[JMW73]

Disclaimer-  I've spoken to both Klaus and Alex on the phone!  I'm just looking for suggestions before I make the next step.  I will likely be in contact with them again.

I have the Candela.  I was noticing that my system sounded imbalanced and swapped cables around until I narrowed it down to the Candela.  So, I emailed Klaus and he asked me to swap the tubes and see if it changed sides.  It did, in fact, change side.  So, I ordered the tubes that Klaus had recommended here (Northern Electric?) and paid extra for the tested/balanced tubes.  Put them in and it sounded unbalanced!!  Swapped them and it swapped sides!!  Out of frustration I left the room and left the Candela on.  When I came back to it the next day, it sounded amazing.  And then over time it became unbalanced again. 

Talked to Alex and he insisted that the tubes either work or don't and I have a contact issue.  He told me to clean all the contacts with a special cleaner, and I did.  He also wanted me to try the original JJ tubes, which I did.  I still have about a 3db (measured) difference that swaps sides if I swap the tubes.  Which points to the tubes but seems impossible based on 2 sets of tubes, one of which is new and supposedly balanced.  And, Alex insists that it is NOT the tubes.  So WTF?

I'm obviously frustrated.  And just want to enjoy my HiFi.  I'm about to the point that I'll get another pre-amp and send this in to Klause and see what is going on.  And then decide what is going to live in my system after that.  I honestly insist that the Candela made one of the biggest differences in my system that helped me enjoy listening to music (and not my equipment).  But, now I'm tired of fooling with it.

So, any suggestions before I do something radical?  I did think about getting yet another set of tubes; there have been some affordable ones suggested here.  But that seems like throwing good money after bad based on what Alex has said.

[brad1138]

That is an odd problem, certainly does point to the tubes, but also not to the tubes....   I am a new Candela owner myself, had mine a few months. I have not noticed a level difference between sides, but I do notice that when I turn the volume down about as low as I can hear it, I hear music from the left speaker over the tube noise, but not from the right speaker.

How did you measure the level? 3 dB may sound like a lot, but really isn't, it shouldn't really do much other than shift the soundstage a bit one way or the other. Which I understand isn't right and would be annoying. 

These are cheap (about $35 shipped) and better than stock, a good base set to have around if/when needed.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum-tube-ecc802-12au7-jj-electronics-long-plate

If you have 3 sets doing the same thing, it is definitely the Candela, and I would ship it back under wtty.

[brad1138]

Does yours have HT passthrough? If so it would be interesting to see if the problem is there also, but of course you need a different preamp plugged into that to test it.

[JMW73]

That is an odd problem, certainly does point to the tubes, but also not to the tubes....   I am a new Candela owner myself, had mine a few months. I have not noticed a level difference between sides, but I do notice that when I turn the volume down about as low as I can hear it, I hear music from the left speaker over the tube noise, but not from the right speaker.

How did you measure the level? 3 dB may sound like a lot, but really isn't, it shouldn't really do much other than shift the soundstage a bit one way or the other. Which I understand isn't right and would be annoying. 

These are cheap (about $35 shipped) and better than stock, a good base set to have around if/when needed.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum-tube-ecc802-12au7-jj-electronics-long-plate

If you have 3 sets doing the same thing, it is definitely the Candela, and I would ship it back under wtty.

I measured by playing a test tone with one amp on.  And then playing the same test tone with the other amp on only.  Microphone at listening position using REW.  I'm not a huge measurer... but when it doesn't sound right it helps to have data.  And 3db is absolutely noticable.

[DannyBadorine]

This is what I would try next:
You have two sets of tubes and it seems that in each set there is one tube that is 3db quieter.  Take the 3db louder (or better) tube out of each set and try them together.  Yes, it's mismatched but see if you still have a problem.  Then try it with the 3db quieter tubes.

Also, are you absolutely positive that the tubes are seated correctly in the sockets?  I'm not sure if it's even possible to put them in wrong but it's worth checking on that.

[klaus@odyssey]

Yup..head scratcher...but when all of the trouble shooting is done,  we'll take care of it...either rectify the problem,  and have the suckers on the bench.......or, if nothing else works,  I'll exchange it for a new unit,  of course.....

Jesse,  one more thing though...when changing the IC outputs left to right etc.  where does the lower output go ???  Just making sure that we shouldn't bias the amps instead..........

[brad1138]

I measured by playing a test tone with one amp on.  And then playing the same test tone with the other amp on only.  Microphone at listening position using REW.  I'm not a huge measurer... but when it doesn't sound right it helps to have data.  And 3db is absolutely noticable.

Nothing wrong with your testing method, and I shouldn't imply it isn't a big deal. The only reason I said that is my left ear is 10 dB less sensitive than my right, but I still get the vocalist at more or less dead center, maybe a few degrees to the right.

But like Klaus said, he'll take care of you.

I would personally try a 3rd set.

This is what I would try next:
You have two sets of tubes and it seems that in each set there is one tube that is 3db quieter.  Take the 3db louder (or better) tube out of each set and try them together.  Yes, it's mismatched but see if you still have a problem.  Then try it with the 3db quieter tubes.

The problem with that, is I think different tubes can have varying levels, might just make it more confusing.

