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Industry Circles => Empirical Audio => Topic started by: audioengr on 10 May 2012, 05:35 pm

Title: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 10 May 2012, 05:35 pm
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/empirical4/1.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/empirical4/1.html)

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: bhobba on 10 May 2012, 10:47 pm
As usual another excellent review by John.

I use USB personally but that idea of using it with the optical out of a TV sure is a nifty idea that may even entice me to get one.

Thanks
Bill
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: mcandy on 10 May 2012, 11:08 pm
When does this go on sale?
Thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 10 May 2012, 11:23 pm
When does this go on sale?
Thanks

Been shipping for a couple of weeks now.

You can PayPal $634.00 to nugent@empiricalaudio.com if you are in the US

You can PayPal $670.00 to nugent@empiricalaudio.com if you are outside the US

I'm running a continuous backlog of about 10 orders, so its 2-3 weeks lead-time.  Getting close to Newport Beach show, June 1, so that puts it out another week.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Audioexcels on 11 May 2012, 02:16 am
Didn't know Drako wrote for 6 moons...or does 6 moons hire him, make the layout 6 moons looking, then just leave his writing as it usually is in his blogs?

I think the most "important" thing here, besides the sound (obviously), is that we have a device that can feed multiple devices.  Now that's what I call versatility...I can literally use this for my computer, my tv, run a wire to my other rooms for systems in those rooms, list goes on and on.

Good work:)!  I'd be looking forward to a super nice clocking device like this one, but with performance more in line with the OR5 w/Hynes.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: bhakti on 11 May 2012, 02:18 am
Would like to see a reviewed product for sale on your website - is that asking too much?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 11 May 2012, 02:40 am
Would like to see a reviewed product for sale on your website - is that asking too much?

One thing one must have with Empirical Audio is patience.  Many customers asked that I design a new custom chassis for my Overdrive DAC.  I warned them that this is very time-consuming, but I did what they asked.  The final panels and knobs are finally coming next week, so I can finally take all of my new products to the pro photographer and finally put these on the website.

I dont have a staff of marketers, so I have to take these products to the photo session myself and direct the photographer.  I have to write all of the verbage for the webpages.  I wear a lot of hats here.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: bhakti on 11 May 2012, 02:46 am
Completely understand and sympathize!  But why summit it for review if it is not for 'sale'?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: johnnydarko on 11 May 2012, 03:49 am
Didn't know Drako wrote for 6 moons...or does 6 moons hire him, make the layout 6 moons looking, then just leave his writing as it usually is in his blogs?

Who's "Drako"?   :o

6Moons don't "hire" me.  I write for them voluntarily (and without payment).  I also supply (most) photos.  Srajan then ties it all together for publication on his website.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: johnnydarko on 11 May 2012, 03:57 am
As usual another excellent review by John.

I use USB personally but that idea of using it with the optical out of a TV sure is a nifty idea that may even entice me to get one.

Thanks
Bill

Thanks Bill!   :thumb: 

I've been using is with the Pure i20 iPod dock this morning and really dig the combo.  Might write a short follow-up piece on my own site about this very soon.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Audioexcels on 11 May 2012, 04:21 am
Who's "Drako"?   :o

6Moons don't "hire" me.  I write for them voluntarily (and without payment).  I also supply (most) photos.  Srajan then ties it all together for publication on his website.

I thought Drako would be more fitting for you, as a meaner kinda name:)))  Only a poor joke of course, along with my dyslexia getting names correct since I have followed most all of your blogs and appreciate the way you write and conduct things.  You express your opinion, but you also leave things in the air.  In other words, I never seem to find you sticking out like some sore thumb typical writer that boasts so big about something as if it's the holy grail of all things...and comes with soooo much adjectivity:)))  You have a good balance of not stretching things too far with the verbage which I prefer.

Thanks for the review and keep up the good work with your AU site!

Cheers John "Drako" Darko:))
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 11 May 2012, 04:46 am
Completely understand and sympathize!  But why summit it for review if it is not for 'sale'?

I usually do product intros on this forum.  I have been selling it for about 2 weeks now.  I have shipped 7 or 8 and will be shipping another 10 soon.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: daz_bike on 11 May 2012, 12:30 pm
Hi Steve,

Any chance to have AES/EBU out from the reclocker?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: wisnon on 11 May 2012, 02:43 pm
One thing one must have with Empirical Audio is patience.  Many customers asked that I design a new custom chassis for my Overdrive DAC.  I warned them that this is very time-consuming, but I did what they asked.  The final panels and knobs are finally coming next week, so I can finally take all of my new products to the pro photographer and finally put these on the website.

I dont have a staff of marketers, so I have to take these products to the photo session myself and direct the photographer.  I have to write all of the verbage for the webpages.  I wear a lot of hats here.

Steve N.



Yup...very busy man. The good ones usually are!
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 11 May 2012, 04:46 pm
Hi Steve,

Any chance to have AES/EBU out from the reclocker?

Perhpas if I do a HDMI I2S output version.  Not sure it will all fit on the backpanel.
Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: jrem on 26 May 2012, 10:36 pm
I decided to register so I could post about this product, adding my 2cents.

Yesterday my ordered Synchro-Mesh Reclocker arrived from Steve at Emperical.

It sits in my system between the SONOS as a source and the REGA DAC.

The difference it makes is rather astonishing.    Though I ordered it after reading all about what a good re-clocker can do for digital music it's effect is beyond my expectations.

Everything sounds more present, more spacious, and more alive.   It's a bit too early to tell but I feel like it will result in less fatigue as well.

Very happy with this new purchase.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Turnandcough on 21 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm
I'm interested in the SM but I have a few(many) questions.

Is a bit perfect version in the works?
The Squeezebox Touch is reputed to have very low jitter. To what extent can the SM improve on this?
What is the downside of having redbook files upsampled to 24/96 vs having 24/96 files downsampled to 16/44?
For someone who already owns a Touch how would you rate the Touch/SM combo vs investing in a standard Off-Ramp 5?
Why is the SM not listed on your website?   

Thank you
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 21 Jun 2012, 04:56 pm
I'm interested in the SM but I have a few(many) questions.

Is a bit perfect version in the works?

No, that was the Pace-Car.  Its still possible to get recycled Pace-Cars.  There are more restrictions with their use however, and it is usually more expensive.

Quote
The Squeezebox Touch is reputed to have very low jitter. To what extent can the SM improve on this?

Lots of products have low-jitter, but the jitter spectra is critically important.  Also, many of these specs have dubious measurement criteria.  The proof is in the pudding.  All have reported excellent results with SB Touch.

Quote
What is the downside of having redbook files upsampled to 24/96 vs having 24/96 files downsampled to 16/44?

Simple. Most DACs use a brick-wall digital filter for 44.1, whereas the filter is less steep and higher in frequency with 96.  Generally sounds better.  Digital filters, next to jitter are the biggest issues in digital audio.

Quote
For someone who already owns a Touch how would you rate the Touch/SM combo vs investing in a standard Off-Ramp 5?

The Touch/SM I would give a 7.5.  The Off-Ramp 5 is a 10.

Quote
Why is the SM not listed on your website?

It is currently on Pace-Car page.  It will get its own page once I have the photos from my photographer and my webmaster updates the website.  About 1-2 weeks.  Things happen slowly in central Oregon.....

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Turnandcough on 30 Jun 2012, 12:18 am
Thanks for your detailed reply.

I'm still pondering this. What would be optimal cable lengths between Touch>SM>DAC?

Unless there's a problem I'd like to keep cables as short as possible - ideally 6-12" and would probably opt for S/PDIF
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 30 Jun 2012, 01:55 am
Thanks for your detailed reply.

I'm still pondering this. What would be optimal cable lengths between Touch>SM>DAC?

Unless there's a problem I'd like to keep cables as short as possible - ideally 6-12" and would probably opt for S/PDIF

Short is never good for digital unless it is really short.  You can use a cheap cable from touch to SM, but use a good cable from SM to DAC.  1.5m length is best.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Rclark on 7 Jul 2012, 05:30 am
I decided to register so I could post about this product, adding my 2cents.

Yesterday my ordered Synchro-Mesh Reclocker arrived from Steve at Emperical.

It sits in my system between the SONOS as a source and the REGA DAC.

The difference it makes is rather astonishing.    Though I ordered it after reading all about what a good re-clocker can do for digital music it's effect is beyond my expectations.

Everything sounds more present, more spacious, and more alive.   It's a bit too early to tell but I feel like it will result in less fatigue as well.

Very happy with this new purchase.


 Care to elaborate any further?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Audioexcels on 7 Jul 2012, 07:40 am
One thing I do not understand is when a person such as the one above that is enjoying their new SM says something like "less fatiguing".  It's as if something is very wrong somewhere in the system to make digital sound fatiguing in any way whatsoever.  I used to have this feeling of fatigue or just flat out could not stand digital, but nowadays, and for really about 6? years now, I don't find digital to be fatiguing whatsoever. 
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: mordo on 9 Jul 2012, 07:24 pm
Hi Steve N. and Empirical Audio.
Very pleased with what the little Syncro-Mesh can give the sound ......... for now are just a few hours of listening and has already started a stage bigger, deeper, better definition of the instruments Stage ....... in short, a nice "toy" really.
Congratulations! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Rclark on 9 Jul 2012, 09:10 pm

 Can you please describe your system and elaborate a bit further on changes brought on by the Synchromesh?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: mordo on 10 Jul 2012, 11:49 am
I do not know what you mean by change, but my system is as follows:
DIY Music Server specifically for liquid music, with SO Windws 7 with output S / PDIF sound card EMU1212.
Program used for the reproduction FOOBAR
Bifrost Schiit Dac / Dac GIGALAB Moon Nos. modified Mark II
All cables are DIY silver
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 15 Aug 2012, 06:26 pm
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/41819-synchro-mesh/ (http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/41819-synchro-mesh/)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: bpape on 15 Aug 2012, 07:07 pm
Broken link.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: srb on 15 Aug 2012, 07:40 pm
http://www.stereonet.au/forums/index.php?/topic/41819-synchro-mesh/ (http://www.stereonet.au/forums/index.php?/topic/41819-synchro-mesh/)

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/41819-synchro-mesh/
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ACarney on 17 Aug 2012, 05:47 am

     I just purchased the Synchro-Mesh from Steve at Empirical Audio and must say that it outperforms my Monarchy DIP with a much more detailed presentation.  The Monarchy did increase the output voltage to my DAC's which translated in more gain which the Empirical unit does not do but the reconstructed digital stream is more accurate with the SM.  I used to own a Thor Audio DC-1000 but lost it in a house fire and the Synchro-Mesh would have pushed the envelope with that DAC.  Presently I have the CIA VDA-2 and outboard power supply and the SM is making this DAC sing like all get out.  Very pleased with The SM.  Thanks Steve.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 17 Aug 2012, 07:08 pm
Thanks for the heads up. Good to hear it's doing good in ur system, sad to hear about a fire wrecking ur stuff tho. I ordered mine, hopefully will be getting it in a couple of weeks. Can't wait to see what it'll do to my Peachtree IDac.

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 19 Aug 2012, 05:17 pm
For some USB interfaces, the Short-Block does not work:

Rega DAC
Off-Ramp 3


I'll add more here as we discover them.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Fozzy on 26 Oct 2012, 08:01 am
I have been using the SM for a week in my system.  My set up is as follows:
Audiocom modded Sonos ZP90->SM->Teddy Pardo TeddyDAC->Naim NAC52/Supercap->2xNaim NAP135 Monoblocks->Wilson Benesch Discovery.  I am streaming WAVs ripped using dB Poweramp over  Ethernet from  a Synology NAS.

The ZP90 mods are mostly in the power supplies and there is no change to the digital processing circuitry and the output is unchanged as 44.1/16.  I know that the ZP90 mods are effectively negated by the SM but wanted to be clear that my comparison is against a modded ZP90 as a baseline.

In summary I would say the effect of the SM is to present a more refined image: smoother highs with less sibillance, more focused images with less of a 'halo' around them. Images which used to be well placed in the 2-d soundstage now have depth and a more tangible physical presence in the room.  The increase in refinement did cause me to question whether some musical edge and excitement had been lost, but when I went back to the SM I always ended up preferring the new presentation of the music.   I did find that bass  output has increased a little and is fuller, which in my relatively small listening room is not entirely desirable.

The SM addresses a real gap in the market; improving the audio quality of affordable consumer audio streamers which have price, usability and home integration as design requirements ahead of absolute audio quality.  The fact it does this without the need to mod the transport is a huge bonus: no more invalidated warranties ! 

 I was able to try a W4S modded Sonos some months back.  The overall effect of the up sampling were  similar, but from memory not so convincing as the SM.

ASRC technology seems to get a mixed response, but my experience is a positive one.  I have recently had my Cyrus DAC factory upgraded to their Qx specification: it also uses ASRC to 192khz and the results are great.

