AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => NuForce => Topic started by: rustydoglim on 21 Sep 2006, 01:57 am
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The Oppo Digital universal player's default factory setting does not maximize the audio performance.
The factory default setting of the HDMI audio source is set to “Multi-channel" which uses the internal DSP. When playing a redbook (i.e. audio) CD, the output is no longer the original as recorded in the CD tracks. This default setting makes it the most compatible and most likely to produce reasonable audio quality with TV’s speakers as configured by most consumers.
To determine if the DSP may be corrupting your digital audio, try to vary the volume control on the Oppo remote. If the volume changes, then you know the audio is being processed.
Please go to "Setup" and configure the Oppo player:
“HDMI Audio” set to “SPDIF” and “SPDIF Output” set to “Raw”.
When playing back using Oppo's analog output go to "Setup" and configure the audio speaker sub-menu:
(1) use Front Right/Left output
(2) Speaker settings: Front and Right speakers set to ‘Large’ (Center, Subwoofer, and Surrounds set to ‘Off’ of course).
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That was a good post.
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Thanks Jason. That was helpful.
I have the 971H. What is the best audio setting when watching movie using preamp processor.
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jason, i want to nail down one more time the setup positions for optimum 2-channel output from the oppo-hd universal player which i purchased a few months ago..i really like it...i am using the analog left/right front plugged into my preamp running the ref. 9 nuforce units....i followed your advice about setting the hdmi to spdif and the spdif to raw..There is an 'off' option on the audio setup for hdmi also....(or does this just make a difference with digital out of the player?)....I repeat, i am using analog out only...i have set the speaker setting mixdown to left/right....(and not stereo)....anyway....i am unable to bypass the volume control on the player remote so i can do the least amount of processing....can you first tell me what spdif means? what does raw mean?.....i noticed that whenever i followed your advice with these settings, it automatically defaulted the sample rate to 48khz and i wasn't able to adjust it to 192khz....maybe 48khz is best anyway...i am not sure..the volume control still worked on the remote (which like i said would like to bypass)...i am interested in redbook since i just have relatively few sacd discs...can we go over this one more time..? thanks, robert.
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interesting...does this apply only to analog output or for use with dacs as well...
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interesting...does this apply only to analog output or for use with dacs as well...
I was about to ask the same question.
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interesting...does this apply only to analog output or for use with dacs as well...
I can chime in here as I have quite a bit of experience with the Oppo in this regard. First I can confirm that this applies to the digital out as well. First you may not be able to 'bypass' volume control and thus the Oppo signal adjustments via the analog outputs. Jason was referring to digital output configuration, which is SPDIF -- the digital audio output protocol. For analog, you just want to 'minimize' the signal mods made by the Oppo using the last 2 suggestions from Jason, but likely not eliminating all mods to the original signal. You get great sound out the analog this way, trust me. I run my SACD's through these analog outputs, and it sounds great. More on digital output configurations I experimented with below, with my outboard DAC:
The "PCM" output is a form a direct digital output that will go out through the Toslink and the Coax digital out on the 970HD. In the audio setup section of the on-screen Oppo config, you will see this. PCM 192 is the highest setting. According to Oppo if you set it here, it will automatically downsample, to the lower sampling rates until it gets a signal lock at the highest available sample. But by going "RAW" you effectively disable this feature, as this will send true un-touched digital stream to the digital output. I have this digital out going straight to an external CIAudio DAC-2 in this regard. So in summary, yes it applies to the digital outs as well. In fact, if you have digital output set to PCM instead of RAW, then regardless of what other settings you have adjusted or turned off, your signal is being processed by the Oppo, it is not the original digital signal. You can find the RAW setting value in the
When playing SACD's I found that I had to use the analog front L/R outputs because the DAC doesn't convert the signal. According to Oppo, it converts the DSD signal to PCM then to analog. I could not get the PCM digital signal through digital out to my DAC, so I actually have two sets of outputs simulatenously connected out of the Oppo, one analog set, and one coax digital (spdif)
This works fine. I just switch to a different input on my P-8 to listen to SACD's and DVD's and another for listening to redbook via my outboard DAC. Its a nice way to go, to avoid cable swapping all the time.
