
and spend a fortune doing that and
at the end, he’s still never satisfied.

If you don’t mind the exercise, (For me anyway and maybe for other Audio Circle members)
let’s try to build a good speaker system from scratch.

Of course, I will stick only to GR Research products.

Tweeter:
Dome or planar magnetic transducer?
The planar magnetic transducer Neo 3 is better,
I have one on my N3, but it’s also much more expensive.
My ears are almost 65 years old and probably limited to 16K Hz,
therefore I am considering the GR-T3 or the T26SG,
I would like to go with the T26SG but it’s almost twice the price of the GR-T3?
Decision pending.

Mids:
M130 or M165?
Open baffle or bass reflex?
Open baffle takes more room behind them to give their full potential,
however, later on, I will be living in an apartment; therefore probably I won’t have much room to spare.
I like the idea/design of the N3TL.
Look nice, it’s as a small foot print.
Which as the better audio performance?
The OB-7 (Top section) or the N3TL ?
Decision pending.

Note:
I also like the coaxial approach,
but would need/prefer the small 8”, unfortunately,
to my ears, the 8” does not sound as good as the big 12”
on the V1
and I still need back room, unless I go bass reflex?

Bass: (Subwoofer, active and servo of course)
Open baffle, vented or sealed?
(I already own two Rythmik F12G that are almost new
and paid for.)
Open baffle subwoofer need a least 3 to 5 foot behind them, right?
I think the open baffle subwoofer sound the best according to the tests I did with my V1, V2 and F12G.
But again, later on, I won’t have the required room for those.
Vented or sealed?
I prefer vented. They are more efficient, not much bigger than their sealed counterpart.
Sealed, well, I have two already and with vented and/or sealed,
they are more flexible than the V1, V2 because you can put them where they perform the best.
Since I have the (paid for) Rythmik F12G, I think that’s what I will use, however, if the V1 or V2 subwoofer section can be pushed against or very close to a wall, I would prefer that option, since I also have the V1 and V2.
I wonder what would be the minimum distance behind the V1 or V2 that would not degrade their sound quality.

Not an easy decision to make, this time, I do need some help to make the right choice.
I am not as demanding as I use to be, when my ears where better.
I will be using my stereo sound system 50% for cinema and 50% for music.
The room will be small and the listening level with me around 80db.

Waiting for help, constructive comments, suggestions and/or anything useful.

Guy 13



 
 





 

 



Danny Richie

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #8 on: 1 Nov 2012, 03:12 pm »
Guy,

If you go with one of our kits then the best advice I can give you, with whatever you build, is to build them as designed.

And with all of our kits I have always felt that if more money is spent (the kit cost more) then more performance is expected. The designs that I have worked on that are never released are designs that cost more but don't out perform less costly kits that I offer.

With my designs you get what you pay for.

Early B.

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #9 on: 1 Nov 2012, 05:05 pm »
With my designs you get what you pay for.

That's a very modest statement.

django11

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Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #10 on: 1 Nov 2012, 05:32 pm »
I have just been listening to my N3s after having finally done room treatments.   I swapped tubes in my diy tube pre and holy sh#t!  Man I feel like I am finally there!  Everything is sounding terrific now.  Stuff I couldn't listen to before sounds great!  And the stuff that sounded great sounds even better!  I am very happy, the N3 is a terrific speaker!  For the price of the kit compared to what I see in stores the N3 is an incredible value!

  And  I really  can't recommend room treatments enough.  Until they are done you are just wasting your money with changes because the potential of what you already have is not revealed ( in this vein I wonder what those bypass caps I tried and didn't like would sound like now?).

Guy 13

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #11 on: 2 Nov 2012, 10:51 am »
Guy,

If you go with one of our kits then the best advice I can give you, with whatever you build, is to build them as designed.

And with all of our kits I have always felt that if more money is spent (the kit cost more) then more performance is expected. The designs that I have worked on that are never released are designs that cost more but don't out perform less costly kits that I offer.

With my designs you get what you pay for.


Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.

WOW !
That’s not the kind of answer/comments
I was expecting from you Danny Ritchie !

