AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Herbie's Audio Lab => Topic started by: GentleBender on 2 Nov 2015, 05:00 pm
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My recent addition of the VPI HW-19 TT has introduced a problem to my rack, sure I'm not the first. I need something to either raise the turntable above the posts or to make another platform for the TT. The pictures show how the post make it impossible to put the TT on the shelf. What are your suggestion(s)?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131014)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131015)
Same on both sides...
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How about just leaving the pavers and placing another shelf on top of pavers, maybe with some big fat dots in between?
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That could work, but I'm concerned about the little bits of sand and junk coming off the pavers. Any recommendations on what I could paint them with to prevent this? Does it really matter what I paint/stain them with? I don't want debris around my vinyl that could inadvertently get on a brush and end up destroying a record.
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Noone will be able to tell you what will work best sonically. Noone.
Your needs are simple, you basically need to raise the table (or a shelf added under the table) over the nuts. Just try a few different things you probably already have around the house (or easily / cheaply obtainable), listen, compare, and decide for yourself. You may discern no difference whatsoever. Blocks of wood, bricks, hockey pucks, rubber bottle stoppers, cut in half squash balls, shot glasses filled with sand, etc. Use your imagination. Be creative. Doesn't have to be expensive or elaborate or even audiophile approved.
If you don't like the result, maybe move onto more specialized audio specific tweak stuff. Maybe start with these cork / rubber vibration blocks for only 34 cents a piece!
http://parksupplyofamerica.com/gproduct.php?id=DIVMP2C&fam=PZLFZCU4A8RF&addons=y
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That could work, but I'm concerned about the little bits of sand and junk coming off the pavers. Any recommendations on what I could paint them with to prevent this? Does it really matter what I paint/stain them with? I don't want debris around my vinyl that could inadvertently get on a brush and end up destroying a record.
I would paint them with a thick water base paint to match your rack .( satin or flat black) Then as BobRex suggests, place a wood shelf on top the bricks isolated with some type of footer or "dots" mentioned. I've used mouse pads in a similar situation as well. As far as the wood shelf, I've used 1.5"-2" thick maple butcher block with good success. Thinner shelves of bamboo and Baltic birch ply are also good choices. All are going to present a bit of a different sonic signature however.
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Can the turntable feet be unscrewed and new, lets say points or cones be screwed in instead?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131093) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131094)
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If you don't mind an unfinished look, maybe these? That come in all black, can have cones on top
(http://assets.rockler.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/65x65/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/6/46902-05-1000.jpg)
http://www.rockler.com/bench-cookie-plus-work-grippers
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Years ago I built a Flexy type rack similar to what this looks like and had the same problem.
Here is how I solved it. I measured the height of the top shelf nuts above the surface. Then I made a shelf piece the same size as your top shelf but slightly thicker than the height of the nuts.
I then drilled some holes in the bottom of The extra shelf piece which were the diameter of the nuts, or in your case of the washers. I made sure to line up the holes with the nuts in the four corners of your top shelf.
After that you can simply place this new shelf over your top one which then covers the top nuts but gives you a totally flat surface to place your turntable.
If possible I recommend making even thicker.
Let me know if this makes sense. If not I will use to sizes and dimensions to illustrate what I am saying.
Cheers,
Hugo
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Your explanation is quite clear. Brilliant idea and very elegant solution, Hugo. I like it! :thumb:
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Thank you Sunny. I dont post much but this is something I thought I could help with.
Some further thoughts/tips because not everyone has access to tools.
You can go to a Lowes, Home Depot, Menards etc and buy 1/2" or 3/4" plywood sheets. Then get them to cut it to your shelf size. Have them cut (3) shelves for you say...24"x18" each or whatever your self size needs to be.
Then, if you dont have a drll press or forstner bits to drill the large diameter "recessed" holes to fit over your nut/washer buy a hole saw (of the dianeter thate you need). Drill the (4) holes using your drill or have a buddy do that for you on (2) of the (3) shelf pieces. The hole saw will cut all the way through it. Then glue those two together carefully lining up the holes.
