AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Vinnie Rossi => Topic started by: beowulf on 28 Apr 2016, 12:50 am
-
Hi Vinnie, I may have missed this somewhere, but I didn't find the exact answer and was just wondering ...
The new DHT line stage acts in the "preamp" section correct and if so, does that mean I can still use my own amplification of choice? For example, I have a pair Omega Loudspeakers and a Decware amp that I like using with them quite a bit, but I really want a full function preamp with a remote, would this work in combination with the DHT fitted LIO?
Thanks!
-
Hi Vinnie, I may have missed this somewhere, but I didn't find the exact answer and was just wondering ...
The new DHT line stage acts in the "preamp" section correct and if so, does that mean I can still use my own amplification of choice? For example, I have a pair Omega Loudspeakers and a Decware amp that I like using with them quite a bit, but I really want a full function preamp with a remote, would this work in combination with the DHT fitted LIO?
Thanks!
Hi beowulf,
The upcoming LIO DHT PRE is in the linestage and will be offered as such (and more! see below), so you certainly can use your own amplification. I'm still working on all the details (in a week or two, I hope to have a webpage added for it, along with pricing/ pre-order information. I'm getting there - been so busy catching up after AXPONA!)
The way you can configure a LIO with the upcoming DHT PRE stage will be as follows (really just like with any LIO!):
SOURCES
- LIO DSD/PCM dac with DHT output stage and external power supply (with our without volume control)
- LIO Phonostage with DHT output stage and external power supply (with or without volume control)
- Can easily be both in one unit (with or without volume control)
- LIO Remote Handset
These will be for those who want to only order it as a source component to feed their system (preamp / integrated)
PREAMPLIFIER
- LIO INPUTS (3 sets of line-level inputs)
- LIO "NUDE RVC" (custom version of RVC with all Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors, point-to-point wired onto the signal relays)
- LIO DHT PRE stage and external power supply
- LIO OUTPUTS (2 sets of variable pre-amp outputs, 1 fixed level)
- LIO Remote Handset
- Could also contain LIO DSD/PCM DAC, PHONOSTAGE, and even HPA output stage modules
DHT INTEGRATED
- LIO INPUTS (3 sets of inputs)
- LIO "NUDE RVC" (custom version of RVC with all Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors, point-to-point wired onto the signal relays)
- LIO DHT PRE stage and external power supply
- LIO MOSFET AMP
- LIO OUTPUTS (2 sets of variable pre-amp outputs, 1 fixed level), as LIO INTEGRATED can also be used as a preamp (turn off
speaker output stage via front panel switch)
- LIO Remote Handset
- Could also contain LIO DSD/PCM DAC, PHONOSTAGE, and even HPA output stage
NOTE: At AXPONA2016, we had a LIO DHT INTEGRATED with DAC and PHONOSTAGE installed:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142422.0
FOR CURRENT LIO OWNERS
- No matter your currenrt LIO configuration, the LIO DHT PRE can be added.
- Pricing and trade-in pricing to follow in the next week or two
WHEN???
Realistically, this all won't be ready for shipping until the end of May / early June (based on where you are on the pre-order queue once we set that set up).
Top-panel and tube cover design has been finalized and I won't be seeing them in until late May. :banghead:
Many other parts are here already and waiting to be assembled.
Tube covers: (black or silver) metal cylinder for each tube that the user can easily install over tubes only if desired. Comes
standard with any LIO DHT configuration above. It's a nice touch if you are worried about pets / children touching the glass tubes,
AND if you are using tubes that are sensitive to picking up hum in this configuration (e.g. 101D / 205D, others with high plate resistance)
More soon!
Vinnie
-
Wow, looks like just about anything can be done. Thanks for the awesome information in detail.
-
Hi Vinnie,
You've been playing with a number of DHTs, so have you been able to identify the characteristics of each? I'm curious about the differences between the 45/2A3s, 300Bs, and the 811s.
-
Still a bit confused if/where the option of AVC + Tube Stage (or the AVC volume control alone for that matter) fits in with the DHT Line Stage?
Perhaps these are both considered an either/or option vs the DHT Line Stage?
Can you verify what volume control(s) can be used with the DHT Line Stage?
Is the DHT Line Stage being used in conjunction with the phono stage?
-
Hi Vinnie,
You've been playing with a number of DHTs, so have you been able to identify the characteristics of each? I'm curious about the differences between the 45/2A3s, 300Bs, and the 811s.
Hi BobRex,
Absolutely - especially in this application where the DHTs are used in a circuit w/o the challenging load of driving an OPT / speakers (in the linestage instead of the speaker output stage), the characteristics of each tube really comes through!
In time, I'll be working on posting my findings.
Still a bit confused if/where the option of AVC + Tube Stage (or the AVC volume control alone for that matter) fits in with the DHT Line Stage?
Perhaps these are both considered an either/or option vs the DHT Line Stage?
Can you verify what volume control(s) can be used with the DHT Line Stage?
Hi nnck,
The LIO AVC/Tubestage is NOT used at all with the LIO DHT PRE.
The new LIO DHT stage takes the physical location of BOTH the AVC module and HPA module (but the HPA module
can be moved onto the LIO DHT module, as we added the provision for this). The volume control option
for the LIO DHT will be a NUDE RVC (resistor volume control featuring all Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors, each point-to-point
wired directly to the relays that control the switching of each volume step). These are $10 - $15 per resistor, and by
far the most open and extended sounding I've tried. Definitely worth it for getting out of the way and letting the DHTs do their
thing. :wink:
Is the DHT Line Stage being used in conjunction with the phono stage?
It could be. Refer to my post above. You can use the LIO DHT just as the output stage of the dac or phonostage. You can
use it with the NUDE RVC volume control (making it a linestage), and you can have the linestage with the dac and/or phonostage
(and even headphone output module). Everything passes through the DHT stage - it is at the heart of everything.
And you can add the LIO MOSFET AMP (making it an integrated, as we showed at AXPONA).
Need more power? Configure LIO DHT as a linestage (with/without dac / phonostage) and add a VR120 or power amp of
your choice.
Once we get our website cleaned up and everything posted, I'm hoping it will all be much more clear.
Vinnie
-
What is the height of the LIO DHT with tubes installed? I understand that it could change a bit depending on which tube is installed, but an average measurement should suffice. I want to make sure I have clearance on an eight in shelf.
-
What is the height of the LIO DHT with tubes installed? I understand that it could change a bit depending on which tube is installed, but an average measurement should suffice. I want to make sure I have clearance on an eight in shelf.
Hi Krisstack,
Including the feet and the tubes, you're looking at around 9" to 10". Give yourself another inch or two for ventilation, so say approx. 12".
Regarding heat, since we are not using the the DHT to drive speakers, they do not get nearly has hot as with SET amps. The hottest ones I've used so far are the SV811 and SV572's (they have a 4A filament, so that's approx. 20 watts of heat per tube). The others are less than 10 watts of heat per tube, and are warm to the touch ( but not hot enough to cause burns if you hold them).
I'm getting the website finished today / tomorrow - and then we'll be ready to open it up to pre-ordering! :hyper:
And a new website re-design is coming early June, and will make navigating and learning about LIO much easier for newcomers (I hope!).
New photography will be added then as well. :eyebrows:
Vinnie
-
And a new website re-design is coming early June, and will make navigating and learning about LIO much easier for newcomers (I hope!).
New photography will be added then as well. :eyebrows:
Vinnie
Funny as I think your site is as intuitive as it could be. Now I'm curious to see what you come up with. :thumb:
-
What's the price of the AVC+tubestage versus the DHT+resistor?
May I ask what the differences are sonically and in what situations one may be preferred over the other?
Thanks!
-
What's the price of the AVC+tubestage versus the DHT+resistor?
Thanks!
All,
This page (I just posted it today) should help:
http://vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/ (http://vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/)
It still needs some fine touches, but is a good start for introducing LIO DHT PRE.
*** There will be special pre-order price of $4995 (+ shipping) until June 1st, 2016. After June 1st, the price
is $5995 + shipping ***.
NOTE: This price is just for the LIO DHT PRE stage (does not include the price of the LIO base unit
or other modules).
For current LIO customers - I did not forgot about you and there are trade-in options as you will see!