If you are a Sonos owner looking to get the best out of your music I would commend you to give this a go: if you are not impressed Steve offers a refund-mine is staying put!
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 22 Nov 2012, 07:10 pm
Steve I want to buy one. Is there a wait? Thanks, cooch
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: trekker on 22 Nov 2012, 07:48 pm
I just bought one and I believe it took less than 2 weeks from when I ordered to when I actually received it. It was delayed several days due to UPS issues. Just love what it does for my Sonos SP90!!!
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 23 Nov 2012, 12:54 am
Steve I want to buy one. Is there a wait? Thanks, cooch

Maybe 2-3 weeks.  I still have some backlog, but working hard to reduce it.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 25 Nov 2012, 02:20 am
Steve,

I'm not quite sure how much gain in jitter reduction I might get by inserting a Synchro- Mesh reclocker between my Auraliti PK100 digital file player & my Metrum Octave DAC, as I find it very hard to stop my music listening sessions with this configuration by itself, but I was curious enough to order the SM.

I would bet that more than a few people would think they were listening to a( more detailed) SACD.rather than the dB poweramp ripped redbook layer of the disc. In any case it should be an interesting comparison once I've inserted the SM into the playback chain.

Thanks for your innovative thinking,can't wait to try this !

Steve A.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 10 Dec 2012, 07:49 pm
Well, I have had my Synchro Mesh close to a month now and I must say I am not impressed. I am using it with a modified Squeeze Box Touch with the top of the line HiDiamond digital coax going into my Cary SACD Pro Dac. Going back and forth with or without the Synchro Mesh there is little if any improvement. The only improvement may be a slight softening of the vocals and I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 11 Dec 2012, 07:21 pm
Well, I have had my Synchro Mesh close to a month now and I must say I am not impressed. I am using it with a modified Squeeze Box Touch with the top of the line HiDiamond digital coax going into my Cary SACD Pro Dac. Going back and forth with or without the Synchro Mesh there is little if any improvement. The only improvement may be a slight softening of the vocals and I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

It is quite possible that a modded SB Touch is about the same as a stock one with the Synchro-Mesh. 

It also may be that the AC power in your area has low-voltage and the AC adapter is not working at its optimum.  Trying another supply may make all the difference.  There are a lot of variables here.

Most of the improvements with the SM will be in the imaging and soundstage width and depth.  Every system is different.


Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: NickS on 11 Dec 2012, 10:38 pm
Well, I have had my Synchro Mesh close to a month now and I must say I am not impressed. I am using it with a modified Squeeze Box Touch with the top of the line HiDiamond digital coax going into my Cary SACD Pro Dac. Going back and forth with or without the Synchro Mesh there is little if any improvement. The only improvement may be a slight softening of the vocals and I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

The Synchro Mesh added significant improvement in soundstage and image using it with a Bolder digital modded Squeezebox Touch in my system... was pretty apparent A/B.

I have the 96K version and have it set to 16 bits resolution.

What are the other components of your system, Ozzy?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 12 Dec 2012, 01:12 am
It's been a couple of months now that i've had my Synchro Mesh in my system. Apple TV --> Synchro-Mesh --> Peachtree Audio iDac --> Amp --> Speakers --> World

     Was the difference big? Depends on what you call big. If by big you mean that my speakers morphed into 8 way 6 meter tall cabinets with angel wings. Then no, changes weren't big.  If by big you mean that by doing A/B test, in the first try you could tell the improvements, then yes changes were big.
    Changes:  Instruments and sounds  were noticeably more focused. Because of this, the sound, over all, seemed to take a considerable step forward. This helped in the overall believability of the sounds. Actually, sound was so focused at first, that the music seemed to be reaching the "Analytical" sounding boundary. But it never got there. But as the Mesh broke in, with time,  this eased quite a bit and it's no longer a factor. All the good qualities that i stated before stayed, and the analytical sounding part took a 50mg chill pill and Relaxed. Music is still  focused, but fun focused. Music has more reach in the upper edge as well as the lower ranges. Another important and definitive improvement was soundstage. It grew quiet a bit, vertically most noticeably.
Just for fun, and to be able to appreciate these improvements more, i decided one day that I'd last a whole day without the Synchro Mesh in my system. That lasted about  3 songs. Music wasn't as fun. Simple as that.
Another observation: I noticed that in my system the 16 bit option sounded better over the 24 bit. The difference mainly being in all the improvements that i mentioned before being more noticeable. ( Mrs. Signed and Aprooved )  I gotta say that, every system is different, and every system acts differently to what spices we throw at it. So I would encourage anyone to try both settings and see what works best. 
I'm using a wireworld starlight 6 coaxial rca  out of the Synchro Mesh.  I'm very happy with it but I'm gonna be looking into upgrading now in xmas time..That particular conection (Sychro Mesh --> Dac) is very important in my system, and i'm looking forward to what a higher end cable can do to my system. Any recommendations?

Watthead
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 12 Dec 2012, 06:33 pm
I would normally recommend the Ridge Street Audio Poiema that I sell, but the guy has dropped off the earth.  Not returning phone calls, emails or filling orders....

It is the best cable I have found, even a tiny bit better than my discontinued Bitmeister.

I've heard good things about the Audioquest Coffee, but never heard one.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 12 Dec 2012, 10:57 pm
Thanks everybody for the help. The rest of my system is Pass Labs XP-10 Preamp, Pass Labs X350.5 Amp. Speakers are the Eggleston Works Andra 2. I am using all HiDiamond interconnects and power cords. I have three dedicated outlets and I have an Audience aRt 2- TO connected to each deicated line. I also have a Synergistic Powercell SE.
Probably Friday I will try the 16 bit vs the 24 bit setting.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 13 Dec 2012, 12:38 am
Thanks everybody for the help. The rest of my system is Pass Labs XP-10 Preamp, Pass Labs X350.5 Amp. Speakers are the Eggleston Works Andra 2. I am using all HiDiamond interconnects and power cords. I have three dedicated outlets and I have an Audience aRt 2- TO connected to each deicated line. I also have a Synergistic Powercell SE.
Probably Friday I will try the 16 bit vs the 24 bit setting.

Have you tried the SM straight to the wall with no conditioner?

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: NickS on 13 Dec 2012, 12:56 am
Thanks everybody for the help. The rest of my system is Pass Labs XP-10 Preamp, Pass Labs X350.5 Amp. Speakers are the Eggleston Works Andra 2. I am using all HiDiamond interconnects and power cords. I have three dedicated outlets and I have an Audience aRt 2- TO connected to each deicated line. I also have a Synergistic Powercell SE.
Probably Friday I will try the 16 bit vs the 24 bit setting.

VERY nice system you have there, ozzy. 

One more suggestion... if you have a glass TOSLINK cable hanging around, try it from the SM to your DAC.  I don't wish to open a can of worms but I had a few issues with coax that completely went away with the TOSLINK cable.  My suspicion is that there is an intrinsic ground issue with the modded Touch through the coax output.  Your DAC may be susceptible to this as was mine. 

If I'm correct in my assumption, the SM simply passes this fault through the coax cable to your DAC since their is no galvanic isolation at any point in the signal transfer.

Joy for you might be within reach... the TOSLINK approach worked out particularly well for me and made my SM shine as it does.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 13 Dec 2012, 01:39 pm
Steve, just got the SM yesterday....using the coax connection into my DAC-wow, what a difference with the sonos-it is actually very enjoyable to listen to now........couple questions: 1) any difference after break in?  2) i want to also use the optical with my home theater receiver and need some advice on proper hook up. i have the sonos going to the optical in on the receiver. my receiver has an optical out. here's how i want to hook up the SM to the receiver-let me know if this is right or wrong-sonos optical out to receiver, receiver optical out to SM optical in, SM optical out to DAC. Is this correct and will the SM make a difference in this application also? thanks for Steve's and anyone else's input.........

tommy cooch
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 13 Dec 2012, 07:28 pm
VERY nice system you have there, ozzy. 

One more suggestion... if you have a glass TOSLINK cable hanging around, try it from the SM to your DAC.  I don't wish to open a can of worms but I had a few issues with coax that completely went away with the TOSLINK cable.  My suspicion is that there is an intrinsic ground issue with the modded Touch through the coax output.  Your DAC may be susceptible to this as was mine. 

If I'm correct in my assumption, the SM simply passes this fault through the coax cable to your DAC since their is no galvanic isolation at any point in the signal transfer.

Joy for you might be within reach... the TOSLINK approach worked out particularly well for me and made my SM shine as it does.

Actually all inputs and outputs on the SM are galvanically isolated.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 13 Dec 2012, 07:33 pm
Steve, just got the SM yesterday....using the coax connection into my DAC-wow, what a difference with the sonos-it is actually very enjoyable to listen to now........couple questions: 1) any difference after break in?

Yes, it should improve for about 1 week.

Quote
2) i want to also use the optical with my home theater receiver and need some advice on proper hook up. i have the sonos going to the optical in on the receiver. my receiver has an optical out. here's how i want to hook up the SM to the receiver-let me know if this is right or wrong-sonos optical out to receiver, receiver optical out to SM optical in, SM optical out to DAC. Is this correct and will the SM make a difference in this application also? thanks for Steve's and anyone else's input.........

tommy cooch

If you are trying to loop the receiver signal through the SM, this is probably the way to do it.  If you are trying to just send the Sonos signal to the receiver, then all you need is the toslink output from the SM to go to the toslink input on the receiver.

steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 13 Dec 2012, 09:24 pm
thanks Steve. also, when switching between 16 bit and 24 there is absolutely no difference in sound quality. is that right? thanks


tommy
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 13 Dec 2012, 11:14 pm
Synchro Mesh mini review:

New guy here, and I'm posting because me and Steve thought that you guys wanting to try using supplies other than the Wall-Wart, or one that Steve recommends, might benefit from my experience..

System consists of:
Bel Canto DAC3.5VB MKII with the VB supply fed from a Pure I-20 Ipod Transport, directly feeding custom VRD 60wpc mono tube amps.
Speakers are JBL L220's highly modified with extensively upgraded crossovers.

I had Steve make me a custom cable so that I may use my VBS1 Supply to run the SMR. Listed below is the email I sent to Steve with my findings:


The SMR came at 9:00 this morning. Kind of strange for UPS to come that early around here, but all the better.

Got it all hooked up and tried the VB Supply first. Sat down for a listen and it was not pretty. Very edgy, tiny soundstage, and just distracting to say the least. So, I figured I'd let it all warm up. Waited about an hour and sat down again, nothing improved. At all! Then I figured I better try the wall wart..

Plugged it in, then sat down. AHH! Music again! Thank god.. Listened to a familiar track and could her some improvements to the system. I let it play for another hour, then sat down for another listen... Won't get too lengthy with thoughts on multiple tracks, so here are my findings on one:

One of my favorites; Fourplay, Swamp Jazz. This band is fantastic for my tastes, and display musicianship like few others do. No distortion to cover up lousy musicians here. Just talent.

Guitars sounded cleaner, faster and more real, with excellent visual stimulation. Positioning improved. Piano rang true, could depict fingers plucking the keys, and pedal effects greatly enhanced. The size of the venue more translated due to an up-scaled reverb effect. An effect that before, translated to my room size, rather than the larger than my room effect of the actual venue. Quite cool indeed. Lovely ladies breathing into the mics with a soft ahh that sounded like noise before. Drum attacks more there and defined, translating the aggressiveness or subtlety of the drummer.  Symbols realistically crashed and waved with greater visual impact. Realized actual life and tension on the silent breaks. The bass more realistically fluttered.

These improvements described are what matter to me. Let mine be a killer band to listen to over a vocal performance any day. Nice job Steve.

I'm now questioning how good (or not good) the VBS1 Supply actually is. I'm assuming that Bel Canto took steps with their mate-able products to actually get positive results using the VB, but it is not good for this particular application.

No, you are not getting this thing back.
Thank you!

Summing up. Use the Wall-Wart, or a supply that Steve recommends.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 14 Dec 2012, 12:44 am
thanks Steve. also, when switching between 16 bit and 24 there is absolutely no difference in sound quality. is that right? thanks


tommy

No.  Like it says in the manual, you should try both to determine which your DAC likes better.  One will usually sound better.

Make sure to power down between changes.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 14 Dec 2012, 07:23 pm
My SMr arrived yesterday afternoon (2pm, est.) & I've had it "cookin w/ music" since it's arrival . As it is "brand spanking new" I'll only relay a few of my initial impressions.

I had hoped my Blackcat Audio Silverstar digital coax would arrived in time , I ended up using a Cardas coax for my Reclocker to DAC link  &  a Harmonic Technology "Digital Copper" BNC to RCA  from my Auraliti PK100 to SMr. Once the Blackcat arrives the configuration will change to PK100>Blackcat>SMr>HT"DC">Metrum Octave DAC. I will eventually swap out the RCA connector on the Metrum for a BNC so that all the connections will be BNC. ( Given the quality of this DAC I'm a bit puzzled at the choice of an RCA over a BNC )

First let me say the case used for the SMr while plain is visually "tight" & inspires some confidence that the inside circuit is also carefully executed. (Anyone remember"Yadis"). I've listened only very shortly ,but I believe I've gained a slight bit of volume range on my Burson Soloist HP amp/pre. (I only have about 100hrs of listening time on my HiFiman HE-500s so I'm not quite sure what to attribute this change to yet). The Auraliti has two pretty good crystal oscillators on a sound card ,but the sound is slightly different now. I'm not
sure how things will shake out once I've changed the configurations(Do any of us in this hobby ever come to a configuration we stop tweaking ?), but I think it's  :thumb: so far !
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 15 Dec 2012, 09:52 pm
Well, I am now playing the Syncro Mesh set at 16 bits. It is a very different perspective. At this point I am not sure if this is an improvement over the 24 bit setting.I'll let it play a few days and then switch back to the 24 bit.
Question: With the 16 bit setting how does 24/96 music perform. That is, is it played back as 16 bits?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 16 Dec 2012, 12:28 am
Well, I am now playing the Syncro Mesh set at 16 bits. It is a very different perspective. At this point I am not sure if this is an improvement over the 24 bit setting.I'll let it play a few days and then switch back to the 24 bit.
Question: With the 16 bit setting how does 24/96 music perform. That is, is it played back as 16 bits?

