AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: Shakeydeal on 22 Aug 2019, 10:42 am
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Received the X-3s yesterday. Just as has been mentioned previously, meticulously packaged and traveled without incident.
Out of the box, a little stiff sounding, but that's to be expected. Very good dynamics and transparency. They will need some hours, but impressed so far. I will knock the dust off them this weekend fer sure..........
Shakey
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197810)
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cool!
:green:
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NICE...Enjoy. I am starting to feel like you a week ago.
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So any idea when yours are showing up?
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not yet... But I am ready, new Grado Gold cart./new (nos ) driver tubes for the Manley, new Morrow interconnects/and several War on Drugs albums....
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Shakeydeal, how is it going with the X3s now that you've had them for a few days?
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I have about 25 solid hours on the speakers now. Out of the box, they were a little stiff but sounded pretty good. The potential was obvious.
Now that I have played around with position, further apart and more toe in, and have a few hours on them, I would say they are excellent performers. I am very happy that I took a chance on them. They are very engaging and dynamic, two things that are a must for me. And the bass is very similar to that of Danny's OB servo controlled subs. I know that things will get better with more break in, so I'm definitely looking forward to that.
Someone should start a thread for new X series owners to post their thoughts now that quite a few pair are out in the wild.
Shakey
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If you don't mind my asking, how far apart are they in the picture you posted, how far apart now, and is the measurement inside edge to inside edge, or center to center?
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They were about 9 ft apart, center to center. Now 10 ft. apart, center to center.
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Thanks! My X-3s will be delivered Friday and I'll start with them in the same position as the previous Spatial speakers I had.
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Shakey-
Did you have your Klipschorn speakers in this room or are they in another part of the house?
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They are still in the room behind the listening chair.
They were set up in the corners behind where you see the x-3s now.
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They are still in the room behind the listening chair.
They were set up in the corners behind where you see the x-3s now.
Being completely different speakers are they alike in any way, particularly in regards to soundstage and imaging?
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The x-3s are more holographic, but the khorns have a little wider soundstage. They are very similar when it comes to dynamics, which is high praise for the x-3s since this is where the khorns shine.
Shakey
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Very nice! Thanks for the reply!
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Very good to hear you say they compare favorably with your khorns for dynamics. I've always been fascinated with khorns and wondered what they would be like to live with. Also noticed from your gallery you had GR Super Vs, so I'm glad to read the X3s have bass that's very similar to that of Danny's OB servo controlled subs.
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yeah Shakey you have the experience in the greats of non traditional speakers. Respect.
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Have got about 105 hrs on the X5s and they are really impressive. For those that have asked about bass response, remembering that the subwoofer on the X5s is different than the X3s, it is great! Just finished playing "This ones for Blanton" on vinyl, and I can discern every upright bass note. On a 5 string bass that is only down to 31 or 33 hz. I did play some organ music and had the floor and sofa rumbling hearing low frequencies I have not heard in that room prior. Cannot emphasize how wonderful these speakers sound.
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And of course, if Ray Brown was playing a 4 string bass on that album, then only down to 40hz or so.
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The X3 has the most pitch correct, defined bass I have ever heard in my room. But it has all the other "goodness" too.....
Shakey
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Shakey, I believe you had previously owned several Green Mountain audio speakers and preferred the X3? Can you comment on the differences in sound quality between the two brands? I've owned several Green Mountain audio speakers, currently the EOS HX monitor with two REL subs in stereo and am contemplating the X3. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I've always enjoyed the Green Mountain audio sound for it's purity, vocal reproduction, speed and soundstaging as well as being easy to drive. Most likely due to the first order crossover and stone cabinet.