LIO DHT PRE includes the following:
- LIO DHT PRE stage (the module)
- LIO DHT Power Supply (external unit)
- "NUDE RVC" module (new RVC volume control module sold exclusively for LIO DHT PRE)
- LIO DHT PRE top cover (you choose black or silver)
- LIO DHT OUTPUTS (This is the LIO OUTPUTS module, but with add power input jack for the external LIO DHT Power Supply, which
then internally connects to the LIO DHT PRE module's power jack via a barrel plug with locking mechanism).
- 1 pair of new, matched EH2A3 "gold grid" tubes (these are the chosen 'stock' tubes to come with LIO DHT PRE)
- 1 pair of aluminum tube covers (you choose black or silver. Easy to install / remove - for those who what to keep the glass tubes
away from pets and small children, or hum shielding with "hum sensitive" tubes such as the 101D 205D).
May I ask what the differences are sonically and in what situations one may be preferred over the other?
- LIO RVC + Tubestage will be preferred for its lower price point (if you are building within a certain budget).
- As many LIO customers know (via upgrading) LIO AVC/Tubestage expands on the RVC + Tubestage with a improved texture, micro-detail, openness, and ultimately delivers a more neutral performance (which can easily be flavored into warmer or more lively/ detailed territory via tube rolling).
- LIO DHT PRE is the ultimate tube rolling experience ("convertible design allowing for rolling in different DHT tube families) and for those who crave the DHT sound. See section on webpage ("I put a spell on you..." 8)) that describes that DHT sound.
I still need to test out the shopping cart this evening, but it looks like it should be good to go for pre-ordering. I'll confirm in the next 4 hours or so. I've been very busy!
Thank you,
Vinnie
-
Thanks for the detailed update Vinnie. Do you have photos and details of the power supply? Does this mean then the LIO will require two plugs?
Also, does the power supply also feature the ultracapacitors?
Best,
-
("I put a spell on you..." 8) )
Thank you,
Vinnie
Since I like playing DJ, track 5 of this album is by far my favorite version of that song. Jeff Beck on guitar and Joss Stone singing.
:kiss:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142325)
-
Since I like playing DJ, track 5 of this album is by far my favorite version of that song. Jeff Beck on guitar and Joss Stone singing.
:kiss:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142325)
Nice selection. :thumb:
George
-
The Annie Lennox version (T3) is quite good too but I prefer the Joss Stone above.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142327)
OK, I'm done now. Back to the Vinnie Rossi DHT Line Stage!
-
Nice selection. :thumb:
George
Very nice track! A different taste of what I am used to (Nina Simone), and love Beck's guitar work mixed with Stone's vocal -
they go like bread and butter!
Thanks for the detailed update Vinnie. Do you have photos and details of the power supply? Does this mean then the LIO will require two plugs?
Also, does the power supply also feature the ultracapacitors?
Hi JP78,
I need to get photos of the DHT power supply (I have nothing yet).
Here is what I can tell you about LIO DHT Power Supply in the meantime:
Dimensions: Approx. 6.5″ wide x 9.0″ deep x 3.75″ tall
Weight: Approx. 10 lbs.
Color: Black (no options for silver)
Type: Linear regulated and on-the-grid (no ultracaps, this is just for the filaments and also replaces LIO's stock power adapter)
Outputs: (1) for LIO DHT Filaments, (1) for LIO's 24V power input.
- Lenght of output cables: Approx. 5 feet
- ON/OFF rocker switch on front panel (illuminated red when ON), should be left ON all the time, as
the DHT's turn ON/OFF when you turn ON/OFF LIO via the front panel (or remote handset).
- IEC power input jack on rear panel
- Heatsink on rear panel (allow some space air to flow - it gets quite warm/hot with the SV572/SV811's 4A filaments, but only
moderately warm with most others. The heat is normal!)
NOTE: The LIO DHT PRE will come with a new "LIO DHT OUTPUTS" module (with added PWR input jack for the DHT filaments) - no extra
cost for this, but we ask that you please send back your stock LIO OUTPUTS module at your convenience.
Thank you,
Vinnie
-
Very nice track! A different taste of what I am used to (Nina Simone), and love Beck's guitar work mixed with Stone's vocal -
they go like bread and butter!
Glad you approve.
Type: Linear regulated and on-the-grid (no ultracaps, this is just for the filaments and also replaces LIO's stock power adapter)
Thank you,
Vinnie
Brilliant! One box solution to re-charge the ultracaps and power the filaments. :thumb:
:idea: Do you sell this LPS separately? Some people might want it as some claim any SMPS will inject hash back into their system. While it doesn't matter if they use a fully decked out LIO and/or VR120 but some may use other amps or even source. Just a thought!
-
Brilliant! One box solution to re-charge the ultracaps and power the filaments. :thumb:
That's exactly right! Thanks
Vinnie
-
Vinnie,
Do you have any pictures to show of the DHT module itself?
Steve
-
Vinnie,
Do you have any pictures to show of the DHT module itself?
Steve
Hi Steve,
Not yet - in a few weeks we're having a professional photoshoot done, and there will be much better pics added
to our website (including inside shots), and a cleaner layout and message. Stay tuned!
Also - check out what Srajan Ebaen of 6moons has been working on (so far 3 pages already!):
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/1.html
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/2.html
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/3.html
I'll be sending him DHT PRE for his LIO next month to review - and as usual, he'll be posting good pics!
Vinnie
-
Vinne,
Would love to know how AVC+tubestage (which is what I have now :thumb: 8)) compares to RVC+DHT pre?
Regards,
Kishore
-
Vinne,
Would love to know how AVC+tubestage (which is what I have now :thumb: 8)) compares to RVC+DHT pre?
Regards,
Kishore
I hope to do this comparison in the next few weeks.
Will post my thoughts once it happens.
George
-
:idea: Do you sell this LPS separately? Some people might want it as some claim any SMPS will inject hash back into their system. While it doesn't matter if they use a fully decked out LIO and/or VR120 but some may use other amps or even source. Just a thought!
-
:idea: Do you sell this LPS separately? Some people might want it as some claim any SMPS will inject hash back into their system. While it doesn't matter if they use a fully decked out LIO and/or VR120 but some may use other amps or even source. Just a thought!
Hi jtwrace,
I do not sell it separately, but could offer a 24V only version (same enclosure, but with only one output) of this linear power supply.
I'll plan on that in the next month or so... thanks.
Would love to know how AVC+tubestage (which is what I have now :thumb: 8)) compares to RVC+DHT pre?
Hi Kishore,
Nothing sounds like a DHT - especially in such a clean, minimalist linestage circuit as LIO DHT PRE (with NUDE RVC). I think it is probably best for me to just wait of all the DHT PRE customers who are pre-ordering (many who are trading in AVC/Tubestage) to post their impressions / comparisons.
I hope to do this comparison in the next few weeks.
Will post my thoughts once it happens.
Hi George,
We'll make something happen in the next week or two! :thumb:
Thanks,
Vinnie
-
Hi jtwrace,
I do not sell it separately, but could offer a 24V only version (same enclosure, but with only one output) of this linear power supply.
I'll plan on that in the next month or so... thanks.
Thanks,
Vinnie
Any idea of cost or is this a new addition that you need to figure out? Maybe offer both so if someone does choose to go to DHT the PS is all done. ;)
-
Hi George,
We'll make something happen in the next week or two! :thumb:
Thanks,
Vinnie
Excellent!! :beer:
George
-
Hey Vinnie,
After reading Srajan's initial write up of the DHT Module on 6Moons, I am curious if you worked out the isolation/vibration control of the tube sockets and the board?
Did you end up using the Stillpoints interfaces?
Will there be improvements that could be made here?
Thanks
Jason
-
Could you post some photos with the tube covers, please?
One other thing. If one goes with the DHT can one add the amp to LIO or one has to go with VR120?
If the latter is the case, can one eliminate the preamp section in VR120?
-
Srajan,s write up is right on. I haven't written up my impressions yet, but right now I'm not hearing everything I was able to with my Joule Electra / Moondog (2A3 SET) combo. Yeah, it's quieter, possibly more detailed (depends on the tube used - more on this later), and possible more linear, but something is missing. This is the magic Vinnie is talking about. I've been using 2A3s for 15 years, and maybe I had a serendipitous match, but in many aspects I had what was considered "Ultra-Fi". The current LIO is close, so very close. I'm hoping the DHT option is the last piece.