Now glue the third shelf (which has no holes) on top and you end up with a solid top with recessed holes underneath that doesnt require high end tools. Presto!
Last tip: ( sorry for the long post)
If possible unbolt your existing top shelf and use that to line up the holes on the new shelf you are creating. That way you wont need to guess where They are nor make high precision measurements.
Lastly, once you have the position of your holes, take one of the washers and trace it in place so now you know "where" the holes go and"what" minimum diameter you hole needs to be. I recommend making your hole slightly larger.
If you want to get fancy you can use different materials for that top shelf to create a multilayer turntable shelf that would isolate different frequency of vibrations depending on the materals (mdf, plywood, corian etc) used in your shelf.
Hope it will works for your. Your choices are only lmited by your creativity.
Cheers
Hugo
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Hope it will works for your. Your choices are only lmited by your creativity.
Cheers
Hugo
Exactly! :thumb:
Don't be afraid to experiment, even with zero cost household items. Once, to get my table elevated for cable clearance, I even raised it up on sand filled shot glasses. Have also used hockey pucks and blocks of wood. Can't say I heard sonic detriment with any. :dunno:
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PS: Good tip about removing existing shelf to use as template for hole locations. And I would definitely drill holes a bit larger than needed.
I'd probably choose thick butcher block vs stacked / glued plywood. On the underside just carefully drill the 4 holes to the needed depth, and drop right on top of existing. This choice not based on sonics, as I have no idea which would perform better. BB is less work than cutting and gluing all that plywood, and will look much better too, IMO.
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Thank you to everyone for helping!
Can the turntable feet be unscrewed and new, lets say points or cones be screwed in instead?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131093) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131094)
I believe so, it is the VPI HW-19. Great option!
If you don't mind an unfinished look, maybe these? That come in all black, can have cones on top
(http://assets.rockler.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/65x65/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/6/46902-05-1000.jpg)
http://www.rockler.com/bench-cookie-plus-work-grippers
Interesting and cheap!
Thank you Sunny. I dont post much but this is something I thought I could help with.
Some further thoughts/tips because not everyone has access to tools.
You can go to a Lowes, Home Depot, Menards etc and buy 1/2" or 3/4" plywood sheets. Then get them to cut it to your shelf size. Have them cut (3) shelves for you say...24"x18" each or whatever your self size needs to be.
Then, if you dont have a drll press or forstner bits to drill the large diameter "recessed" holes to fit over your nut/washer buy a hole saw (of the dianeter thate you need). Drill the (4) holes using your drill or have a buddy do that for you on (2) of the (3) shelf pieces. The hole saw will cut all the way through it. Then glue those two together carefully lining up the holes.
Now glue the third shelf (which has no holes) on top and you end up with a solid top with recessed holes underneath that doesnt require high end tools. Presto!
Last tip: ( sorry for the long post)
If possible unbolt your existing top shelf and use that to line up the holes on the new shelf you are creating. That way you wont need to guess where They are nor make high precision measurements.
Lastly, once you have the position of your holes, take one of the washers and trace it in place so now you know "where" the holes go and"what" minimum diameter you hole needs to be. I recommend making your hole slightly larger.
If you want to get fancy you can use different materials for that top shelf to create a multilayer turntable shelf that would isolate different frequency of vibrations depending on the materals (mdf, plywood, corian etc) used in your shelf.
Hope it will works for your. Your choices are only lmited by your creativity.
Cheers
Hugo
This seems like a great long term solution! :thumb: I plan on trying this out with the red granite or onyx I picked up from the local stone and tile shop that I frequent for my yard landscaping. It was a cheap couple of leftover pieces that didn't have to be perfect.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131161)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131162)
Here is the temporary setup.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131163)
I removed the center support after realizing I could push it either way like you would a Jenga piece. :icon_lol: Would extra-thick grunge buster dots help isolate the turntable until I buy better feet for the TT?
