[JLM]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/buchardt-anniversary-10-measurements-and-review.50577/

I have the A500SE (with a second rear facing Purifi driver).  Seems to me that it takes care of most of the high output/distortion complaints.  My room is not large, I listen 2m away, and I normally don't listen at high spl's so high output is not an issue for me.  So for me the Buchardt active monitors are ideal (solid design/drivers/sound).

Buchardt is developing a WISA (wireless connection format to active loudspeakers) compatible subwoofer, to take care of the high output/distortion issue and is cooperation with Primare is introducing the SC15 Mk2, a greatly improved alternative to the cheap little hub (wireless streamer, pre-amp, room EQ, WISA transmitter) that they gave away with their active loudspeakers.  Existing owners of their active loudspeakers can get the SC15 Mk2 at a significant discount. 

So 10 years in Buchardt is going through growing pains with new technologies, but they're doing it right IMO. 

[newzooreview]

I've been keeping an eye on the A10 (and Dutch & Dutch 8c) as a possible next system when I settle into a new listening space. It's good to see measurements, but it's unclear what technique was used. They appear to be consistent with what Buchardt publishes, but comparing to the measurements from Erin's Audio Corner, for example, might be tricky. Erin uses a Klippel NFS, which is state of the art aside from a true anechoic facility.

1.   The reviewer seems to be unaware that the speakers have multiple tunings, and he obsesses over very loud music and the accompanying measured bass distortion. However, Buchardt provides a tuning just for this case, The S400 Simulation: "Here we are simulating the bass roll off of the S400. This gives a well-rounded speaker that can play louder and cleaner, while still providing a satisfying amount of bass output. Perfect for people that often play loud." This rolls off the bass just as the viewer suggests he might prefer.

2.   The speaker's default tuning is designed for textbook Toole-preferred, in-room frequency response at normal listening levels in a small to medium room. That covers a pretty wide range of potential customers. The reviews so far have been especially impressed with the tone, texture, and quantity of bass, finding it in balance with the mids and highs and not distorted or bloated or muffled/thumpy. I have not heard the speaker, and the reviewer does not compare the measurements to audible performance. My recollection is that Toole found that people are much less sensitive to distortion in the lower bass compared to the mids and highs.

3.   The reviewer also seems to be unaware that the Buchardt app has room correction (via iPhone or a microphone that Buchardt sells) and parametric EQ that can be used in conjunction with the built-in tunings. These require the Platin or Primare hub which are sold as a bundle by Buchardt. It makes no sense to buy the speakers without the paired hub, so at least acknowledging the typical configuration (if not actually testing it) would have been good. The room will exert a significant influence on bass quality, and having DSP correction for room-induced bass peaks is a real advantage, especially when the review is so focused on the bass.

4.   Buchardt has stated they are going to make a subwoofer, and they have also provided a ready-made tuning, "High pass 6o Hz," for a subwoofer to be used: "For those that want less bass, or pair with subwoofers. It's recommended to try out in smaller rooms or acoustically challenging rooms. Reduced bass also gives more “room” for the rest of the frequencies to be more pronounced, which some might just like in general. A side benefit of having less bass, is that you reduce the THD within the bass frequencies due to the woofers mechanically not moving as much. The 60hz drop is 4. order"

With the Primare hub, the A10 can run Roon directly from ethernet with no WiFi in the signal path. The Dutch & Dutch 8c can better that by running an ethernet cable to each speaker. Each Dutch & Dutch 8c speaker is a Roon endpoint, so there is no wireless transmission via WiSA. I like the idea of the 8c, but if the A10 comes close for about half the price, that’s a consideration.

[zybar]

I would love to hear the A10’s and I almost bought a pair to directly compare to the 8Cs.

I love the approach they are taking and the components they are using.

If they are half as good as the 8Cs, they would be an absolute steal!

George

[JLM]

The Dutch & Dutch 8C is a remarkable product but far beyond what I'd spend.  I'm saddened that the A500 are currently sold out and the A500SE was a limited run, as the baby competitor to the 8C. 

I believe the audio science review used the Kippel. 

Yes, unbelievable that the reviewer wasn't aware of the "Master Tunings", although it would add significantly to his work load to review all of them.  And unbelievable that he didn't try the room EQ (didn't come with a hub?).