I'll be placing an order as soon as I get a few things figured out.
-
Srajan,s write up is right on. I haven't written up my impressions yet, but right now I'm not hearing everything I was able to with my Joule Electra / Moondog (2A3 SET) combo. Yeah, it's quieter, possibly more detailed (depends on the tube used - more on this later), and possible more linear, but something is missing. This is the magic Vinnie is talking about. I've been using 2A3s for 15 years, and maybe I had a serendipitous match, but in many aspects I had what was considered "Ultra-Fi". The current LIO is close, so very close. I'm hoping the DHT option is the last piece.
I'll be placing an order as soon as I get a few things figured out.
Hi BobRex,
Once you get yourself hooked on a 2A3, 300B, 811, etc. sound - it's hard going back. If you are into the voodoo that the DHTs do so well, you'll love LIO DHT PRE. :inlove:
Could you post some photos with the tube covers, please?
One other thing. If one goes with the DHT can one add the amp to LIO or one has to go with VR120?
If the latter is the case, can one eliminate the preamp section in VR120?
Hi mirekti,
- I have no photos of the tube covers yet - I won't have the covers until the end of this month. Think aluminum cylinder (closed top, closed walls) in aluminum ('silver') or black anodized finish to match the DHT PRE's top panel (or you can mix and match). On the bottom of the covers are two small L-brackets (180 degrees from each other) that allow you to screw them down to the top panel via two small 4-40 screws per cover. I don't use them, but I know for some, they want to cover the large tube's glass from pets and children, so the covers have their purpose (and I do find them needed to shield the 205D tubes from picking up hum because those tubes have high plate resistance and really need the shielding to be as close to hum-free as possible).
- As for your other question, see my 2nd post in this thread. The short answer is "YES" you can configure a LIO with the DHT PRE linestage AND the LIO MOSFET AMP (as well as dac, phonostage, headphone amp) - making it an integrated amp, or "super integrated amp." :)
- As for the VR120 power amp, you can feed the LIO's preamp outputs into a VR120 (preamp + power amp). VR120 is great for
those who need more power, and you can even get more power out of VR120s by running two of them, each in bridged-mono mode!
After reading Srajan's initial write up of the DHT Module on 6Moons, I am curious if you worked out the isolation/vibration control of the tube sockets and the board?
Did you end up using the Stillpoints interfaces?
Will there be improvements that could be made here?
Hi jriggy,
The LIO DHT tube sockets (Yamamoto - solid teflon UX-4 type) are each mounted above the board via two brass standoffs. Next to each tube socket is a slide switch (for setting filament voltage), which is part of the "SPVR" super-regulator daughter board mounted to a
heatsink (again, one per tube socket). In between them (touching them both) is a dampening material called Herbie's dBNeutralizer.
So this absorbs lateral vibrations quite well.
Under the PCB (under the brass standoffs) is more damping material that absorbs vibrations that might have been transferred to LIO and sent up to this LIO DHT board and up to the tubes.
Each tube socket has point-to-point wiring to its 4-pins, and has a custom white cardboard tube that contains circuit elements and they are all set into an epoxy that damps them and damps the tube pins / socket even further. Wires coming out of the epoxy connect to the PCB, which then get sent to the gold plated header pins that connect to LIO's backplane (motherboard).
I am not using Stillpoints. But I am curious about a different set of feet for LIO - the Herbie's 'Tenderfoot' (Tendersoft). If these make an improvement with LIO DHT PRE, I'll be sure to post about them. And I've heard that the Herbie's Tube Dampers can be helpful.
Microphonics with LIO DHT is not going to be much of an issue. If you tap away at the LIO, expect to hear it in the speakers (microphonics). If you don't tap on it, there really are no issues there - so don't tap the LIO's enclosure, flick the tubes, or anything silly like that! I've read posts on forums discussing DHT Preamps being so microphonic that simply clapping your hands in your listening chair can be heard through the speakers. That is *definitely* not the case here! It well under control, as is the noise. I don't think any other DHT linestage has it all taken care of quite this well (just based on what I've read about others that have come before from users on various forums). And sonically speaking, it should make a very bold statement.
Any idea of cost or is this a new addition that you need to figure out? Maybe offer both so if someone does choose to go to DHT the PS is all done. ;)
Hi jtwrace,
Not yet - I'll be looking into this more probably next month. I have too much on my plate right now, but I don't see it being too expensive (Maybe around $395), which is for a 24V output version only (not the dual output version for LIO DHT PRE, which already
comes with LIO DHT PRE).
*****
INSTALLING YOUR LIO DHT PRE :rules:
In a few weeks, I'll send out a PDF installation manual from LIO DHT PRE pre-order customers to read over. I haven't even started it yet, but I'll get there! Then you can decide if this job is something that you feel comfortable doing or not. If it looks like something you rather not do, you can send your LIO to me and I'll install it free of charge to you (but you pay shipping both ways). Sure - I rather install them in for everyone, but I know shipping to me might not be attractive and you might want to try installing yourself. I'll try my best to support you with that, and if there are any issues you can always have it sent to me.
WHEN WILL MY LIO DHT PRE SHIP??? :cuss:
Ideally, I'll have the new top panels and tube covers by the end of this month. The other parts should already be completed and tested by then. But I'll be away at the Newport Beach Show June 2 - 6th, so they might not start to ship until right after the show. This is probably a good thing because I'll be back to provide any tech support once you receive them. :wink:
I have already received more pre-orders that I was expecting in the first day (thank you! :notworthy:), and those customers are now
in the queue. For those who order later in the pre-order period, they will naturally receive theirs later (throughout the month of June and possibly into July). You guys know that I'm not a large scale operation by any means, but I work hard and will keep you informed. And you can cancel your pre-order at any time for a full refund.
More updates soon!
Vinnie
-
Is a remote still available with the DHT PRE?
-
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?
-
Is a remote still available with the DHT PRE?
Remote is standard with the LIO
-
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?
In general, preamp tubes should last well north of 10,000 hrs as long as they aren't pushed in some weird way.
George
-
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?
Knowing how long my 2A3s last as output tubes - where they are stressed harder than they would be in a line stage - I'm thinking you should get a few of years out of them. In 15+ years I've gone through 3 sets of 2A3s (1 pair each of KRs, EML Mesh, and Shugang Treasures.)
Regarding the 6922s, I'd say close to the same lifetime.
-
Hi jriggy,
The LIO DHT tube sockets (Yamamoto - solid teflon UX-4 type) are each mounted above the board via two brass standoffs. Next to each tube socket is a slide switch (for setting filament voltage), which is part of the "SPVR" super-regulator daughter board mounted to a
heatsink (again, one per tube socket). In between them (touching them both) is a dampening material called Herbie's dBNeutralizer.
So this absorbs lateral vibrations quite well.
Under the PCB (under the brass standoffs) is more damping material that absorbs vibrations that might have been transferred to LIO and sent up to this LIO DHT board and up to the tubes.
Each tube socket has point-to-point wiring to its 4-pins, and has a custom white cardboard tube that contains circuit elements and they are all set into an epoxy that damps them and damps the tube pins / socket even further. Wires coming out of the epoxy connect to the PCB, which then get sent to the gold plated header pins that connect to LIO's backplane (motherboard).
I am not using Stillpoints. But I am curious about a different set of feet for LIO - the Herbie's 'Tenderfoot' (Tendersoft). If these make an improvement with LIO DHT PRE, I'll be sure to post about them. And I've heard that the Herbie's Tube Dampers can be helpful.
Microphonics with LIO DHT is not going to be much of an issue. If you tap away at the LIO, expect to hear it in the speakers (microphonics). If you don't tap on it, there really are no issues there - so don't tap the LIO's enclosure, flick the tubes, or anything silly like that! I've read posts on forums discussing DHT Preamps being so microphonic that simply clapping your hands in your listening chair can be heard through the speakers. That is *definitely* not the case here! It well under control, as is the noise. I don't think any other DHT linestage has it all taken care of quite this well (just based on what I've read about others that have come before from users on various forums). And sonically speaking, it should make a very bold statement.