I turn HDMI audio OFF because most of my listening is 2-channel, through my outboard DAC. I don't see the point of sending PCM audio down the HDMI cable to my HDTV only to route it back again through the DAC.
Most stereo DACs don't convert home theater 5.1 surround sound / Dolby DTS raw digital signals either. So its best to separate your 2-channel audio stream from your DVD HDMI if 2-channel audio optimization is your goal. So what this means is, you can't route a RAW digital signal from a standard DVD to a stereo DAC. It won't know what to do with the signal. I've tried it.
I should now preface that I am not a big surround sound person, I'm a 2-channel purist. I do not use a surround sound decoder, or any of that. That is why audio over HDMI is not necessary for me. I use HDMI only for the video signal, for watching DVDs. I route the audio from the DVD straight out the analog L/R front to my P-8. Therefore I leave HDMI audio set to OFF. If you left it on, then essentially are saying "send the digital audio signal to the TV, and then the TV will convert it to analog. I'd prefer to rely on the Oppo DAC in that case, versus an HDTV's audio DAC for 2-channel purposes only of course.
So in summary for 2-channel systems:
redbook CDs:
Use digital out, set SPDIF to RAW on Oppo 970HD
Coax is my preference output to an external DAC
If you don't have an external DAC in 2-channel then use front L/R (not mixed) all other speaker channels off.
SACD: ditto, via analog outputs
DVD w/ 2channel audio: HDMI for video, and audio out via analog outputs used for SACD for convenience of setup. [ Alternatively you can enable PCM 192 for this setup and get digital output to an external DAC, but its a pain to keep changing this Oppo config just to play a DVD, I like the analog outs for DVD in 2-channel, Oppo does a fine job there ]
DVD w/ surround sound systems: Use HDMI for video and audio with your surround decoder/receiver.
Ok, back to my SACD listening session!
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jason, i want to nail down one more time the setup positions for optimum 2-channel output from the oppo-hd universal player which i purchased a few months ago..i really like it...i am using the analog left/right front plugged into my preamp running the ref. 9 nuforce units....i followed your advice about setting the hdmi to spdif and the spdif to raw..There is an 'off' option on the audio setup for hdmi also....(or does this just make a difference with digital out of the player?)....
The digital setup is only applicable to the digital output, no effect to the analog out.
I repeat, i am using analog out only...i have set the speaker setting mixdown to left/right....(and not stereo)....anyway....i am unable to bypass the volume control on the player remote so i can do the least amount of processing....
Not possible to bypass the built-in digital volume control, just maximize the volume using the remote.
can you first tell me what spdif means? what does raw mean?.....i noticed that whenever i followed your advice with these settings, it automatically defaulted the sample rate to 48khz and i wasn't able to adjust it to 192khz....maybe 48khz is best anyway...i am not sure..the volume control still worked on the remote (which like i said would like to bypass)...i am interested in redbook since i just have relatively few sacd discs...can we go over this one more time..? thanks, robert.
RAW = means the digital output will pass raw digital data on the discs, be it PCM or Dolby Digital as the material calls for. Setting to 'PCM' means to force the digital output into a particular PCM mode via Oppo's internal processing. For widest compatibility, leave it at RAW. When HDMI audio is set to 'ON', the maximum sample rate is limited to 48Khz, but if you set HDMI audio to 'off', then the digital output can go up to 192Khz. Again, the above only applies to digital output.
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Excellent!
Thanks to R.J. and to Casey for the clarification. :thumb:
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Additional comment from Oppo tech people:
There are two digital audio bus in the player: SPDIF and I2S. The DAC is attached to the I2S bus and the HDMI TX is attached to both. In theory the HDMI audio setting should not affect the analog audio quality. If the HDMI TX detects that the receiving device cannot handle certain sample rate, the down-sampling is done within the HDMI TX chip, so the DAC is not affected.
Setting HDMI audio to OFF will totally eliminate the possibility of HDMI affecting analog, so there might be some merit to it. Setting LPCM rate to 192k should not matter since it only affects the SPDIF bus, which is not attached to the DAC.
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http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/oppo_dv970_e.html
I note that TNT reviewed it referencing Jason's setup comments. It's quite an interesting review but it sounded like the reviewers taste didn't match the player. The reviewer also (I suspect) did not experiment with power cords.