I'm a big fan of Toole.

Overall the A10 would seem to be much simpler to setup than the 8C.

[zybar]

The Dutch & Dutch 8C is a remarkable product but far beyond what I'd spend.  I'm saddened that the A500 are currently sold out and the A500SE was a limited run, as the baby competitor to the 8C. 

I believe the audio science review used the Kippel. 

Yes, unbelievable that the reviewer wasn't aware of the "Master Tunings", although it would add significantly to his work load to review all of them.  And unbelievable that he didn't try the room EQ (didn't come with a hub?).

I'm a big fan of Toole.

Overall the A10 would seem to be much simpler to setup than the 8C.

The 8C was pretty easy to set up and get going.  That said, I am about to move my speakers to the long wall and I’ll see if it is as easy as I think it is.     

As you might expect at the 8C price point, the dealer and vendor experience was outstanding!

Assuming you allow it, they will remote into your setup and either walk you through everything or actually do it for you!

George

[JLM]

I'm a computer dummy, had a hard time setting up my A500SE's (with the cheap tiny hub).  Not sure how to "remote".  Only U.S. distributor is 800 miles away.

[newzooreview]

Dutch & Dutch use TeamViewer to work with the setup software on your computer, if I recall correctly. It's a download and click to install. You can delete TeamViewer once they are done. I assume they install REW and ask you to move a mic to different positions as they run frequency sweeps.

The Buchardt A10s are currently available with the Primare SC15 Mk II, which is a significantly nicer streaming hub than the plastic Platin. The SC15 lets you remove the antennae, shut off WiFi, and connect directly to Ethernet. It is a Roon endpoint and can also directly stream Qobuz (or Tidal and others). It has a DSP to handle the Buchardt room correction for bass and parametric EQ, if desired. Those would both work in addition to the Master Tunings installed in the speakers themselves.

Mads Buchardt did respond to the typically confused and aggressive discussion on Audio "Science" Review. A couple of people there did point out the deficiencies in the review and the reviewer also chimed in diplomatically.

The Primare SC15 Mk II Hub (https://primare.net/product/sc15-prisma-preamplifier-and-network-player/):

[JLM]

Just got notified that my Primare SC15 Mk2 is scheduled to be delivered on January 2nd!!

[zybar]

Dutch & Dutch use TeamViewer to work with the setup software on your computer, if I recall correctly. It's a download and click to install. You can delete TeamViewer once they are done. I assume they install REW and ask you to move a mic to different positions as they run frequency sweeps.

You are mostly correct Newzooreview...I installed REW (all by myself).      

All kidding aside, it was super easy, safe, and secure.

Dutch and Dutch even keeps a backup of my settings in case I do something silly or something very unexpected happens.

With Christmas now in the rearview mirror, I will try this weekend to get a thread going on the 8C's so I can stop intruding on this one.

George

[zybar]

Just got notified that my Primare SC15 Mk2 is scheduled to be delivered on January 2nd!!

Great news!

I hope it is a big upgrade for you.

George

[gary]

I am moving to Switzerland in January, will be in an apartment so will have to do my listening at quiet levels and after a lot of research I've decided to go with the A10's. Mads told me the have several customers using the same Naim Uniti Atom HE that I already have with these speakers, and that they sound great together. Not wireless, but the speakers would have to be plugged in anyway so it won't make much of a difference. Hopefully I'll get them right about the time I move into my permanent apartment in February and I'll definitely post my thoughts here.

Anyone have any pics of Buchardt speakers in their own rooms? I'm not sure which finish to go with, I wish they would put some more pictures up. Tending towards the white ones but pretty much all of them look great from what I can tell.

gary

[zybar]

I personally like Walnut…but I am basing that on website pics.

George

[Rocket]

Hi,

What really interests me with the Buchard A10's is the use of the purifi drivers. My Bepure 2's sound so wonderful with these drivers. If I hadn't already invested so much in my amplifiers Ampzilla mono blocks and what I now know of the purifi drivers I'd easily buy a pair. I'm fully invested in my system so no point now .

I haven't sound any information about the Dutch and Dutch 8c's on their website i.e. drivers, amps etc. A local dealer has a pair on demonstration so I might have a quick listen.

