AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Virtue Audio Owners => Topic started by: tabrink on 28 Aug 2010, 03:27 am
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The Piano M1 is a freakin' ridiculously good CD-player which rivals players 10 times its fighting weight. Spent some time with my Piano this week. And this puppy is a winner.
The sound is sooo robust! Pumped up and bouncing off your chest!
I spent a fortune trying to get my Imac to equal the Piano and it ain't happening..
I was this close to being a hard drive guy but the Piano has made me bring the cds back to my listening room.
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X2 - great CD player :thumb:
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34718)
Mine is coming early next week and is the same color scheme as this Sensation.(I am so pumped!!)..
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The Piano M1 is a freakin' ridiculously good CD-player which rivals players 10 times its fighting weight. Spent some time with my Piano this week. And this puppy is a winner.
The sound is sooo robust! Pumped up and bouncing off your chest!
I spent a fortune trying to get my Imac to equal the Piano and it ain't happening..
I was this close to being a hard drive guy but the Piano has made me bring the cds back to my listening room.
One more fan of the Piano here :thumb:. My downstairs M901/Piano rig has replaced my Virtue One/PC rig as the main go-to. It's fun spinning the CDs again, I forgot how great they could sound.
Cornelis
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Hey whoa! You can spend a fortune on USB cables, modded squeezeboxes, 5 figure DACs, $449 power supplies or just buy one of Seth's Pianos and revive those redbooks!
Makes him look really smart doesn't it, Next thing you know he will get this ego thing going on!.
Melissa reel him in!
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I fell in love with it first! :lol:
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The Piano M1 is a freakin' ridiculously good CD-player...
Aren't you using an EE DAC with it? If so, how does it sound in comparison without the DAC? I nearly bought a Piano but the long delay between loading a disc and it being ready to play was a deal breaker for me, so I bought a Cambridge Sonata with a Beresford 7520 instead. Now contemplating the EE but the Beresford needs at least another 75 hours or so to break in.
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wind chaser, what was the long delay in reading the disc? the only long delay is when you first turn the unit on with the power button as the circuits warm. after it's on, mine is ready to play when you insert new discs in no more than 3 seconds and it's allways ready to play by the time i get back to my seat which is only 9ft. away.
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wind chaser, what was the long delay in reading the disc? the only long delay is when you first turn the unit on with the power button as the circuits warm. after it's on, mine is ready to play when you insert new discs in no more than 3 seconds and it's allways ready to play by the time i get back to my seat which is only 9ft. away.
Yep, I will vouch for what marvda1 says about that wind chaser, only about 3 seconds.
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Mine came in yesterday so I will reserve judgement until it has burned it for a few days. Right out of the box, it is clean with good bass, but there are some things that my old Cambridge 640c w/ Monica dac do better. It will interesting to see where the Piano is after burn in. I have high hopes for increased detail and imaging. Oh yeah, it is definitely faster loading than the Cambridge.
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I got tired of trying to maintain a huge CD collection. I now rip everything to lossless (flac) files, and stream through Squeezebox.
I wonder how this compares to just plopping a CD into the Piano?
Scott
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I got tired of trying to maintain a huge CD collection. I now rip everything to lossless (flac) files, and stream through Squeezebox.
I wonder how this compares to just plopping a CD into the Piano?
Scott
I'll let you know when I get mine, right now I play wav files via SB Duet and use a PS3 as transport via toslink to my DAC for CD's. I wanted to hear a great quality CD player with its own DAC instead of wearing out my PS3. I'm stoked to receive mine.... :thumb:
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I got tired of trying to maintain a huge CD collection. I now rip everything to lossless (flac) files, and stream through Squeezebox.
I wonder how this compares to just plopping a CD into the Piano?