Yes.  Dont discount 16 bits.  It can sound great.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 18 Dec 2012, 09:19 pm
I spent a little more time listening to my system w/ the SMR in line, things are getting pretty interesting !

With any one of the 500+(480+ Classical) dBPoweramp ripped to uncompressed lossless FLAC or Wav, CDs on the USB external HD feeding my Auraliti PK100, I was wrong in guessing what was playing . What I thought to be a Tony Faulkner engineered, Hyperion or Helios recording turned out to be a Naxos recording. While my respect for the recording qualities of the Naxos label has increased , I'm not so sure they generally exhibit the more distinct soundstaging characteristics as other labels consistently do. They do however get "lucky" sometimes & don't mess up the results of the engineer on some sessions. This was'nt the first time I'd listened to this recording on my system, while I thought it  sounded good , I did'nt think it was this good .

In the less densely orchestrated sections of the Tone Poem "Ondine"(George Templeton Strong) the dialog between a single xinstrument or two & the small choirs of instruments playing with them it was very easy to follow the musical theme or the counterpoint. As the orchestration increased the clarity of the individual sections was'nt as obscured by the increased dynamic contrasts that I normally just accept as commonplace with a lot of Orchestral recordings. Trust me, this is not a "trick" Naxos pulls off on a regular basis. Toward the end of the piece there are 1 or 2 drum hits that surprised me not for their impact (not tympani drums) but for the fact I heard some harmonic texture to them ! (Are you kidding me ??, honestly)

I think you might have a pretty nice clock in this box, Steve. (& I'm not using the cables I want to yet !)

Thanks,
Steve A.



Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 18 Dec 2012, 11:34 pm
Well, the 16 bit was definitely different but not better. The 24 bit setting has a much deeper sound stage while the 16 bit setting was more flat line, but with a little more bass.
This weekend, I will remove the SM from the system to see just how much it may/ or may not be contributing.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 19 Dec 2012, 05:17 am
You will not be able to put it back in fast enough.
Title: Problem with Synchro-Mesh
Post by: cooch on 19 Dec 2012, 10:29 am
Hi Steve. The SM is sounding great when using the coaxial connections from sonos to dac to integrated. However, I need help with the toslink connection. I am also trying to run the sonos to SM to a surround receiver thru the toslink connections. But, something seems wrong with the toslink connection. I am getting sound from my surround system even when the switch is on coax, even though the surround system is hooked up by toslink.......i can switch back and forth between toslink and coax and still get sound (and it sounds exactly the same even tho the surround receiver is not going thru the Dac).  i would think that since I have the surround receiver hooked up thru the toslink it would only work when the switch is on toslink, and not work if it's on coax. what am i doing wrong? thanks. 
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 19 Dec 2012, 01:03 pm
Steve, same thing happens when I use the sonos/sms/dac into integrated thru coaxial. i toggle back and forth on the SMS between coax and toslink, and music still plays thru integrated, even when toggled to toslink ....i am very confused now...thanks for your help
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: jult52 on 19 Dec 2012, 03:14 pm
Steve (or any other poster):  Could you provide some comparison in terms of performance of the SynchroMesh with well-regarded units like the Audiophilleo 2 or the new Audio gd DSP-V2 or V3?  I am familiar with the units' functionality (and the fact that the AP2 is a USB convertor) and of course realize that the SynchroMesh is your own product, but would be curious about comments you would make.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 19 Dec 2012, 06:52 pm
Steve, same thing happens when I use the sonos/sms/dac into integrated thru coaxial. i toggle back and forth on the SMS between coax and toslink, and music still plays thru integrated, even when toggled to toslink ....i am very confused now...thanks for your help

The selector on the SM selects the input only.  If you have an active signal on the selected input, then all outputs will be active at the same time.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 19 Dec 2012, 06:56 pm
Steve (or any other poster):  Could you provide some comparison in terms of performance of the SynchroMesh with well-regarded units like the Audiophilleo 2 or the new Audio gd DSP-V2 or V3?  I am familiar with the units' functionality (and the fact that the AP2 is a USB convertor) and of course realize that the SynchroMesh is your own product, but would be curious about comments you would make.  Thanks.

The outcome of this type of shootout would depend on the software used for playback with the USB converter.  With most software I believe the SM will beat the USB converter.  If you have done all of the tweaks to the PC and using Foobar and Jplay maybe not.  Even with this it could be close.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 19 Dec 2012, 10:26 pm
Just a short comment today,as I made a discovery last night that I did'nt expect to make !

While waiting for my SM to arrive I spent some time reading any threads about the SM to get a feel for what other users were saying about it. In one of the postings someone mentioned they were using it with the same DAC that I'm using , a Metrum Octave. The poster mentioned that the 24bit setting was a no go with the Octave , so other than a quick listen (which I took to be the "true character" of this setting) I unplugged the SM put the switch on 16bits . I was actually pretty happy with the sound at this setting, until curiosity got the better of me. Guess what ? You know the infamous net saying YMMV ? Truer letters were never typed in this case !

 I should know better when it comes Metrum Octave related comments (but I won't get into that for now). Realistically , even if another user should have two of the same components that you use the odds that the playback results "will" have similar results are highly unlikely . As it turns out the 24bit setting works pretty well in my system . Whether this has anything to do with the BNC connection from the Auraliti to the SM (I'll admit to the unscientific conjecture here) I honestly don't know, but it works.

As Steve keeps reminding us, try the different setting after you've had the SM in your setup for a while. (Sorry for not being brief, but I thought this was worth sharing)

Happy Listening,
Steve A
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 20 Dec 2012, 01:18 am
I'm glad I put that 16/24 switch on there.  Seems like most users of the optional 44.1 output SM like the 16-bit setting best, but it varies for the 96 version.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 20 Dec 2012, 01:25 am
Yup, surprises me. I'm pretty glad at your foresight !
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 20 Dec 2012, 02:09 pm
Steve,
After reading your recent posts, do you prefer the 16 bit setting or the 24 bit?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 20 Dec 2012, 03:37 pm
question............my peachtree dac has 2 settings, one for hi-bit or low bit, and one for non-oversampling or oversampling..........if i set the SM on 16 bit, what settings on the peachtree should sound best?     or if i set the SM on 24 bit, what settings on the peachtree should sound best?     i guess the peachtree should be set the same as the SM?  thanks   
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 20 Dec 2012, 04:48 pm
The 24bit mode is better with my DAC. The 16bit mode was a little soft and some detail was lost. Even though, it still sounded pretty dang good on 16bit. I had no trouble enjoying the music. I can see where some would benefit using the 16bit mode.

A little follow-up: After using it for a week now, I can say that it's gotten even better sounding. Toggling back and forth using my transport with and without the SMR, it is very obvious what this little box does for the sound. Quite an amazing little piece it is, and I am very pleased with it.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 20 Dec 2012, 05:24 pm
Steve,
After reading your recent posts, do you prefer the 16 bit setting or the 24 bit?

Hey Oz,

I know that should'nt be a hard question to answer, (seems I've had better luck here then some people), I've had success with both setting. I'm going to say that I'll probably leave at 24bit setting.

The reason I'm "hedging" a bit is that I have several groups of different "recording perspectives" that seem to benefit from either "opening up the sound stage" a bit or in some cases you might want a bit more "focus". As an example some of the orchestral recordings I like exhibit a "dry" acoustic to the hall . This "recording artifact" has a upside for me, there is a greater specificity to the players spacial relationships to each other. Players don't perform on "infinite" stages. "Well ,we don't hear that much inner detail in the audience" That's okay we have this great tool called "recordings" that lets us hear what we may not have heard live "the inner sound stage"(ain't technology great ?). The problem is sometimes "dry"(actually semi-dry) recordings need some help with the portrayal of width & depth so we can help that by increasing the bit depth & we still have all that wonderful inner sound stage.

On the other hand some recordings (& genres of music, & recording locations) don't benefit from "opening the soundstage up" a setting that is closer to a bit perfect rendition of what was recorded sounds better or "more focused".

The thing is ,try as we might we can't get things perfect. I look at bit depth settings as being like making vta adjustments on a tone arm (& very few of us made adjustments for each album; It went by majority rule of what sounds best...but it's a hell of a lot easier with digital)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Nick B on 21 Dec 2012, 11:27 pm
Steve N.
You mentioned the performance of the SM/Touch as 7.5 vs the Off Ramp as a 10. When a better chip? comes out for the SM, would you expect that to radically improve over the 7.5 performance? Also, if improvements are later available for the SM, could that be an upgrade to the existing SM or would it likely be a brand new unit?
Nick
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 22 Dec 2012, 06:59 pm
Steve N.
You mentioned the performance of the SM/Touch as 7.5 vs the Off Ramp as a 10. When a better chip? comes out for the SM, would you expect that to radically improve over the 7.5 performance? Also, if improvements are later available for the SM, could that be an upgrade to the existing SM or would it likely be a brand new unit?
Nick

Nick - I doubt if the SM will ever match the Off-Ramp 5, however if you use a really good S/PDIF cable and upgrade the PS to a Paulhynesdesign.com SR3-12, then it will be close.  I dont expect any new upsampling chips to be released that are better than the one I use, but you never know....
 
I hope to be selling the SR3-12 on my website in the new year.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 24 Dec 2012, 12:20 am
Well first I took the Synchro Mesh in and out of the system and compared the sound quality differences.
Then I and went back and forth comparing the 16 bit vs the 24 bit.
So, with my system , I can conclude...

With the SM out of the system, the sound has better bass with a solid round quality. With the SM in the system the bass is much weaker and further back in the performance.
However, with the SM in the system, the soundstage is generally further back with a more layered sound, with the SM out of the system the soundstage is more up front.

Then, I compared the 16 bit to the 24 bit. Again, with my my system the 16 bit setting has the bass sounding close to what it sounds like without the SM. That is, clearer, more rounded etc. But, the 24 bit setting has more depth than the 16 bit.

So, to sum up , the SM does improve my system somewhat. But, with a trade off between achieving more depth but with the bass being slighlty buried in the soundstage.

I believe that the standard Squeezebox Touch already has very low jitter and that probably minimizes the improvements that the Synchro Mesh can provide to say a Sonus unit.
Also, my Squeezebox Touch has been modified and I am using an upgraded linear power supply along with a high quality power cord.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 31 Dec 2012, 05:53 pm
You might try different cables Ozzy. i find that they do make a difference.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 31 Dec 2012, 09:13 pm
You might try different cables Ozzy. i find that they do make a difference, even the cable going into the SMR.

You're correct there. The Black Cat Silverstar75 that I finally recieved last week made a nice little change once I connected it BNC (from my PK100) to the BNC connector on my SM & placed my Harmonic Tech. Digital Copper cable to the SM to DAC (BNC to RCA)

With the cable change I noticed the sound I was noticing listening to my dBPoweramp ripped CD files (Using the SM 24 bit setting) was more focused with a more open soundstage & bass response that was more in line with what I was hearing using the 16bit setting. I was not expecting to like the 24bit setting at all as I don't care for any Upsampling DAC that I've had (Musical Fidelity M1 async., PSAudio DL lll) . For myself it appears that whatever the SM bit depth switch is doing it is not affecting the frequency integrity in an manner that affects the timbre of the notes that I can't ignore with "Upsampled" files. That is one of the reasons I opted for the 16bit, 44.1khz output. Should I build up a 24b/96k collection I will buy another SM for dedicated 24/96 playback & switch between the 2 SM as whatever source material I'm playing dictates. I'm in no rush to do this as  the 44.1khz material I'm listening sounds "very, very nice" to me. I don't obsess over listening to the "CD layer of my SACDs anymore. I've never collected music that was'nt well recorded , this trumps format every time for me.

I'll get off my soapbox (for now , anyway!) . I'm thinking of upgrading my SM to DAC cable to a better Harmonic Technology, Acrolink, or Siltech cable. Any yays or nays to any of these ?

Steve
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 31 Dec 2012, 09:32 pm
Wish I knew. I'm currently on the hunt for some good S/PDIF Cables. Perhaps some people with experience can chime in on their favorite cables??
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 31 Dec 2012, 11:55 pm
Oops, I should have mentioned the cable question was directed to anyone having any experience w/ any of these cables. I guess I'll call John over at the CableCo.com. & chat about them as that is where I was browsing at them


Thanks, all the same .
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 1 Jan 2013, 01:21 am
question............my peachtree dac has 2 settings, one for hi-bit or low bit, and one for non-oversampling or oversampling..........if i set the SM on 16 bit, what settings on the peachtree should sound best?     or if i set the SM on 24 bit, what settings on the peachtree should sound best?     i guess the peachtree should be set the same as the SM?  thanks

I would recommend making a matrix and try them all and compare SQ on 2 different tracks.  Never use only one track for this. 