Cheers Rod

[gary]

I personally like Walnut…but I am basing that on website pics.

George

There's a good chance I'll go with the walnut, possibly ash. I feel like all the other mid century furniture I get will be white or oak so I need some contrast 

gary

[Mark Korda]

Hi, I wonder if the Buchardt A-10 builders knew there was a famous smaller Dynaco speaker the A-10 ?Not that there would a copyright issue being they were on the market so many years ago but for originality with a new speaker system entering a crowded field....Mark Korda

[newzooreview]

March Audio makes a passive bookshelf speaker with a Purifi mid-woofer and two Purifi passive radiators, sort of a passive version of the Buchardt A10. I think the DSP makes the A10 more versatile and cost effective, but the March Audio might be interesting for folks who want to use their existing amp, preamp, DAC, etc. It's only $4,200.

https://marchaudio.com/product/sointuva-awg-stand-mount-speaker/

[DavidS]

the A10s are advertised as wireless.  I have desktop speakers that have wireless capability but sure sound a lot better with wired connections.  Anyone with any idea how wireless technology is with these - or will owners interested in best sound still be wiring them up (from dac or preamp to rcas into speakers and cable between them). 

[newzooreview]

Running wireless with the A10 is the pure digital path. The A10s use the WiSA wireless standard, which transmits at 96 kHz/24 bits. It is nothing like Bluetooth, which is the typical wireless standard used in consumer loudspeakers.

"The Buchardt Anniversary 10 (A10) loudspeaker is an active speaker that incorporates a digital amplifier, also known as a PowerDAC, in its design. This amplifier is similar in topology to those used by Lyngdorf, another Danish audio company. The signal travels through the amplifier in the digital domain and is converted from PCM to PWM just before the output stage. The PWM signal is then used to switch the output devices, usually MOSFETs, directly. This process eliminates the need for an off-the-shelf DAC chip. The A10's digital amplifier provides 200 watts RMS, with 150 watts dedicated to the Purifi mid-bass driver and 50 watts to the tweeter." [Summarized by ChatGPT.]

In his review, Steve Huff tried it with his Pass Labs preamp going via XLR to the A10, and he preferred the purely digital, e.g. wireless, input via the Platin Hub. This is likely because the XLR input is converted to digital via a 192/24 ADC and then goes into the DSP and DACamp (PowerDAC).

Switching from Class D (an analog amp) to a digital amp is one of the improvements Buchardt claims in the A10 design. In addition to claimed sonic benefits, Buchardt states in the technical notes at the bottom of the A10 product page that "One of the things we were also looking at improving with the A10 was efficiency, heat and noise. You can expect a speaker that does not draw much power at [average] SPL levels or in idle. It also stays cool and generate very little noise." The A500 rear plate was reputed to run very warm/hot, and I have not seen reports that the A10 has any heat issues.

[DavidS]

thanks NewZoo - really is a game changer if it plays in same ball park as my old passive gear - have about 15-20K wrapped up in speakers, amps, preamp, dac, streamer, cables.  Will continue to read with interest what gets posted here but could be a new years lose a ton of weight kind of resolution (plus I have such a crappy listening room tired of beating myself up trying tweaks to get an ever diminishing improvement in sound).

[newzooreview]

Well, that's the real question. The reviews so far have been somewhat inept. Guttenberg just plugged them in via XLR, so the significant advantage of keeping things digital was lost. He also explicitly says he doesn't like active speakers, much less fully digital and DSP-controlled ones. Steve Huff is prone to hyperbole but did at least use them as intended via the Platin Hub.

Nobody has tried them with the Pimare SC15 MkII, which just started shipping. The SC15 works as a Roon endpoint connected via Ethernet, eliminating WiFi and the abysmal performance of Chromecast and Airplay.  The SC15 also has a better power supply than the Platin Hub and higher quality parts and materials overall.

The other challenge is that reviewers tend to treat the A10 as a bass gimmick speaker. They give the impression that it's mainly interesting because "big bass, small speaker, oooh!" The fact that they are wireless also gets them pigeonholed as a "lifestyle" speaker.

So, I also look forward to reviews and user feedback that uses them as designed, with the optimal input signal path, and treated as an audiophile speaker.