8" Single Servo Sub

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rythmik

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #80 on: 5 Dec 2013, 02:45 pm »
@jtwrace:  We don't have a plan to change A370 to use Hypex module. One of our product consideration is never retire a product so that the old ones out there can be serviced. In addition, there is really no advantage of Ucd vs the power amp module we use in A370 except Ucd is more compact and the amp can be made smaller.

@rak313:  I will provide T/S parameters in this thread soon.  I know a lot of members need that to gauge the driver. But for me, the more important issue is if the driver and amplifier pair make the best use of each other.  So my response to T/S parameters are always slower.

These models are best used for crossover above 100hz. If customer does not need that, a regular SW12-4 will work just fine (may even be cheaper).  The applications I can think of are: 1) lifestyle sound system. This will be a killer substitute with much better bass sound. 2) Esoteric drivers with limited low end extension, such as ribbon, full range, dynamic, and others... The standard max crossover is 200hz. But I think it can be push to 250hz if we consider baffle step function that emphasize a bit above 100hz if the sub is placed off the wall. 

@sts9fan:  Yes. These will be products in both kit form and finished subs.  I am arranging air ship and they should arrive later next week.


srb

Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #81 on: 5 Dec 2013, 04:15 pm »
In addition, there is really no advantage of Ucd vs the power amp module we use in A370 except Ucd is more compact and the amp can be made smaller.

The UCD (or any Class D) amp is more efficient so there would be less wasted heat generated internally in the enclosure.

Steve

jtwrace

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #82 on: 5 Dec 2013, 04:26 pm »
@jtwrace:  We don't have a plan to change A370 to use Hypex module. One of our product consideration is never retire a product so that the old ones out there can be serviced. In addition, there is really no advantage of Ucd vs the power amp module we use in A370 except Ucd is more compact and the amp can be made smaller.
OK.    :(   Mine still work great though!   :green:

rythmik

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #83 on: 5 Dec 2013, 06:25 pm »
The UCD (or any Class D) amp is more efficient so there would be less wasted heat generated internally in the enclosure.

Steve

That is same as compact (or energy density if you want to call it).  But all class D has its own undesirable features. For instance, some of them are marginally stable (from feedback point of view). For instance, our A370 does not have any relay or switches to shutdown the power amp first when you unplug the power cord. Still, it is quiet (no thump or other noise). What does that indicate? It is a design with sufficient phase margin that even during power down phase when certain part of the circuit begins to have narrower and narrower bandwidth, the feedback is still stable with no oscillation. There are quite a few amps out there, that without any extra switches to shutdown the amp before power down, there will be a thump noise. That is an indication that there is insufficient phase margin during that power-down phase. Things like these are supposed to be trade secrets and they are not openly discussed. So what is the scary part of insufficient phase margin in general?  As time goes by, the margin can get worse and worse as the components aging and one day, you know what.  Here I will just touch the surface. There are more ....

jtwrace

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #84 on: 5 Dec 2013, 06:46 pm »
So, when does Rythmik design and build their own Class D amp?

rak313

Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #85 on: 6 Dec 2013, 06:02 am »

[snip]

@rak313:  I will provide T/S parameters in this thread soon.  I know a lot of members need that to gauge the driver. But for me, the more important issue is if the driver and amplifier pair make the best use of each other.  So my response to T/S parameters are always slower.

These models are best used for crossover above 100hz. If customer does not need that, a regular SW12-4 will work just fine (may even be cheaper).  The applications I can think of are: 1) lifestyle sound system. This will be a killer substitute with much better bass sound. 2) Esoteric drivers with limited low end extension, such as ribbon, full range, dynamic, and others... The standard max crossover is 200hz. But I think it can be push to 250hz if we consider baffle step function that emphasize a bit above 100hz if the sub is placed off the wall. 
'

I'm looking for great sound with compact form factor and high WAF.   

I'm thinking of 4 (one for each corner) in a 3000 sq ft room (of the sealed dual 8" in a 12"x14"x20" box you showed). This should sound great, even out the room - yet each sub would be small, unobtrusive, and lightweight. 

Yes, cost may be a bit higher than a set of 4 of the sealed 12-04s but not by much. 



jtwrace

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #86 on: 6 Dec 2013, 12:06 pm »
'

I'm looking for great sound with compact form factor and high WAF.   

I'm thinking of 4 (one for each corner) in a 3000 sq ft room (of the sealed dual 8" in a 12"x14"x20" box you showed). This should sound great, even out the room - yet each sub would be small, unobtrusive, and lightweight. 

