M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction

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Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #280 on: 13 Dec 2019, 05:32 pm »
The M3 and M5 Sapphire both being rated to 32Hz is correct. Since the 2 woofers are identical, there is an amplitude lift on the M3 (in parallel below 90Hz) over the single woofer of the M5, but the bass cutoff point is the same.

Clayton
Thanks Clayton. Practically speaking , the m3 will sound louder in the lower end for a given preamp volume over the m5 or are there any other benefits from the 2 woofer design ? 

Tyson

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #281 on: 13 Dec 2019, 05:35 pm »
The upper woofer rolls out at 576Hz, while the lower woofer rolls out at 90Hz. So, it is a 2 1/2 way system design.

Clayton

2.5 way designs are an incredibly smart way to deal with baffle step loss. 

Spatial Audio

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #282 on: 13 Dec 2019, 05:48 pm »
Thanks Clayton. Practically speaking , the m3 will sound louder in the lower end for a given preamp volume over the m5 or are there any other benefits from the 2 woofer design ?

Yes, it sounds Heftier (audiophile technical term ;) ) in the bass range - and really helps when the volume is turned down. Also provides more thermal dissipation headroom.

Hi Tyson - agreed. The best way to offset dipole losses in a passive OB speaker design from our testing.

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #283 on: 13 Dec 2019, 06:02 pm »
Yes, it sounds Heftier (audiophile technical term ;) ) in the bass range - and really helps when the volume is turned down. Also provides more thermal dissipation headroom.

Hi Tyson - agreed. The best way to offset dipole losses in a passive OB speaker design from our testing.
As a  non engineering type this is going over my head ( other than heftier which I understand).  The original post announcing these speakers states that the speakers sound the same other than the bass Is fuller for the m3  ( I’m paraphrasing). Does this initial statement still hold true or have there been additional revelations since full time production has begun for both of these speakers?  Just curious......
« Last Edit: 13 Dec 2019, 08:05 pm by Jprod »

sockpit

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #284 on: 13 Dec 2019, 09:49 pm »
The M3 and M5 Sapphire both being rated to 32Hz is correct. Since the 2 woofers are identical, there is an amplitude lift on the M3 (in parallel below 90Hz) over the single woofer of the M5, but the bass cutoff point is the same.

Clayton


I'm no techie, but have two somewhat technical questions:

1. On the M5s, when you say they go down to 32, does that mean they are more or less flat or that they roll off earlier?  Not a trick or gotcha question, I don't understand how these things are measured in the speaker world.  My little REL T1 subwoofer's only goes down that far, and I'll likely be selling or repurposing it, if the bass is deep and articulate in the M5s in my little 11 by 14 listening room. But I do like a firm foundation, esp. with rich orchestral pieces.

2. Does a small room like mine actually make 1 a moot point?  In other words, even if the M5 goes flat to 32, the room couldn't reproduce it because of sheer physics.  I've tried to read up on this, but get conflicting answers on how room size interacts with long waves of low frequency bass.  Maybe I've never, ever heard 32 with my REL because my room dimensions forbid it?  If so, the M5s won't be able to trick mother nature.

Thanks!


Spatial Audio

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #285 on: 14 Dec 2019, 02:53 am »
As a  non engineering type this is going over my head ( other than heftier which I understand).  The original post announcing these speakers states that the speakers sound the same other than the bass Is fuller for the m3  ( I’m paraphrasing). Does this initial statement still hold true or have there been additional revelations since full time production has begun for both of these speakers?  Just curious......

The M3 and M5 Sapphire models are indeed the same above about 100Hz. The M3 offers a little more oomph. The M5 is perfect for small rooms and the M3 is recommenced for all larger room applications.

Clayton

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #286 on: 14 Dec 2019, 01:58 pm »
The M3 and M5 Sapphire models are indeed the same above about 100Hz. The M3 offers a little more oomph. The M5 is perfect for small rooms and the M3 is recommenced for all larger room applications.

Clayton
Now that’s something I can understand !  Thanks Clayton as always for your responses and help both on this forum and on the phone.

sockpit

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #287 on: 14 Dec 2019, 02:55 pm »
Now that’s something I can understand !  Thanks Clayton as always for your responses and help both on this forum and on the phone.

jprod:  what’s the approximate size of your nice room?  How is the bass shaping up?

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #288 on: 14 Dec 2019, 03:24 pm »
jprod:  what’s the approximate size of your nice room?  How is the bass shaping up?

It’s approximately 16 feet wide by about 30 -35 feet deep. It’s an oddly shaped room with a diagonal gas fireplace on the right side.  I sit about 10 feet back measured from  the speaker. Behind the couch is a table, then a foosball table , bar stools and a bar.  Obviously I never listen anywhere else other than the couch. 

The bass initially doesn’t seem as impactful as my turbo s speakers.  It also seems to drop off at lower volumes compared to the turbo s. However they are new and I have not had proper time to break them in which I’m sure is a factor. 

sockpit

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #289 on: 14 Dec 2019, 03:29 pm »
Thanks much.

timing3435

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #290 on: 14 Dec 2019, 04:28 pm »
The upper woofer rolls out at 576Hz, while the lower woofer rolls out at 90Hz. So, it is a 2 1/2 way system design.

Clayton

I am interested in how low you have measured the mid-range/ tweeter down to. Is it actually cut off at the 500Hz or does it go into the 300Hz range? The transition from 300Hz up is my interest ( 300- 5000Hz, mid-range). Are the upper woofer and mid/tweeter carrying the same frequencies? 

SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #291 on: 15 Dec 2019, 12:54 am »

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #292 on: 15 Dec 2019, 05:37 am »
AVShowrooms sound demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHakZ7yhvs&t=1s
Thanks for sharing.  The bass sounds great on these even through the video! I am hoping the m5s bass fills out somewhat like the big brothers with more playing time. 

Birdbrain

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #293 on: 15 Dec 2019, 11:17 am »
AVShowrooms sound demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHakZ7yhvs&t=1s
That sounds so good through my M3 Triode Masters I think I'll just keep them.

Tomy2Tone

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #294 on: 15 Dec 2019, 01:10 pm »
Wow, great demo. I think Clayton going to be busy this year.

Tomy2Tone

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #295 on: 15 Dec 2019, 02:10 pm »
Any chance somebody has ordered these in one of the paint options? Just curious if it’s the same sheen as the previous line or is it gloss.

Audiosaurusrex

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #296 on: 15 Dec 2019, 02:31 pm »
Clayton told me the paint options are matte.

Tomy2Tone

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #297 on: 15 Dec 2019, 02:42 pm »
Clayton told me the paint options are matte.

Thank you!

mreeter

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #298 on: 15 Dec 2019, 03:18 pm »
sorry, duplicate post :duh:

mreeter

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #299 on: 15 Dec 2019, 03:23 pm »
AVShowrooms sound demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHakZ7yhvs&t=1s

I've had the Lampizator Amber 3 (the DAC used in this Video) for around a month now, it's a stellar piece.

I hope to own a pair of the M3's one day as well.