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For those asking for additional follow up on the X5s here it is. For reference, speakers I have had in my system are B&W, Maggies and Silverline. I have also been listening to my buddies NOLAs (12 inch woofer in box) with OB tweeter and midrange with all tubes driving) excellent and what drove me to look for a new set of speakers. As with Shakey, I have not heard realism and accurate pitch tone like this before. I get a better sense of front to back and side to side placement of musicians, voices as well. Soundstage in my setup does not go very far side to side beyond speakers. I have dialed back the subwoofer a few notches. Bass remains the best I have heard. Dynamics are spectacular. The cannons on Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture are amazing and room shaking if you have the volume turned up. I believe at 160 hrs I can still here improvements, notably in the massive 22 lb subwoofers. I am happy with the X5s in my 22.5 X 15.5 X 9 room as the AMT is closer to ear height, although some have argued that this is not as important with OB speakers. Dynamics are spectacular. The cannons on Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture are amazing and room shaking if you have the volume turned up. Most music I can still listen to at lower volume levels with great enjoyment. However, these speakers are amazing with the volume turned up. If the M3s and M5s are in this same musical ballpark, there are going to be a lot of happy campers out there! Enjoy.
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Sorry about the repeated sentences. Too many things going on!
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Excellent review. Thanks.
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Great X3 review. I agree with the writer that you need to be patient to get speaker placement right, but when you do it is amazing!
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Drools!!
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Got an email with this.
https://tweekgeek.blogspot.com/2019/10/spatial-audio-x3-open-baffle.html?goal=0_be71e688a8-347a083d1b-94729289&mc_cid=347a083d1b&mc_eid=3f1fd96954
If you click on the link at the top of the review blog, you will see that it takes you to https://www.tweekgeek.com/
It appears that the author is an on line dealer for a lot of audio products including Spatial Audio. This is not to say that the review is not valid...just that readers should be aware of the situation. And, to be clear, while I haven't heard the current M and X series, I did hear the M3's two years ago and they were excellent and I'm sure the new offerings are even better.
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Hello , does anyone know what the minimum amount of watts needed to operate the X3 speakers? I have 2 watt and 4 watt amplifier tube amplifiers - :D Thank you!
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Hello , does anyone know what the minimum amount of watts needed to operate the X3 speakers? I have 2 watt and 4 watt amplifier tube amplifiers - :D Thank you!
It’s my opinion that you don’t have enough power.
Shakey
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Actually the load for a low power tube amp should be a lot more friendly because all of the bass is self powered, leaving the tube amp to drive only the mid/tweeter section.
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If you click on the link at the top of the review blog, you will see that it takes you to https://www.tweekgeek.com/
It appears that the author is an on line dealer for a lot of audio products including Spatial Audio. This is not to say that the review is not valid...just that readers should be aware of the situation. And, to be clear, while I haven't heard the current M and X series, I did hear the M3's two years ago and they were excellent and I'm sure the new offerings are even better.
My apologies. I probably wouldn’t have posted this review if I knew Mike at Tweek Geek was a dealer for Spatial. I was always under the impression Clayton sold his speakers direct.
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Looks like Mike is just another order taker and not an actual stocking dealer other than his own personal pair. Fritz has several dealers around the country doing the same thing.
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Shakey, I believe you had previously owned several Green Mountain audio speakers and preferred the X3? Can you comment on the differences in sound quality between the two brands? I've owned several Green Mountain audio speakers, currently the EOS HX monitor with two REL subs in stereo and am contemplating the X3. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I've always enjoyed the Green Mountain audio sound for it's purity, vocal reproduction, speed and soundstaging as well as being easy to drive. Most likely due to the first order crossover and stone cabinet.
I apologize, but I just saw this post today.
It has been many years since I owned GMA speakers. I first had the Imago II, then the Callisto + sub, and lastly the Continuum 3 HR. I enjoyed all of them very much and had sellers remorse for a while when the C3s were gone.
Since there have been many (MANY!) speakers through my room since then, it's impossible to do a direct comparison. I would say the C3 and the X3 have a similar huge presentation and just plain ole BIG sound. I think the midrange performance of the X3 is better from what I recall. And I can certainly say that although the C3 could dig deep, it (nor any speaker since) did not have the accurate bass performance of the X3. Nor did it have the excellent midbass to bass transition of the X3.
That said, if you like time coherent speakers like the GMA line, you will certainly like the X3. I can't speak for any of Clayton's other offerings since this is my first pair
Shakey
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Actually the load for a low power tube amp should be a lot more friendly because all of the bass is self powered, leaving the tube amp to drive only the mid/tweeter section.
As you well know already, a lot depends on the size of the room you have to fill and your listening habits. A 25 watt Decware amp should have been plenty to power the mid/tweets, but I found that it was not. I have a large dedicated room and tend to listen pretty loud. The guy I sold the amp too was very happy with it, as was I when it was driving horns. It didn't have the juice to drive the X3s.
