[Daverz]

I spent some time recently playing with the tilt of my Quatros, and was reminded yet again of how essential it is to get this right with these speakers.  Without the right tilt -- and I mean off by only one spacer -- they sound only as good as, well, other speakers.

My thick carpet makes getting this right somewhat difficult.  Following the procedure in the manual of inserting so many spacers won't work; not only is the tilt off for any given number of spacers, it differs greatly between the speakers.   

Instead, I've been using a Craftsman laser level to do this (not ideal because it has a magnet in the base).  I use a steel tape measure to measure the laser height right in front of the speakers, and then measure the drop from that level just behind the listening chair.  I then prop the tape up behind the chair and adjust the tilt of each speaker until they agree.

How do you figure out how much the laser level should drop (or rise) in height?  First, how much does a single spacer tilt the speaker?  The back spike is 18 inches or 1.5 feet from the front cones.  Each spacer is 1/16 inch thick.  So each spacer increases the tilt by

1/16 inches / 1.5 feet = 1/24 inches/foot. 

Now look at the tilt chart to see how many spacers are needed for your height and distance:



For me, with my ears at 34 inches and sitting 8 feet from the plane of the speakers, it's 2 spacers, so based on this the drop would be

2 * 1/24 inches/foot * 8 feet = 2/3 inches

Now notice that the intersection of the line on the chart is more exact for a 9 foot distance and a 34 inch height where the drop would be 3/4 inches.  Also, for a 6 foot distance and 34 inch height I'd need 3 spacers for a drop of 3/4 inches...  So a 3/4 inch drop should give the most accurate focus for an ear height of 34 inches.  Similarly, an ear height of 33.5 inches would need a drop in level of 1 inch.  And it's not too hard to generalize: if your ear is x inches below (or above) the 35.5 inch acoustic center of the speakers, then the laser level should drop (or rise) half that height at the listening distance.

Why half?  I don't know.  Naively, I would have thought that the tilt would be twice that, 1.5 inches for my setup.  But there's not even enough thread on the back spike for that many spacers.

I tried dropping the laser level as close to 1.5 inches as I could get, which leaves almost no thread left on one of the back spikes.  I listened carefully to that, and then again as I removed a spacer at a time from the back spike.  The sound at the maximum tilt was flat and dull, but improved as each spacer was removed.  As the recommended tilt was approached the frequency balance improved and the soundstage popped into focus (in particular, listen for where the center image has the greatest focus and depth).  With one less spacer than that, the soundstage again started to lose depth and focus.

UPDATE: One important thing I forgot is that for that laser level to work, you need to get the speakers leveled left-to-right.  I use some washers on the cones (the threads cannot take weight) to do this.  Look for "fender" washers (the wide ones) with a 1/4" hole.

[zybar]

Great post!

I am going to recheck things with my 5A's to make sure all is still good.  This kids may have moved my listening chair and I didn't have it marked.

George

[C17FXR]

What I've done with my 3A Sig's was to measure up from the bottom front of the speaker (if I'm not mistaken it's 38").

Built a square that would hold a laser level at that position and placed it on top of the 3A Sig's.

Got a large piece of cardboard from a local furniture store. Placed it behind my couch, had my wife mark my ear height on the card board.

Then lined the laser up to the mark on the card board.

My alignment was off using the instructions in the book, plus this allows you to view weather your speaker are firing on the same plane. Even with the same number of spacers on both speakers the two were firing at a different height.

P.S. Don't forget to ensure your speakers are level horizontally also.

[timind]

Although my experience only relates to the 1C and the 2CEsigs, i found that without proper tilt angle they could not reach their full potential. With the proper angle they were at the top in their price category.

[SlushPuppy]

Although my experience only relates to the 1C and the 2CEsigs, i found that without proper tilt angle they could not reach their full potential. With the proper angle they were at the top in their price category.

I had 2CE Sigs for many years and agree 100%. They sounded lifeless until you got the tilt angle dialed-in.

[Wig]

Guys,

Just curious if your the distance between your speakers are the same as your listening distance?

Thanks,
Wig 

[zybar]

Nope.

I sit further from the speakers than they are apart.

George

[C17FXR]

I sit a little further back from the speakers.

3A Sig's are 8'6" apart and I sit 9'5" back.

