[Peter J]

By and Large Larry,I think we are on the same page, with the exception of the mdf moisture attraction. It seems to me that what you are describing about your garage is about wicking from the concrete floor. 

Concrete will migrate moisture more than most people realize. Wanna check it? Tape a piece of plastic on the floor for a few days and if it accumulates condensation you'll know for sure.


If it were humidity, the whole panel would swell equally.

[lacro]

By and Large Larry,I think we are on the same page, with the exception of the mdf moisture attraction. It seems to me that what you are describing about your garage is about wicking from the concrete floor. 

Concrete will migrate moisture more than most people realize. Wanna check it? Tape a piece of plastic on the floor for a few days and if it accumulates condensation you'll know for sure.


If it were humidity, the whole panel would swell equally.

Peter,
 Your analysis is correct, but in my case, the MDF along with plywood, and OSB were all stored about 8" above the concrete floor, not on the floor. It was stored on shelf brackets with a 2 x4 attached. The lower half of the garage certainly sees cooler, moister air than the upper half.  I have some steel lying on the floor and it is rusted for sure, but that is why I stored these sheet goods above the floor. All I am saying is the swelling I witnessed was on the MDF , and not on the other sheet goods, but they do have water resistant glues where I don't believe MDF is water resistant at all.

 I am not sure I am on the right track at all. I am just having fun trying different things. I did a lot of sanding, and  put the first coat of epoxy on my cabinets today. Only time will tell if it was worth it. I do appreciate your input/opinions, and if you see me doing something dumb, please let me know.

Larry
 

[lacro]

those boxes are lookin good.  may I say, about crossover boards; get the sonicaps and mills resistors. now is the time. they will take your speakers up a couple of notches. or at least make your x-over boards very accessible because you will get the urge later. just sayin. I for one am anxious to see the final poduct here.

 Thanks for your suggestion. I am aware of the attributes of the upgrades available for the crossovers, but for my modest system, the inclusion of the upgrades would have almost doubled the cost of the kit, if I included the Norez. I am sure all the upgrades are worth the extra $ but I am new at this, and just getting this kit together, and seeing what it sounds like before moving to the next level is my current goal. I see this as just the beginning...

Larry

[lacro]

I did some more filling and sanding



Also, I changed my roundever to a 1/2" radius. I like it!



Mixed some epoxy, and thinned it 5% with Lacquer thinner



Rolled on this first coat with foam roller, and tipped it with a foam brush


Came out pretty good


Took a much deserved break with a couple of brews while listening to Pandora streaming to my netbook, connected to my homemade boombox. Chilled out while watching epoxy dry on the boxes.. "Life is good"




Larry

[Captainhemo]

I did some more filling and sanding

Been filling and sanding  a good part of the day myself. Man,  too many screw holes

Also, I changed my roundever to a 1/2" radius. I like it!

Looks good Larry

Took a much deserved break with a couple of brews while listening to Pandora streaming to my netbook, connected to my homemade boombox. Chilled out while watching epoxy dry on the boxes.. "Life is good"

Haha,  a few brews can make even the simplest things  seem amusing   

Looking real good Larry, keep it up !!

-jay

[Ron]

  Good job Larry on finishing your speaker cabinets! Using Epoxy to seal the porous MDF material is a good idea. They look very nice. Do you plan to leave them with just the Epoxy finish or do you plan to spray paint them with like a black lacquer finish?

Ron

[lacro]

Been filling and sanding  a good part of the day myself. Man,  too many screw holes

Looks good Larry

Haha,  a few brews can make even the simplest things  seem amusing   

Looking real good Larry, keep it up !!

-jay

 Jay.. Only those that have sanded MDF know how much fun we are having

Screw holes can be  a pain to fill, it may take two rounds to fill them as there always seems to be some divots after the first filling. I removed the screws on my baffle after the epoxy set, and one of them tore the MDF on the way out. I had to inject some epoxy into the slit, and clamp it I hope it doesn't show when all is done.

 I did a pretty big screw-up that took half a day to fix. I was going to level my low spots with epoxy filled with micro balloons which are hollow spheres that allow for easier sanding/fairing, similar to using bondo. However, when I mixed my epoxy in my basement, I didn't turn on all the lights. I picked the wrong jar, thinking I had the micro balloons, but I actually picked graphite powder which I use to color epoxy black, in very small amounts.

