[ECM]

I've had my Reference 20 amplifiers for about six months and feel I can give an honest assessment of them now.  My prior system consisted of Krell 400xi integrated, Clearaudio Concept TT and Basic Plus/Accu Plus preamp, DAC1 and MacMini, and Focal Micro Utopia Be speakers, everything wired with Nordost - power and signal.

My first move to NuForce was when I replaced the Krell and Benchmark with Reference 9 SE V2s and upgraded to a DAC2 to use as a preamp.  Krell amplification works well with Focal, however, there was a very slight softening of the upper end and some minuscule bass bloom; in MY setup.  The Reference 9's corrected the softening and the bloom, but added a tiny amount of mist or grain.  It was a tradeoff between an involving sound (Krell) and a more neutral sound (NuForce).

Enter the Reference 20's.  I took advantage of a promotional deal NuForce offered last year and picked up the 20's.

By now, I had upgraded the Clearaudio Concept for a Clearaudio Ambient with ceramic bearing and moved up to the Balance Plus phono pre.  All else remained the same.  Same preamp, same power cords, same interconnects, same speaker cables, same speakers, same room, same MacMini, etc.

Using the MacMini and DAC2, what struck me immediately about the 20's was their lack of mist!  Even cold and not broken in, they sounded very detailed and smooth.  The grain of the reference 9's was gone, but the entire frequency response remained balanced.  Hi-hats sounded life like and I was impressed with their decay.  Bass remained tight and even with all types of music.  Listening to Jaco run up and down the bass neck sounded like I was listening to his bass amp in my room, not his bass amp recorded in a studio and played back in my room.

Sound staging was impeccable.  I believe this to be due to the matching between amplifiers, a sign of good quality control.  My preamp doesn't have channel balance so I cannot adjust any channel mismatches, but with the reference 20's, I didn't have to.  Voices appeared centered and about a foot behind the speakers.  This is not to say the other amps were mismatched; it's one of those things you don't notice until you notice.

As I put more and more hours on the amps, they settled in a bit and the frequency extremes opened up slightly.  Their midrange fleshed out a bit.  Neither of these changes were dramatic though.

I urge anyone looking to make a move to NuPrime/Nuforce to give a consideration to the reference 20's if they fall in your budget.  And if they don't, consider holding off a bit until you can!

[rustydoglim]

Thanks!
An alternative to Ref 20 (lower price and slightly different sound), if your preference is warmer sound (Ref 20 is certainly not cold), consider the MCH-K38 in bridged mono configuration.
Most likely you like tube amp but realise that perhaps technology has advanced to the point where something out there can perfectly create the tube-like sound, but with fast dynamic and explosive power. And that would be MCH-K38.

[Tedtag]

Thanks for your review and glad you are enjoying the R20's. Did you get the TDSS upgrade or have you considered it?

[ECM]

Tedtag,

At the moment I'm perfectly happy with the amplifiers, stock.  I have looked into the TDSS upgrades, however, I'm not looking to go that route.  The Reference 20's already have shielded power cable and shielded modules.  The TDSS upgrade would add chassis damping and replace one cable with a flat ribbon cable, not sure which one.

[mcgsxr]

That's a well written, sensible review.  I love reading the story of another member's journey to happiness!

[gammajo]

ECM - Thanks for the cogent review. I had modified Ref 9 V3Se's (bypassed power switch and fuse and replaced IEC with best Furtech which improved sound - clearer and more silent). I moved up to the Ref 20 last year. They were cut of the same cloth but to me added more refinement, better inner detail, a touch more liquidity, killer dynamics with zero strain, and better sound staging, particularly depth in the far corners. And this is with standard fuse/switch combo.
 
Something you might try - Recently, I replaced the standard fuses with Audio Horizons "more than a fuse" and immediately noted an increase in the already amazing Ref 20 bass differentiation of subtle sounds such as where the drummer hits the same note on the drum at different times, and an increase in the natural sparkle and liquidity of the highs. In a 10 Audio review of the AH fuses the reviewer put standard fuses as 1 and SR fuse as 3, the AMR fuse as a 9, and the AH fuse as a 12 on )on a 10 scale. Others reviewed positively as well.
I am using the very capable Von Schweikert Audio VR 55 Aktive speakers, terrific wire (MasterBuilt Ultra), and the Ref 20s are fully satisfying in this system.  To Rusty's point, I do use a tubed preamp (Ayon) that may give me the warmth that he is referring to. In my mind the Ref 20s are the clearest pass through of what ever is in front of them that I have heard. The AH fuses are from brilliant designer Joseph Chow (owned his preamp for a good while) and by his report are assembled out of UL approved parts in UL approved manner for complete safety, but are not UL tested.

Question - please, what is the TDSS upgrade and who offers it?

[John Casler]

Question - please, what is the TDSS upgrade and who offers it?

Hi Joe,

I thought of you today, after hearing an INCREDIBLE pair of New Speakers, on my NuFORCE and NuPRIME gear.

As far as the TDSS upgrade, I thought we had spoken about this.