Vinnie
Wow, thanks for the great and informative response! I think I must of been mistaken in my mentioning of Stillpoints as standoffs under the board.
I like hearing that you were/are experimenting with o-rings in various places for vibrations, too. Sounds like you are thinking of everything you can for potential microphonics.
-
Is swapping the DHT in place of the AVC/Tube stage as easy as swapping other modules? In theory could one have both setups and swap as their wants change?
-
Is a remote still available with the DHT PRE?
TomS is correct - every LIO (no matter the configuration) gets the remote control handset.
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?
George and BobRex are correct - in the linestage (instead of being used to drive speakers), you should expect thousands of hours (years). LIO DHT PRE will be very gentile on the tubes ("soft start", warm up, etc). No need to bias tubes. Just keep the pins clean
and enjoy them!
* It is important, however, to NOT select the incorrect filament voltage (e.g. If you select the 4V or 5V setting instead of the 2.5V setting for a 2A3, that is not good and will prematurely wear the filaments!). So if you are doing tube rolling, follow the included instructions that will come with your LIO DHT PRE and double check the settings before turning ON your LIO.
Is swapping the DHT in place of the AVC/Tube stage as easy as swapping other modules? In theory could one have both setups and swap as their wants change?
It's actually pretty straightforward once you see it and understand it:
- The DHT PRE takes the location of both the AVC/Tubestage module AND the HPA module (if you have one installed. And if you do, you move the HPA onto the DHT PRE module as there is a location for it), and you need to install the included NUDE RVC (volume control) module with DHT PRE, and plug in the filament power pigtail to the board / swap top cover.
- When using AVC/Tubestage, you replace the DHT PRE with AVC/Tubestage and remove NUDE RVC and install the small LIO JUMPER board in its place (and the AVC is the volume control section of AVC/Tubestage). LIO JUMPER bypasses the RVC.
If you take your time and double-check what you're doing, it's pretty hard to make a mistake. The module male headers only fit into place when they are aligned with the standoffs and it all just pushes down into place. No soldering, no way of getting it to lock into place incorrectly. I don't want to say "fool-proof" because you do need to be aware of what you are doing, but not too complicated if you follow the instructions and go step by step. :wink:
If/when the time comes that you have questions about the installation instructions, please email me for support.
Vinnie
-
Thank you for the thorough explanation. :thumb:
-
- I have no photos of the tube covers yet - I won't have the covers until the end of this month. Think aluminum cylinder (closed top, closed walls) in aluminum ('silver') or black anodized finish to match the DHT PRE's top panel (or you can mix and match). On the bottom of the covers are two small L-brackets (180 degrees from each other) that allow you to screw them down to the top panel via two small 4-40 screws per cover. I don't use them, but I know for some, they want to cover the large tube's glass from pets and children, so the covers have their purpose (and I do find them needed to shield the 205D tubes from picking up hum because those tubes have high plate resistance and really need the shielding to be as close to hum-free as possible).
Vinnie
Vinnie,
Will the tube covers be light tight? There are times that I listen in total darkness.
Steve
-
Vinnie,
Will the tube covers be light tight? There are times that I listen in total darkness.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Yes - and they can be installed / removed at any time (for those who want or don't want them in place).
Vinnie
-
All,
LIO DHT PRE's are well into production! :singing:
I am still aiming to start shipping from the order queue early June.
This will be another game-changer for sure!
Vinnie
-
Great to hear Vinnie! I'm pretty excited.
I may have a schedule issue in June for accepting delivery... If so, I will definitely contact you asap to arange timing.
Jason
-
Great to hear Vinnie! I'm pretty excited.
I may have a schedule issue in June for accepting delivery... If so, I will definitely contact you asap to arange timing.
Jason
Hi Jason,
No problem at all - just let me know when the time gets closer.
Best regards,
Vinnie
-
Tonight I was able to spend some time with the DHT thanks to Vinnie coming over for a few hours of listening and fun.
Here are my initial thoughts:
Want to add weight, texture, depth, layering, and more without sacrificing speed, slam, and clarity?
Get a LIO DHT!!
All kidding aside, the DHT takes what the AVC/Tubestage offers and makes it better.
Don't think traditional SET sound...that isn't what the DHT offers. It is not overly sweet or liquid sounding and is definitely not a traditional tubey sound that is rolled off at the extremes.
We tried two different tubes:
The stock 2A3's that ship with the LIO DHT and a pair of SV811's that Vinnie used at Axpona.
While the 2A3 tubes were excellent and bested the Siemens CCa Grey Plates that I use in the AVC/tubestage LIO, the SV 811's could really rock and added some additional body and texture that fleshed things out.
Highly recommended!!
Here is a quick picture taken from my phone:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143521)
George
-
:o :duh: :nono: :oops: :tempted: :duel:
My struggles within.
-
Tonight I was able to spend some time with the DHT thanks to Vinnie coming over for a few hours of listening and fun.
Here are my initial thoughts:
Want to add weight, texture, depth, layering, and more without sacrificing speed, slam, and clarity?
Get a LIO DHT!!
All kidding aside, the DHT takes what the AVC/Tubestage offers and makes it better.
Don't think traditional SET sound...that isn't what the DHT offers. It is not overly sweet or liquid sounding and is definitely not a traditional tubey sound that is rolled off at the extremes.
We tried two different tubes:
The stock 2A3's that ship with the LIO DHT and a pair of SV811's that Vinnie used at Axpona.
While the 2A3 tubes were excellent and bested the Siemens CCa Grey Plates that I use in the AVC/tubestage LIO, the SV 811's could really rock and added some additional body and texture that fleshed things out.
Highly recommended!!
George
I've got to quit reading this forum. I was 100% thrilled with the AVC/tubestage...
-
I've got to quit reading this forum. I was 100% thrilled with the AVC/tubestage...
Me too!
The AVC/Tubestage is still outstanding and I love listening to it.
If money wasn't a factor, I don't think too many people would choose the AVC/Tubestage over the DHT.
But since Vinnie isn't giving away the DHT, I fully appreciate that there is an impactful price difference and this could be a tough decision.
George
-
:D :thumb: :bounce: :weights: :banana piano:
My excitement grows.
-
DHT ordered! :hyper:
-
It was my mock post that did it, wasn't it? j/k 8)
-
I think the LIO has been by far the single best purchase in audio I have made (in a vast sea of bad decisions)...How could I say no to the DHT? I'm in.
David
-
I've got to quit reading this forum. I was 100% thrilled with the AVC/tubestage...
Ditto.
Steve
-
Tonight I was able to spend some time with the DHT thanks to Vinnie coming over for a few hours of listening and fun.
....
Highly recommended!!
George
F^&*.... I just got with AVC and now I need to get this DHT :duh: :lol: :green:
Thank you George for the feedback- appreciate the time you spent on this.
Vinnie- possible to bring a bunch of these modules to Newport ? :P
regards,
Kishore
-
F^&*.... I just got with AVC and now I need to get this DHT :duh: :lol: :green:
Thank you George for the feedback- appreciate the time you spent on this.
Vinnie- possible to bring a bunch of these modules to Newport ? :P
regards,
Kishore
Hi Kishore,
I wish I will have them ready by then, but they won't start shipping until after the show. Still waiting on the new top panels and tube covers, and I was updated that I should see them first week of June. So we're not too far off.
I definitely lost a few days of work in the last two weeks while I've been sick with sinus infection / bronchitis, but I'm getting stronger and will be working late hours between now and even after the show to get the DHT PRE pre-orders ready to ship throughout June.
Thanks again for all your interest, support and patience while we build away.
I hope many of you get to come to the Newport Beach show to hear a fully loaded LIO with DHT PRE drive the excellent Volti Vittoras and Triode Wire Labs cabling. We had a fine sounding room last Fall at the New York Audio Show, and with DHT PRE now in the mix, I think we'll do even better next week at Newport! 8)
(PS: A LIO-powered microRendu for digital and an Acoustic Signature "Triple X" turntable will be the sources, so please bring your music: Vinyl, CD, USB stick...)
Back to work for me! :whip:
Vinnie
-
And another one is in, just choosing colors while I wait :green:
-
And another one is in, just choosing colors while I wait :green:
Colors for what?
-
Colors for what?
