[Komoyuki]

So I have been looking at GR-Research for a long time now and I must say that I appreciate the man and the idea and the journey behind all his statements. I want to possibly do a DIY of his bookhelf the X-LS Encore, but this is another topic.

I bought a pair of Dynaudio Special 40 lately and you can understand that I watched Danny's video and this is where things are happening in my head  . First of all I want to be clear. I don't doubt Danny's affirmation for a second, he proves his words with hard data. I also understand the speach of audio companies, here Dynaudio, that they have choices to make and that ultimately, they are not non-profit companies. The special forty are some unique bookshelf and I am convice Dynaudio took long time and puts lots of effort into this speakers. Even if some components inside aren't high quality or call it waterver you want claims by Danny, but they seems to be loved by people and reviewers. And for a long time that I know that one should not buy a speaker according to the specs or the graphics but well according to the sound.

So why would you absolutely want to do a tuning with this bookshelf. What are the real advantages of it, what is the difference in the sound. How do I know if the kit Danny is offering is going to make a real positive change? Have other people had the chance to do it and if so do you have a description of the difference. It would be greatly appreciated because yes, I would like to do it you see 

[tortoiseman2542]

So I have been looking at GR-Research for a long time now and I must say that I appreciate the man and the idea and the journey behind all his statements. I want to possibly do a DIY of his bookhelf the X-LS Encore, but this is another topic.

I bought a pair of Dynaudio Special 40 lately and you can understand that I watched Danny's video and this is where things are happening in my head  . First of all I want to be clear. I don't doubt Danny's affirmation for a second, he proves his words with hard data. I also understand the speach of audio companies, here Dynaudio, that they have choices to make and that ultimately, they are not non-profit companies. The special forty are some unique bookshelf and I am convice Dynaudio took long time and puts lots of effort into this speakers. Even if some components inside aren't high quality or call it waterver you want claims by Danny, but they seems to be loved by people and reviewers. And for a long time that I know that one should not buy a speaker according to the specs or the graphics but well according to the sound.

So why would you absolutely want to do a tuning with this bookshelf. What are the real advantages of it, what is the difference in the sound. How do I know if the kit Danny is offering is going to make a real positive change? Have other people had the chance to do it and if so do you have a description of the difference. It would be greatly appreciated because yes, I would like to do it you see 

Thanks for the post in this circle and welcome! 

I will lend my thoughts here but I want to give a few caveats.  You can probably tell from my post history that i tend to favor the AV123 products Danny designed many years ago for the now defunct company.  I first got into their speakers with a set of X-LS classics that I found locally for a steal at the time.  I then got into the many message boards and began the path of trying to find bigger and better speakers.  I thought AV123 had a fantastic value for the money but knew little about audio then.  I went entirely based on my ears. 

Secondly my listening is like 95% home theater.  Even though I loved and appreciated AV123 products, there always seemed to be a lack of something.  Like I always felt like there was something missing but I didn't have the knowledge or words to say what.  I had "won" a pair of X-MTM's from the owner (check web for why this is funny and with the back story of his "raffles").  I was lucky enough to actually receive the speakers I paid for but one arrived with a bad tweeter.  I worked with Sean "Skiing Ninja", who worked for them at the time and he was a great guy.  I got into the topic of feeling like there was something missing and he pointed me to the XO upgrades he offered. 

I bought upgrades and the speakers just transformed.  Even in mostly home theater use they were night and day different.  I was thrilled and bought better AV123 speakers and upgraded each (X-Statik's and X-Voce).  I even lent Sean my pair of Statik's and Voce to develop the upgraded XO he sold. 

Little did I know at the time but he was actually working closely with Danny on the upgrades and Danny did most of the technical spec'ing of the new crossovers.  The statik's and Voce were just breathtaking speakers with the upgrades and punched far above their weight in sound. 

After AV123 went out of business I found Audiocircle and Danny's circle.  I learned about all of the stuff Danny designed for them and have been here since.  I still own and upgrade AV123 speakers and talk with Danny and Hobbs frequently. 

I am working on upgrading another pair of X-LS's, some X-Statik's/Voce, and LS-6's with parts/designs from Danny.  Again most of my use is home theater.  Music is several levels better than how good the HT upgrade is with the XO. 

I eyed Dynaudio Special 40's myself recently just because I loved the look and because Danny offered an upgrade.  They really are worth every penny, especially if you favor music listening. 