Of course not all amps are created equal and it could have been that the decware PS and transformers are lacking. I don't know.
Shakey
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Has anyone tried spikes on the X3s or X5s? My X5s are on carpet so guessing that something like the Trackaudio spikes might improve sound. I note that for the M3s at CAF Clayton had them up on Stillpoints.
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By floor spikes, I mean substantially larger than the ones that come with the speakers. Dialed in further to where wife and I were amazed listening to music through the X5s last night!
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Has anyone tried spikes on the X3s or X5s? My X5s are on carpet so guessing that something like the Trackaudio spikes might improve sound. I note that for the M3s at CAF Clayton had them up on Stillpoints.
The Track Audio Spikes worked very well for me. Previously decoupling speaker from floor. Not any more. :thumb:
charles
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Those spikes certainly look nice. What improvements did you hear over the stock ones?
Shakey
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Tighter and more focused sound overall. Bass clarity and imaging improved as well. I found the decoupling brighter and hard.
charles
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The Track Audio Spikes worked very well for me. Previously decoupling speaker from floor. Not any more. :thumb:
charles
How long is the actual spike part? I mean the portion below the "Track" embossing. I have had speakers that came with spikes too short to penetrate carpet and padding. Even the cheapest replacement spikes made a big improvement when they penetrated to concrete. Four different thread sizes for the Track spikes makes them worth bookmarking for possible future needs.
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I guess I'm a little confused. I thought all spikes coupled the speaker to the floor.
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I guess I'm a little confused. I thought all spikes coupled the speaker to the floor.
Spikes have to contact a solid floor. If they do not penetrate carpet then they are not very effective. My opinion is they are useless in that situation. I know because I have experienced that with several speakers.
I do not know about spikes on cups on hard floors. I would think their effectiveness would be diminished. I have no experience there.
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I might have to try a set of those. They certainly are cheap enough.......
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Shakey, if you don't mind my asking, what amp are you now using with your X-3's? I think you had a Decware Torii originally (I had the same once) then a Carver Crimson 275. I noticed the Carver is for sale, so I'm curious if you found that was more power than necessary. I'm using an Icepower 1200AS amp which is way more power than necessary, although it sounds very good, but I'm itching to go back to tubes.
Thanks,
Jeff
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How long is the actual spike part? I mean the portion below the "Track" embossing. I have had speakers that came with spikes too short to penetrate carpet and padding. Even the cheapest replacement spikes made a big improvement when they penetrated to concrete. Four different thread sizes for the Track spikes makes them worth bookmarking for possible future needs.
They are 1.65" long.
charles
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Does anyone know the thread size for the X-3 spikes? I think I'll try the Track Audio Spikes. Music Direct has them, with their usual 60 day satisfaction guarantee.
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I think they are 1/4 20
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I just wanted to make a post about the X3s after having lived with them a while.
I would guess that I have ~300 hours on the speakers presently. Although there were some changes early on, I think the improvements in the past 20 or so hours have been pretty dramatic.
I mentioned a in the beginning about the speakers being a little stiff, not wanting to boogie. Well that trait has completely disappeared and now the X3 is very lively and engaging. Dynamics have improved and the speakers can play at VERY loud levels without sounding strained. They sound more natural at higher SPLs now. This was one reservation I had coming from klipschorns. I still think the big corner horns are more effortless, but the gap has narrowed considerably. The X3 has nothing to be ashamed of when belting out hard rock.
Two other areas of improvement are inner detail and midrange purity. I can see further into the soundstage and instruments and voices have more texture and a "realness" to them.
In the beginning I liked the speakers very much. Then it was respect and admiration for what they were capable of. Now it is flat out over the top love. And most of this newfound goodness came around in the last 20-30 hours of listening. It was almost as if a switch was thrown, that's how quick the change came about.
So hopefully new X3 owners can take something from this. I never would have guessed it would take 3+ months to get there, but I think I'm there. If they get better than this, well that would be the icing..........
Shakey
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Wow, good stuff. Still waiting on the M5's. I would guess full break in on the 5"s will be similar, same drivers.