I already have 2 top panels, a solid black and clear acrylic. I think I'll go silver top this time, to match the silver knobs :thumb:
-
I already have 2 top panels, a solid black and clear acrylic. I think I'll go silver top this time, to match the silver knobs :thumb:
Ah, yes, big decisions. :lol: 8)
-
I already have 2 top panels, a solid black and clear acrylic. I think I'll go silver top this time, to match the silver knobs :thumb:
The silver top is sharp and a nice contrast - that's what Vinnie had with him yesterday.
Unfortunately, the top was off when I took a few pics. :-(
That said, I will miss having the clear acrylic top.
George
-
That said, I will miss having the clear acrylic top.
George
My lips are sealed. :)
-
Vinnie,
Does the DHT version output module replacement retain the single set of balanced outputs if currently optioned that way? It looks like the panel is rather cozy already.
-
Vinnie,
Does the DHT version output module replacement retain the single set of balanced outputs if currently optioned that way? It looks like the panel is rather cozy already.
Hi TomS,
I will be shipping either a standard LIO OUPTUTS or LIO BAL OUTPUTS with the DHT PRE (based on which one you already own), and in either case, there will be a power jack installed for the filament supply.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143577&size=small)
Yes - it is *very* cozy, but I got it to fit. For the LIO BAL OUTPUTS, the jack will moved over between the FIXED and VAR
outputs. I tested it with even larger RCA plugs it is clears!
The cable coming out of the LIO DHT PRE supply it split into 2 plugs (one that replaces the stock LIO power adapter and
goes to the POWER IN jack, and the other goes to the LIO OUTPUTS power jack, and it is inserted and screwed onto the
threads that lock it in place. The cables are shielded.
I hope to have more pics to share right after the Newport Beach show, and then after that there will be much needed updates
to our website. :wink:
Vinnie
-
Most excellent :thumb:
-
Vinnie,
Does the DHT version output module replacement retain the single set of balanced outputs if currently optioned that way? It looks like the panel is rather cozy already.
It does...as I watched Vinnie put in an output module with an XLR when he was over on Monday night.
If that didn't happen, I wouldn't have been able to go with the DHT as my amps are XLR only.
George
-
All,
I forgot to mention:
Once I get the DHT PRE pre-orders shipped out, I plan to have a couple different pair of tubes available to ship to
AC members in the USA to try, post their findings, and ship out to the next person interested in trying. These
particular sets would not be for sale - but something fun for LIO DHT PRE owners to try and see if they like, and
if yes, they can order for themselves online.
It's easy and fun trying DHTs with LIO DHT PRE's convertible design. :guitar: :singing: :idea:
Give me about a month and I'll be ready to send out a few pair to AC members. EML mesh plate 2A3's, anyone? :wink:
Vinnie
-
All,
I forgot to mention:
Once I get the DHT PRE pre-orders shipped out, I plan to have a couple different pair of tubes available to ship to
AC members in the USA to try, post their findings, and ship out to the next person interested in trying. These
particular sets would not be for sale - but something fun for LIO DHT PRE owners to try and see if they like, and
if yes, they can order for themselves online.
It's easy and fun trying DHTs with LIO DHT PRE's convertible design. :guitar: :singing: :idea:
Give me about a month and I'll be ready to send out a few pair to AC members. EML mesh plate 2A3's, anyone? :wink:
Vinnie
Very nice, I need a "like" button :green:
-
Very nice, I need a "like" button :green:
Yes, sign me up buttercup!
-
All,
I forgot to mention:
Once I get the DHT PRE pre-orders shipped out, I plan to have a couple different pair of tubes available to ship to
AC members in the USA to try, post their findings, and ship out to the next person interested in trying. These
particular sets would not be for sale - but something fun for LIO DHT PRE owners to try and see if they like, and
if yes, they can order for themselves online.
It's easy and fun trying DHTs with LIO DHT PRE's convertible design. :guitar: :singing: :idea:
Give me about a month and I'll be ready to send out a few pair to AC members. EML mesh plate 2A3's, anyone? :wink:
Vinnie
Great idea and program Vinnie.
While the stock tubes and the SV 811's aren't too pricey, the EML and Sophia tubes are seriously expensive.
George
-
All,
I forgot to mention:
Once I get the DHT PRE pre-orders shipped out, I plan to have a couple different pair of tubes available to ship to
AC members in the USA to try, post their findings, and ship out to the next person interested in trying. These
particular sets would not be for sale - but something fun for LIO DHT PRE owners to try and see if they like, and
if yes, they can order for themselves online.
It's easy and fun trying DHTs with LIO DHT PRE's convertible design. :guitar: :singing: :idea:
Give me about a month and I'll be ready to send out a few pair to AC members. EML mesh plate 2A3's, anyone? :wink:
Vinnie
Awesome. What a good idea! Very kind and generous of you, too. Im sure you will build in insurance to cover yourself but still, quite generous.
Jason
-
the EML and Sophia tubes are seriously expensive.
George
I"m not going there...I'm not going there...I'm not going there...
-
Awesome. What a good idea! Very kind and generous of you, too. Im sure you will build in insurance to cover yourself but still, quite generous.
Jason
I'll include good packaging and as long as everyone uses it, I highly doubt there will be loss/damage. If that were to happen, of course
I will take responsibility. No worries about paying insurance when you ship to the next user (the time required to fight the claim and follow up, get stuck on the phone for hours, etc. is not worth it). Just get a tracking number to send to the next user and I think we'll be OK.
I"m not going there...I'm not going there...I'm not going there...
:tempted: :green:
-
:tempted: :green:
You have done enough of that to me over the last few months. :oops:
-
You have done enough of that to me over the last few months. :oops:
I'm planning on binging my LIO to the NC G2G on June 18. Too bad that DHT setup will not be ready. haha. Maybe then I could do the same to them. :lol:
-
Hi Steve,
Yes - and they can be installed / removed at any time (for those who want or don't want them in place).
Vinnie
Vinnie will enclosing the tubes in the covers while operating the unit shorten the lifespan of the Tubes?
-
All,
I forgot to mention:
Once I get the DHT PRE pre-orders shipped out, I plan to have a couple different pair of tubes available to ship to
AC members in the USA to try, post their findings, and ship out to the next person interested in trying. These
particular sets would not be for sale - but something fun for LIO DHT PRE owners to try and see if they like, and
if yes, they can order for themselves online.
It's easy and fun trying DHTs with LIO DHT PRE's convertible design. :guitar: :singing: :idea:
Give me about a month and I'll be ready to send out a few pair to AC members. EML mesh plate 2A3's, anyone? :wink:
Vinnie
Great idea, hopefully my last night pre-order will be running by that time
-
Hi all,
I have a potentially dumb question. Does the external power supply for the DHT PRE negate any benefit of the ultracapacitors?
Thanks in advance.
-
Hi all,
I have a potentially dumb question. Does the external power supply for the DHT PRE negate any benefit of the ultracapacitors?
Thanks in advance.
No, not at all.
-
Vinnie will enclosing the tubes in the covers while operating the unit shorten the lifespan of the Tubes?
It won't. Covers have been used forever on tubes. The filaments and metal elements inside can take the heat. Heck, the filament/cathode is the the one creating it...
So I am a self declared DHT junkie and am really interested in this implementation. That said, I have a few questions about the implementation. What voltages can you select for the filament supply (with 4A tubes usable, it has enough current to run anything)? Are the filaments supplied with AC or DC? Without going into your design (unless you want to), what is the voltage you put on the plate? I ask because there are a few DHTs that I love (mostly those with thoriated tungsten filaments), but are not on your list. Looking forward to your answers.
As an aside, I have about 20 WE 101Ds and never had a hum traceable to the tubes. Not saying it does not happen, but they are not usually hum prone in my experience. That said, I also only use DC on the filaments (that is a huge debate not suitable for this forum).
One last thing. the Western Electric 101Ds use a UV tube socket (4 small pins all the same size). The Lio has UX tube sockets (two big pins (for the filament) and two small pins). If you want to use original 101Ds, you will likely need adapters (some sockets will allow a UV tube to lean against the filament connections, but that is a recipe for disaster in my opinion).
-
Vinnie-
What's the DHT like with the HPA?
-
No, not at all.