Scott
I also have all my CDs (700+) ripped uncompressed (AIFF) which I play through a Valab NOS DAC -> Virtue One in my office system. The sound is very similar to what I get with the Piano, which uses the same DAC chip as the Valab. I use the same speakers (PSB Image B5) and a similar amp (Sensation M901) in my living room system. Even with the differences between the two systems, mainly room size, speaker placement and subwoofer, they have much the same sonic signature.
Cornelis
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I have a stack of CD's all ready..... :rock: :eyebrows: :dance: :bounce: :hyper:
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wind chaser, what was the long delay in reading the disc? the only long delay is when you first turn the unit on with the power button as the circuits warm. after it's on, mine is ready to play when you insert new discs in no more than 3 seconds and it's allways ready to play by the time i get back to my seat which is only 9ft. away.
I read about it in a couple of places... the following quote is from TNT...
I gave the M1 a few days to burn in, leaving it running on repeat to clock up around 80 hours before I actually listened to it seriously. The M1 does take a while between closing the CD drawer and being ready to play. At first I thought that there may be something wrong with the CD that I put in but it was the same with all of them. It took in the region of 5-15 seconds (depending on the CD) before the display came up and the music could be started. Given that you don't put CD's in for every track, this wasn't too much of a problem, although it did remind me why I love my Logitech Squeezebox so much!
Here's a link to the full review... (http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/va_piano_m1_e.html)
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So is this a transport, do you still need a dac?. I also read a review about a 5 to 15 second delay from closing door to music playing.
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I wanted something with a small footprint so the Piano would have been perfect, but...
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I have a stack of CD's all ready..... :rock: :eyebrows: :dance: :bounce: :hyper:
Are you really ready? Have you .....
1. Trued the edges and cut a 38° bevel with an audiophile CD trimmer?
2. Coated the edges with an audiophile CD edge marker?
3. Applied audiophile CD cleaner-protectant to the discs surface?
4. Treated the discs with an audiophile electromagnetic clarifier (preferably quad-beam)?
Steve
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Steve-I only got the triple beam...damn!!! I knew I shoulda got the quad... :thumb:
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don't know where he got 5 to 15 seconds to play a disc. as i said only on the initial startup does it take a while before the info is displayed, after that about 3 seconds. ask any m1 owner or get in on the tour and time it yourself. i don't count the time while the tray is closing unless it just sits there and looks at me before it starts to move. i haven't read anywhere that a piano m1 owner was complaining about the time it takes to read a disc. read my review athttp://www.stereomojo.com/Virtue%20Audio%20PianoM1%20Cd%20Player/VirtueAudioPianoCDPlayer.htm
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Steve-I only got the triple beam...damn!!! I knew I shoulda got the quad... :thumb:
That's okay, 75% reduction (of a possible 100%) in noise floor and high frequency glare is better than none!
It will be interesting to hear more comparisons of this CD player with it's unassuming internal NOS DAC to computer playback + external DAC, especially with direct A/B switching between the two sources on the same songs.
Steve
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That's okay, 75% reduction (of a possible 100%) in noise floor and high frequency glare is better than none!
It will be interesting to hear more comparisons of this CD player with it's unassuming internal NOS DAC to computer playback + external DAC, especially with direct A/B switching between the two sources on the same songs.
Steve
You got it, I'll make a point of it.
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With the cd tray open, it took only 8 seconds to close and begin play. That is way ahead of my Cambridge 640. At least for me, slowness is not only a non issue, the speed is a plus.
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I read about it in a couple of places... the following quote is from TNT...
I gave the M1 a few days to burn in, leaving it running on repeat to clock up around 80 hours before I actually listened to it seriously. The M1 does take a while between closing the CD drawer and being ready to play. At first I thought that there may be something wrong with the CD that I put in but it was the same with all of them. It took in the region of 5-15 seconds (depending on the CD) before the display came up and the music could be started. Given that you don't put CD's in for every track, this wasn't too much of a problem, although it did remind me why I love my Logitech Squeezebox so much!
My M1 never takes that long to play. My previous CD player did though.
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OK.. My observations only so only take them with a grain of salt!
