lack of output from OB subs

drphoto · « **on:** 24 Mar 2013, 07:21 pm »

Hey all, some time back I built a pair of H-Frame with a pair of SW-12.16FR in each box. Each box is powered by it's own A370PEQ. I really don't get much output, no matter how I set the control on the amps. When I turn them up to where I get some kick, the speakers are over driven and start making the dreaded 'farting' noise. Now I'm NOT trying to play at arena volume levels mains putting out maybe 85dB. After all the great things I read, I did expect some visceral impact from the kick drum. About all I can get is just a bit of low level fill below what is supplied by my Merlin TSM monitors.

I followed the a wiring diagram that was posted here a long time ago for the Super V. Does it sound like something is miswired? One thing out of the ordinary, the amps are not connected directly to the speakers by the wiring harness. I've added in about 10ft of speaker wire, keeping the amps near the equipment rack.

My listening room is huge compared to most. System is in a balcony that is about 25x20x8 over looking a room that is 20x60x20. I would think this would be an advantage, as I shouldn't have the typical problems of standing waves that occur in small rooms.

thanks for any advice

PDR · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Mar 2013, 08:10 pm »

They sound like theyre miss wired. My V-1s were like that the first time I wired them.
Had to do it again to get it correct, once they were, Bam, there is was.
I also had about 8' of cable on them, didnt effect them, they sound the same as my current SV
with only 3' of cable.

jparkhur · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Mar 2013, 09:55 pm »

Remember. Amp red to first driver red then to next driver red. Parallel. Same for black negative. Your servo, smaller wires should be in series. Amp servo to driver out of that drivers other clip to next driver and then the last sub clip to the servo circuit for a circle/ series. Let us know, we can help you. You have a picture Yes out if phase then too. Drivers are facing opposite.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 01:37 am »

You have them mis-wired somehow. Look at the diagram again and compare. It sounds like they are out of phase. Remember if one faces the opposite direction in the H frame then electrically it has to be reversed.

Also, the long speaker wire connectors will cause some delay and loss of control. Mount the amp as close to the woofers are possible for the best results.

drphoto · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 01:53 am »

Ok, here's how I've got them wired. Red wire from "driver" goes to red terminal on speaker 1 "driver" terminal (black to black, of course) then a jumper connects the red to the black on the "driver" terminal of the second (rear firing) speaker. (and black to red) So they are electrically out of phase.

For the servo. The red goes to the red terminal on speaker 1, then a single wire jumps form the black servo terminal of speaker 1 to the red servo terminal of speaker 2. The black terminal of speaker 2 connects to the black servo lead from the amp. (making a loop)

I tried reversing the polarity of the servo leads. Nothing seems to help. Still very low output without drivers being overdriven.

When I have more time, I'll try to set it up getting rid of the speaker wire, but would that mess things up this much?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 02:03 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 25 Mar 2013, 01:53 am

Ok, here's how I've got them wired. Red wire from "driver" goes to red terminal on speaker 1 "driver" terminal (black to black, of course) then a jumper connects the red to the black on the "driver" terminal of the second (rear firing) speaker. (and black to red) So they are electrically out of phase.

For the servo. The red goes to the red terminal on speaker 1, then a single wire jumps form the black servo terminal of speaker 1 to the red servo terminal of speaker 2. The black terminal of speaker 2 connects to the black servo lead from the amp. (making a loop)

I tried reversing the polarity of the servo leads. Nothing seems to help. Still very low output without drivers being overdriven.

When I have more time, I'll try to set it up getting rid of the speaker wire, but would that mess things up this much?

You didn't flip the phase on the sensing coil for the speaker facing the other direction. So it is stuck in a loop trying to make corrections but forcing the drivers in the wrong direction.

Check the wiring diagram and you'll see the mistake.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 03:07 am »

Hi drphoto and all Audio Circle members.
I had the same problem with my V1 (Lack of bass)
Danny told me to re-check my wiring, which I did two times.
Then I strip everything and started from scratch and
it worked.
Plenty of deep hi definition bass.