Is this because it's simply heating the tube and isn't involved in the circuitry? I feel like I'm putting jumper cables on a 70's diesel Mercedes :)
-
Vinnie will enclosing the tubes in the covers while operating the unit shorten the lifespan of the Tubes?
Hi yardbird4 - not at all, and remember that we are using the DHTs in the linestage (not as a speaker power amp, so
we are already running them much cooler and treating them with kid gloves, so they should last a very long time).
I have a potentially dumb question. Does the external power supply for the DHT PRE negate any benefit of the ultracapacitors?
Hi Matthew,
No - we still use LIO's ultracapacitor supply for the DHTs. And we used the external linear supply to feed custom Belleson super-regulator
circuits "SPVR" (1 for each tube) that is only used for heating the tubes. This is *mostly likely* the cleanest filament supply (low microVolt noise level) around! 8)
What voltages can you select for the filament supply (with 4A tubes usable, it has enough current to run anything)?
Hi sfox7076,
The SPVR's each have a 3-way slide switch to select: 2.5V, 4V, and 5V (DC). You can run up to 4A for each tube - no problem.
But do NOT use any tube not listed on our DHT PRE website w/o first consulting with me. I am sure there are other 4-pin DHT's
that should work, but I would want to look into it first to avoid any problems. I don't mind trying them first in my LIO - just to
be sure it all works correctly.
I don't wish to go into other specific details of this very unique design. There are companies that exist with no shame about copying. :evil: Some of them even come to your room at a show, snoop inside your product, and don't even introduce themselves. Luckily this is not the case with Audiocircle manufacturers. :)
As an aside, I have about 20 WE 101Ds and never had a hum traceable to the tubes. Not saying it does not happen, but they are not usually hum prone in my experience.
I tried a 205-D (new production, from China) that had the hum problem until the cover was installed.
For the WE 101D's that you have, are you using them in the linestage, or in an SET Amp? Because in the linestage, it's a whole different
ballgame with regards to noise/hum...
If you want to use original 101Ds, you will likely need adapters (some sockets will allow a UV tube to lean against the filament connections, but that is a recipe for disaster in my opinion).
Thank you for sharing this information. I was looking at the replica 101-D / 205-D tubes (e.g. Psvane), which appear to have UX4.
I will look into where to get UV to UX adapters. But I'm sure there will not be many using the rare/expensive original WE 101-D's. :wink:
What's the DHT like with the HPA?
Delicious! :drool:
Vinnie
-
Delicious! :drool:
Vinnie
:hyper:
-
It is used in a line stage function. And I was of thinking of the 26, 10Y, or the 01A. The slide does kill my dream of the 10Y as it is 7.5v at 1.25A and the 26 as it is 1.5V at 1.05A. All that said, the 01A is awesome and the only one that I have had microphonic issues with. I have no real experience with the newly made 101Ds and only limited experience with 205Ds. The new 101Ds sounded so poor to me that I could not listen to them for long periods. The 01A is, to me, the most interesting in the lot and the cheapest. They are hard to deal with at times because they are very microphonic, and really need to be run at a lower voltage then spec. I am not sure if you could run an 01A at 4 volts, but if you did, it would probably be amazing. They are dirt cheap, they only draw .25A and they are thoriated tungsten filaments. If you could run those, you might get some interesting magic. They also light up like light bulbs... https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/029/0/01A.pdf
One observation, the 101D is rated at 4.5V at 1A. Unlike almost all other tubes, it is a current based filament. I suppose if one used a CCS supply at 1A, it would perform the best. No one does that very much until you hit really labor intensive applications where biasing is needed, or you add in some other features no one needs to discuss here. That said, I wonder if you had hum and dropped the voltage to 4v, it may subside. You would be within the +/- on the filament and it should tame any microphonics.
If you are patient, you can get real WE 101Ds for less than the current replicas. I have a bunch and only spent a lot on one pair (original globes).
-
Hi sfox7076,
I haven't played with those, and in general I am curious how tubes with a plate resistance greater than around 2.5k is going to
work out. I'd like to see how it works with the 01A.
They also light up like light bulbs... https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/029/0/01A.pdf
Cool - the thoriated tungsten filaments are gorgeous! I like how the Svetlana 811 and 572s have this.
If you are patient, you can get real WE 101Ds for less than the current replicas. I have a bunch and only spent a lot on one pair (original globes).
Patience, you say? Hmmmmm :lol:
Have a fun weekend,
Vinnie
-
Vinnie,
Do you have a 'specially configured' NUDE RVC in the shop that will work without the DHT? I was curious how the various volume controls would compare to each other in sound quality? NUDE RVC at number 2 or does it outperform the AVC.
1. RVC Premium Vishay/Dale film resistors
2. NUDE RVC Custom version of RVC with all Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors, point-to-point wired onto the signal relays
3. AVC Autoformer volume control
4. AVC-S Autoformer volume control Silver (special order)
Steve
-
How tall is the LIO with the DHT tubes installed?
-
How tall is the LIO with the DHT tubes installed?
Covered earlier in the thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142673.msg1523451#msg1523451 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142673.msg1523451#msg1523451)
-
Covered earlier in the thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142673.msg1523451#msg1523451 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142673.msg1523451#msg1523451)
Missed that! Thanks for the heads up.
-
Vinnie,
Do you have a 'specially configured' NUDE RVC in the shop that will work without the DHT? I was curious how the various volume controls would compare to each other in sound quality? NUDE RVC at number 2 or does it outperform the AVC.
1. RVC Premium Vishay/Dale film resistors
2. NUDE RVC Custom version of RVC with all Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors, point-to-point wired onto the signal relays
3. AVC Autoformer volume control
4. AVC-S Autoformer volume control Silver (special order)
Steve
Hi Steve,
NUDE RVC is only offered for DHT PRE, so it can't be ranked against the passive AVC.
In fact, AVC (w/o tubestage) is no longer going to be offered. Going forward, the 3 linestage options will be:
1) RVC + Tubestage
2) AVC/Tubestage (and one could use the jumpers to bypass the tubestage section of this if they only want to use AVC
for some silly reason :green:)
3) DHT PRE
Unlike the LIO Tubestage and AVC/Tubestage, the DHT PRE is not a cathode follower ("tube buffer") topology. DHT PRE
provides voltage and current gain, and I found a while back that it sounds best with the NUDE RVC (no voltage gain) in front of it.
DHT PRE is a very high bandwidth design (flat response well over 100kHz, and into the 500kHz range with 300B and 2A3's I've
tested). You lose this bandwidth with AVC.
AVC/Tubestage is different in that the AVCs provide the voltage gain, and the tubestage buffered output provides the current gain.
They work great together!
I hope this helps,
Vinnie
-
Vinnie,
Thanks for the info.
When will DHTs that are ordered today ship?
Steve
-
Vinnie,
Thanks for the info.
When will DHTs that are ordered today ship?
Steve
See here.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134307.msg1529556#msg1529556
-
Hi Steve,
NUDE RVC is only offered for DHT PRE, so it can't be ranked against the passive AVC.
In fact, AVC (w/o tubestage) is no longer going to be offered. Going forward, the 3 linestage options will be:
1) RVC + Tubestage
2) AVC/Tubestage (and one could use the jumpers to bypass the tubestage section of this if they only want to use AVC
for some silly reason :green:)
3) DHT PRE
Unlike the LIO Tubestage and AVC/Tubestage, the DHT PRE is not a cathode follower ("tube buffer") topology. DHT PRE
provides voltage and current gain, and I found a while back that it sounds best with the NUDE RVC (no voltage gain) in front of it.
DHT PRE is a very high bandwidth design (flat response well over 100kHz, and into the 500kHz range with 300B and 2A3's I've
tested). You lose this bandwidth with AVC.
AVC/Tubestage is different in that the AVCs provide the voltage gain, and the tubestage buffered output provides the current gain.
They work great together!
I hope this helps,
Vinnie
Interesting. So the DHT Pre is probably a common cathode gain stage without a cathode follower. What is your predicted/measured output impedance? Is it cap coupled or transformer coupled to the output? What outputs (RCA/XLR) are offered? And overall gain in dB?
Thanks,
Anand.
-
When will DHTs that are ordered today ship?
Hi Steve,
To be safe, I'd say mid-July. I didn't expect so many pre-orders :o, so I'm ordering all the parts
for another batch of DHT PREs.
