The Truth About Mega Price Loudspeakers

FullRangeMan · « **on:** 22 Jul 2012, 09:50 pm »

Not sure where to post it. Recently found this link in other Forum, I thought you guys would like look these prices, Polymer Audio call my attention.

As expected Hi-End multi-ways loudspeakers costing in excess plus 20,000 dolars, use cheap drivers, which cost few dolars for a pair of floor standing loudspeakers.
http://www.polymeraudio.com/value.html
Example:
Peak Consult Zoltan - MRSP 34,995/pair
Tweeter - ScanSpeak Soft Dome with SD-2 magnet - approximately $200
Midrange - AudioTechnology 5" midrange - approximately $275
Woofer - AudioTechnology 7” woofer - approximately $500 each x 2
Total cost of drivers per pair = $2950

Joseph Audio Pearl - MRSP 23,500/pair
Tweeter – Seas Millennium - approximately $185
Midrange – Seas Excel 7” Magnesium Cone w/Copper Phase Plug - approximately $165
Woofer – Seas Excel 8” Magnesium Cone w/Copper Phase Plug – approximately $190 x 2
Total cost of drivers per pair = $1460

Wilson Audio Watt Puppy - MSRP 27,900/pair
Tweeter – Focal Tioxid Dome - approximately $100
Midrange - Scan Speak Carbon Fiber 6.5” – approximately $150
Woofers – Dynaudio 9” (21W-54)* - approximately $150 each x 2
Total cost of drivers per pair = $1100
*(Dynaudio no longer supplies drivers to the loudspeaker industry; however, they continue to supply a few manufacturers with whom they had a previous relationship)

Eggleston Works Andra 2 - MSRP 19,500/pair
Tweeter – Dyaudio Esotar – approximately $325
Midrange – Morel 6” MW166 - approximately $105 each x 2
Woofer – Dynaudio 12” – approximately $200 each x 2
Total cost of drivers per pair = $1870

Avalon Eidolon Vision - MSRP 23,950/pair
Tweeter – Accuton 1” C12 Ceramic Dome – approximately $190
Midrange – Accuton 3.5” C90 Ceramic – approximately $280
Woofer – Eton 11” Hexacone – approximately $275
Total cost of drivers per pair = $1490

Verity Audio Sarastro - MSRP 29,995/pair
Tweeter – Raven R1 – approximately $250
Midrange – AudioTechnology 6” midrange – approximately $390
Woofer – AudioTechnology 11” woofer – approximately $550
Total cost of drivers per pair = $2380

playntheblues · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 10:10 pm »

Wow that is and all out assault, I will keep it short as to not inflame. Please keep in mind R & D, cabinets overhead labor and the list goes on.

I also like to get as much bang for the buck as possible, possibly more than most. But I have seen a lot of companies go out of business due to lack of funds. When you run your own business there are a lot of Un for seens!

sts9fan · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 10:11 pm »

This just in...companies do not sell their product at cost!!

srb · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 10:20 pm »

That driver cost analysis is brought to you by Polymer Audio Research Co. to compare their Polymer Logic to the competition.

They say their Polymer Logic $24,990 MSRP speaker pair contains $27,940 worth of drivers. Each speaker contains 1 x Supravox TG1 tweeter @ $430, 2 x proprietary woofers @ $595 ea. and 1 x Thiel & Partner Diamond Code Midrange @ $12,350 ea.

Say what? $12,350 for a midrange driver? I'm not buying it. I'm not convinced that their value is much better than any other Internet Direct marketed speaker. In the end, it comes down to how does their $25K speaker sound compared to another $25K speaker?

Steve

doorman · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 10:27 pm »

Really?? You don't mean some people are paying "too much" for audio components--
Well, I've learned something today!

don

Don_S · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 10:37 pm »

I have seen estimates on the value of the elements in a human body. They range from $5-$2000. I am trying to say it isn't what you start with. Its what you do with it.

That said, I still cringe at >$30K monitors etc. My car did not cost that much (including tax, license, and long-term care policy).

Tyson · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 10:38 pm »

You can get a killer, killer speaker, if you build them yourself. But, having built some myself, I have to say that doing it for a living would suck and I'd charge a hell of a lot just to make the cabinets. It's not easy or fun to do.

Of course fit and finish are things that you are also paying a lot for. To get speakers up to the level of fine furniture is not cheap or easy either.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 10:49 pm »

Cabinets and crossovers are a old and well know technology, the R&D cost are minimal.
All these multi-ways loudspeakers are a smart way to get hi profits, for me Hi-End means Hi-Prices.