Impossible to predict.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 1 Jan 2013, 01:26 am
With the SM out of the system, the sound has better bass with a solid round quality. With the SM in the system the bass is much weaker and further back in the performance.
However, with the SM in the system, the soundstage is generally further back with a more layered sound, with the SM out of the system the soundstage is more up front.

Then, I compared the 16 bit to the 24 bit. Again, with my my system the 16 bit setting has the bass sounding close to what it sounds like without the SM. That is, clearer, more rounded etc. But, the 24 bit setting has more depth than the 16 bit.

So, to sum up , the SM does improve my system somewhat. But, with a trade off between achieving more depth but with the bass being slighlty buried in the soundstage.

Do these comparisons carefully and be aware that high jitter in the bass frequencies can sound louder and fuller, but is actually going down the garden path.  A good track to play with is the Flight of the Cosmic Hippos.  If this drives you out of the room with bass then you have high jitter in the bass.  If you can listen to it and hear all of the bass overtones clearly, then you are on the right path.

If you have better imaging, this is usually correct and not down the garden path.  I would to see if the bass is limited by something else int he system.

I know because I have also been down this garden path in the past.  I know what to look for now.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 1 Jan 2013, 01:29 am
BTW, had a customer over for the afternoon and I tried the Synchro-Mesh for the first time using a Monolith Li battery supply.  Major difference.  This is quite close to the Off-Ramp 5 now.

Those that use this as their primary source should consider PS upgrades.  I dont offer the Monolith anymore, but I'll be offering Hynes supplies in the near future.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 6 Jan 2013, 08:04 pm
I am ordering for another build of SM and I'm thinking about removing the BNC input jack.

Customers have complained that there is not enough room to fit 2 Toslink connectors.  I could spread the connectors out if the input BNC jack were removed.

Any issues?

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 6 Jan 2013, 08:47 pm
Seems a good idea to me.


Question: Will ordering a Coaxial with factory terminated BNC (source) to RCA (Load) be in any way advantage to just going ahead and having just RCA to RCA Coaxial? (Sound Quality wise I mean). Reason I ask is because in a future I wanna upgrade from the SM to the Off Ramp. And Off Ramp having a BNC out seems like a good idea buying such a cable now. I know the Off-Ramp has a BNC to RCA adapter, but i guess i'm not a fan of adapters.

Thanks

Watthead
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 6 Jan 2013, 11:32 pm
If you order/buy a Black Cat Cable Silverstar75 digital coaxial you are covered with whatever termination you decide to use (BNC or RCA) on either end of the cable. Both ends are terminated with BNC connectors with wide band RCA adaptors already attached .

I believe this is the same cable (2 of them) that Six Moons used for their review of the SM. I've been using 1 BNC>BNC for the front leg (source to SM) of my setup & like it . ( I "lost my mind" & ordered a High Fidelity Cables CT-1 digital interconnect for my SM to DAC link along w/ another regular HFC CT-1 interconnect pair for my DAC to my Burson Soloist. I ordered them on a friend's (whose tastes mirror mine) very strong recommendation.

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 7 Jan 2013, 01:51 am
Seems a good idea to me.


Question: Will ordering a Coaxial with factory terminated BNC (source) to RCA (Load) be in any way advantage to just going ahead and having just RCA to RCA Coaxial? (Sound Quality wise I mean). Reason I ask is because in a future I wanna upgrade from the SM to the Off Ramp. And Off Ramp having a BNC out seems like a good idea buying such a cable now. I know the Off-Ramp has a BNC to RCA adapter, but i guess i'm not a fan of adapters.

Thanks

Watthead

Using a BNC on the output of either SM or OR5 is a good idea.  If you can get a good cable with this termination, I recommend it.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 7 Jan 2013, 04:57 pm
Thanks Guys
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: JBNY on 8 Jan 2013, 09:38 pm
I am ordering for another build of SM and I'm thinking about removing the BNC input jack.

Customers have complained that there is not enough room to fit 2 Toslink connectors.  I could spread the connectors out if the input BNC jack were removed.

Any issues?

Steve N.

I just received mine today and the toslinks are really tight. Not having the BNC on the input would be fine I think.

-Joe
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 9 Jan 2013, 07:24 pm
I just received mine today and the toslinks are really tight. Not having the BNC on the input would be fine I think.

-Joe

I tried my cheap toslink plastic next to my good glass toslink  Fits fine.  The problem with making this change is that I have to take new pro photos of the SM as well as updating the website and user manual.  A lot of work and expense.  I'll pass.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 10 Jan 2013, 10:37 pm
Bought some new digital S/PDIF cables and thought I'd share my thoughts...

I got 2 cables. One Oyaide DR-510 (RCA to RCA) and one Oyaide DB-510 (BNC to BNC).

I've been playing them for about a week now, and I must say, they sound very damn good. They beat out my previous (copper 75 ohm types) by quite a wide margin. What I got was the same excitement that my previous cables had, more detail yet smoother, and I lost a tiny bit of glare I had while using the copper digital cables. Also realized better flow and a quieter background. Very happy with these and the price is absolutely right.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Tyson on 10 Jan 2013, 11:01 pm
Steve, I have an Offramp 3 for my main music system, and I was wondering, if I have limited funds, should I upgrade the 3, or keep the 3 as it is and put a SM reclocker in-line with it instead?  My DAC resamples everything to 24/96, so my thought is that I'd rather have the SM do the resampling vs the DAC doing it.  On the other hand, better USB-SPDIF conversion would also be nice.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 11 Jan 2013, 01:19 am
Steve, I have an Offramp 3 for my main music system, and I was wondering, if I have limited funds, should I upgrade the 3, or keep the 3 as it is and put a SM reclocker in-line with it instead?  My DAC resamples everything to 24/96, so my thought is that I'd rather have the SM do the resampling vs the DAC doing it.  On the other hand, better USB-SPDIF conversion would also be nice.

Tyson - The OR4 and 5 are a big step-up from the OR3.  In order to achieve this level of performance with SM you would have to buy an expensive S/PDIF coax cable 1.5m long and a Paul Hynes SR12-3 supply.  Outlay at least $1500.

The OR5 with S/PDIF Hynes reg is killer good at $1550.00 and you get 176.4 and 196 capability.
Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: kzhtoo on 11 Jan 2013, 08:52 pm
Tyson - The OR4 and 5 are a big step-up from the OR3.  In order to achieve this level of performance with SM you would have to buy an expensive S/PDIF coax cable 1.5m long and a Paul Hynes SR12-3 supply.  Outlay at least $1500.

The OR5 with S/PDIF Hynes reg is killer good at $1550.00 and you get 176.4 and 196 capability.
Steve N.

Hi Steve,
On Paul Hynes website, I cannot find SR12-3 as you mentioned above. Since SM has 12v supply input, is SR1-12 what you're referring to?
http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/page7.html

Also, what can I expect from adding SR1-12 to my SM?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 12 Jan 2013, 05:30 pm
Hi Steve,
On Paul Hynes website, I cannot find SR12-3 as you mentioned above. Since SM has 12v supply input, is SR1-12 what you're referring to?
http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/page7.html

Also, what can I expect from adding SR1-12 to my SM?

Thanks,

He does not have this one listed there.  He will be making these in volume for me to resell in the US soon, as well as a supply for the older Mac Mini.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 12 Jan 2013, 06:01 pm
He does not have this one listed there.  He will be making these in volume for me to resell in the US soon, as well as a supply for the older Mac Mini.

Steve N.

I don't know what the forum rules for Mfg is here, but if allowable could you make mention of this when they are available  ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 12 Jan 2013, 06:03 pm
I don't know what the forum rules for Mfg is here, but if allowable could you make mention of this when they are available  ?

Thanks

He is recovering from a hernia operation.  When he is back on his feet, he will make this happen for me.
  I dont have any ETA.
Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 12 Jan 2013, 07:31 pm
He is recovering from a hernia operation.  When he is back on his feet, he will make this happen for me.
  I dont have any ETA.
Steve N.

What, they can't drag his workbench into his recovery room ? They tell football players to " rub some dirt on it" . (Yes, I've been reading about his operation. I wish him well & hope he gets a chuckle or two from my comments)

Thanks,
Steve A
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 18 Jan 2013, 05:35 pm
can anyone recommend a good coax or optical cable to run from the SM to Dac? I have a Monoprice high quality now, which is probably not high quality at all......need to bring out the best in the SM............

thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 18 Jan 2013, 11:23 pm
can anyone recommend a good coax or optical cable to run from the SM to Dac? I have a Monoprice high quality now, which is probably not high quality at all......need to bring out the best in the SM............

thanks

Whats ur budget?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 19 Jan 2013, 12:04 am
Whats ur budget?
.         250-500 tops
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 19 Jan 2013, 03:42 pm
This are cables I've head nothing but good things:

Wireworld Silver Starlight 7 (series 7 just came out replacing the series 6, only difference is the insulation material). I own the normal Starlight 6, which cost like 100 dollars for 1.5 meters,and I love it, the thing is a firecracker. Its great. People that have upgraded to the Silver Starlight say it was well worth it.

Theese are another i've heard good things about. The materials they are made of are very good. And the price are good cause they seem to sell direct. The Reference Silver is made of monocrystal 99.9999% silver square wire and goes for US$218.00 for 1.5 meters So it seems promising.  http://www.cabledyne.com/rca-digital-cable.html

Another one that comes to mind is the Black Cat Silverstar. Poeple give it good reviews.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 19 Jan 2013, 03:52 pm
This are cables I've head nothing but good things:

Wireworld Silver Starlight 7 (series 7 just came out replacing the series 6, only difference is the insulation material). I own the normal Starlight 6, which cost like 100 dollars for 1.5 meters,and I love it, the thing is a firecracker. Its great. People that have upgraded to the Silver Starlight say it was well worth it.

Theese are another i've heard good things about. The materials they are made of are very good. And the price are good cause they seem to sell direct. The Reference Silver is made of monocrystal 99.9999% silver square wire and goes for US$218.00 for 1.5 meters So it seems promising.  http://www.cabledyne.com/rca-digital-cable.html

Another one that comes to mind is the Black Cat Silverstar. Poeple give it good reviews.

Hope this helps.
excellent, thank you......I will check into them....can you recommend any glass toslinks?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 19 Jan 2013, 04:02 pm
Using a BNC on the output of either SM or OR5 is a good idea.  If you can get a good cable with this termination, I recommend it.

Steve N.
. Steve, for the SM, would it be better to use the bnc connection with a bnc to RCA adaptor or the coax connection?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 19 Jan 2013, 05:19 pm
excellent, thank you......I will check into them....can you recommend any glass toslinks?

My only experience with glass is the Wireworld Supernova 6, which I own. It sounds head and shoulders better than the belkin I used to have. It has clear, detailed, holografic sound. However, compared to the Starlight coaxial, I'd say that the Starlight is a better buy in every sense. To start off, it's cheaper. Also, the soundstage in the Starlight is noticeably bigger, and it has better attack. When the Starlight was new (I purchased the Supernova 6 first) I couldn't tell much difference, I was very happy with both (still am). But now that the Starlight is broken in, the difference is noticeable. In my opinion the Starlight is superior in every way (except looks heh). So I can imagine that the Silver Starlight, or Gold Starlight would ecplise in comparison.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 19 Jan 2013, 06:43 pm
. Steve, for the SM, would it be better to use the bnc connection with a bnc to RCA adaptor or the coax connection?

Definitely the BNC connection, no adapters.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 19 Jan 2013, 06:49 pm
Definitely the BNC connection, no adapters.

Steve N.
ok thanks, but if adaptor is no good I'll have to stick with coax because my dac won't take bnc
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 21 Jan 2013, 04:05 am
I just realized when I use my computer digital output and connect directly via cable (toshlink)  into the Synchro Mesh, it sounds better then when I transmit the music wirelessly to my Apple TV, and then having the Apple TV send the music to the Mesh via toshlink cable. Any reason why? Since the Mesh resamples I thought it didn't matter where the signal came from. But to me (and my wife) it sounds better the computer connected direct to the SM vs using apple tv's wireless airplay. Am i going crazy? Do I need a vacation?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: path73 on 30 Jan 2013, 10:37 am
After a few months listening and tesing with the SM, I must say this is an increadible piece of equipment and would like to give here some (positive) feedback.

Initially bought to enhance the sound of my Swisscom TV receiver box and for movie playback, I now feel I can use it as a main source for my pure audio listening sessions as well!

In my setup, I get a virtually identical sound quality as with my Win7 Jplay-v5 driven (the best one I found on Windows with ASIO driver now supporting song-seek and volume control, initially using the now relatively less convincing foobar0.8.3 on XP in unmapped mode) and Paul Hynes SR3-12 powered USB Off-Ramp (older but still gorgeous version Turbo 2 with SuperClock 4 upgrade) feeding my Empirical Audio modded Northstar Design m192 DAC through a Revelation Audio I2S silver cable.

It is noteworthy to mention that in order to get there I had to power the SM (standard 96kHz version with 24bit setting) with a Paul Hynes SR3-12 power supply and use a high performance SPDIF coax cable (found a fantastic 1.5m silver reference cable BNC-RCA from less-known CableDyne company at a very humble price tag). Both of these upgrades are absolutely necessary in my experience to really let the music shine through the SM (and totally forget about any technical audio aspects). Leave one of these two out and I would just go back to my OR-2 setup for ultimate enjoyment.