Hi Anand,
Please refer to:
http://vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/
and check out 6moons' 3-page preview that goes into lots of detail:
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/1.html
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/2.html
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/3.html
8)
Vinnie
-
Hi Steve,
To be safe, I'd say mid-July. I didn't expect so many pre-orders :o, so I'm ordering all the parts
for another batch of DHT PREs.
Vinnie
Vinnie,
Thanks, order placed. I'm going to be real antsy by mid July. That's what I get for procrastinating. I'm also on the microRendu list for the second batch.
Steve
-
Vinnie,
Thanks, order placed. I'm going to be real antsy by mid July. That's what I get for procrastinating. I'm also on the microRendu list for the second batch.
Steve
All,
I received a lot more DHT PRE pre-orders than I imagined! For those that ordered in the 2nd half of May, those
orders probably won't start shipping until later next month and into July.
For those that pre-ordered in the first half of May, those orders will ship in the queue all throughout June.
THANK YOU for all your orders and patience! :notworthy:
Vinnie
-
All,
I received a lot more DHT PRE pre-orders than I imagined! For those that ordered in the 2nd half of May, those
orders probably won't start shipping until later next month and into July.
For those that pre-ordered in the first half of May, those orders will ship in the queue all throughout June.
THANK YOU for all your orders and patience! :notworthy:
Vinnie
That's awesome! Happy for you and Alexis. :thumb: Go team Vinnie, or, uh, Alexis! Team LIO! :lol:
This keeps up and you're going to need an online queue progress tracker. 8)
-
Too bad I cannot grab the May's discount on DHT, but given the waiting list I might have enough time to save some more by the time the delivery turnaround gets under 3 weeks. :)
-
Too bad I cannot grab the May's discount on DHT, but given the waiting list I might have enough time to save some more by the time the delivery turnaround gets under 3 weeks. :)
It's still May.
-
Too bad I cannot grab the May's discount on DHT, but given the waiting list I might have enough time to save some more by the time the delivery turnaround gets under 3 weeks. :)
Today is May 31st. :green:
George
-
My wait is going to have to be a little longer than thought... Even though I order right a way, I have a few things going on in June, So I have arranged to have Vinnie ship mine the last week of June. Ugh! :duh: oh well.
I just hope you guys give early reports to tide some of us over!
-
Too bad I cannot grab the May's discount on DHT, but given the waiting list I might have enough time to save some more by the time the delivery turnaround gets under 3 weeks. :)
You have until Jun 1 11.59pm EST :lol:
Ok I bit the bullet :o :oops: - and Vinne, July timing works ok for me since I have to move out soon.
Regards,
Kishore
-
My wait is going to have to be a little longer than thought... Even though I order right a way, I have a few things going on in June, So I have arranged to have Vinnie ship mine the last week of June. Ugh! :duh: oh well.
I just hope you guys give early reports to tide some of us over!
I'm calling dibs on yours. :lol:
-
All,
Ok, I received another 5 orders in the last 24 hours :o :o :o
I'm flooded and can't wait until this evening to turn off the pre-order page. :wink:
I am ordering more parts today and when I return next week. I really didn't anticipate nearly this
many orders (especially from LIO customers trading-in AVC/Tubestage and RVC + Tubestage). Next
time I can't make the deal quite this good I guess! :green: :banghead: But I'm glad I did, and
all I ask for is your patience while we build away. It will be well worth the wait!
Today I am packing for Newport and leaving early tomorrow AM. It's going to be a great show!
Thanks again, everyone!
Vinnie
-
All,
Ok, I received another 5 orders in the last 24 hours :o :o :o
I'm flooded and can't wait until this evening to turn off the pre-order page. :wink:
I am ordering more parts today and when I return next week. I really didn't anticipate nearly this
many orders (especially from LIO customers trading-in AVC/Tubestage and RVC + Tubestage). Next
time I can't make the deal quite this good I guess! :green: :banghead: But I'm glad I did, and
all I ask for is your patience while we build away. It will be well worth the wait!
Today I am packing for Newport and leaving early tomorrow AM. It's going to be a great show!
Thanks again, everyone!
Vinnie
Great news Vinnie! :thumb: My only regret of the LIO is not doing it sooner before the price increase. Glad I got the DHT at the intro price though. I encourage others to do so too. I just don't see how anyone can be disappointed and if they don't like the DHT, no problem, trade it back for something else. It really is that simple!
Just make sure you have time for R&D. We like more LIO goodies. :green:
Safe travels and be sure to update us when there. 8)
-
I'm flooded and can't wait until this evening to turn off the pre-order page. :wink:
Just a quick question, Vinnie. Your order page for the DHT-LIO is less clear about when the $4995 price ends. The $5995 option describes it as "price after June 1st, 2016"; then right below it it says that $4995 is the "pre-order price until June 1st, 2016". What is the price for tomorrow, June 1?
-
Just a quick question, Vinnie. Your order page for the DHT-LIO is less clear about when the $4995 price ends. The $5995 option describes it as "price after June 1st, 2016"; then right below it it says that $4995 is the "pre-order price until June 1st, 2016". What is the price for tomorrow, June 1?
Price until June 1st is $4995. June 1st (mid night tonight) it goes to $5995 is how I interpret that.
Get those orders in....operators standing by. :lol:
-
I thought the website pushed the preamp to $8000 with the DHT option?
-
I thought the website pushed the preamp to $8000 with the DHT option?
It all depends on what modules you get. The cost of the DHT is $4995/$5995 then add your other modules if you want.
-
So, do I understand correctly that $5k will get a preamp using the DHT module?
Frankly, I'm a little confused with all the options available.
-
No, 5K will get you the DHT option. You still need to order the base unit (case, power supply, remote,...) as well as any other modules you might want.
-
Today is May 31st. :green:
George
:) I know, but my idea was to use it as a single box: DHT, line inputs, DAC, MOSFET AMP and Phono stage. ...it sets around $10.5k
I am getting close towards this, but not there yet.
Anyhow, glad to see the things are moving and eventually I will hop in. The $10.5 or $11.5k will be pretty much the same when I tell it to my wife :lol:
-
Price until June 1st is $4995. June 1st (mid night tonight) it goes to $5995 is how I interpret that.
This is correct, and this is just for the LIO DHT PRE (module, external power supply, new top cover, tube
covers, Nude RVC module). It does NOT include the LIO base unit or other modules.
So, do I understand correctly that $5k will get a preamp using the DHT module?
Frankly, I'm a little confused with all the options available.
Hi Maritan,
Sorry for the confusion - we're working on a big update to our website and it should be ready in a few weeks.
It will *hopefully* make it much easier to understand the LIO options.
Just make sure you have time for R&D. We like more LIO goodies. :green:
Safe travels and be sure to update us when there. 8)
Hi jtwrace,
More LIO goodies are always in the works, and I'll post updates from the show when I can!
Thanks again,
Vinnie
-
All,
Ok, I received another 5 orders in the last 24 hours :o :o :o
I'm flooded and can't wait until this evening to turn off the pre-order page. :wink:
I am ordering more parts today and when I return next week. I really didn't anticipate nearly this
many orders (especially from LIO customers trading-in AVC/Tubestage and RVC + Tubestage). Next
time I can't make the deal quite this good I guess! :green: :banghead: But I'm glad I did, and
all I ask for is your patience while we build away. It will be well worth the wait!
Today I am packing for Newport and leaving early tomorrow AM. It's going to be a great show!
Thanks again, everyone!
Vinnie
Too funny! Glad business is booming for you and glad that I'm on the preorder bandwagon for this one. I'm also glad that I'm in absolutely no hurry as I've got almost as much to do in the next few months as you do! :). Thanks as always for your stellar customer service.
-
No, 5K will get you the DHT option. You still need to order the base unit (case, power supply, remote,...) as well as any other modules you might want.
Hi Maritan,
Sorry for the confusion - we're working on a big update to our website and it should be ready in a few weeks.
It will *hopefully* make it much easier to understand the LIO options.
Thanks both for the clarification. It looks like the LIO is not in my near future. Can't swing >$7k at this time. Looks very interesting though. Will definitely keep an eye on further developments.
-
Thanks both for the clarification. It looks like the LIO is not in my near future. Can't swing >$7k at this time. Looks very interesting though. Will definitely keep an eye on further developments.