I was more looking for advice and/or comments on each items mentioned in my post,
but I understand, you are busy with other more important stuff
and why comments when everything you sell is good…

Since I cannot try and evaluate each and every item you sell
or for which I am interested, I will have to find the information on the Internet…

I will try to get reviews or real experience from Audio Circle members.

Well, that’s life.

Guy 13

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #12 on: 2 Nov 2012, 12:41 pm »
Guy, I'm not Danny, but I think you may have misunderstood his reply. . .

Your question (if I read it correctly) was:

"Which of Danny's kits offers the most/"best" sound quality for the dollar?"

Then, you asked three follow up questions:

"Which tweeter Danny is offering is the 'best'?"
"Which enclosure type among Danny's kits is the 'best'?"
"Which configuration of subs - open baffle V1/V2 or sealed Rythmik F12G - is the 'best'?"

To your first question, I DO NOT think Danny meant, "They're all good!  Just pick one."  I think what he meant to say (again to answer your first question) is that at each price point (dollar amount) each kit is sold for, it is the best design he could create using the outlined parts and enclosures.  Meaning, every kit he sells regardless of price (because there are many "kits" he designs that never get sold because they do not meet this criteria) is the best sound quality for the dollar AT EACH PRICE that he can deliver. 

So, maybe put another way, what he is saying is that it really is just up to you to decide on how much money you would like to invest, and for that amount of money - no matter how much that is - you will be getting the absolute best sound quality Danny can deliver.  It is less a question of which speaker is "better", but more a matter of how much you want to spend.  Further, in saying the more you spend (more expensive kit), the more "sound quality" you are going to get, what is being said is that you will subjectively get "more sound quality" the higher up the price scale of kit you go. 

In other words, for example, it is not like the N3 kit is actually "better" than the V1 kit, even though the V1 kit costs more; you just need to decide for yourself how much "better" is worth your dollar to invest for you to be satisfied.  In short, pick the price you want to spend, get the most kit you can for that money, and be satisfied knowing that for that amount of money, Danny could deliver no better.

Danny's last (first?) piece of advice for you is probably the most direct - to get the ABSOLUTE MOST out of whatever kit he has to offer, he is suggesting that you have your builder construct the cabinets just as designed.  Anything other than (minor) artistic variations means you are maybe not getting ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in sound quality Danny designed into the speaker.  Building kits is fun and trying out new stuff is fun, too (I did the same things as you in the past - see my sealed paudio coax speaker here on the boards), but if you are looking to find your "last speaker" and spend the least amount of money to get there, going with the design as written out will get you there a lot faster for a lot less money.

Using this knowledge, your thoughts on investing your money wisely, and looking at what you already have, I would suggest the following, assuming you can place the speakers three feet out into the room (don't worry as much about small rooms with these open baffles, other folks here on AC have had great results doing just that):

Rebuild either the V2 (using parts you already have) or order a set of the open baffle 12" servo subs and amps from Danny and rebuild your V1 - either way, have your builder build the cabinets just as designed.

Ask Danny about, and have your builder add some mass to the cabinets your F12G subs are already in.  Put these subs in the back of your listening room along with the V1/V2.  Adjust everything to taste/measurements.

This will use the most of what you have, get you the most speaker for your dollar, let you use your nice amplifier easily, give you enough speaker to maybe play with upgrading everything else in the chain over time while still seeing improvements/results, and put you nearly to the top of the line in the kits Danny offers.

Then, later, have your builder construct Danny's N3TL cabinets as designed and build out the N3TL kit for a second set of speakers for your bedroom.  At some point, when or if you upgrade or change your amp out for something else, your current one would make a fine pairing for very nice music in your second system.

In the end, what I'm saying, from the best I can see based on reading your past build threads, is that it looks to me like you have most of or all of the parts for an absolutely AMAZING system already in your hands; you just need to put the pieces together in the right configuration to make it happen.

Hope this helps. . .

Guy 13

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #13 on: 2 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm »
Guy, I'm not Danny, but I think you may have misunderstood his reply. . .

Your question (if I read it correctly) was:

"Which of Danny's kits offers the most/"best" sound quality for the dollar?"