[DannyBadorine]

The problem with that, is I think different tubes can have varying levels, might just make it more confusing.

You make a good point. 

[JMW73]

Yup..head scratcher...but when all of the trouble shooting is done,  we'll take care of it...either rectify the problem,  and have the suckers on the bench.......or, if nothing else works,  I'll exchange it for a new unit,  of course.....

Jesse,  one more thing though...when changing the IC outputs left to right etc.  where does the lower output go ???  Just making sure that we shouldn't bias the amps instead..........

Klaus- I know you'll take care of it.  I'm certainly not here to imply anything else.  Just wanting to brainstorm before I do send it in.

To answer your question, I can get the quiet side to switch sides by simply swapping the tubes.  Nothing else; everything stays the same.  And it does it with both sets of tubes.

I did realize that I can take the Candela out of the chain completely and still have a functional system... I use Roon, so I can change the volume from fixed to variable and connect the DAC directly to the amps and control the volume digitally.  It's not an ideal listening situation, but I can do that and test my volume just to absolutely rule out any amp bias or room effect.  I actually did think about the amps, but the troubleshooting I've done so far points elsewhere.  I will double check though. 

I'll do some of the other troubleshooting too.  Possibly another set of tubes.  As you know, I've been batting this around for awhile and am not trying to act impulsively or dramatically.

Someone asked if the tubes were seated properly.  Every time I've messed with it I've made sure they are pushed into the socket firmly. 

[GeneS]

Does it also exhibit this if you change the inputs or sources? Likely you’ve already checked, but...

[brad1138]

I use Roon, so I can change the volume from fixed to variable

You could use that to test HT passthrough. It could be telling if the results are different.

[JMW73]

This will respond to many of you at once. I had some time to run REW SPL Meter this morning. Laptop running REW usb in to DAC. UMIK-1 microphone at seating position. System as is: Denafrips Pontus II in to Aux 1 in Candela with Northern Electric tubes. Perceived/measured louder tube on right channel. 

Test 1 as is: Right 73, Left 68
Test 2 Aux 2 input: Right 73, Left 68
Test 3 tube swap sides: Aux 1: Right 73, Left 77
Test 4 JJ tubes, random, Aux 1: Right 72.5, Left 69
Test 5 tubes swap sides: Right 68, Left 72.2

Test 3 was an interesting result. Thoughts?  What I know is different inputs doesn’t change, and tubes swapping sides absolutely has a 3.5-5 db difference. So mostly confirmed what I’ve said above.

I ran out of steam for now. To test the HT Bypass and also the Candela out of the chain I’ll need to use different methods so that I can use the volume control within Roon.

[JMW73]

Alex just called me… which is a testament to their commitment to taking care of me.

BUT, he wants me to do my testing differently. So, I’m pressing pause for now because I only have so much time to fiddle.

For now I adjusted the balance via Roon so I can listen.

[brad1138]

This will respond to many of you at once. I had some time to run REW SPL Meter this morning. Laptop running REW usb in to DAC. UMIK-1 microphone at seating position. System as is: Denafrips Pontus II in to Aux 1 in Candela with Northern Electric tubes. Perceived/measured louder tube on right channel. 

Test 1 as is: Right 73, Left 68
Test 2 Aux 2 input: Right 73, Left 68
Test 3 tube swap sides: Aux 1: Right 73, Left 77
Test 4 JJ tubes, random, Aux 1: Right 72.5, Left 69
Test 5 tubes swap sides: Right 68, Left 72.2

Test 3 was an interesting result. Thoughts?  What I know is different inputs doesn’t change, and tubes swapping sides absolutely has a 3.5-5 db difference. So mostly confirmed what I’ve said above.

I ran out of steam for now. To test the HT Bypass and also the Candela out of the chain I’ll need to use different methods so that I can use the volume control within Roon.

My guess in the difference between test 1 and 3, is that the volume control was bumped as you were changing the tubes, it should be a mirror image when swapped, all else being the same. I wouldn't expect different inputs to make a difference (other than HT passthrough).

Those are big differences though.

[JMW73]

Brad1138, I know you’ve been jonesing for me to test the HT pass through!  Ran out of time and energy today.

I tried very hard to not bump the VC, but it’s possible.

Honestly, I’m no closer to figuring this out than I was yesterday. But, I’ll get it at some point.

[brad1138]

Brad1138, I know you’ve been jonesing for me to test the HT pass through!  Ran out of time and energy today.

I tried very hard to not bump the VC, but it’s possible.

Honestly, I’m no closer to figuring this out than I was yesterday. But, I’ll get it at some point.

Don't worry about it , I am just curious. It would mean something if there is no L/R dB difference on that input, but I wouldn't know what. It still has an issue either way.

[JMW73]

I'm waiting to hear back from Klaus before I do anything else...

[Loki57]

Call him in the middle of the night. I've spoken with him at 3am once.

[Ice10]

I'm waiting to hear back from Klaus before I do anything else...

Klaus needs two more arms and at least 10 elves to help keep up with his demand.  He will do his best to call back but best to try to catch him with a call.  I have best had best luck calling from 8-10pm his time.

[Ice10]

Repeat