The rest of my audio chain is Empirical Audio Holophonic analog RCA cables (no longer in production) to a Vecteur Club Twelve MOS-FET amp (upgraded audio fuse and home-made solid wire power cord) and EA Clarity7 speaker cables (no longer in production) to a pair of B&W 3-way floorstanders.

From a usability point of view, the fact that I can simply connect my small fanless nettop PC running XBMC (latest v.12 frodo for ultimate functionality and content including SpotiMC add-on for Spotify streaming) through a simple HDMI cable, as well as my TV set-top box and other multimedia devices using HDMI cables to my Philips LED-LCD-TV, select the input on my TV and simply use an optical-SPDIF cable from TV to SM without any sound degradation compared to a straight optical out from my i7-MacBook Pro running Win7 Foobar to SM, this is an absolute killer!!

Thank you so much Steve for making this (as we would say here) "tour de force" possible!

Cheers, /patrick
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 31 Jan 2013, 07:39 pm
I just realized when I use my computer digital output and connect directly via cable (toshlink)  into the Synchro Mesh, it sounds better then when I transmit the music wirelessly to my Apple TV, and then having the Apple TV send the music to the Mesh via toshlink cable. Any reason why? Since the Mesh resamples I thought it didn't matter where the signal came from. But to me (and my wife) it sounds better the computer connected direct to the SM vs using apple tv's wireless airplay. Am i going crazy? Do I need a vacation?

Its Apples fault here I believe.  Unlike most WiFi applications like Sonos and Squeezebox, Apple converts all files to ALAC before transmitting.  It may even resample to 48.  Also, they use the audio stack whereas Sonos or SB does not.  I think the data must be modified.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 1 Feb 2013, 02:57 am
Its Apples fault here I believe.  Unlike most WiFi applications like Sonos and Squeezebox, Apple converts all files to ALAC before transmitting.  It may even resample to 48.  Also, they use the audio stack whereas Sonos or SB does not.  I think the data must be modified.

Steve N.

Good to know I'm not going crazy. I went ahead and bought a 5 meter long toslink mini to toslink, and bypassed my apple tv. So no wireless convenience, but it sounds better.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Stephen on 1 Feb 2013, 09:29 pm
If you are interested in streaming from iTunes and assuming you have an iPad, check out this article:

http://www.audiostream.com/content/ipad-wireless-2496-music-streamer-2900

It shows how to wirelessly stream through your iPad at 24 bit/96 kHz - and inexpensively too!

Stephen
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: RDaneel on 5 Feb 2013, 08:32 pm
Steve,

Can you say what the draw is for the SM?  I see Pangea offers a 12V PSU with 500ma output.  Stereophile liked the unit, and the price is far far lower than a Hynes.  Would 500ma run the SM adequately?

Thanks in advance,
RDaneel
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 6 Feb 2013, 01:05 am
Steve,

Can you say what the draw is for the SM?  I see Pangea offers a 12V PSU with 500ma output.  Stereophile liked the unit, and the price is far far lower than a Hynes.  Would 500ma run the SM adequately?

Thanks in advance,
RDaneel

Current draw is about 200ma, but the di/dt is much larger.  You need a really fast regulating supply for this or its a waste of money.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 20 Feb 2013, 02:50 am
Just wanted to report,

I've been using the Cabledyne Silver Reference Digital Coaxial and have gotten very good results connected from the Synhro-Mesh to my Dac. Very clear sound, big soundstage, not bright or edgy, but good presence and pace. Bass is very good good to, good extension without ever contributing to bloat. Very impressed with the cable.

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: path73 on 20 Feb 2013, 07:14 pm
Watthead - you give a pretty good description of what I hear, too, from the Cabledyne silver ref digital coax cable connecting SM to DAC in my setup.
How would you compare it to the Wireworld starlight 6 coaxial rca that you mentioned in a previous post?
/path
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 21 Feb 2013, 07:16 pm
Watthead - you give a pretty good description of what I hear, too, from the Cabledyne silver ref digital coax cable connecting SM to DAC in my setup.
How would you compare it to the Wireworld starlight 6 coaxial rca that you mentioned in a previous post?
/path

I don't believe it's a fair comparison, due to the price gap between both. At around 75/meter I don't believe there is a better performer than the Starlight 6. Having said that, the Cabledyne beats it in every department. It has more reach, presence, texture and better bass. This is not your usual silver cable, when one associates with being forward or edgy. It's none of that. It has a very welcome clarity and fullness to the way it goes about doing it's business, and as I said before presents it all in a big soundstage. It doesn't color up any particular frequency, so it does well by presenting everything in a balanced fashion. As i said, i'm very impressed by the cable.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Karl91 on 21 Feb 2013, 10:32 pm
Hey Watthead,

I actually just bought the silver starlight 6 based on your positive reviews of the starlight. Without having heard the silver starlight, do you think it's comparable to the Cabledyne? The prices are almost the same.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 23 Feb 2013, 03:53 pm
One day last week I took my SM out of the playback chain, for a day & a half, to see how things would sound. It made a pretty nice improvement when I was using it between my Auraliti & Metrum Octave DAC. The soundstage really "opens up" with the 24bit switch engaged. I initially thought that I was hearing a bit less low frequency response & a slightly less focused imaging at 24bit, but it turned out there were no losses in those areas. (I know, this is old news I've already reported... I getting to it..).

Some time in early Jan. I switched my DAC to the Metrum Hex, but I kept the SM inline. Curiosity got the better of me & I decided to see how the Hex would fare w/o the SM in front of it. The Hex sounded pretty good as it's portrayal of "micro detail" is off the charts, but I finally realized the elements of Orchestral width & height had moved back into the shadows a bit. After putting the SM back in place all that nice staging information came back.

There is no going back to listening to music at a 16bit depth for me (unless it's to listen to CD in my car). At various times my own attempts to increase the bit depth of rips ,through software, were less than satisfying. Whatever chip is being used in the SM for the bit depth change is worth it's weight in platinum as far as I'm concerned. Things would be so much easier if they had'nt settled on 16bit/44.1khz as the digital standard(& of the two ,the bit depth was less sufficient)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 23 Feb 2013, 07:52 pm
Hey Watthead,

I actually just bought the silver starlight 6 based on your positive reviews of the starlight. Without having heard the silver starlight, do you think it's comparable to the Cabledyne? The prices are almost the same.

Karl91,

I haven't had the pleasure of auditioning the Silver Starlight so i'm in no position to give you any pointers. However, I've heard nothing but good things about the cable from solid sources, so I suspect you're in for a treat. Care to share your experience?

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Karl91 on 24 Feb 2013, 02:08 am
Will do when it comes. Although I'm several weeks away from upgrading my system significantly (new amp and speaker wire are on their way). And the silver starlight will be replacing a very inexpensive cable. Returning to the thread topic, I'm excited to add the synchro mesh soon as well.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: kzhtoo on 25 Feb 2013, 10:54 pm
After a few months listening and tesing with the SM, I must say this is an increadible piece of equipment and would like to give here some (positive) feedback.

Initially bought to enhance the sound of my Swisscom TV receiver box and for movie playback, I now feel I can use it as a main source for my pure audio listening sessions as well!

In my setup, I get a virtually identical sound quality as with my Win7 Jplay-v5 driven (the best one I found on Windows with ASIO driver now supporting song-seek and volume control, initially using the now relatively less convincing foobar0.8.3 on XP in unmapped mode) and Paul Hynes SR3-12 powered USB Off-Ramp (older but still gorgeous version Turbo 2 with SuperClock 4 upgrade) feeding my Empirical Audio modded Northstar Design m192 DAC through a Revelation Audio I2S silver cable.

It is noteworthy to mention that in order to get there I had to power the SM (standard 96kHz version with 24bit setting) with a Paul Hynes SR3-12 power supply and use a high performance SPDIF coax cable (found a fantastic 1.5m silver reference cable BNC-RCA from less-known CableDyne company at a very humble price tag). Both of these upgrades are absolutely necessary in my experience to really let the music shine through the SM (and totally forget about any technical audio aspects). Leave one of these two out and I would just go back to my OR-2 setup for ultimate enjoyment.

The rest of my audio chain is Empirical Audio Holophonic analog RCA cables (no longer in production) to a Vecteur Club Twelve MOS-FET amp (upgraded audio fuse and home-made solid wire power cord) and EA Clarity7 speaker cables (no longer in production) to a pair of B&W 3-way floorstanders.

From a usability point of view, the fact that I can simply connect my small fanless nettop PC running XBMC (latest v.12 frodo for ultimate functionality and content including SpotiMC add-on for Spotify streaming) through a simple HDMI cable, as well as my TV set-top box and other multimedia devices using HDMI cables to my Philips LED-LCD-TV, select the input on my TV and simply use an optical-SPDIF cable from TV to SM without any sound degradation compared to a straight optical out from my i7-MacBook Pro running Win7 Foobar to SM, this is an absolute killer!!

Thank you so much Steve for making this (as we would say here) "tour de force" possible!

Cheers, /patrick

Hi Patrick,
Would you mind sharing where I can purchase Paul Hynes SR3-12 for my Synchro-mesh? I looked it up on Paul's site and didn't see SR3-12.

Best,
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 25 Feb 2013, 11:43 pm
Just contact Paul through the website... He is planning updates to the site from what I have read..

He may be slow to answer, but he likely will. I ordered a SR3-12 in January, but have not heard from him since, and he has not answered any emails since then... I'm sure he is very busy though... I just keep hoping to find it on my porch one of these days.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: path73 on 25 Feb 2013, 11:55 pm
Hi Patrick,
Would you mind sharing where I can purchase Paul Hynes SR3-12 for my Synchro-mesh? I looked it up on Paul's site and didn't see SR3-12.

Best,

kzhtoo,
I read that Steve is going to stock and offer them for sales in the US, which is good news!
I bought a European version a few years ago directly from Paul Hynes.
Obviously, his website is a bit outdated.
I ordered a new DC umbilical for my SM before his surgical operation and am now waiting until he gets a chance to processes all the pending orders (including mine), procedure which I fully agreed with before ordering. I hope he will recover quickly. He is such a friendly and competent guy.
Cheers,
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 26 Feb 2013, 06:03 am
Just contact Paul through the website... He is planning updates to the site from what I have read..

He may be slow to answer, but he likely will. I ordered a SR3-12 in January, but have not heard from him since, and he has not answered any emails since then... I'm sure he is very busy though... I just keep hoping to find it on my porch one of these days.

Paul,

If you don't mind my asking , what was the cost of the SR3-12 ? (USD if possible; if not any currency price will do) thanks. (That is, of course, if Paul has'nt requested that you not pass on this information at this time)

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 26 Feb 2013, 06:46 am
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80647.msg1192009#msg1192009 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80647.msg1192009#msg1192009)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 26 Feb 2013, 08:37 pm
I have the SR3-12 prototype here and I have been testing it.  I have made some changes to it to optimize for driving SM and OR5 including a different umbilical.  It is truly magical now.  Yet another performance milestone just when I thought it could not get much better.

I am in talks with Paul Hynes about the OEM arrangement and the mods I want.  I may end-up purchasing the stuffed board and do the final assembly here and put it in an Empirical Audio chassis.  I prefer to have it match my cabinetry if that works for Paul.  If not, I still would like the mods in it, a special version for EA.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: liddown on 26 Feb 2013, 08:46 pm
Steve,

Would you consider a mod program for existing SR3-12's?

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 27 Feb 2013, 01:59 am
Steve,

Would you consider a mod program for existing SR3-12's?

Possible if I can get some help.  My original cable builder moved back to town and he wants to help me.  First order of business is to get the Final Drive going.  He will probably only be available to help me one day a week.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: serengetiplains on 27 Feb 2013, 02:26 am
Awesome, Steve.  My experience likewise here.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: path73 on 27 Feb 2013, 08:40 pm
I have the SR3-12 prototype here and I have been testing it.  I have made some changes to it to optimize for driving SM and OR5 including a different umbilical.  It is truly magical now.  Yet another performance milestone just when I thought it could not get much better.

I am in talks with Paul Hynes about the OEM arrangement and the mods I want.  I may end-up purchasing the stuffed board and do the final assembly here and put it in an Empirical Audio chassis.  I prefer to have it match my cabinetry if that works for Paul.  If not, I still would like the mods in it, a special version for EA.

Steve N.

Steve,
Now you really get me interested... I believe the stock SR3 is already pure magic!
Did you make it respond even faster or lower the noise floor further?
How big would you rate the step between your modded SR3 and the stock SR3, compared to the step between the stock SR3 and your switching supply?
/patrick
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 28 Feb 2013, 01:20 am
Steve,
Now you really get me interested... I believe the stock SR3 is already pure magic!
Did you make it respond even faster or lower the noise floor further?
How big would you rate the step between your modded SR3 and the stock SR3, compared to the step between the stock SR3 and your switching supply?
/patrick

I found the stock SR3 to be only marginally better than the wall-wart.  The modded one is significantly better and beats my Monolith and Substation as well.

I will probably not be modding existing Hynes supplies.  My helper is not available enough and I dont have time for mods anymore.  I will be developing a new EA supply using a new Hynes module.  Due to the changes and different chassis and front panels, it will likely be more expensive than the Hynes version.  It will be available only as an option for OR5 and SM or if an existing customer wants to upgrade.  I will not be selling supplies only on the website.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 3 Mar 2013, 06:59 pm
Here is an interesting study.  I finally replaced my kludge for my GHz scope with a true 75 ohm termination plug-in, so I'm able to get really accurate picture of the signal from S/PDIF or I2S from SM or OR5.  This plug-in was really expensive, almost as much as a new smaller scope.