 I slathered the mix all over the seams and low spots not realizing my mistake till I was done Soo.... most of yesterday was spent sanding off the graphite which left a black powder all over me. I board sanded most of it, and I actually resorted to my ROS sander which I had vowed not to use at all on these boxes

 I got most of it off except the screw holes on the baffles which is why they are black

Larry

[lacro]

  Good job Larry on finishing your speaker cabinets! Using Epoxy to seal the porous MDF material is a good idea. They look very nice. Do you plan to leave them with just the Epoxy finish or do you plan to spray paint them with like a black lacquer finish?

Ron

 Thanks Ron... I am doing many things different than the norm such as rounding over all edges instead of only a few. I want a different look. I think I could have even done a 3/4" roundover.

 The epoxy is a sealer only, and the boxes will be painted. I will be doing 1-2 more rounds of epoxy with a goal of sealing/burying all seams. I may even use a narrow strip of light weight fiberglass (.75-1 oz.) on all seams, but that's getting carried away for sure.

 I have to be careful what I use for final finish. Lacquer doesn't play nice over epoxy as lacquer thinner dissolves epoxy. There is probably a transition primer that would work.
I really like marine enamels over epoxy. The one I use can be brushed, and looks like it's sprayed on. I do like the piano black look, but I don't know if I want to do that much work

 I have been kicking around the idea of painting the boxes a bright color such as red, yellow, or blue with black speaker stands?? Any thoughts are welcome...

 Something I could have tried, and I will try on my stands which are MDF as well is to stain the MDF with black water or alcohol based Analine dye or even just India ink. I will then seal the MDF with epoxy tinted with graphite (2-3) coats, and finish with just a clear such as automotive clearcoat or varnish. The dye/india ink would be the colored basecoat. The tinted epoxy will seal and bury the seams. The clearcoat or even varnish will seal, protect, and give the final sheen I desire. Sound like a plan??

 I am open to suggestions................


Larry

[django11]

I have seen and like stained mdf...

On you painting the speakers a bright color all I can say is:  you must be single. 

[Ron]

  Larry,

  I would think that a marine enamel over the epoxy sealer would provide a very hard and durable finish. You are correct that lacquer thinner
wouldn't do well on the epoxy base sealer. Recently read that to use a colored lacquered paint on MDF requires several base coats of clear lacquer sealer first  and lightly sanding between  coats. Then spray on several coats of colored lacquer, also lightly sanding between coats ( 400 grit or finer) and then final finish with a clear lacquer top coat. I built some speakers several years ago that were finished in piano black by a professional automotive paint shop. The paint was a two part urethane based paint made by Dupont. I think Ruben ( outofthewoods) uses a similar type paint on the speakers he builds. The speakers looked really nice, but the paint job was very expensive due to the preparation labor and the high cost of the paint itself. Presently trying to complete a speaker building project myself,and trying to decide method to seal and paint. Presently leaning toward the colored lacquer ( satin black) finish as the best alternative.

Ron

[Captainhemo]

Jay.. Only those that have sanded MDF know how much fun we are having

Screw holes can be  a pain to fill, it may take two rounds to fill them as there always seems to be some divots after the first filling. I removed the screws on my baffle after the epoxy set, and one of them tore the MDF on the way out. I had to inject some epoxy into the slit, and clamp it I hope it doesn't show when all is done.

 I did a pretty big screw-up that took half a day to fix. I was going to level my low spots with epoxy filled with micro balloons which are hollow spheres that allow for easier sanding/fairing, similar to using bondo. However, when I mixed my epoxy in my basement, I didn't turn on all the lights. I picked the wrong jar, thinking I had the micro balloons, but I actually picked graphite powder which I use to color epoxy black, in very small amounts.

 I slathered the mix all over the seams and low spots not realizing my mistake till I was done Soo.... most of yesterday was spent sanding off the graphite which left a black powder all over me. I board sanded most of it, and I actually resorted to my ROS sander which I had vowed not to use at all on these boxes

 I got most of it off except the screw holes on the baffles which is why they are black

Larry

Ouch....I bet that stuff isn't easy to sand.  It would appear that you really did earn those  brews
After seeing all this,  I'm feeling  "guilty"  as if I'm shortcutting by only planning to  do  a couple coats of primer  then the TBL.

-jay

[lacro]

I have seen and like stained mdf...

On you painting the speakers a bright color all I can say is:  you must be single. 

My idea for the stain is to use it as the main color similar to base coat clear coat on cars.