Yes, cost may be a bit higher than a set of 4 of the sealed 12-04s but not by much.
You will need way more than (4) 8" subs for a 3,000 sq ft room. 

rythmik

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #87 on: 6 Dec 2013, 03:25 pm »
You will need way more than (4) 8" subs for a 3,000 sq ft room.

If it is 8x  8" drivers, the output will be 6db higher than 4x 8".  It is more like the increase rate from a 12" diameter to a 16" diameter in terms of driver size.

BTW, the air-ship is on the way.  I should receive them mid next week. 

jtwrace

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #88 on: 6 Dec 2013, 03:28 pm »
If it is 8x  8" drivers, the output will be 6db higher than 4x 8".  It is more like the increase rate from a 12" diameter to a 16" diameter in terms of driver size.

BTW, the air-ship is on the way.  I should receive them mid next week.
Right. 


I took this as (1) 8" driver per corner.   :dunno:


'I'm thinking of 4 (one for each corner) in a 3000 sq ft room (of the sealed dual 8" in a 12"x14"x20" box you showed).   

mlundy57

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #89 on: 6 Dec 2013, 04:28 pm »
You will need way more than (4) 8" subs for a 3,000 sq ft room.

That all depends on how much bass you are after and your listening needs. I am quite happy with 1 Rythmik F12, not corner loaded,  in a 4,000 cu. ft. room. But then the max SPL I care for (or that my wife will tolerate) is about 90dB at 3 meters.

Mike
« Last Edit: 6 Dec 2013, 06:00 pm by mlundy57 »

skalos

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #90 on: 6 Dec 2013, 05:25 pm »
Question, 3,000 and 4,000 square foot rooms?  Do you mean cubic foot rooms? a square room 60 feet for each wall is huge (3,600 sq ft.) I think would be difficult to fill with 1 12" subwoofer.

rajacat

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #91 on: 6 Dec 2013, 05:51 pm »
It should be cubic feet.

jtwrace

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #92 on: 6 Dec 2013, 05:55 pm »
That all depends on how much bass you are after and your listening needs. I am quite happy with 1 Rythmik F12, not corner loaded,  in a 4,000 sq. ft. room. But then the max SPL I care for (or that my wife will tolerate) is about 90dB at 3 meters.

Mike
Sorry but one 12" driver will not work for a 4,000 sq ft room.   :duh:

mlundy57

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #93 on: 6 Dec 2013, 05:59 pm »
Question, 3,000 and 4,000 square foot rooms?  Do you mean cubic foot rooms? a square room 60 feet for each wall is huge (3,600 sq ft.) I think would be difficult to fill with 1 12" subwoofer.

Oops That would be cu ft (20x25x8) :oops:

AJinFLA

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #94 on: 6 Dec 2013, 06:30 pm »
BTW, the air-ship is on the way.
Of the 8" specific/smaller servo amps?  :o

Danny Richie

Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #95 on: 6 Dec 2013, 06:32 pm »
Of the 8" specific/smaller servo amps?  :o

Yes, finally...

mlundy57

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #96 on: 6 Dec 2013, 07:46 pm »
So does that mean our Christmas present is going to be a look at the new designs ? :singing:

Mike

AJinFLA

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Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #97 on: 6 Dec 2013, 09:53 pm »
Yes, finally...

Hmmm, had pretty much given up on this.....may have to revisit

rak313

Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #98 on: 6 Dec 2013, 10:04 pm »
You will need way more than (4) 8" subs for a 3,000 sq ft room.

I'm thinking 4 by dual 8" in each box, so 8 x 8" drivers total.  But if that is not enough - just add a few more.  What I like about dual 8" drivers is the compact form factor.   

I realize the 12"x14"x20" box with dual 8" drivers (using the HX580 amp - 2 x 300W) will have less output than a single 12-04 using the A370 amp, and has the same volume box.  I'm not sure how much different in weight it will be, but i just like the compact footprint.

I also have been thinking (this idea probably has a problem) of a sealed 14" x 14" x 36" "subwoofer speaker stand" that would have 4x 8" drivers and dual Hx580 amps.  The drivers would be 2 sets of dual apposed - to cancel the motion of the box wanting to mover across the floor.

The 4 x 8" drivers - with 1200W total - should equal the output of a sealed 15" .

I would then put my surround speakers on these "stands" using blue-tac or equivalent.  Since I already use speaker stands for the surrounds that these new "subwoofer stands" would replace - there is no additional uglyness (wife term) added to the room.



rak313

Re: 8" Single Servo Sub
« Reply #99 on: 6 Dec 2013, 10:09 pm »
It should be cubic feet.

Sorry - My bad - cu ft not sq ft, and actually closer to 3500 cu ft.