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I removed the center support after realizing I could push it either way like you would a Jenga piece. :icon_lol: Would extra-thick grunge buster dots help isolate the turntable until I buy better feet for the TT?
Definitely! Put them under and / or over the support strips. Perhaps Herbie can weigh in on the best location. They'd also keep things from sliding around.
For grip, you can also try pieces of rubberized shelf liner. I sometimes use it to prevent stuff from sliding around on my shelves. I've no idea how (or if?) this will effect your sound.
http://www.amazon.com/Duck-1100731-Non-Adhesive-12-Inch-20-Feet/dp/B002AS9NAI
Looks good, GB.
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Edit issue.
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n on trying this out with the red granite or onyx I picked up from the local stone and tile shop that I frequent for my yard landscaping. It was a cheap couple of leftover pieces that didn't have to be perfect.
Maybe your stone supplier can cut the holes for you. After all, they do it for kitchen sink faucets. If they can't do holes, maybe st cut 45° pics at the corners.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131177)
Granite surface plate. 18X18X3 inch thick. 108lbs. All surfaces polished, no dirt, grit or BS. Parallel, FLAT and square. Sold by Grizzly through Amazon (free shipping via freight). $113.00
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD0KI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
Stops all vibrations in my setup. Rests on Sorbothane bushings. http://www.mcmaster.com/#sorbothane/=zo4erv
Probably make your rack top heavy though.... Maybe a new rack............ light weights need not apply...
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Bob2 - that's incredible!
They even have one with ledges! Might be perfect for the OP
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61E6Otjz5ML._SL1000_.jpg)
Grizzly G9655 18-Inch by 24-Inch by 3-Inch Granite Surface Plate, 2 Ledges https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000DD0KK/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_gqQowb2G6N2W0
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rif,
these are Chinese in origin but are actually very good. Stupid good price too. As good as the Starrett surface plates I used for years. Lab grade.
Mass is our friend.. if eliminating outside influences.. This is one heavy mofo!
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Has the sound changed at all with the new self?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131192)
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Has the sound changed at all with the new shelf?
I haven't had enough time to listen since adding the additional material to the shelf. Catching up at work after my vacation has me going in early and by the time I'm done with everything I'm extra tired from the time change here. However, I still make time for one side of a record. :wink:
I may try to do a comparison, but that table is heavy with that TNT platter and I hate fighting to get the ground wires attached behind the phono stage. :x The tonearm has two separate grounds and my anti-static brush has one too, when I try to attach the third, one of the three jump off. Times like that make me wish I had three arms...
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Granite surface plate. 18X18X3 inch thick. 108lbs. All surfaces polished, no dirt, grit or BS. Parallel, FLAT and square. Sold by Grizzly through Amazon (free shipping via freight). $113.00
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD0KI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
Stops all vibrations in my setup. Rests on Sorbothane bushings. http://www.mcmaster.com/#sorbothane/=zo4erv
Probably make your rack top heavy though.... Maybe a new rack............ light weights need not apply...
I love it! Would definitely need a new rack for that though. I would need the 24x18 and that thing weighs about 150lbs so the top shelf would have over 218lbs on it. It would crush whatever it fell on including the porcelain tile floor! :o That thing is awesome though.
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I may try to do a comparison, but that table is heavy with that TNT platter and I hate fighting to get the ground wires attached behind the phono stage. :x The tonearm has two separate grounds and my anti-static brush has one too, when I try to attach the third, one of the three jump off. Times like that make me wish I had three arms...
Sounds like it may be time for the power of positive thinking, i.e. "I'm positive this really heavy and hard to move thing makes the sound SOOO much better I'm never, ever moving it." :lol:
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Years ago I built a turntable stand with a Grizzly 3" granite surface plate. I also bought the accompanying machinist stand because I had nothing substantial enough to site it on. Put a few MDF shelves on the inside to hold other gear.