I am back to listening to my music via the Piano. 8) 8) It is the best sound I have in this house.
I really wanted to Squeezebox Touch, Imac, etc. to work as a main. And I have some pretty serious players to push theses files through.
The Maverick Tube Magic is as good of a buy as the Piano if the truth were known. But I listen to my FLAC through a Eastern Electric DAC or Tube Magic or through the Piano straight to my pre.
My preference is the Piano direct with no external DAC to my pre..
One quick note is that if you are looking at an office or secondary system the Maverick Tube DAC is almost without compare.
BTW the Sensation really sounds sweet with the Omega SuperHemps!
I was tempted to go Maggie 1.7 but he Virtue stuff really works with Louis's Omega stuff!
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Yupp, Maverick is great and awesome value considering all the features build into the unit.
But it is only a DAC and you'll still need some sort of transport. I would not recommend its USB feature. It might be OK for desktop system but that is probably as far as I would go with its usefulness.
Coax and optical should be adequate for budget minded audiophiles and smaller or 2nd rig systems.
Piano M1 as a digital player might be a better solution and prove to be a better performer in symple & complete package.
I often forget about its asking price.
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The Maverick Tube Magic is as good of a buy as the Piano if the truth were known. But I listen to my FLAC through a Eastern Electric DAC or Tube Magic or through the Piano straight to my pre.
My preference is the Piano direct with no external DAC to my pre..
One quick note is that if you are looking at an office or secondary system the Maverick Tube DAC is almost without compare.
Interesting, so if I am reading this right, you prefer the Maverick to the EE. Guess the next question is are they both fully broken in?
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don't know where he got 5 to 15 seconds to play a disc. as i said only on the initial startup does it take a while before the info is displayed, after that about 3 seconds. ask any m1 owner or get in on the tour and time it yourself. i don't count the time while the tray is closing unless it just sits there and looks at me before it starts to move. i haven't read anywhere that a piano m1 owner was complaining about the time it takes to read a disc. read my review athttp://www.stereomojo.com/Virtue%20Audio%20PianoM1%20Cd%20Player/VirtueAudioPianoCDPlayer.htm
'He' got 5-15 seconds from a stop-watch! I must admit the longer time is as you point out, just after the Piano is powered up. I have just put a random selection of 6 CD's into the Piano, and 5 of them did bring up the TOC in around 5 seconds (again, timed with a stop-watch from when the draw is closed). One took 8 seconds.
The only other thing that I can add to my initial review of the Piano is that the sound just keeps getting better!
I also use a Squeezebox (SB3) and would rate the Piano just ahead of that as a source through my DAC (modified Scott Nixon DacKit). However, it's not far enough ahead for me to forego the convenience of the Squeezebox for everyday use. But as I am fortunate enough to run two great systems, the Piano is very much in use, particularly for reviewing other equipment.
What a pity that Seth didn't fall in love with Angelina Jolie - the recent sale could have gone on indefinitely! :lol:
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...and then my new Piano M1 was delivered. :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
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Happy Days Eclein and happy listening...the initial no-power to power initialization hence added delay is not the draw or TOC control processor IMO it is the primary initialization and is no different to any other system, noting that others have a Standby that suckle power 24/7.
I much prefer the M1 to my previous referencing unit NAIM cd5i a warm sounding unit all over the spectrum, great in the lows if undefined and soft in the highs but not as spatious as the M1...oh, and the NAIM display stopped functioning after a few weeks and NAIM have terrible after-service! :o
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The whole thing about a delay is a NON-issue as far as I'm concerned, the unit itself is very solid and extremely well built. Easily the nicest piece I own and the sound is excellent. I'm listening to Jean-Luc Ponty and the dimensionality and dynamics are incredible. The subtleties and nuance in the music are more apparent and nicely presented. Spatious is a good way to put it, the DAC in this piece is wonderful...I haven't done a direct comparison yet to playback of wav files via my SB but I don't recall hearing such fullness and rich musical landscapes as I do with the Piano M1. I'll post some pics later on, they are great looking pieces!!!