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I have the M3's on order in Sepele and went back and forth probably driving Clayton crazy. :duh: He is a pleasure to work with!
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Well you guys have a lot to look forward to.
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I just wanted to make a post about the X3s after having lived with them a while.
I would guess that I have ~300 hours on the speakers presently. Although there were some changes early on, I think the improvements in the past 20 or so hours have been pretty dramatic.
I mentioned a in the beginning about the speakers being a little stiff, not wanting to boogie. Well that trait has completely disappeared and now the X3 is very lively and engaging. Dynamics have improved and the speakers can play at VERY loud levels without sounding strained. They sound more natural at higher SPLs now. This was one reservation I had coming from klipschorns. I still think the big corner horns are more effortless, but the gap has narrowed considerably. The X3 has nothing to be ashamed of when belting out hard rock.
Two other areas of improvement are inner detail and midrange purity. I can see further into the soundstage and instruments and voices have more texture and a "realness" to them.
In the beginning I liked the speakers very much. Then it was respect and admiration for what they were capable of. Now it is flat out over the top love. And most of this newfound goodness came around in the last 20-30 hours of listening. It was almost as if a switch was thrown, that's how quick the change came about.
So hopefully new X3 owners can take something from this. I never would have guessed it would take 3+ months to get there, but I think I'm there. If they get better than this, well that would be the icing..........
Shakey
Hey Shakey,
Thanks for the X3 write up. I have been contemplating Klipschorns and then after surfing the Klipsch forums, been directed to look at the Klipsch Jubilee horn speakers. But, having read about Spatial audio, and now your review, I am leaning towards the X3s. How would you say the X3 compared to the Klipschorns in terms of dynamics? How big is your room? I have a 33 x 19 dedicated listening room with spray foamed joists, Roxul safe and sound, resilient channel, and Quiet rock 540 sheet rock on all walls and ceiling. Three walls are concrete and room is basement slab. I currently have B&W Nautilus 800s and am willing to try a more dynamic type of speaker...I think I have grown up from regular cone driven speaker and wish for more efficient designs. I have McIntosh MC2301 300 watt tube amps. How does the powered sub compare to the M3 in terms of subterranean bass notes?
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Well when I placed my X3 order, I was looking at Jubilees too and almost bought them. It came down to me not wanting to deal with an electronic xover and two amps. But you can get into a pair of them for about the same money as the Spatials. That was a tough call for me, but I'm happy I went this way. You have a perfect room for the Jubes so that's a tough decision for you too.
My klipschorns had the A55-G midrange driver and Volti Audio xovers. I also had dampened the mid horn with modeling clay. They sounded very good and I was pretty happy with them in my 15.5 x 26 ft. room. I had them on the short wall. I would give the edge to the khorns for dynamics, but only slightly. The X3 comes very close. The khorn also has a little better bass impact because of the true horn loaded bass and corner loading of the design. Where the X3 pulls ahead is in bass pitch and accuracy. Every note is defined and easy to follow. I like this. The X3 also is more holographic and refined, as you would probably expect compared to older khorns. The thing I really like about the Spatial X3s is that they are very engaging and pull you into the music. That's about the highest praise I can give them.
As for your question about the M3, I have never heard them, so no comment there. This is the first Spatial speaker I have experienced. You can hardly go wrong either way, Jubes or X3. I would ask Clayton what he thinks about your room size. The X3s have no problem filling my space with ease.
Shakey
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Hey Shakey,
Follow-up on how your X3s are still improving at 300+ hrs on them. I am experiencing the same with the X5s. I have around 230 hrs on them and the sound is improving in seemingly all aspects. In particular, the subwoofer and bass from the mid much better. For live performances it is close to being at the venue. Piano is startling in it's realism on these speakers using the Primaluma. Vocals are amazing. At this point, I am listening only in triode mode with the KT150s. Popped in EL34s, lost a little low and high end punch, but midrange fantastic.
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Yeah I reached a point a few weeks ago when I thought the speakers were fully broken in.
I was wrong........
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Well when I placed my X3 order, I was looking at Jubilees too and almost bought them. It came down to me not wanting to deal with an electronic xover and two amps. But you can get into a pair of them for about the same money as the Spatials. That was a tough call for me, but I'm happy I went this way. You have a perfect room for the Jubes so that's a tough decision for you too.