Most sweet sound paper cone fullrange drivers cost under 200 dolars each, as B200,MarkAudio etc... and the cabinets plans are free at the manufacturer site.
But some needs to own a famous luxury brand in the living room to impress the friends.

konut · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:01 pm »

Air is free, but not on the moon.

jackman · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:16 pm »

If these mega-buck speaker companies were making so much money, why have so many gone out of business and why are others just squeeking by? I suspect you are underestimating the cost of running a high end audio company.

The market will ultimately determine what producers can charge. There are lots of mid tier manufacturers who use exotic drivers and don't get good sound. Their speakers are relatively inexpensive. Does that make them a bargain?

medium jim · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:19 pm »

Not many make their own drivers....but what a serious markup....

Jim

PRELUDE · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:23 pm »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 22 Jul 2012, 10:49 pm

Cabinets and crossovers are a old and well know technology, the R&D cost are minimal.
All these multi-ways loudspeakers are a smart way to get hi profits, for me Hi-End means Hi-Prices.

Most sweet sound paper cone fullrange drivers cost under 200 dolars each, as B200,MarkAudio etc... and the cabinets plans are free at the manufacturer site.
But some needs to own a famous luxury brand in the living room to impress the friends.

Could you please give us a list that How much would you think each of this speakers should cost that would be fair price in your own opinion?Then I might give you an idea.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:29 pm »

Speaker makers are free to charge whatever the market will bear. Keep in mind one also pays for the designer’s intellectual property (IP) as well as materials. Check out the price deltas for speakers between any paper cone driver and a SEAS Excel Magnesium driver, and you see that reflected in spades.

For a slightly different example, take a look at any Class D amp compared to a Pass Labs unit, and the proportion of costs between materials and IP is skewed towards IP for Class D. Just the way the fortune cookie crumbles.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:34 pm »

Quote from: PRELUDE on 22 Jul 2012, 11:23 pm

Could you please give us a list that How much would you think each of this speakers should cost that would be fair price in your own opinion?Then I might give you an idea.

What I had to inform is only the Gilmore Audio case, a Carver Amazing clone 60inches ribbon, it retail for 20K dolars/pair at the dealers shops, but after change to site/factory direct the price drop to under $13K.

playntheblues · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:39 pm »

Please don't tell me that surprise's you. You almost are starting to sound like you don't understand retail. Do you know how cheap a cow is per pound opposed to a steak?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:43 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 22 Jul 2012, 11:16 pm

If these mega-buck speaker companies were making so much money, why have so many gone out of business and why are others just squeeking by? I suspect you are underestimating the cost of running a high end audio company.

The market will ultimately determine what producers can charge. There are lots of mid tier manufacturers who use exotic drivers and don't get good sound. Their speakers are relatively inexpensive. Does that make them a bargain?

I disregard any manufactured speakers, even more two and three ways speakers, as I like to buy a fullrange driver and do the cabinet myself.
Crossovers and tweeters are really a BS to the music.

Doublej · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:49 pm »

Using this logic your personal markup is likely enormous. How much food do you eat in a day vs. how much do you get paid or charge for your services on a daily basis?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Jul 2012, 11:59 pm »

Quote from: playntheblues on 22 Jul 2012, 11:39 pm

Please don't tell me that surprise's you. You almost are starting to sound like you don't understand retail. Do you know how cheap a cow is per pound opposed to a steak?

Who needs a dealer when the factory had email and Fedex delivery at my door, a dealer is the middleman.
A great loudspeaker not need to be expensive, one must atain to fullrange crossoverless to good sound.
Woofers, tweeters and crossovers are scamming, I hate it all.

playntheblues · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jul 2012, 12:00 am »

WTF are you talking about? How much can you eat.......what? U compare drivers to finished speakers, I compared a Cow and a steak. Would you understand it better if we compared the cost of wood versus a finished table? Come on, quit trying to argue, and try to understand.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jul 2012, 12:04 am »

The manufacturers aren't making all that money. There has been no accounting for the manufacturer wholesaling their speaker to a retailer who then charges the prices stated in the OP. Deduct approx. 40% to get to what the manufacturer actually gets for a pair. Having heard lots of speakers I would have to guess that the cabinet is 70-80% of the speakers sound, maybe more. Why should that cabinet be free?

FRM, you'll save a lot more money if you start designing and building your own cartridges, tonearms, turntables, interconnects, digital sources, preamps, tubes, amps, and speaker cables. Why just build your own speaker cabinets? You're wasting so much money!