[jeffreybehr]

My ears are about 11-1/2' from the upperbass driver's dustcap, while the speakers are 9'10" apart (c-to-c).

My 5As are level, F-to-B and L-to-R; maybe I ought to pay more attention to tilt, altho I can't imagine the center focus getting any better.   

Daverz, thx for alerting us to this.

------------------------------------------

About the best thing I ever bought to help in speaker setup was a Bosch measuring laser, model DLR-130.
http://www.aikencolon.com/bosch-dlr130k-laser-distance-rangefinder.html
(Posting this link is NOT a recommendation for this site; it was merely the 1st one listed in search results.)

It's accurate to 1/16" and is easy to use.  Seems to me I paid about $100 at Home Depot. 

[Daverz]

Just curious if your the distance between your speakers are the same as your listening distance?

I find that I like sitting about a foot further away.  My speakers are slightly less than 8 feet apart, and I sit a little less than 9 feet from each speaker.  I bought a Stabila laser ranger to do all these measurements.

[Wig]

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback, when I had my 2 Ce Sig II, they sounded best at 7' apart with a listening distance of 9'. My room was 15' wide and 35' long. I currently have Avalon Ascendants and considering the Quatro wood or may augment my low end response with a JL112 sub. Will look into that laser meter. How are you determining that both speakers are on the same axis because I don't think my room is perfectly square?

Wig

[Daverz]

How are you determining that both speakers are on the same axis because I don't think my room is perfectly square?

You could use a steel tape measure on the floor to line up against the front cones, or for a more precise line use a laser level to shine a line on the floor.

There's a partial wall behind my speakers:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1249597860

I use the Stabila to measure to the wall, measuring from just above the cooling fins on the back of the speaker.

For toe in, you could use two tape measures, or the laser level again and a tape measure.  But the method I use is to put an architect's scale (the three sided type ruler) along the top plate of the opposite speaker, then use the laser level lined up against the front of the top plate of the other speaker to sight how far back the laser line is from the front of the opposite speaker.  This gives a fairly precise toe-in of the speakers relative to each other.

[Wig]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!

Wig

[pulsetsar]

Wow - I did pretty much the EXACT same thing with my Treos this past week after getting them, Craftsman laser level and all (great product, BTW). However, I will draw your attention to the following:

For me, with my ears at 34 inches and sitting 8 feet from the plane of the speakers, it's 2 spacers, so based on this the drop would be

Unless there is a typo, doesn't that mean you need between 11 and 12 spacers, based on the chart? Does that throw off your calculus, or did I misinterpret your analysis?

Anyway, I too found that getting the tilt exactly right is critical, or the speakers just sound ordinary. In my case, I'm 9 feet away and listening at about 40 inches height. I tried a few variations around it but only found 4 spacers to sound right...and boy was it obvious once I hit that sweet spot. These speakers are amazing and easily trump anything I've heard under 10K (and even a few above that mark).

The other thing I wanted to mention, though, was that in addition to proper tilt, I've found that biwiring is critical. I had a set of monowire cables with "biwire" speaker terminations (sometimes called internal biwire cables) and a set of true biwire cables (2 runs). Both are Kimber 8TC, 9 feet long, and have the same terminations on both ends. Switching out the monowire set for a biwire set made a ridiculous impovement in clarity and low level detail that just made me laugh. I guess Richard is right about the importance of biwiring, as he emphatically states in the manual in multiple places. Why this works, I have no idea. I was pretty annoyed at having to run 2 sets of cable but I'm over it now - the difference in sound quality is more than worth the additional cost.

[Daverz]

Wow - I did pretty much the EXACT same thing with my Treos this past week after getting them, Craftsman laser level and all (great product, BTW). However, I will draw your attention to the following:

Unless there is a typo, doesn't that mean you need between 11 and 12 spacers, based on the chart? Does that throw off your calculus, or did I misinterpret your analysis?

Sorry for the tardy replay; I don't check this forum very often.

I meant 2 spacers in addition to the whatever is needed to level the top-plate.

I guess Richard is right about the importance of biwiring

Yeah, I got some Anti-cables in a shot-gunned bi-wire configuration that were a huge improvement over the Audioquest cables I had.  Anti-cable will make the cables and terminate them to your configuration.