My klipschorns had the A55-G midrange driver and Volti Audio xovers. I also had dampened the mid horn with modeling clay. They sounded very good and I was pretty happy with them in my 15.5 x 26 ft. room. I had them on the short wall. I would give the edge to the khorns for dynamics, but only slightly. The X3 comes very close. The khorn also has a little better bass impact because of the true horn loaded bass and corner loading of the design. Where the X3 pulls ahead is in bass pitch and accuracy. Every note is defined and easy to follow. I like this. The X3 also is more holographic and refined, as you would probably expect compared to older khorns. The thing I really like about the Spatial X3s is that they are very engaging and pull you into the music. That's about the highest praise I can give them.
As for your question about the M3, I have never heard them, so no comment there. This is the first Spatial speaker I have experienced. You can hardly go wrong either way, Jubes or X3. I would ask Clayton what he thinks about your room size. The X3s have no problem filling my space with ease.
Shakey
Thank you. It appears that you and I have similar tastes in what we enjoy about speaker ownership. Yes, the Jubilee is very tempting, but after having spoken with Clayton last week for a good while, and gaining insight on how and why the X3 came to be, I think the X3 is on par musically speaking with the Jubilees but in a different way. Where you mention that every note is defined and easy to follow in the X3, I don’t think the Jubilee would be equal in that quality, but the Jubilee may be more dynamic giving the illusion of a robust bass section, not necessarily the pitch and definition of the X3. The Jubilee will probably play louder as it’s all horn driven, but due to the high efficiency of the X3 and M3, it should be more than loud enough, but I have artillery ears, so loud is a pretty relative term for me.
I was also ascertaining and conducting my own mission analysis of the complexity of the Jubilee with the requirements to add an active crossover and additional amps. For some, that’s not an issue, and really for me not so either, but if I jump into this new speaker paradigm, at least I want to take an easy step and not one gigantic one, if you know what I mean. The Spatial X3 exudes the KISS philosophy, while Jubilee is for the tinkerer. Based on what I heard listening to the M3 with 10 watts ultra liner and 40 watts EL34s, the conversation with Clayton, and your listening impressions, the X3 probably throws many listening paradigms of so called high end speakers for a spin.
How do you feel about how the X3s wide band AMT tweeter handles high frequencies compared to a normal tweeter? I noticed that the M3 tweeter is rated to 40khz but the X3 is rated to 20khz as listed on the Spatial Audio page. I was under the impression that AMTs go much higher than 20khz in upper frequency response. I will probably sit about 8-10 feet from speakers depending on how far from back wall I place them. Does the sound of brass and cymbals seem natural sounding to you. I spin mostly vinyl and limit streaming so my benchmark sound tastes are from records.
Noticed your vette in the signature. Is that a C5Z06? I had one when I was in Germany, and raced at Hockenheim. Also the same millennium yellow. The titanium exhaust was awesome.
Audioquest4life
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As far as the AMT driver goes, it is certainly more extended and refined than the K77s in the khorns. But for me, the important thing about tweeters is that they don't call attention to themselves. The AMT just goes about it's business and I don't even think about it. If I listen to a speaker and say "hey, how about that tweeter", then I think it's a design failure or poor choice of driver.
The sound of brass has the right amount of energy and "bite". It just sounds right to me. But the klipschorns on most of my music never sounded bright or edgy with brass either, when some folks say they do. Both speakers do a very good job in this respect. The X3 does a better job of floating the image (of a trumpet for example) in the room.
The car in the pic was mine and it is a 2004 Z06. I sold it about a year and a half ago. I took off the titanium exhaust and replaced it with Kooks long tube headers and Corsa Extreme mufflers. It sounded great. It was a fun car and I had it for about three years but it was time to move on.
Shakey
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The AMT on the X3s and X5s is stated to go to 22 kHz on the Spatial site. Like Shakey, I find that the X5s convey the best sense of live venue/in the room that I have heard. These effects are generally where the >20 kHz frequencies help out.