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We highly recommend the Oppo 970HD player with IA-7 as an entry level audiophile set. Can't go wrong with that for the money.
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The Oppo Digital universal player's default factory setting does not maximize the audio performance.
The factory default setting of the HDMI audio source is set to “Multi-channel" which uses the internal DSP. When playing a redbook (i.e. audio) CD, the output is no longer the original as recorded in the CD tracks. This default setting makes it the most compatible and most likely to produce reasonable audio quality with TV’s speakers as configured by most consumers.
To determine if the DSP may be corrupting your digital audio, try to vary the volume control on the Oppo remote. If the volume changes, then you know the audio is being processed.
Please go to "Setup" and configure the Oppo player:
“HDMI Audio” set to “SPDIF” and “SPDIF Output” set to “Raw”.
When playing back using Oppo's analog output go to "Setup" and configure the audio speaker sub-menu:
(1) use Front Right/Left output
(2) Speaker settings: Front and Right speakers set to ‘Large’ (Center, Subwoofer, and Surrounds set to ‘Off’ of course).
Hi Jason
Greetings.
I encounter this problem when I go to HDMI Audio, I only see 'Auto', 'LPCM and 'OFF'.
Would appreciate if you enlighten me what I should do. Thanks. :D
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Set HDMI Audio = Off if you are not using an HDMI receiver.
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Did by any chance anybody compared the analogue output for the new 981hd to the 970hd for cd redbook quality?
Dan
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According to Oppo, it converts the DSD signal to PCM then to analog. I could not get the PCM digital signal through digital out to my DAC, so I actually have two sets of outputs simulatenously connected out of the Oppo, one analog set, and one coax digital (spdif) (copied and pasted)
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I am not sure I understand this but if it converts the DSD to PCM then to analog for SACD's would there be any difference if you were to send the signal out via PCM to the surround processor, thus letting the internal DAC's of the processor do the conversion. My understanding is that the Oppo 970 isn't a true SACD player as it converts the DSD signal. I am just wondering if it is then worth it to acquire 6 more analog cables.
Mike
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The TNT review nails the sound that I also hear from the Oppo. You're better off getting a used MSB Daclink III with upsampling card for roughly the same price (assuming you have a transport available). Much better.
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Did by any chance anybody compared the analogue output for the new 981hd to the 970hd for cd redbook quality?
If you don't care about the 1080p, 970HD has better 2 channel anlalog output.
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I thought i might throw my 2 cents in here on the oppo digital players. On the DV-970HD you can actually disable the player's video function by the Audio Only function on the remote. :icon_surprised: which may or may not give you better sound...I was informed that on the DV-981HD does not have this functionality due to the inability tobypass the Faroudja chipset through the HDMI interface :(
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I have a '970 on its way to me...I will be using it for both audio and video playback (via analog outs), and I wanted to know if the suggested idea of not using the 'mixed' outputs (and setting L/R to large, everything else off) will give me the appropriate mix for 5.1 encoded DVDs...meaning, will audio intended for a center channel be missing if I go this route? Or will it be folded down to 2.0 even if I don't use the 'mixed' outputs?
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I would think your optimal connection for DVD/2 channel audio would be utilizing Oppo's Front L/R analog outputs (not mixed), configure the audio speaker sub-menu: downmix mode to LT/RT output and Speaker settings: Front and Right speakers set to ‘Large’ (Center, Subwoofer, and Surrounds set to ‘Off’). Setting it up in this manner would downmix your Dolby encoded discs to 2.0 only
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Ah, didn't know I could downmix to the L/R channels...thanks! :thumb:
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sorry for the confusion, however i re-read your question and i might have confused what you were asking, let me attempt to clarify this in another manner... Left/Right channels only. this mode is intended for 2 channel Dolby Pro Logic processors. If the content is encoded with Dolby pro Logic then the encoded audio will be passed to the processor for the Dolby Pro Logic processing. For stereo content the output would be stereo. For multi-channel content (5.1/7.1) only the Left and Right front channels will be reproduced....Stereo- This mode down-mixes decoded multi-channel (5.1/7.1) audio to 2 channel stereo output. For Stereo content the output to be Stereo. For Multi-Channel content the center and surrounds channels will be mixed with the front left and right channels.