I could wax poetic and throw audiophile terms at you but I hate that stuff.  They are significantly clearer and more precise.  Music really comes to live.  Home theater is soooooo much better with these. 

I hope my long diatribe helps.  I just wanted to illustrate why I always upgrade my speakers if possible.  It really is worth it. 

Robert

[NoahH]

The other thing worth calling out is there are 3 basic types of changes

Resonance - adding no rez decrease box vibration. May or may not be an issue for yours.
Redesign - if the frequency response has issues, he changes the design to try to flatten that out. Again, depends on how theb40's measure.
Parts - using better parts does not do much of anything to the measurements, but subjectively can have a lot of good effects. The simple form is that lower grade parts can smear the sound over time slightly, so details get lots. That screws up stuff like sound stage.

I see confusion on this often, so it is worth separating those.

[timind]

Parts - using better parts does not do much of anything to the measurements, but subjectively can have a lot of good effects. The simple form is that lower grade parts can smear the sound over time slightly, so details get lots. That screws up stuff like sound stage.

I see confusion on this often, so it is worth separating those.

Upgrading parts doesn't always change the sound to something "better." I say better as to the taste of the listener. I had a pair of speakers which used some boutique parts, and some bog standard parts. I upgraded all the lower quality resistors and caps and found I didn't enjoy the change. Maybe the sound was "better," but I preferred the previous sound. Maybe the speaker designer chose the parts based solely on his listening and used the cheaper parts to get the sound he wanted. I don't know for sure, but I quickly sold the speakers and advertised them as having upgraded crossover parts.

[Komoyuki]

Upgrading parts doesn't always change the sound to something "better." I say better as to the taste of the listener. I had a pair of speakers which used some boutique parts, and some bog standard parts. I upgraded all the lower quality resistors and caps and found I didn't enjoy the change. Maybe the sound was "better," but I preferred the previous sound. Maybe the speaker designer chose the parts based solely on his listening and used the cheaper parts to get the sound he wanted. I don't know for sure, but I quickly sold the speakers and advertised them as having upgraded crossover parts.

I would say the Dynaudios don't do anything wrong and everything is perfect. They are smooth, in my system at least. It does not lack speed but sometimes attack and sparks would be nice. This is not a complaint and probably correctable by a silver based interconnect cable But again, it would be nice to hear from someone who compared the Special 40s with upgrade parts from Danny

[corndog71]

Upgrading parts doesn't always change the sound to something "better." I say better as to the taste of the listener. I had a pair of speakers which used some boutique parts, and some bog standard parts. I upgraded all the lower quality resistors and caps and found I didn't enjoy the change. Maybe the sound was "better," but I preferred the previous sound. Maybe the speaker designer chose the parts based solely on his listening and used the cheaper parts to get the sound he wanted. I don't know for sure, but I quickly sold the speakers and advertised them as having upgraded crossover parts.

Did you live with them for a while?  Many of the better caps have a long break-in period.  Some get weird or even bad sounding before completely opening up after 300-500 hours.  And some caps just aren’t a good match to the drivers.  I know a particular series of caps that sound great in the mids but quickly drop off in the high frequencies.  Sonicaps have a fairly neutral but still detailed sound to them.  Add some copper bypass caps and you get even more air and space but also a hint of warmth to the sound.

[Skilly]

Komoyuki, I am writing this to you, and to myself as well. I do this to remind me of an obvious but seldom appreciated principles.

1) Audio enthusiasm, for me anyway, is a hobby. It is to be enjoyed. It is supposed to bring me pleasurable listening experience. Whatever pleases ME is the goal. If it brings me pleasure, then it is just what I want. If that means that I am looking for the next better thing, than I am reducing my pleasure. If I am looking for a "name" on my gear then that is not audio enthusiasm, that is collecting.

2) There is nothing wrong in collecting, its just not what I am focusing on. If collecting is your focus, than know that you are going to be spending $$$ on something that you want because you want the name, thus you are only going to be gaining temporary pleasure from it.

3) Where I am listening is more important than what I am listening to in terms of experience. Gear may sound terrific in one setting and like dirt in another. Unless I want to change my listening environment, I need to tailor my gear for my room. Some can change their room to fit the gear, but for reasons too numerous to mention, that is not a practical proposition for me. Getting the best out of my experience, I need to experiment with my gear to find its best performance. This means that "set it and forget it," may not result in uniform experience in listening. Different music may need speaker movement, tone adjustments and volume settings which only I may appreciate.