:thumb:
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The whole thing about a delay is a NON-issue as far as I'm concerned, the unit itself is very solid and extremely well built. Easily the nicest piece I own and the sound is excellent. I'm listening to Jean-Luc Ponty and the dimensionality and dynamics are incredible. The subtleties and nuance in the music are more apparent and nicely presented. Spatious is a good way to put it, the DAC in this piece is wonderful...I haven't done a direct comparison yet to playback of wav files via my SB but I don't recall hearing such fullness and rich musical landscapes as I do with the Piano M1. I'll post some pics later on, they are great looking pieces!!!
:thumb:
Mine kept improving im sound up to about 350-400 hours of listening. Digital just takes longer to burn in.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34969)
I am really enjoying this unit. The gain is such that matching it for a comparison with my Squeezebox playing wav files is tough. The Piano M1 has a bit more gain so a direct A/B is a challenge, so I played some tracks via the SB and then the same ones via the Piano M1 and took some notes.
The 1st setup is Piano M1 analog outputs into DAC/Preamp then into tube buffer and on to Virtue TWO.2, The 2nd is Squeezebox's optical outputs to DAC/Preamp then into tube buffer and on to Virtue TWO.2. So I'm essentially using two different DACs to play back the same media, Piano M1 with its internal DAC playing a CD and Squeezebox DUET going into Tube DAC-09 and playing back wav files.
The Piano M1 pretty much smokes the Squeezebox...I've been listening via the SB for the most part lately and have been enjoying the sound-it sounds great but the Piano M1 is better. CD playback is phenomenal, very dimensional and detailed with a bigger sound stage and superior imaging. The music is just out in the room more, it does not sound like speakers are involved except for channel specific passages. The SB/DAC-09 combo sounds just a bit flatter and more of a reproduction then the Piano M1. The Piano really adds depth to the playback with the dynamics of the musical performance just coming through better and effortlessly.
I was absolutely content and enjoyed listening to music via the SB but the Piano does it better, cleaner....its difficult to explain but not difficult to hear. I like it-alot!!
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
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Guys,
I've sent about 8 units out myself so far, and I have only encountered 1 Piano with a delay, that one did not go out. It plays fine just has a noticeable delay in reading and being ready to play the disc. It's possible the reviewer received a similar unit from our old warehouse who didn't know what quality control was (sorry Seth). Here's what I've noticed:
If you insert a scratched disc, it will take longer to read (duh :D )
It seems to accept almost any burned disc just fine
I've played plenty of my scratched discs on Jason's Piano and other then the normal skipping and some delay in reading them the Piano handles them pretty well.
Anyway, I don't know what kind of cd players you all have had, but the Cambridge DVD player we have takes WAAAAY longer to load discs.
Anyway, just my observations from the other side :wink:
Back to work!
Cam
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eclein:
Any meaningful comparison of sources requires that volume levels be matched. The louder source always wins.
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.. a direct A/B is a challenge, so I played some tracks via the SB and then the same ones via the Piano M1 and took some notes.
Larry, thats why I took notes so I could be on the same page with both sources as best I could.
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Your method does not provide a direct comparison. Sorry, but direct A/B w/ matched levels.
I recently sold an Arcam DV-78, which while it is a DVD player, is a very good CD player as well. I needed to check it out before the buyer came. Same amplifier, same speakers, same cables. I compared it to my Squeezebox Touch w/ analog mods by Bolder and all the Soundcheck software improvements but just back from Wayne's. I used either EAC or dBpoweramp to rip all music files to flac. Touch was wired and flac conversion at the server.
The Arcam has a higher output but with matched volume from an older Ratshack analog sound meter, the Touch was easily the more realistic source. Ease of use was obviously no contest. The Arcam was a $5000 player when new.