What I discovered is that putting a "stub" on the SM output helps reduce jitter.  Depending on the stub, jitter can drop from 500psec to 150psec.  Big change, and I can hear it in the focus when playing music.  A typical stub would be a 75 ohm BNC to RCA adapter on the BNC output plug when using the RCA output plug with a cable.  Adding another RCA connector to the BNC adapter with no cable or a really short cable like 2" can even improve things.

How this works with your system depends on your cable and DAC, but it is worth experimenting with if you are a tweaker.

I have these BNC to RCA adapters, so I can sell them for $10 each.  Just PayPal me at nugent@empiricalaudio.com if you want to try it.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 3 Mar 2013, 07:31 pm
That is interesting...

Are you saying put the adapter on the BNC output of the SM, leave it float with no cable, then put the digital cable on the RCA output of the SM? Or put the cable on the adapter?

Would a RCA to BNC adapter on the RCA output of the SM do the same thing? So I could still use the BNC output to the DAC?

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: andrewd01 on 3 Mar 2013, 07:34 pm
I found the stock SR3 to be only marginally better than the wall-wart.  The modded one is significantly better and beats my Monolith and Substation as well.

I will probably not be modding existing Hynes supplies.  My helper is not available enough and I dont have time for mods anymore.  I will be developing a new EA supply using a new Hynes module.  Due to the changes and different chassis and front panels, it will likely be more expensive than the Hynes version.  It will be available only as an option for OR5 and SM or if an existing customer wants to upgrade.  I will not be selling supplies only on the website.

Steve N.

Great news!  I have been interested in getting the best possible power supply for my OR4.
I will order one from you as soon as they are ready.

On a slightly diffent topic, Paul offers a multi-rail power supply that can drive a Mac Mini (I have 2011 model modded for external 12V DC power supply) plus an Offramp, plus a SM etc.  It would be awesome to have an EA modded version of this!   
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 3 Mar 2013, 07:38 pm
That is interesting...

Would a RCA to BNC adapter on the RCA output of the SM do the same thing?

Also, are you saying put the adapter on the BNC output of the SM, then put the digital cable on the RCA output of the SM? Or put the cable on the adapter?

Ive tried it both ways, so yes.  Cable and stub are separate.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 3 Mar 2013, 07:39 pm
Great news!  I have been interested in getting the best possible power supply for my OR4.
I will order one from you as soon as they are ready.

On a slightly diffent topic, Paul offers a multi-rail power supply that can drive a Mac Mini (I have 2011 model modded for external 12V DC power supply) plus an Offramp, plus a SM etc.  It would be awesome to have an EA modded version of this!

Actually, I plan to offer a Mini supply also,  I think it is better to keep these separate.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 3 Mar 2013, 07:42 pm
Steve, I revised my post a little, but I believe I have the answer... Thanks!
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: andrewd01 on 3 Mar 2013, 09:24 pm
Actually, I plan to offer a Mini supply also,  I think it is better to keep these separate.

Great! I understand that the early mac mini versions (which already had external DC power supply) need 18V, but my modded 2011 needs 12V.  Will you make versions for both voltages? 



Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: FatherVic on 3 Mar 2013, 10:54 pm
I've recently came across this device which I found interesting but I'm starting to tear my hair out at my upgrade options...
I've got a little Sonos which I love but I would like to achieve a higher quality sound.  My options are either to go down a DAC route or just replace the Sonos.
With a gadget like this on board, how good a transport does the Sonos become?
People's experiences appear to be good but comparisons are limited and some more feedback would be appreciated.

What I discovered is that putting a "stub" on the SM output helps reduce jitter.  Depending on the stub, jitter can drop from 500psec to 150psec.

Can I ask what was being played to generate that level of jitter? I'm assuming that was more of a 'test level' to experiment with than what the SM is meant to be putting out?

Also, if I were to order one to the UK, can somebody tell me if I'd be hit with any import duties?

Cheers
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 4 Mar 2013, 01:00 am
I've recently came across this device which I found interesting but I'm starting to tear my hair out at my upgrade options...
I've got a little Sonos which I love but I would like to achieve a higher quality sound.  My options are either to go down a DAC route or just replace the Sonos.
With a gadget like this on board, how good a transport does the Sonos become?
People's experiences appear to be good but comparisons are limited and some more feedback would be appreciated.

See the reviews here:

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/news-and-reviews/synchro-mesh

Quote
Can I ask what was being played to generate that level of jitter? I'm assuming that was more of a 'test level' to experiment with than what the SM is meant to be putting out?

I was actually playing some Bonnie Raitt live.  The difference was focused vocalist versus 3-D vocalist popping out of the background.

Quote
Also, if I were to order one to the UK, can somebody tell me if I'd be hit with any import duties?

I declare $599 on it.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 4 Mar 2013, 01:11 am
I made some jitter spread measurements.  These are total jitter histograms.

With older wall-wart:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76353)

With latest wall-wart:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76354)


with Hynes supply:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76355)

Seems to get narrower with each one, validating the listening experience.  The bulk of the jitter is in the 150-200 psec range.  The tails show it as high as 600psec, but very few events occur like this.  This is not average or RMS jitter.  This is peak jitter.

The nominal measurement is for 24/96 timing, 81.38 nsec.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 4 Mar 2013, 04:56 pm
Steve,
Four tweak, are you saying to use a 75 ohm shorting plug?
I have them in BNC.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 4 Mar 2013, 04:57 pm
Steve,
For your  tweak, are you saying to use a 75 ohm shorting plug?
I have them in BNC.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: JBNY on 4 Mar 2013, 05:00 pm
So how does your method of measuring jitter differ from say Stereophile. I ask because when you throw out your jitter numbers they are much higher than when I have seen published for the digital output of other device, for example the sonos was measured having jitter of 388 picoseconds peak–peak which they consider low.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sonos-zp80-zp100-wifi-music-system-measurements
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 4 Mar 2013, 06:33 pm
Steve,
Four tweak, are you saying to use a 75 ohm shorting plug?
I have them in BNC.

No, just an adapter plug, something to give length to the connector.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 4 Mar 2013, 06:40 pm
So how does your method of measuring jitter differ from say Stereophile. I ask because when you throw out your jitter numbers they are much higher than when I have seen published for the digital output of other device, for example the sonos was measured having jitter of 388 picoseconds peak–peak which they consider low.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sonos-zp80-zp100-wifi-music-system-measurements

I'll tell you what.  I'll do the exact same jitter measurement of the Sonos ZP-90 and post that plot.  I will have to redo the SM with a 44.1 unit since Sonos can only do 44.1.

The SM makes a huge difference with the Sonos.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 5 Mar 2013, 12:10 am
Steve,
Ok, using just the BNC / RCA adapter, it does seem like the center is more defined or focused.
I don't understand why this would make a difference? Can you explain?
I was thinking of plugging another adapter into the first one but, I will wait for your reply.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 5 Mar 2013, 01:46 am
Steve,
Ok, using just the BNC / RCA adapter, it does seem like the center is more defined or focused.
I don't understand why this would make a difference? Can you explain?
I was thinking of plugging another adapter into the first one but, I will wait for your reply.

Its working then.  The reason that some cables benefit from this is the edge rates on the SM are very fast and reflections at the connector can cause some squirelly signal integrity resulting in more jitter.  The stub reduces this reflection.

I would try another adapter in series to see if it is even better.

BTW, I have developed an internal mod that negates the need for the stub, so newer versions of SM will probably not benefit from the stub.  This will make the SM work better with a wider selection of cables and lengths.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 5 Mar 2013, 03:01 am
Have you tried one on the input side?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: claytontstanley on 5 Mar 2013, 04:19 am
Steve,

Really appreciating the jitter plots with full histograms.

-Clayton
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 5 Mar 2013, 07:17 pm
Have you tried one on the input side?

No, but it will not make any difference.  No change on the input will make any difference.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: JBNY on 5 Mar 2013, 09:40 pm
No, just an adapter plug, something to give length to the connector.

This only applies if you are using the RCA output. If I am using the BNC output already I should be doing nothing on the RCA jack, correct?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 6 Mar 2013, 02:05 am
This only applies if you are using the RCA output. If I am using the BNC output already I should be doing nothing on the RCA jack, correct?

Actually, the stub is not as effective, but still makes a difference.  Use a RCA to BNC adapter in the RCA output.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 6 Mar 2013, 03:40 am
So, if you use the RCA output for the cable, and put the snub on the BNC output, do you get better results as far as jitter, vs. the oposite?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 6 Mar 2013, 04:26 am
So, if you use the RCA output for the cable, and put the snub on the BNC output, do you get better results as far as jitter, vs. the oposite?


I think so, but you need to try it with your own system.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: rdsu on 6 Mar 2013, 10:41 am
Steve,

Do you think that using a RF Attenuator (https://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/rf-attenuators), like the one used in MK3 JKSPDIF (https://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home-1/mk3-hiface), can also improve like the adapter that you suggested?

Regards
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 6 Mar 2013, 07:44 pm
Steve,

Do you think that using a RF Attenuator (https://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/rf-attenuators), like the one used in MK3 JKSPDIF (https://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home-1/mk3-hiface), can also improve like the adapter that you suggested?

Regards

Good possibility.  I would not use the attenuator in the BNC position and the cable in the other position.  I would just use the attenuator on the cable.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: rdsu on 6 Mar 2013, 09:57 pm
Good possibility.  I would not use the attenuator in the BNC position and the cable in the other position.  I would just use the attenuator on the cable.
I very cheap tweak to try... ;)

SM(BNC output) > RF Attenuator 75Ohm 15db > S/PDIF coax cable 1,5m > RCA input(DAC)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: PLMONROE on 7 Mar 2013, 04:12 am
STEVE! What sort of magic did you put in this box? I find my Qsonix is now absolutely enchanted!

Paul
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 7 Mar 2013, 05:01 am
STEVE! What sort of magic did you put in this box? I find my Qsonix is now absolutely enchanted!

Paul

Wonderful. Make sure to try the BC adapter tweak.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Vic on 7 Mar 2013, 11:49 am
Is a BNC to RCA cable something to stay away from?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 7 Mar 2013, 11:43 pm
I actually think a BNC adapter to a 75 ohm coaxial works even better than the BNC to RCA adapater.
ozzy
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 7 Mar 2013, 11:48 pm
I actually think a BNC adapter to a 75 ohm coaxial works even better than the BNC to RCA adapater.
ozzy

You mean BNC male to BNC female?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 8 Mar 2013, 12:44 pm
It is a Male BNC and then on the other side there is a theaded end that can accept a cable type RG6 fitting.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 10 Mar 2013, 07:06 pm
Hey Steve, would you be open to measuring a simple RCA or BNC connector with something around a 75 ohm resistor soldered in it?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 10 Mar 2013, 07:17 pm
Hey Steve, would you be open to measuring a simple RCA or BNC connector with something around a 75 ohm resistor soldered in it?

I could.  I would expect this to really screw-up the impedance though.  I have some 50 ohm terminators that I can try.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 10 Mar 2013, 11:13 pm
Perfect! Thanks Steve
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: rdsu on 13 Mar 2013, 10:20 am
Good possibility.  I would not use the attenuator in the BNC position and the cable in the other position.  I would just use the attenuator on the cable.

Steve N.
More info about this: Reflections and attenuators (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=90454.0)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Fozzy on 17 Mar 2013, 09:13 pm
Re upgrading power supplys for SM:

I bought a Teddy 12/2 PSU from Teddy Pardo in Israel (I also have his DAC) at Christmas.  Cost is around $359 + VAT + shipping. 

http://teddypardo.com/Products/Power%20Supplies/Teddy12.html

The difference from the Wall Wart supply was not at all subtle and the build quality and finish are excellent.

There is some info on the internals at Teddy's website here:

http://teddypardo.com/Products/Power%20Supplies/PSU-Detailed.html

And some more detail about his TeddyReg - the regulator at the heart of his PSUs here:

http://teddypardo.com/Resources/TeddyReg.html

He usually has stock and ships quickly - I am in the UK and it takes < 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: sugarman88 on 18 Mar 2013, 04:33 am
I have ordered a Paul Hynes PSU for my SM in last June, but still not ready to ship after 9 months....... :evil:
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: JBNY on 18 Mar 2013, 04:19 pm
Re upgrading power supplys for SM:

I bought a Teddy 12/2 PSU from Teddy Pardo in Israel (I also have his DAC) at Christmas.  Cost is around $359 + VAT + shipping. 

Did you have to have him change out the standard connector, or was the 5.5mm external 2.5mm internal fine?

Thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 18 Mar 2013, 08:33 pm
I have ordered a Paul Hynes PSU for my SM in last June, but still not ready to ship after 9 months....... :evil:

That is not very comforting at all.... I ordered mine early January, with a 60 day wait time, and I cannot even get a response telling me that my money was confirmed...... I've asked with very understanding and very kind emails, and nothing.. I guess I'll just keep waiting like you are.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Fozzy on 18 Mar 2013, 10:25 pm
Hi All

The Teddy PSU ships with a high quality DC lead fitted with a 2.5mm jack that works fine with Steve's SM.