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You guys have to stop with all of this love for Clayton's products. You just cost me $7500 :D
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Congrats...I am going to list my B&W 800s for sale and probably order sometime 1st quarter new year too :D :D
I am shaking my head at the price to performance of these speakers. I spent almost three times the amount years ago for the 800s, and these X3s tick all of the boxes I wanted or wish to have; powerful, musical, and dynamic. My 800s are musical but in a different way, but no heft or speed. I can’t wait to hear what 300 tube watts driven from my McIntosh MC2301 will do. Meanwhile, I will live vicariously through you all who are getting the X3s. So far, it’s been a great read and story.
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Beats hookers and blow......... :icon_lol:
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LOL
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Beats hookers and blow......... :icon_lol:
Hopefully they'll last longer.......
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I used to have some Tri y headers, forgot who, but they always leaked at the down pipe connection....ended up welding them closed, defeats the purpose of easy removal, haha.
How long did it take from order to delivery to get your X3s? Are you on the east coast? I would love to hear your setup. For that matter, anyone on east coast have X3s yet? I might be willing to travel to hear these up close. Thanks.
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@shakey,
What amps and how much power are you using for the X3s? I assume not really a big powerful amp because of the efficiency of the X3. Thanks
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I am on the east coast, in Virginia. I am using a carver Crimson 275. You are most welcome to an audition.
Shakey
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Hi Shakey,
Same here and also in Virginia, Manassas area. Thank you for the invite. I sent you a PM.
Audioquest4life
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Does anyone know the thread size for the X-3 spikes? I think I'll try the Track Audio Spikes. Music Direct has them, with their usual 60 day satisfaction guarantee.
Have any of you found better footers for the X-3 or X-5's? These little spikes are too small and I have hardwood floor.
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Have any of you found better footers for the X-3 or X-5's? These little spikes are too small and I have hardwood floor.
https://www.tektondesign.com/footers.html
Check hardwood version...great price!
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This is the set I was going to get, but looks like I waited too long. And MD says they don't think they'll be getting the 1/4 20 sets in again. So the search continues.
https://www.musicdirect.com/vibration-control/track-audio-14-20-spikes-set-of-8-demo (https://www.musicdirect.com/vibration-control/track-audio-14-20-spikes-set-of-8-demo)
On 2nd thought, isn't M6 the same as 1/4 20? Are they interchangeable?
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Found these
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/tiptoes/feet/feet-yung-yblc-black-chrome-tiptoe-2.15/
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/tiptoes/feet/feet-yung-ylc-black-chrome-1-3/8-tall-1/4-20-insert/
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What's the difference between spikes on hardwood floor vs something like the Isoacoustics Footers (besides the price) here:
https://isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/gaia-iii/
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Got the word from Clayton that the M6 version of the Track Audio spikes will work with the X3.
Shakey
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I have used spikes, Herbie's products, DIY, until finally biting the bullet and using IsoAcoustics products. The Gaia's blew me away in terms of sound improvement, which goes something like, cleaner bass, cleaner individual notes, smoother more dynamic, more natural, etc. I now have the orea's under my turntable, amp, dac, so, my recommendation is since you've already sunk a certain amount of money into the speakers, for a relatively small amount (comparatively) try their products (I think they offer 30 day trial). I would be very surprised if you'd send them back. I have found no negatives from their products.
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Thanks Ric. I'll see if I can find a pair of the IsoAcoustic Gaias.
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I just ordered a set of these to replace the short tips that the X3 comes with. I put in new carpet and padding recently and the stock tips don't go nearly through all of it.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/tiptoes/feet/feet-yung-ylc-black-chrome-tiptoe-1-3/8-m6-t-nut/ (https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/tiptoes/feet/feet-yung-ylc-black-chrome-tiptoe-1-3/8-m6-t-nut/)
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Curious as to why you are selling the X3's Shakey?
What are you moving on to.
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Curious as to why you are selling the X3's Shakey?
What are you moving on to.
Where did he mention he was selling them? I don't see anything listed on the for sale boards.
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Curious as to why you are selling the X3's Shakey?
What are you moving on to.
I saw them for sale on audiomart yesterday.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649637099-spatial-audio-x3/
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I saw them for sale on audiomart yesterday.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649637099-spatial-audio-x3/
Wow. Surprised. Shakey has always spoken so highly of them, curious that he is selling. :dunno:
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It's just normal part of audiophile life