Massive and rock solid, that's for sure! Great for non-sprung tables. Ended up selling it, not because I had a problem with its performance, only because I got tired of looking at the industrial nature of it in my LR.
I would not recommend this for your current rack. I think it might make it bow or sway. Not to mention, the massive weight makes it a real bitch to work with. Sonically, I think you'd be just as happy with nice thick butcher block. Nicer aestetics, too.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131208)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131206)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131207)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131210)
Lots of different stands out there. Not all look industrial nor are they expensive.
Just a thought...
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I may try to do a comparison, but that table is heavy with that TNT platter and I hate fighting to get the ground wires attached behind the phono stage. :x The tonearm has two separate grounds and my anti-static brush has one too, when I try to attach the third, one of the three jump off. Times like that make me wish I had three arms...
When you have multiple ground wires to attach in a tight space, there are some easy solutions:
(1) attach any crappy old piece of zip cord to your preamp grounding post. Call this "new wire"
(2) route new wire to a convenient location on your rack. You can make it tidy w/ some duct tape.
(3) put an alligator clip on new wire end. Also, strip off some insulation behind the clip.
(4) attach gear ground wires to this new wire end.
If gear ground wire is bare, attach an alligator to it, and clamp this to new wire bare end.
If gear ground wire terminates in a "u" connector, attach the "u" to new wire alligator clip.
In my rig I route new wire to the front of one of my shelves so it can serve double duty as a human discharge station in dry winter conditions. Touch it before anything else in the rig, no more static shocks.
Oviously, you can locate the new wire wherever you want, and the length can be whatever you need.
Your preamp's ground post should be able to accommodate this new wire, plus a coupla others.
Here's another method I use that works great if your preamp ground post has a hole in the middle -- the kindof hole that accepts bananas. Get a few of these:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=9436&gclid=CjwKEAiAmeyxBRCJxoKk7IWLl2oSJABvZjhhGXwQjuD_jjxS55ySMnZNYHhNkEbRuZ1m1Gdi_i2zWBoCRvnw_wcB
Get cheapest ones you can find, definitely not BS audiophile grade! Attach one of these to each ground wire (it will accept bare wire and U connector), then plug one into ground post. The adapters have a hole on the end to accept other bananas, so they can be "stacked". With these, several ground wires can be attached / detached to a single ground post quickly and easily.
If preamp ground post hole accepts only bare wire, I'd go with the new wire method.
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Sorry to gush, but I love this site and all the helpful people here. 8) You guys have been a tremendous help wading through this ocean of equipment and opinions. Sorry if I haven't thanked you individually and even if I did not go in the direction you pointed, I have spent time looking into it. Please don't take it personally.
Sunnydaze's last post is one that makes me go duh! I could have set that up in less time than fighting with the current setup. :duh: I don't mind an industrial look, just look at my setup (will be updated after I have time to clean things up). The machinist stand may be just what I am looking for. I want something minimal that will minimize interaction with the speakers. I was thinking the machinist rack with the 24x18x3 slab of granite for the TT and two smaller slabs to place on the floor with sorbothane under them to isolate them and placing the amp and phono stage on. :scratch:
Sounds like it may be time for the power of positive thinking, i.e. "I'm positive this really heavy and hard to move thing makes the sound SOOO much better I'm never, ever moving it." :lol:
Maybe... :icon_lol: I did order a couple Herbie products so I will have to move things around and with the ground wire suggestion from Sunnydaze, I will do a very unscientific listening test between stock shelf and the "modified" shelf with Herbies under the granite.
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Alrighty then, time to go shopping! 8)
These are the ones I got:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/18-x-24-x-3-Granite-Surface-Plate-No-Ledge/G9654
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Surface-Plate-Stand-18-x-24-/G9658
About $300 in total, and half of that is the shipping charge! If you are somewhat handy you can cheaply add some shelves in the void for phono stage and other gear. Under $400 is actually very reasonable for a nice solid 3 or 4 shelf rack. Plus, there's also some space under the bottom shelf.