Guy 13

drphoto · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 01:30 am »

Ok, if I get rid of the extension wires and just use the dual wiring harness from the plate amp, should I just run the driver wires and servo wires directly to each speaker? (but wire one of them out of phase relative to the other) What I'm trying to say is that the speakers are not wired to each other, but but just to the amp via the dual harness.

I hope I can figure this out. I was all excited when I first got them, because I had virtually no low end w/ small monitors in a huge room, but after the initial excitement wore off, I started thinking I'm not getting nearly the performance people rave about.

thanks to all

Danny Richie · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 01:39 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 26 Mar 2013, 01:30 am

Ok, if I get rid of the extension wires and just use the dual wiring harness from the plate amp, should I just run the driver wires and servo wires directly to each speaker? (but wire one of them out of phase relative to the other) What I'm trying to say is that the speakers are not wired to each other, but but just to the amp via the dual harness.

I hope I can figure this out. I was all excited when I first got them, because I had virtually no low end w/ small monitors in a huge room, but after the initial excitement wore off, I started thinking I'm not getting nearly the performance people rave about.

thanks to all

I would move the amp closer, but you still have to follow the diagram. From what you stated above you have the polarity flipped on the sensing coils. Fix that and your world will change.

See diagram: http://gr-research.com/pdf/v-1%20ob%20woofer%20wiring.pdf

Danny Richie · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 01:46 am »

One other thing. If you got one of the older ones with the dual woofer wiring harnesses then the series wired sensing coils are built into the harness. So you just have to flip the polarity on both driver coils and sensing coils and you are good to go.

corndog71 · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 02:09 am »

If this is the first time you're using them they may also need a bit of breaking in. My single servo sub barely worked for the first hour or so but eventually opened up into the beast that it is.

drphoto · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 04:22 am »

I double checked the wiring both with the extensions and without, but I still am not getting that slam I'm guessing I'm just too dumb for DIY audio. Look for these in the Trading Post. 4 speakers, 2 amps, 2 dual wiring harnesses and original shipping boxes.

cujobob · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 04:28 am »

Mine was like this too by the guy I had build it for me...once I corrected it, it's all good. Do not sell them IMHO. See if someone can guide you over the phone?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 01:26 pm »

Try this.

Remove the wiring harness and wire them as per this diagram: http://gr-research.com/pdf/v-1%20ob%20woofer%20wiring.pdf

You can do it man. It will be worth it. Give it a shoot. As soon as you get these things wired correctly you be REALLY happy.

Davey · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 03:19 pm »

Danny,

That's not a wiring diagram.

You've got multiple folks here who weren't successful at getting the wiring polarities correct on their speakers. You need to supply a proper diagram that visibly shows woofer motion and fully explains the proper connections for both the main speaker leads and the feedback leads.

Also, an explanation of what you're achieving by mounting/wiring one driver in reverse might help the fellas.

Cheers,

Dave.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 05:19 pm »

Davey,

That diagram is in picture form, and is as easy to follow as I can make it. All is clearly marked and even color coded.

Showing woofer motion would be little more than a novelty.

AKLegal · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 05:22 pm »

Danny Richie · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 06:02 pm »

drphoto, what part of the country are you in?

opnly bafld · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 06:04 pm »

Quote from: Danny Richie on 31 Mar 2013, 06:02 pm

drphoto, what part of the country are you in?

Louisville according to his profile.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 Mar 2013, 06:32 pm »

Hey Doc,
Think of the difference between "+" and "-" as the difference between an artery and a vein.
"Visualize" the flow of the circuit like you would blood flow in the human body.
Like the wires are carrying power (oxygen) to the "load" on the circuit, (muscle groups).

I know.... it's weak. I wish I could help ya better buddy.
But diagnosing your illness is easier and cheaper that starting over.

Bob