Perhaps the Virtue Piano @ $700 is a better sounding player than the Arcam. The only way I can prove that is to run the same test with it.
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Well it is apparent I am pretty high on the Maverick DAC in my photography studio. We do get serious about tunes and party there. But..
in my main room for my wife and I we are using the Eastern Electric DAC straight from high rez via the Imac and it is freakin' brilliant! But..
the Piano straight to the Eastern Electric pre to the Dodd Sensation out to Omega SuperHemps..
reference!!!
Seriously the M1 Piano is quantum leaps..
My redbooks are going no where but by my chair in my main room.
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These are pretty special, I can see why folks ask Seth about creating a DAC separately based on this chip...the combination of the extremely solid build factor and the onboard DAC create a killer piece! I honestly did not think the sound quality of my system could be elevated so much with a dedicated CD player but I was wrong, Piano M1 just kills it!!
The way I see it Seth is pretty much a genius for being able to bring all these components together...Its gotta start with an idea about what will work together and what won't, so as some point these had to be tested and listened to and given a green light by someone.. Seth has some golden ears!!!
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
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Not what I like to do. I prefer to run one component for a week or so then switch back to the other component for another week, etc. It is pretty easy to tell which I like better when I live with them for a while.
Your method does not provide a direct comparison. Sorry, but direct A/B w/ matched levels.
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It is pretty easy to tell which I like better when I live with them for a while.
For a second there I thought you were referring to women!! :D
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The cheapest way I have found to improve the sound of the Piano is to use this power cord for $30.
Pangea Audio - AC-14 - Power Cable
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14&variation=1
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These are pretty special, I can see why folks ask Seth about creating a DAC separately based on this chip...
Count me in. I *hope* a DAC is in the works and Seth is keeping quiet for obvious reasons.
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After a week of pretty much continuous play, man oh man this unit is sweet!! :thumb: :thumb:
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OzarkTom....thanks for the tip on the power cord!!! Best and easiest way to take it all up a notch for sure. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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OK.. Recap. Seth hit a home run with the Piano. I have two Sensations and I still feel the Piano is the best product Virtue produces.
I am trying to be a hard drive dude. Ain't happening. Expensive DACS , M2Tech USB thingy not.
My reference listening is not happening here in KC unless I am putting CD's in my Piano.
I love my Eastern Electric DAC as it makes beautiful music but my Piano may just be the most value on the planet for the bang for your buck I have ever known.
My original post still stands.
This has to be the most analog sounding Digital player ever.
thanks for looking,
Tom
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Can't wait to hear the Virtue DAC!
Scott
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The cheapest way I have found to improve the sound of the Piano is to use this power cord for $30.
Pangea Audio - AC-14 - Power Cable
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14&variation=1
I need one of these and two of the high current power ones.
Awesome deal. Users seems to rave about them. :scratch:
.......and Piano ........ROCKS!
Excellent value.
Mariusz :thumb:
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"Can't wait to hear the Virtue DAC!
Scott"
OUCH!
:duh: :scratch:
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Enjoy your PIANO - you aren't missing a beat.
I own some $$$$ dacs and still enjoy the Piano......while I can. :lol:
Mariusz :thumb:
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Hey Mariusz
Check out David Knoflers Ship of Fools.
Just sent MR. Virtue SK a copy!
Good stuff.
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Got milk???? I mean Link? :wink:
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http://www.amazon.com/Ship-of-Dreams/dp/B001BTCW14/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1285384610&sr=8-2-spell
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:thumb:
Thanks
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-9U7EzaJL._SS500_.jpg)
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I have now owned my Piano for approximately a month and could not be more pleased! It has such a beautifully sweet sound from its own DAC that I have yet to use my system DAC, a transformer-coupled magiDAC.
The Piano output is fed to my Virtue One, thence to several different balanced headphones via the speaker terminals.
The sound is stunning with all of my phones. I will soon be returning to Virtue's order desk for my Virtue 2.2 and battery power supply!
Ron