You could also build a small threaded rod rack (or cut down and re-purpose your current one?), to put on the inside.
It was quite a few years ago, but if IIRC it was freight shipped to a local warehouse location, and I had to go pick it up. I guess too heavy / expensive for Fedex and UPS.
I suggest you start eating your Wheaties now! :lol:
If you go this route, I offer this info........
Once the plate is in place on the stand, it's almost impossible to get your fingers under it to lift it off again. I learned this the hard way. Only way I could get it off was by slipping a thin blade screwdriver underneath and levering it up. But be careful not to chip the edge!!
So I would put something between them to create a lil gap. Rubber bumpers, stick on felt protection discs, Herbies grunge busters, etc. To remove plate, into the gap I would slide two leather belts. Then you can lift it off using the belts -- with a friend, or solo if you eat enough Wheaties. :thumb:
As a younger man I could manage this setup, but TBH my creaking knees and achey back are glad to be rid of it. I guess if you leave things in place, not much of an issue. But I was never the sort to leave well enough alone. :roll:
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OK, here's one more. Gingko (http://www.gingkoaudio.com/). I had a perfectly wonderful Mapleshade base, but it (and my homemade turntable cover) would not fit when I added a second arm/cartridge combo for mono. I swapped it out for a Gingko combo. Yes, it was gorgeous; but I did not expect a sonic improvement. I was wrong. It looked better and sounded better. Highly recommended.
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Alrighty then, time to go shopping! 8)
These are the ones I got:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/18-x-24-x-3-Granite-Surface-Plate-No-Ledge/G9654
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Surface-Plate-Stand-18-x-24-/G9658
About $300 in total, and half of that is the shipping charge! If you are somewhat handy you can cheaply add some shelves in the void for phono stage and other gear. Under $400 is actually very reasonable for a nice solid 3 or 4 shelf rack. Plus, there's also some space under the bottom shelf.
You could also build a small threaded rod rack (or cut down and re-purpose your current one?), to put on the inside.
It was quite a few years ago, but if IIRC it was freight shipped to a local warehouse location, and I had to go pick it up. I guess too heavy / expensive for Fedex and UPS.
I suggest you start eating your Wheaties now! :lol:
If you go this route, I offer this info........
Once the plate is in place on the stand, it's almost impossible to get your fingers under it to lift it off again. I learned this the hard way. Only way I could get it off was by slipping a thin blade screwdriver underneath and levering it up. But be careful not to chip the edge!!
So I would put something between them to create a lil gap. Rubber bumpers, stick on felt protection discs, Herbies grunge busters, etc. To remove plate, into the gap I would slide two leather belts. Then you can lift it off using the belts -- with a friend, or solo if you eat enough Wheaties. :thumb:
As a younger man I could manage this setup, but TBH my creaking knees and achey back are glad to be rid of it. I guess if you leave things in place, not much of an issue. But I was never the sort to leave well enough alone. :roll:
No shopping yet. :nono: I need to get through Christmas and build up a bit of audio funds again first. I had a little extra since I didn't get the cartridge due to damage and put some of that toward the Herbies. But those tips are appreciated! Things I would not have thought of for sure. Amazon Prime ships those granite bases! Two day shipping on those monsters is hard to believe.
I think I know why Herbies have not posted anything in a while, they are moving office locations.
Anyone else have any experience with the Gingko Cloud platforms?
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Yeh, make your own! Cut some holes in wood, acrylic sheets, whatever. Then drop in the orbs of your choice: squash balls, tennis balls, golf balls, bowling balls. :lol:
The tweak possibilities are endless.
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Here's one more just to confuse you-double check the top plate dimensions if considering it...looks a wee bit small
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/linephono/turntable-station-audio-furniture-solution
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/05/49/190549a8cc818b4d86c6f903503a0591.jpg)