Below this is the thread for it.  Let me know if you have questions.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138660.0

[rustydoglim]

Due to licensing issue, we can no longer use NuForce logo. Therefore new shipment of Reference 20 will have the NuPrime logo.
That's all, only the change in logo.  All the old NuForce high-end products are still serviced by NuPrime.

[gammajo]

John - Thanks for the info on TDSS upgrade. I do remember we talked about it, but I have been so happy with the Ref 20's that I forgot about it. I will check into this again when some funds become available.

[Tedtag]

Hi Joe,

My R20-s are on their way back from TDSS with the upgrade. I'll post my thoughts about it after they get set up in my system next week and settle in for a while.

[gammajo]

TedTag
I would very much love a report - don't see how it can get better, but I have said that before and ate those words.

[gammajo]

TedTag
Did you get your TDDS modded Ref 20's up yet? Would love to hear initial impressions here or by pm
Joe

[Tedtag]

Thanks Joe. I have the R20's set up and have been listening on and off for about a week. I think the amps still need some time to break in plus I sent my CJ GAT preamp back to the factory for the Series 2 upgrade. The GAT was shipped back yesterday and its expected to be here tomorrow.  (Also, my Shunyata Triton v2 arrives today. I'm trading in my v1 through the Cable Company's upgrade program. So its gonna be a great weekend around here!) I'm a tube/planar  guy at heart and my previous amps are Carver Black Beauty 305's set in the "vintage mode" which are on the warm and lush side of the scale. I've also got a pair of CJ Premier 8's with a KT120 and teflon cap upgrade that provide gobs of raw tube power, for comparison. I'll try those at some point when I can hire a crew to move them since they weigh about 100 lbs each!

Anyway, I've listened to the R20-'s with both a CJ ET3 and a Triode TRX 2 preamp; both are very good tube preamps but not in the same class as the GAT. I'll skip the details on describing the differences in those preamps because its an entirely separate subject. But I can give you some initial impressions of the R20's based on what I'm hearing. First they have NO problem driving my Maggie 3.7i's. I've also got a pair of REL G2 subs hooked up with the Neutrik connector, crossed over at 39hz. The Maggies are 4 ohm speakers so the R20's are feeding them with over 400 Watts each according to the specs. The extension on female vocals is incredible with no problem hanging in there on very loud high frequencies. For example, Linda Ronstadt's "What's New." There are a couple of passages where she grabs a note and even though I know its coming and sort of prepare myself, these amps capture all the nuances with gobs of power. Same with the bass. Tons of dynamic power and very tight. Crescendos or a whack on a Tympani drum can be startling where I have physically grabbed the arms of my listening seat.

Also, the tonality is wonderful.The R20's don't have even a hint of stridency or edginess, and I just can't stand that kind of sound. They seem to lean towards a tube sound but don't give up any of the detail or the sharpness on the leading edge of notes. They just sound natural and sort of crisp compared to what I'm used to. There is also a texture to the sound that I really like although I think the spare preamps I've been using can't quite capture all of the real beauty of the sound that the amps are capable of creating. Also, the soundstage is wider and more 3 dimensional than the Carvers, which were quite good in that regard. Its not unusual with the R20's to hear sounds several feet to the left or right of the speakers with images placed more distinctly in a 3 dimensional space.

I'll have more to say after I get the GAT back in the system and I have more hours on the amps. They do seem to need quite a while to warm up, and I'll be playing them non stop with the GAT to break them both in, for the next week or so. I'll let you know more of my thoughts as soon as everything settles in. Thanks!

Ted

[gammajo]

TEdTag Thanks for sharing your impressions in detail. Sound like you have a great system going on. Sure is fun to be waiting for upgraded pieces and then satisfying when you hear the improvments. Did you ever hear the Ref 20's in your system before the TDDS upgrade and if so can you comment on what you think the upgrade might be doing over stock?
Joe

[mresseguie]

Tedtag,

Thank you for posting your review.   

It is very detailed and I learn from it.

Michael

[KLH007]

Red tag,

Thank you for posting your review.   

It is very detailed and I learn from it.

Michael

Mike, I sense you are closer to getting an ST-10 and sending it to Bob?

[mresseguie]

Mike, I sense you are closer to getting an ST-10 and sending it to Bob?

Hey. You look familiar yet somehow different. 

Well, Bob and I have exchanged emails, and John Casler is going to send some gear for the upcoming Oregon GTG, but he hasn't specified exactly which models. I guess I'm closer, but I won't know how much closer until I know what's headed in my direction.

Just in the last few days I've wondered what life would be like with Ref 20s. There are just so many choices to sift through...focus, Michael, focus.  Okay. My getting Ref 20s is more fantasy than possible reality at this time.

[John Casler]

Just in the last few days I've wondered what life would be like with Ref 20s. There are just so many choices to sift through...focus, Michael, focus.  Okay. My getting Ref 20s is more fantasy than possible reality at this time.

I often "specialize" in turning FANTASY into REALITY. . . . .

[Armaegis]

What's the safeword John? 

[John Casler]

What's the safeword John? 

Recall