4) Like the game of golf, perfection is unattainable. With that acceptance, I feel I can make changes to maximize my experience, but know that: a) a change is not always an improvement, b) over time things will sound different, c) a less than satisfying result from a change is not a "Bad Result" if I do not lose too much $$ and learn from it.

5) I acknowledge in myself that the chase for perfection, even though unattainable, is not a negative since I do get pleasure from the chase. Aware of this, I need to set my limits in perspective. Although I am looking for a personal experience, my actions effect other around me, so I do need to remember to be aware of consequences.

I know that this list is not unique or even all that special, but I do tend to forget them in the heat of my chase. When I feel the itch for a new "thing" I have to step back sometimes and assess why I want the change. I feel that helps me make a better choice. I hope this helps you as well.

Scott
 

[minatophase3]

I am curious about this upgrade as well.  I have a pair of SP40's and think they sound really good.  Had them in my 2 channel setup until recently, now they are serving home theater duties as I upgraded to some Spatial M4's for my 2 channel system.

I almost ordered the upgrade kit for the SP40's when they first came out but wanted to wait to hear from some people that have done it.  So far I haven't been able to find any reviews from people that have done it.  I have several of Danny's power cords and think they are awesome and I believe he knows what he is doing, so I think the upgrade kit would be good, but voiding the warranty of the speakers has me a bit scared to give it a try.  And now that they are no longer used for 2 channel and are part of a 5.2 system I am not sure it would warrant the extra expense.  Still would be very interested in hearing from people that have done the upgrade to see what they think.

[JCarney]

Hi.
I have a bit of crazy thought to consider. Obviously your curiosity is piqued, or you would not have started this thread. If the $300 is affordable in your mind, build out the new xovers on their own boards and install. Remove the old xovers and store them some place. Give the parts time to break in and you time to adjust to the new sound. We tend to forget that part, at least I have been guilty of it. I have a feeling the old xovers will stay where you put them. Like I said, a bit crazy.

Good Luck,
JCarney

[Komoyuki]

Hi.
I have a bit of crazy thought to consider. Obviously your curiosity is piqued, or you would not have started this thread. If the $300 is affordable in your mind, build out the new xovers on their own boards and install. Remove the old xovers and store them some place. Give the parts time to break in and you time to adjust to the new sound. We tend to forget that part, at least I have been guilty of it. I have a feeling the old xovers will stay where you put them. Like I said, a bit crazy.

Good Luck,
JCarney

Yes indeed. I will eventually end up calling Danny and having a chat with him. There's also the fact that I've never done this before. I get by in a lot of things but playing in a crossover, soldering, etc. Not sure yet
but it would be nice to install a PDF on the GR-Research site for informations and preparation

[JCarney]

Yes indeed. I will eventually end up calling Danny and having a chat with him. There's also the fact that I've never done this before. I get by in a lot of things but playing in a crossover, soldering, etc. Not sure yet
but it would be nice to install a PDF on the GR-Research site for informations and preparation

My vote is go for it. 

JCarney

[Redheart]

Looking at the crossover design Danny designed for it, I think you really should really try it!
It's really a precise correction crossover for that speaker!

Together with no rez and add some fiberglass and you should be golden.
Big brands speaker designers put parts based on their cost and size, otherwise you wouldn't find electrolytics, push on connectors, or sand cast resistors in audio products!

[Danny Richie]

This upgrade covers improvements in many areas.

The first, is attenuating the resonance issue in the woofers response. The ringing there is quite bad, and bringing that spot down is fixing a problem area. So it isn't a matter of preference. No one is going to like a little added coloration from woofer ringing.

The upgrade includes a sheet of No Rez to control cabinet wall resonances. This is also a coloration or distortion. The result is a tighter bottom end with cleaner bass and lower vocals.

The improvement in crossover parts quality will be a significant improvement in clarity, detail levels, preservation of spatial cues, imaging, and reduced smearing. Who wouldn't want that?

Replacing the binding post with tube connectors and replacing the wiring is also an improvement in clarity across the board (lows to highs). Who wouldn't want that?

The drivers are now in phase over a wider vertical range. So the total in room response will be a little more balanced. Who wouldn't want that?

The overall tonal balance of the speaker really didn't change that much, but improvements (unquestionable improvements) have been made across the board.