Teddy is great to deal with and always happy to respond to questions.  His DAC got some great reviews in the UK HiFi press - praised for its natural and fatigue-free listening experience.

Fozzy
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Fozzy on 19 Mar 2013, 04:33 pm
Steve - would this Canare BNC Resistive Terminator be worth trying to cap the unused BNC output on the SM?

http://www.canford.co.uk/ProductResources/ig/4092.pdf

Fozzy
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 19 Mar 2013, 06:28 pm
Steve - would this Canare BNC Resistive Terminator be worth trying to cap the unused BNC output on the SM?

http://www.canford.co.uk/ProductResources/ig/4092.pdf

Fozzy

This will have an entirely different effect from the stub of an adapter plug.  I would not do this.  IT creates a line that is terminated with 37.5 ohms.  Too low.
 
Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 21 Mar 2013, 06:31 pm
Does anyone use the Enhance Audio Output plug-in for SBT? I was wondering how this plug-in would sound without using the SM compared to using the SBT with a SM....or maybe even using the plug-in with the SM together? thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: wikeeboy on 29 Mar 2013, 12:10 pm
Has anyone tried a W4S modded Sonos vs a stock Sonos through the SM?

I have a SM and am about to buy a Sonos to feed it. I know of a 2nd hand w4s modded Sonos for sale that I can buy below the cost of a new non modded Sonos so am likely to buy the w4s one..

As long as the SQ of the w4s Sonos is not worse through the SM than a stock Sonos I will save money and buy the modded unit!

I'd greatly appreciate any advice and opinions.

Thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 29 Mar 2013, 01:36 pm
The SMR improved everything I plugged into it, even a nice transport. Besides that, Steve gives you a trial period, so to speak. Get to know your Sonus, then try out the SMR. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: wikeeboy on 29 Mar 2013, 08:13 pm
Thanks for the reply Paul!

I already have the Synchro Mesh. Just not sure whether is hould buy a new Sonos Connect or the modded W4S Sonos ZP90 for the same money. The W4S is double the price yet i can buy 2nd hand for the same as a new non modded connect. Makes sense to go the W4S but not if the sound with the SM will be worse!

Thanks :)

Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 7 Apr 2013, 05:55 pm
I just sold my Synchro Mesh. Everything sounds better without it.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 8 Apr 2013, 12:37 am
I just sold my Synchro Mesh. Everything sounds better without it.

Some of these earlier units degrade over time because the drivers get faster and create more transmission-line problems with the original output transformers.  Changing the transformer to the OT mod fixes this and it's usually even better.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 8 Apr 2013, 04:13 am
You really should have emailed Steve. He stands in front of and behind this product. When working correctly, it should not degrade any transport you plug into it.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: livengood1 on 8 Apr 2013, 08:23 pm
Two points I'd like to make in reply to Ozzie's post. First, I think it was unethical for him to resell the SM, knowing that it would deteriorate the SQ of the purchaser's system. It should have been returned to Empirical and replaced under warranty. The second point is that it is scary that these units would deteriorate so quickly. I took my SM out and checked, and it still sounds way better when it's in there, but I think it should stay that way for a long time. Steve's response was "Some of these earlier units degrade over time because the drivers get faster and create more transmission-line problems with the original output transformers.  Changing the transformer to the OT mod fixes this and it's usually even better." If that is the case, and all of our SMs will deteriorate that quickly, they should be recalled and fixed, free of charge. Just saying.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 9 Apr 2013, 12:00 am
Two points I'd like to make in reply to Ozzie's post. First, I think it was unethical for him to resell the SM, knowing that it would deteriorate the SQ of the purchaser's system. It should have been returned to Empirical and replaced under warranty. The second point is that it is scary that these units would deteriorate so quickly. I took my SM out and checked, and it still sounds way better when it's in there, but I think it should stay that way for a long time. Steve's response was "Some of these earlier units degrade over time because the drivers get faster and create more transmission-line problems with the original output transformers.  Changing the transformer to the OT mod fixes this and it's usually even better." If that is the case, and all of our SMs will deteriorate that quickly, they should be recalled and fixed, free of charge. Just saying.


Here is the deal: I discovered that these transformers vary somewhat, so some of them work really well for the life of the product.  Other transformers cause higher jitter than I would like to see either initially or after break-in.  Even the ones with higher jitter are still in the hundreds of picoseconds, so this is not as high as most transports and its certainly not a functional issue. 

I just want to deliver the best performance possible with my products and it's unpleasant when some transformers hold it back.  This is a lot like manufacturing a car with certain spark plugs in it and then discovering that the performance is better and more uniform and predictable with another spark plug.  Automakers don't recall the car for this.  They usually don't even change to the new spark plug. If you are really really lucky, they will tell you about the better spark plug so you can change it yourself.
 
Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: steve in jersey on 10 Apr 2013, 03:44 pm
Steve,

You may be too quick in "admitting" to there may have actually been anything at fault w/ the circuit of that particular SMR as you did'nt have the opportunity to physically examine it yourself.

As mentioned much earlier in the thread many people are'nt sensitive to the effects of "jitter". I would go as far to say some people mistakenly label some of these artifacts as "ambient detail". If you go back several pgs. back & read some of the postings I'm sure you'll pick-up on this.

I normally "cringe" a bit when people start talking about "HF extension" . The other term that will send me into fit of laughter is "mushy digital treble". "MDT" makes sense if you have'nt been protecting your hearing, in every situation,always, everyday, for your entire life, but who does that ? Oh yea, me !

"Mushy Digital Treble"... I'm not even sure if that's possible to produce. No I take that back a "Producer" can accomplish this (but they're to busy making "make your ears bleed digital treble" recordings)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: ozzy on 10 Apr 2013, 11:52 pm
I sold the SM because from the start I didn't think it was improving my sound quality. You can reread my earlier posts. But, I kept it past the return period and I didn't ask for a refund. There was nothing wrong with the unit. Now, I am using a modified Squeezebox Touch along with a Linear Power supply. My guess is that the SM works best with lesser higher jitter sources.

I just left the SM in my system until one day I took it out. From what I could tell the SM provided a defined image but at the expense of air, soundstage and bass quality.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: livengood1 on 11 Apr 2013, 04:38 pm
In contrast to Ozzie's experience, when I added a Synchro-mesh to my stereo I was struck immediately by a big positive change, and since then my enthusiasm for this product has remained strong. The main improvement for me is that the SM creates a much more realistic picture of the size and "3-Dness" of the sound. It has become almost like surround sound, with heightened spatial effects. Instruments in the background now sound not just quieter, but like they are way behind other instruments with real space separating them. The orchestra sounds big, like an orchestra. In smaller ensembles, especially jazz bands, the texture of the individual instruments stands out and the music just sounds almost like a real live concert in a real venue. In pop and rock music, the subtle studio effects are there in a way that is sometimes uncanny. I have been listening to more music, for more hours a day, every day, than I have since I was very young. And I am getting thrilled by music every day, which is the main reason for having a stereo.

The other day, after Ozzie complained about his SM and Steve suggested that the fault it might be in the deterioration over time of a component, I got very worried. But when I took the unit out, I realized that, without it, I would be taking a huge step backward. It's not coming out again. After putting in my two cents worth, I went back and reread the thread, and saw that Ozzie, as he admits, was never enamored of this product for whatever reason. For me the SM is a godsend.   
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: path73 on 13 May 2013, 08:01 pm
I think you don't suspect what the SM can really do in your system as long as you haven't heard at least OT mod (standard on new units now I read, OTL even better but only if DAC is compatible) and Steve's new BNC-BNC coax cable. The improvements are unbelievable! Never thought upgrading my already good silver coax cable could have such a dramatic effect. My coax cable was actually preventing the truly extraordinary low-jitter performance of the SM to shine through.
Happy listening (for those who haven't sold their SM...) and from virtually any digital source!
/patrick
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: mtruong34 on 14 May 2013, 12:46 am
In my experience, the SM helps poor sources but negligible effect on good sources. Connected to the optical line out from my Dish network receiver, the SQ is improved. However, from my laptop USB using a hiface converter and AP2, I can hear little difference with or without the SM in the chain. My SM does not have any mods and I use much better than generic cables.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 14 May 2013, 03:01 pm
Mine, with the OTL and new cable that Steve makes, improves everything I plug into it. I have a very nice transport, Bel Canto CD3T. While I agree it does not make a huge difference vs. this transport direct to the DAC, it is notable in that there is a slight fuzz to the sound that is gone when used with the SMR.

Now, the Pure I20 ipod dock is greatly improved. So much so that I cannot stand to listen to it without the SMR, and it performs equal to the CD transport with the SMR.

That said, I'd say that the latest SMR will never sound worse than the best transport. It just needs a signal to do its thing. That's pretty cool if you ask me, and one can save money using any compatible source, rather than buying an expensive transport.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 23 May 2013, 01:21 pm
It's been like two weeks since I received my SM with the OTL mods (no cable). First off I'd like to point that while away, my SM was greatly missed. I didn't listen to music as much, it wasn't as fun. Music wasn't as crisp, and soundstage smaller. I tried to forget about this and listen to music, but I always ended up turning off the stereo a lot sooner than before. Some days went by and I didn't even turn it on, that shocked my wife. So I'm just saying this as a sort of disclaimer. When I got the unit, only physical difference I noticed right away was the missing RCA Coax output. Fine by me. I connected the unit  with the provided 75ohms adapter and sat and listened. I smiled right away, my stereo was back, with balloons. Difference the mods made? I'd say, that everything that the SM did, was bettered by about 15 to 25%. In audio world, that's a lot. Music is presented with more control, one can look more into the music, bass is improved along with soundstage, and slam. Brass sounds are more alive and great extension. Low level detail is greatly improved, allowing me to enjoy music till wee hours at night. The Mod is definitely worth it, better yet I'd say it's a must. Now when I take the SM out of the system (just for fun A/B), the difference can be perceived very easily. Yes, it was the case before, but now more so. Now I can't get out of my mind how much better the Off Ramp must sound  grrr. This hobby's gonna kill me  :scratch:

Any news on the new power supply Steve?

Simon


Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 23 May 2013, 05:59 pm
It's been like two weeks since I received my SM with the OTL mods (no cable). First off I'd like to point that while away, my SM was greatly missed. I didn't listen to music as much, it wasn't as fun. Music wasn't as crisp, and soundstage smaller. I tried to forget about this and listen to music, but I always ended up turning off the stereo a lot sooner than before. Some days went by and I didn't even turn it on, that shocked my wife. So I'm just saying this as a sort of disclaimer. When I got the unit, only physical difference I noticed right away was the missing RCA Coax output. Fine by me. I connected the unit  with the provided 75ohms adapter and sat and listened. I smiled right away, my stereo was back, with balloons. Difference the mods made? I'd say, that everything that the SM did, was bettered by about 15 to 25%. In audio world, that's a lot. Music is presented with more control, one can look more into the music, bass is improved along with soundstage, and slam. Brass sounds are more alive and great extension. Low level detail is greatly improved, allowing me to enjoy music till wee hours at night. The Mod is definitely worth it, better yet I'd say it's a must. Now when I take the SM out of the system (just for fun A/B), the difference can be perceived very easily. Yes, it was the case before, but now more so. Now I can't get out of my mind how much better the Off Ramp must sound  grrr. This hobby's gonna kill me  :scratch:

Any news on the new power supply Steve?

Simon
It will be while longer.  Hynes workstation had disk problems and he is recovering.

Steve N.
Title: Does the Synchro-Mesh work with television audio?
Post by: Recorder on 23 Jul 2013, 01:21 pm
Will the Synchro-Mesh work with the optical out from a TV?  Or does it introduce a latency that makes the audio lag the video? 

Cheers,
Bill
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: mtruong34 on 23 Jul 2013, 01:42 pm
I'm using the SM Reclocker with the optical out from my Dish receiver and do not notice a significant lag.  I think there is always very slight lag from my satiellite box to TV but I don't believe the SM introduces any additional lag.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: livengood1 on 27 Aug 2013, 06:39 pm
I now have much more experience with the Syncro-mesh than the last time I chimed in. That experience has only further reinforced my love for this unit. I have tried several cables (my own Lessloss as well as several well-regarded brands borrowed from friends), including cables of different lengths. For some reason, 2 meters sounded slightly better to me than the same cables in 1.5 meter--I have no idea why.  For the past month or so, I have been listening mostly with Toslink, which . . . actually sounds the best. I have the ability to do instant comparisons between inputs and there is no doubt in my mind that my Wireworld Supernova 6 glass cable sounds better than any of the far more expensive coax cables that I tried. I had always been told that Toslink is inferior, but my own experience says that this is not true (at least with this cable). Maybe it is the electrical isolation or maybe some other factor is at play, but I would encourage others to give it a try. The Synchro-mesh sounds great with every cable I have tried and I would be happy with any of them, but I am happiest with the glass link. I am curious if anyone else has any opinions about this.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 28 Aug 2013, 01:20 am
Have you tried Steve's new SPDIF Cable? It is fantastic and has beaten everything I have.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: livengood1 on 28 Aug 2013, 05:31 pm
Have you tried Steve's new SPDIF Cable? It is fantastic and has beaten everything I have.