Then, you asked three follow up questions:

"Which tweeter Danny is offering is the 'best'?"
"Which enclosure type among Danny's kits is the 'best'?"
"Which configuration of subs - open baffle V1/V2 or sealed Rythmik F12G - is the 'best'?"

To your first question, I DO NOT think Danny meant, "They're all good!  Just pick one."  I think what he meant to say (again to answer your first question) is that at each price point (dollar amount) each kit is sold for, it is the best design he could create using the outlined parts and enclosures.  Meaning, every kit he sells regardless of price (because there are many "kits" he designs that never get sold because they do not meet this criteria) is the best sound quality for the dollar AT EACH PRICE that he can deliver. 

So, maybe put another way, what he is saying is that it really is just up to you to decide on how much money you would like to invest, and for that amount of money - no matter how much that is - you will be getting the absolute best sound quality Danny can deliver.  It is less a question of which speaker is "better", but more a matter of how much you want to spend.  Further, in saying the more you spend (more expensive kit), the more "sound quality" you are going to get, what is being said is that you will subjectively get "more sound quality" the higher up the price scale of kit you go. 

In other words, for example, it is not like the N3 kit is actually "better" than the V1 kit, even though the V1 kit costs more; you just need to decide for yourself how much "better" is worth your dollar to invest for you to be satisfied.  In short, pick the price you want to spend, get the most kit you can for that money, and be satisfied knowing that for that amount of money, Danny could deliver no better.

Danny's last (first?) piece of advice for you is probably the most direct - to get the ABSOLUTE MOST out of whatever kit he has to offer, he is suggesting that you have your builder construct the cabinets just as designed.  Anything other than (minor) artistic variations means you are maybe not getting ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in sound quality Danny designed into the speaker.  Building kits is fun and trying out new stuff is fun, too (I did the same things as you in the past - see my sealed paudio coax speaker here on the boards), but if you are looking to find your "last speaker" and spend the least amount of money to get there, going with the design as written out will get you there a lot faster for a lot less money.

Using this knowledge, your thoughts on investing your money wisely, and looking at what you already have, I would suggest the following, assuming you can place the speakers three feet out into the room (don't worry as much about small rooms with these open baffles, other folks here on AC have had great results doing just that):

Rebuild either the V2 (using parts you already have) or order a set of the open baffle 12" servo subs and amps from Danny and rebuild your V1 - either way, have your builder build the cabinets just as designed.

Ask Danny about, and have your builder add some mass to the cabinets your F12G subs are already in.  Put these subs in the back of your listening room along with the V1/V2.  Adjust everything to taste/measurements.

This will use the most of what you have, get you the most speaker for your dollar, let you use your nice amplifier easily, give you enough speaker to maybe play with upgrading everything else in the chain over time while still seeing improvements/results, and put you nearly to the top of the line in the kits Danny offers.

Then, later, have your builder construct Danny's N3TL cabinets as designed and build out the N3TL kit for a second set of speakers for your bedroom.  At some point, when or if you upgrade or change your amp out for something else, your current one would make a fine pairing for very nice music in your second system.

In the end, what I'm saying, from the best I can see based on reading your past build threads, is that it looks to me like you have most of or all of the parts for an absolutely AMAZING system already in your hands; you just need to put the pieces together in the right configuration to make it happen.

Hope this helps. . .

Hi Jonathon and all Audio Circle members.

Thanks for the comments.

Does it helps?
Well : Yes and no,
but thanks anyway.

By the way, I have all the necessary components of the V1,
I am now building a new enclosure for them.

Guy 13

Danny Richie

Re: The best of the best ?
« Reply #14 on: 2 Nov 2012, 01:48 pm »
Quote
I think what he meant to say (again to answer your first question) is that at each price point (dollar amount) each kit is sold for, it is the best design he could create using the outlined parts and enclosures.  Meaning, every kit he sells regardless of price (because there are many "kits" he designs that never get sold because they do not meet this criteria) is the best sound quality for the dollar AT EACH PRICE that he can deliver. 

Yep, that was what I meant.