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I think I got it...just to clarify:
I will be sending the signal for both music and movies to a stereo preamp/stereo speakers (2.0 only). To get the best playback for both, I should use the 'mixed' outputs and set it to 'stereo' in the settings? If I read you correctly, using the standard L/R outputs for movies encoded in 5.1 only would cut out some information. Seems like if I were just using it for music this method would be ok. Sorry for being so dense! :duh:
Thanks again for the help. 8)
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Hi Guys
I have got OPPO player for about 3 months now and quiet happy with it nevertheless a few issues I would like to post here.
First I would like to mention that I have a active setup using DEQX crossover and it does support 96KHZ signal it actually show on the menu what signal is receiving initially I thought that the LPCM rate on the OPPO player could be change like up sampling rate convector but it does not only thought HDMI which I can’t comment as I don’t have setup for it. Nevertheless when changing to PCM 48, 96,192KHZ it does not have any effects and it does show (DEQX) that receiving at 48KHZ only on all 3 option.
Other think that I would like to mention is that when playing CD’s set to RAW it does work fine. When using SACD it does work fine but it does cut the volume down to about half compare to the digital out which is a little bit of problem as I’m using 4 monoblocks single ended tube rate at 20Wats a channel. The same apply for DVD – Video playback as it automatically changes to PCM (of course) from Raw so I have again less volume to play with. Anyone has found this sort of problem? Provably not as you guys using more powerful amps. The option for me as suggested is to use a buffer stage from burson audio
That could fix the analog out only for SACD playback any thoughts?
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. Nevertheless when changing to PCM 48, 96,192KHZ it does not have any effects and it does show (DEQX) that receiving at 48KHZ only on all 3 option.
This is correct. Oppo does not do sample rate conversion (i.e. 44kHz to 96kHz), but it only set for the highest supported bit-rate, only useful with DVD-Audio and LPCM DVD soundtrack (Music recorded on DVD-Video).
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If it converts SACD to PCM internally first, then this could be out-putted to a DIY connector, yes?
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Anyone already tested the output 2 ch sound quality (for CD/SCAD) of the new Oppo DV-980H ?
In Europe, it's not possible to have 970 as it is not CE certified.
Regards.
Stef
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It is better than 970HD. Our Casey provided a little helping hand in tweaking the sound.
You can probably buy it online somewhere, even if it is not CE certified :wink:
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Has anyone tried the new Oppo?
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It is better than 970HD. Our Casey provided a little helping hand in tweaking the sound.
You can probably buy it online somewhere, even if it is not CE certified :wink:
I bought mine direct from www.oppodigital.com (http://www.oppodigital.com) . They ship internationally. For me the total price including duty was roughly £140-£150.
Good sound. Bit soft in the bass compared to more expensive players but definitely worth the money.
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Our Casey provided a little helping hand in tweaking the sound.
Where is the post ?
Regards.
Stef
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Hi,
The new Oppo 980H exceeds the performance of 970HD by all account, and also exceeded the audio performance of 981HD. 980H also has a full size IEC socket so the power cord can be upgraded.
There are special circuit and audio-grade Opamps used in 980H. The audio grade capacitors are specially custom ordered from Japan for its good sound. We help Oppo fine-tuned the circuit and advice some layout change to further improve the sonic. Oppo also enlisted another major audio equipment supplier for advice (whom they prefer to remain anonymous).
However, to get the best audio performance, go into the Setup and disable HDMI Audio. This seems to be universally applicable to all HDMI-based DVD players, (not just Oppo), by disabling the HDMI audio out the audio quality can be slightly improved.
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Hi,
The new Oppo 980H exceeds the performance of 970HD by all account, and also exceeded the audio performance of 983HD. 980H also has a full size IEC socket so the power cord can be upgraded.
There are special circuit and audio-grade Opamps used in 980H. The audio grade capacitors are specially custom ordered from Japan for its good sound. We help Oppo fine-tuned the circuit and advice some layout change to further improve the sonic. Oppo also enlisted another major audio equipment supplier for advice (whom they prefer to remain anonymous).