No, I haven't. I tried only what I already own and what I could borrow from friends. For me, several hundred bucks is a big investment in a cable, so I only wanted something I could hear in my own listening room before buying one and I wanted to compare cables from different manufacturers. When a friend lent me his Supernova 6 cable, it sounded better to me than everything else I had tried, so I bought one. And then I sold my Losslink coax cable and came out ahead. I've since been reading up about S/PDIF coax and, the more I learn, the more convinced I am that these cables, even the very good ones, are hit and miss. It might sound great in one chain and not so in another. I'm done for now. The SM is great, and much more affordable than buying everything new. The music sounds wonderful with what I have now. I am still a bit perplexed about why the Toslink sounds so good, because almost everything I have read disparages these cables. I don't care though. It works for me.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 28 Aug 2013, 06:06 pm
Another review of the Synchro-Mesh by Audio/Video Revolution:

http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-accessories/accessories/empirical-audio-synchro-mesh-reclocker.html (http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-accessories/accessories/empirical-audio-synchro-mesh-reclocker.html)
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Dr4Bob on 20 Sep 2013, 05:01 pm
I purchased a Syncro-Mesh (24/96) shortly after introduction for use with my Sonos system. I find the soundstage, imaging, note timbre and decay markedly improved. Really an outstanding addition. I find no difference between the Red Book CD and the ALAC rip via Sonos and the S-M.

I have also used both the Monarchy DIP and the Cullen Mod ZP 90. Briefly, the Monarchy solution does improve the "focus" of music albeit no where near the degree of the S-M or Cullen Mod, but is considerably less expensive, especially on the used market.
The Cullen Mod ZP 90 and Empirical solutions achieve essentially the same excellent results. I find a Cullen Mod ZP 90 through a S-M vs straight in to the DAC to be identical, suggesting very low jitter from the Cullen Mod.

System used: Mac Book Pro server-> Sonos Bridge-> (re clocker)-> Grace m902-> Senn HD600 or-> W4S ST 500-> Zu Omen
                                                                   
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 21 Sep 2013, 05:48 pm
I purchased a Syncro-Mesh (24/96) shortly after introduction for use with my Sonos system. I find the soundstage, imaging, note timbre and decay markedly improved. Really an outstanding addition. I find no difference between the Red Book CD and the ALAC rip via Sonos and the S-M.

I have also used both the Monarchy DIP and the Cullen Mod ZP 90. Briefly, the Monarchy solution does improve the "focus" of music albeit no where near the degree of the S-M or Cullen Mod, but is considerably less expensive, especially on the used market.
The Cullen Mod ZP 90 and Empirical solutions achieve essentially the same excellent results. I find a Cullen Mod ZP 90 through a S-M vs straight in to the DAC to be identical, suggesting very low jitter from the Cullen Mod.

System used: Mac Book Pro server-> Sonos Bridge-> (re clocker)-> Grace m902-> Senn HD600 or-> W4S ST 500-> Zu Omen
                                                                   

Are you using a Hynes supply on the SM?  If not, this should make it pull ahead of even the Cullen mod.  I will have this new supply available, the "Dynamo", by year end.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Pzwief on 23 Sep 2013, 11:09 pm
Any idea of cost for the Dynamo?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 24 Sep 2013, 02:00 am
Any idea of cost for the Dynamo?

I just finished the BOM for it and it looks like $629.00.  I had hoped to do $599, but raw parts cost before assembly and test is about $400.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: andrewd01 on 26 Sep 2013, 06:22 pm
I just finished the BOM for it and it looks like $629.00.  I had hoped to do $599, but raw parts cost before assembly and test is about $400.

Steve N.

Steve, will the Dynamo also be able to power an Offramp? 
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: livengood1 on 26 Sep 2013, 11:06 pm
" I will have this new supply available, the "Dynamo", by year end.

Steve N."


I, for one, will be eagerly in line for the Dynamo as soon as I get my tax refund. I am already very happy with this amazing product (with one major exception--now that I am using a Wireworld Supernova glass cable for the Toslink "out," there is no room to fit a Toslink"in" cable--not a good thing. But it sounds so good that I can deal with the inconvenience). Classical music with the Synchro-mesh is almost like being in the concert hall--many times it takes my breath away. My guests who hear it always think that I have the surround system on!
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: paul79 on 27 Sep 2013, 06:14 am
You got it! When you get the jitter down in a resolving system, the speakers do things you never thought possible from digital.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: hearnow1 on 27 Sep 2013, 11:23 pm
I use a Modwright Transporter into a PS audio Perfect Wave DAC MK II, and wonder if Steve if you think that the synchromesh will improve the sound?  The squeezebox software is the only thing I I've found that can play my music collection randomly without a computer, so I use the Transporter even though the PS Audio PW DAC II bridge sounds better.  Steve, I am wondering if you think the Modwright modifications or the PS Audio digital lens negates the need for the Synchromesh reclocker?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 27 Sep 2013, 11:35 pm
I use a Modwright Transporter into a PS audio Perfect Wave DAC MK II, and wonder if Steve if you think that the synchromesh will improve the sound?  The squeezebox software is the only thing I I've found that can play my music collection randomly without a computer, so I use the Transporter even though the PS Audio PW DAC II bridge sounds better.  Steve, I am wondering if you think the Modwright modifications or the PS Audio digital lens negates the need for the Synchromesh reclocker?

As far as I know, the jitter from the modded Transporter is still a problem.  The Modwright mods usually focus on the analog sections.

As for the PWD, I have a quite a few customers using Off-Ramp 5 with it to reduce jitter, so I think the digital lens is only so effective.  The best thing is to give it a try.  Its returnable and refundable if it does not satisfy.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: path73 on 3 Oct 2013, 07:31 am
I now have much more experience with the Syncro-mesh than the last time I chimed in. That experience has only further reinforced my love for this unit. I have tried several cables (my own Lessloss as well as several well-regarded brands borrowed from friends), including cables of different lengths. For some reason, 2 meters sounded slightly better to me than the same cables in 1.5 meter--I have no idea why.  For the past month or so, I have been listening mostly with Toslink, which . . . actually sounds the best. I have the ability to do instant comparisons between inputs and there is no doubt in my mind that my Wireworld Supernova 6 glass cable sounds better than any of the far more expensive coax cables that I tried. I had always been told that Toslink is inferior, but my own experience says that this is not true (at least with this cable). Maybe it is the electrical isolation or maybe some other factor is at play, but I would encourage others to give it a try. The Synchro-mesh sounds great with every cable I have tried and I would be happy with any of them, but I am happiest with the glass link. I am curious if anyone else has any opinions about this.

In my setup, I can hear a clear improvement in SQ with SM when I connect a source by Toslink rather than coax, probably due to ground loop issues (particularly from my TV-box). Cutting ground loops at the SM input makes sense to me.

Coax output with Steve's new cable is absolute Nirvana, nothing I tried comes close to it (coax or optical) to feed my DAC. By the way, this cable also does marvels on other coax audio sources!

But I think cable differences become more apparent when a Hynes supply is connected to the SM. The upcoming Dynamo with new umbilical should be even better than my SR3.

Cheers,
/patrick
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 3 Oct 2013, 05:44 pm
In my setup, I can hear a clear improvement in SQ with SM when I connect a source by Toslink rather than coax, probably due to ground loop issues (particularly from my TV-box). Cutting ground loops at the SM input makes sense to me.

If you have a standard SM without OTL, all inputs and outputs are galvanically isolated.  It is probably that your toslink cable is better than your coax, but there is always the coax output transformer that adds jitter.  No transformer on the toslink.

Quote
Coax output with Steve's new cable is absolute Nirvana, nothing I tried comes close to it (coax or optical) to feed my DAC. By the way, this cable also does marvels on other coax audio sources!

You should try my BNC/BNC cable.  it is unbeaten so far.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: echarlie on 6 Nov 2013, 07:15 pm
Using: Sonos>Schiit Audio Bifrost DAC.  They say the Bifrost reduces the jitter to nearly inaudible levels.  If this is true, would I still benefit in sound quality improvements enough to make the purchase of a synchro mesh worth it?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 6 Nov 2013, 07:27 pm
Using: Sonos>Schiit Audio Bifrost DAC.  They say the Bifrost reduces the jitter to nearly inaudible levels.  If this is true, would I still benefit in sound quality improvements enough to make the purchase of a synchro mesh worth it?

Inaudible levels?  Not likely IME.  I have yet to hear ANY DAC at ANY price that can do this.

SM has money-back, less shipping.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: echarlie on 6 Nov 2013, 07:37 pm
So basically what you're saying is that any DAC will still allow audible jitter and because of this, the synchro mesh will improve that and thusly, the sound quality.

I was concerned that the reclocker is not "bit perfect" but the bifrost is supposed to be I believe and that this might cause issues.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 7 Nov 2013, 06:35 pm
So basically what you're saying is that any DAC will still allow audible jitter and because of this, the synchro mesh will improve that and thusly, the sound quality.

Correct.

Quote
I was concerned that the reclocker is not "bit perfect" but the bifrost is supposed to be I believe and that this might cause issues.

It has not caused any issues with other DACs.  This resampling hardware is much better than older chips.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 13 Nov 2013, 12:26 pm
Hi Steve. I need some help with all of these upgrades. I have the basic SM, running bnc to coax on both a peachtree idac and ps audio nuwave. Does the OTL option apply in these cases?  Does the Dynamo power supply option also apply? If one or both options apply  in my case and will increase SQ i am in. Thanks for your help.


Cooch

   
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 13 Nov 2013, 08:58 pm
Hi Steve. I need some help with all of these upgrades. I have the basic SM, running bnc to coax on both a peachtree idac and ps audio nuwave. Does the OTL option apply in these cases?  Does the Dynamo power supply option also apply? If one or both options apply  in my case and will increase SQ i am in. Thanks for your help.


Cooch

Look at the specs or contact the manufacturer to see if the coax input has transformer isolation.

The Dynamo will improve the SM significantly.

I also highly recommend my BNC-BNC cable with adapters.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 14 Nov 2013, 12:37 am
Hi Steve. I need some help with all of these upgrades. I have the basic SM, running bnc to coax on both a peachtree idac and ps audio nuwave. Does the OTL option apply in these cases?  Does the Dynamo power supply option also apply? If one or both options apply  in my case and will increase SQ i am in. Thanks for your help.


Cooch

 

I have the Peachtree iDac. The inputs are isolated so you can get the OTL mod. I got the the OTL mod on my Synchro Mesh, the sound quality improved a lot.

Simon
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 14 Nov 2013, 12:58 pm
thanks steve and simon. simon, did you get or plan to get the dynamo also?
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: cooch on 14 Nov 2013, 01:20 pm
Steve, regarding your BNC-BNC cable with adapters. if my dac doesn't have a bnc input, will the adapters take care of that and will it work just as well as without the adapters? and how would i hook up your cable, from the sonos to the SM BNC in, then from the SM BNC out to the dac?  thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 14 Nov 2013, 07:59 pm
Steve, regarding your BNC-BNC cable with adapters. if my dac doesn't have a bnc input, will the adapters take care of that and will it work just as well as without the adapters? and how would i hook up your cable, from the sonos to the SM BNC in, then from the SM BNC out to the dac?  thanks

Adapter will take care of that.  Works just as well.

From Sonos to SM I would recommend a cheap coax or Toslink, even plastic.  Not critical.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Watthead on 14 Nov 2013, 08:25 pm
thanks steve and simon. simon, did you get or plan to get the dynamo also?

Haven''t gotten the Dynamo, but I'm planning to.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: trekker on 15 Nov 2013, 12:07 am
Steve,

I'm using my SM from my Sonos to my Marantz AV8801. All the connections are done via Digital RCA patch cord. My Marantz's RCA digital input goes directly into an IC buffer (no isolation transformer). My SM power supply is plugged into PI Audio Majik Buss rev B. I have an upcoming bonus and was wondering which would give me the best upgrade:

1. OTL upgrade & cable (BNC w/RCA adapters)

Or

2. Dynamo power supply.

Thanks,

Arnold
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: audioengr on 15 Nov 2013, 01:31 am
Steve,

I'm using my SM from my Sonos to my Marantz AV8801. All the connections are done via Digital RCA patch cord. My Marantz's RCA digital input goes directly into an IC buffer (no isolation transformer). My SM power supply is plugged into PI Audio Majik Buss rev B. I have an upcoming bonus and was wondering which would give me the best upgrade:

1. OTL upgrade & cable (BNC w/RCA adapters)

Or

2. Dynamo power supply.

Thanks,

Arnold

The Dynamo is what I would recommend, however if you have an older SM it may not have the OT upgrade.  You must have this one. All SM sold starting in April 2013 have the OT upgrade.  It is a $100 upgrade if you don't have it.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh OTL with other DACs
Post by: justubes on 28 Nov 2014, 11:06 am
Hi,

Are esoteric dacs/player with digital in have the galvanic transformers on the input?

Does the synchromesh OTL not work otherwise if there is no transformer at the input?

Where can one find/confirm this information as manufacturers dont state transformer at digital in spec, usually?

Thanks
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh OTL with other DACs
Post by: audioengr on 28 Nov 2014, 08:00 pm
Hi,

Are esoteric dacs/player with digital in have the galvanic transformers on the input?

Does the synchromesh OTL not work otherwise if there is no transformer at the input?

It will work, just no isolation between grounds.

Quote
Where can one find/confirm this information as manufacturers dont state transformer at digital in spec, usually?

You have to examine the circuit or contact a technical person with Esoteric.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews
Post by: Wig on 2 Mar 2018, 04:53 pm
:)