Actually I am not single. I am just married to the greatest woman ever!!! These speakers  are for my
"man cave" actually just a spare, smallish bedroom. She likes the idea of red speakers, but in the end  I will probably chicken out, and go with black.

Larry

[lacro]

Ouch....I bet that stuff isn't easy to sand.  It would appear that you really did earn those  brews
After seeing all this,  I'm feeling  "guilty"  as if I'm shortcutting by only planning to  do  a couple coats of primer  then the TBL.

-jay

I don't think your cheating at all. I like what your using for the finish, and if mine don't come out acceptable, I may follow your lead

L

[lacro]

  Larry,

  I would think that a marine enamel over the epoxy sealer would provide a very hard and durable finish. You are correct that lacquer thinner
wouldn't do well on the epoxy base sealer. Recently read that to use a colored lacquered paint on MDF requires several base coats of clear lacquer sealer first  and lightly sanding between  coats. Then spray on several coats of colored lacquer, also lightly sanding between coats ( 400 grit or finer) and then final finish with a clear lacquer top coat. I built some speakers several years ago that were finished in piano black by a professional automotive paint shop. The paint was a two part urethane based paint made by Dupont. I think Ruben ( outofthewoods) uses a similar type paint on the speakers he builds. The speakers looked really nice, but the paint job was very expensive due to the preparation labor and the high cost of the paint itself. Presently trying to complete a speaker building project myself,and trying to decide method to seal and paint. Presently leaning toward the colored lacquer ( satin black) finish as the best alternative.

Ron

Ron,
 Not sure what method I will use in the end, but let me say, epoxy really soaks into the MDF, especially when thinned 5%. I am about to add another round of epoxy (not thinned) I sanded lightly. All the sanding dust was white, indicating that I am sanding epoxy, and not MDF.
 The epoxy has hardened the MDF something like comparing soft wood to hardwood. It's really hard now. Sanding out all the orange peal effect caused by using a roller/tip method requires more coats of epoxy till I get to the point I can sand just the epoxy and leave no craters, then it's ready for paint.

 The need to seal the MDF whether for paint or Lacquer is accomplished by multiple coats of something. Some use just watered down wood glue. I am not sure what's best, but I am using what I know and what I have available.

 When it comes to final furniture grade color finish, I am in the dark . My experience is on wood finished bright, doing multiple brushed coats of marine varnish, wet sanded between each (6-12 coats)

Larry

[Ron]

Larry,

  Your X-LS Encores painted red would be different. I think they would look really cool, especially for your " man cave". One method I tried several years ago was to paint my bare MDF speaker cabinets with Krylon spray paint. They turned out surprisingly nice. Started out with multiple coats of Krylon dark gray primer, lightly sanding with 400 grit sandpaper between coats. Then I applied multiple coats of Krylon Satin black spray paint also sanding with 400 grit sandpaper between coats. Finished off with Krylon Satin clear coat. Need to use a tack cloth each time you sand. This method works well with bare MDF. May not work well with the Epoxy base coat.

Ron

[lacro]

 Got my first coat of epoxy sanded. The white sanding dust is epoxy, not MDF



 The second coat of epoxy (not thinned) goes on smoothly, and is self leveling. It hides sanding scratches, and brush strokes. Each coat builds like several coats of paint would.





 The boxes are standing off the table on their own 4 feet  I installed nut inserts (with epoxy) into  the bottoms. I want to later attach the speakers to the stands, but for now I am using 1/4-20 elevator bolts for temporary feet so it is possible to epoxy or paint the bottom, insert the bolts, and flip it over onto the feet for doing the other panels.

Larry

[lacro]

I wished I had tried the India ink on the MDF before the epoxy. I bet that would work good.  All I would then need would be some clearcoat over the epoxy.
I am going to try it on my speaker stands...

Larry

[Mr. Oczka]

A big time lurker here..... I am absolutely amazed at  how nice those look.  If you don't mind me asking, what brand of epoxy do you use? 

[lacro]

A big time lurker here..... I am absolutely amazed at  how nice those look.  If you don't mind me asking, what brand of epoxy do you use?

 I have had good luck with Raka. I use the 127 resin with the 350 non blush hardener. It's fairly thin, wets out glass easily, has good pot life, and it doesn't blush. Also, it's fairly inexpensive. I usually buy the 3 gal. kit. Including shipping that equals about $.50 an ounce. I have 7 ounces on these boxes so far.

http://store.raka.com/epoxy.aspx

Larry

[Mr. Oczka]

Thank you for the info.  I might try to use that on my future projects.