However, to get the best audio performance, go into the Setup and disable HDMI Audio. This seems to be universally applicable to all HDMI-based DVD players, (not just Oppo), by disabling the HDMI audio out the audio quality can be slightly improved.
Casey,
Thank you for the info! What are your thoughts on the some of the aftermarket modifications offered for the 980 (replacing capacitors and so forth). Is there any reason to do so?
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There are very good gains on modding the oppo's, however i think it comes right down to if someone feels that is worth sinking more money in the oppo in mods than the unit costs. I however am quite interested in doing so and EVS (ric schultz) www.tweakaudio.com , seems to be quite reasonable in price and seems to have the most available mods for oppos and yet keeps the prices very reasonable. One thing to mention as well, oppo has published that they will continue to recognize the warranty even with modded units :D
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Hi,
In general, the MTK chipset used in Oppo runs off a 26Mhz clock to generate other clocks, hence, modding the Oppo with superclock is of questionable benefit.
I would go for the type of reasonable mods:
1) Improving the power supply, not just increasing the size of bypass capacitor, but intelligently and strategically use the correct value for optimal speed and punch (bigger and bigger caps, imho, 'slows' down the music). If the rail voltage can be raised higher to +/- 18V, there should be a tremendous gain from factory +/- 9V.
2) Bypass the opamps with better decoupling capacitors.
2) Upgrade the output DC-blocking capacitors. There are some good caps out there that is will bring a meaningful change.
3) Minor benefit in upgrading the Opamps, perhaps to THS4032 or similar.
But very importantly, unless done tastefully and tactfully, modding could end up altering the 'musicality' of the Oppo, and defeating the purpose of a 'budget' player. Before plunging money, look at other high-end CD players such as Rega Apollo/Saturn, Cambridge Audio Azur 840C, Marantz SA11 and SA15.
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Thanks for that info, I can't wait to receive my oppo, hopefully it will be released soon!
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I have one (980H) on order and, look forward to playing it - both video and audio. It will see double duty, video and audio. Though it is primarily it's for video duties. Some minor mods sound like a good idea and, thanks for sharing your ideas Nuforce-Casey. Good info.
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Yes...thank you Casey! :thumb:
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I wanted to share one of the best tweaks, i have recently done with my oppo 981HD. When i bought my 981, i purchased some Soundcare spike 2 isolation feet, i thought they looked like something that might be OEM and yet they seem to help with isolation. It wasn't until recently after reading about some of the mass loading devices (ex. HRS damping plates and Bright star audio little rock pods) and a review on tnt audio that i considered mass loading. This is a very in depth and well written article. The writer concludes that mass loading benefits electronics with cheap steel stamped chassis the most vs heavily reinforced aluminum chassis. I agree with alot of what the writer of this article has to say about this very topic. Furthermore, mass loading increases the effectiveness of the isolation below the unit cause of the added weight. At the moment i took 2 3lb hand weights( which appear to be metal with a rubberized coating) and placed them on the top of my oppo with most of the weight centralized over the disc tray/pickup mechanism.I plan on purchasing a mass loading device of some kind in the very near future, i also consider them a very worthwhile tweak considering they can be more bang for the buck in terms of performance than a cable upgrade! I must say though i cant believe how much better the unit sounded, Prat improved, micro and macrodynamics increased, instruments seemed more natural and precise throughout the frequency spectrum especially in the lower octaves. Give it a try you wont be disappointed.
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The new Oppo 980H exceeds the performance of 970HD by all account, and also exceeded the audio performance of 983HD.
Casey, did you mean that the 980H exceeds the audio performance of the 981HD? I don't see a model 983 on the Oppo website...
Thanks!
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I think that is what he meant... However the 983 is their next flagship player( due out sometime in the winter?) with the audio side of the 980H but with deinterlacing/scaling handled by ABT 102 deinterlacing chip and ABT 1018 scaling engine. a nice post of this can be found over at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=905400
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I think that is what he meant... However the 983 is their next flagship player( due out sometime in the winter?) with the audio side of the 980H but with deinterlacing/scaling handled by ABT 102 deinterlacing chip and ABT 1018 scaling engine. a nice post of this can be found over at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=905400
Just read through that...sounds like Oppo might have the ultimate solution in the pipe. :o
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Typo. I meant 981HD.