You could do what I do and start with rvc, DAC, and amp and it was very reasonably priced. I'm now in the process of upgrading a year later while I saved up and will get credit for my old units I turn in. Best of both worlds! :)
-
You could do what I do and start with rvc, DAC, and amp and it was very reasonably priced. I'm now in the process of upgrading a year later while I saved up and will get credit for my old units I turn in. Best of both worlds! :)
That's right. Buy today and trade in for the same exact cost that you paid. Doesn't get any better than that! :thumb:
-
All,
I forgot to mention:
Once I get the DHT PRE pre-orders shipped out, I plan to have a couple different pair of tubes available to ship to
AC members in the USA to try, post their findings, and ship out to the next person interested in trying. These
particular sets would not be for sale - but something fun for LIO DHT PRE owners to try and see if they like, and
if yes, they can order for themselves online.
It's easy and fun trying DHTs with LIO DHT PRE's convertible design. :guitar: :singing: :idea:
Give me about a month and I'll be ready to send out a few pair to AC members. EML mesh plate 2A3's, anyone? :wink:
Vinnie
Vinnie as you know I have disavowed being a tube roller of any sort but in preparing to receive my pre-order of the DHT Pre module, I confess that I have been researching and reading up on different tubes. I read a glowing report on the Emission Labs 45's. Just planting a seed! :D
-
Vinnie as you know I have disavowed being a tube roller of any sort but in preparing to receive my pre-order of the DHT Pre module, I confess that I have been researching and reading up on different tubes. I read a glowing report on the Emission Labs 45's. Just planting a seed! :D
Hi yardbird4,
I'll have to check those out next! I'll contact George Lens (Tubesusa / importer of Emission Labs) and see if I can get a pair...
This weekend I also met Rachel of Grant Fidelity. She imports Psvane and Shuguang Treasure tubes from Asia (a few different models of 2A3 and 300B, as well as 101D/205D replica tubes), so I hope to try those out in the future as well!
All,
I landed at midnight in Boston and was back home at 1am. We're building DHT PRE kits and hope to start shipping early next week. All parts should be in by the end of this week (including top panels and tube covers). I'm also finalizing the installation manual for those who are upgrading their DHT PRE.
Website will be updated with new pics and a cleaner layout soon as well - hopefully in just a couple of weeks.
More soon!
Vinnie
-
Hey Vinnie,
Post pics of the tube covers whenever you get the chance. Hoping to see both looks. I still need to choose my color :scratch:
Thanks!
-
Hey Vinnie,
Post pics of the tube covers whenever you get the chance. Hoping to see both looks. I still need to choose my color :scratch:
Thanks!
I'm going all black. Case, top, knobs & covers.
-
I'm going all black. Case, top, knobs & covers.
Ive ordered black chassis, black knobs, silver top. Getting the glow/reflection w/ the silver top will be cool.
-
Ive ordered black chassis, black knobs, silver top. Getting the glow/reflection w/ the silver top will be cool.
No doubt! I just like no lights when listening as I tend to do more listening in the dark. 8)
-
I'm going all black. Case, top, knobs & covers.
Same here.
Although some silver knobs could look good as well...
George
-
I have black case, silver knobs which I really like. I ordered silver top, silver tube covers, but I'd like to see it with the covers first.
-
Same here.
Although some silver knobs could look good as well...
George
That's a good contrast. The silver knobs make the LIO look "Levinsonian". I've been running topless for the past few weeks while I screw around with cartridge loading. Yes, I hear the relays, but it doesn't bother me.
-
Another tube for LIO DHT PRE! :hyper:
Just received a pair of matched NOS Cunningham CX301-A tubes!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144541)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144540)
5V, 0.25A filaments (cool running). Higher plate resistance (about 10k), and they
have very rich tone, thicker bass, and a very sweet top end. If your speakers
are on the "dry / analytical" side and you want a richer, more toobey sound, these
are worth a listen! :singing:
They pick up some hum, but I will try with the metal tube covers to see if it goes away (it should).
I have a feeling there will be even more to add to the growing list of NOS 4-pin DHTs that will work
in LIO DHT PRE... Wink2
Vinnie
-
Vinnie,
Try to tun them at the lower heater voltage (if you can). The microphonics and hum will go down a lot. It's an amazing tube.
Shawn
-
Vinnie,
Try to tun them at the lower heater voltage (if you can). The microphonics and hum will go down a lot. It's an amazing tube.
Shawn
Hi Shawn,
Will do (I'll try at 4V this evening). I really like this tube:
- low microphonics
- Barely any heat - doesn't even get warm!
- Shorter height and no heat is great for tighter spaces
- Nice glow! (but not as illuminating as the SV811 / SV572)
Perhaps other 01-A tubes will work just as well?
Thanks for the recommendation!
Vinnie
-
I really like this tube:
Vinnie
Just tell me which tube to buy and I will. I'd much prefer to go the less is more route. :) You know what I prefer sonically now. :oops:
-
Vinnie,
Glad it is sparking interest and really bringing you some joy. Especially awesome when the tubes are usually less than $75 per pair NOS (assuming just RCA or Cunningham).
All of the 01A tubes are basically the same tube (except for really early brass base ones with short UV pins (like the WE 101Ds), they are UV-201As). The 01 (not 01A) would also work in your circuit I am sure as they are the same tube with a 5v, 1A draw, but they also cost about 4 times the price and were last made in 1925 or so. Anyway, the 01A tubes were rebranded and made by about 100 different makers. 01A, 201A, 301A are all the same. UX-201A, CX-301A, OK-201A, etc. All the same tube... Cunningham and RCA are exactly the same in this time frame as the RCA v. Cunningham suit had concluded and RCA was making all Cunningham tubes. Those are the most commone ones. The ones to really look for are the ones with the oddball labels or boxes (if you get boxes). Those are collectible, and so are the ones with pointy tops where the glass is peaked. In any event, watch out buying them. They generally do not sound different than any of the others (except those that are microphoic or noisy and there are no real fancy makers of this tube (there is allegedly a Northern Electric version from Canada, but I have never seen one, and an Arcturus, but it isn't blue so I am not sure it commands a high price), and many of these tubes can be noisy at full filament voltage. Starve them at 4 volts and you should find sonic bliss regardless of the label. All that said, some are occassionally too noisy to be saved.
I have about 30 of them for my DIY linestage project (which should be coming together in time). The other great thing about 01A tubes is that you can regenerate them if they start to get worn out. That discussion is for another time, but man do I love those tubes. They will never be the tube of choice for an output tube because of low power. However, they only spec 1.25 Watts (5v x .25A) of power on the filaments to operate. If you run them at 4 volts, it's 1 Watt. I think that you will barely notice a sonic difference in the tube, but you will notice a lack of noise. Battery tubes can be awesome (and cheap!).
The only two other DHT tubes made that I like for preamp work that your line stage won't take are the 26 and the 10Y. I could be happy forever with 01As though. The 10Y is very different, but it needs 7.5 volts on the filament. The 26 only takes 1.5v (at 1.05A)! Making a linestage that includes all three of those tubes is my goal. That is my project, but I think it will involve a seperate power supply and possibly two different DHT modules. Sigh... I am following your project closely as it is the natural follow through to my DIY project if it fails.
I also love the 4P1L (DHP (direct heated pentode) that can be triode strapped), but it is a loktal socket, wrong voltage (only 2v) and is the most microphonic tube I have ever heard.
Shawn
-
The only two other DHT tubes made that I like for preamp work that your line stage won't take are the 26 and the 10Y. I could be happy forever with 01As though. The 10Y is very different, but it needs 7.5 volts on the filament. The 26 only takes 1.5v (at 1.05A)! Making a linestage that includes all three of those tubes is my goal. That is my project, but I think it will involve a seperate power supply and possibly two different DHT modules. Sigh... I am following your project closely as it is the natural follow through to my DIY project if it fails.
Shawn
Don't forget about the UX171 & UX171A variants, originally made by RCA in 1925! In one of my systems, I have a 171A Directly-Heated Triode Line stage (powered by dual mono tube regulated power supplies)... Superb sound but can be microphonic... Design started early 1925, adopted by RCA in October 1925 but available only at June 1926, replaced in November 1926 by the UX171A (oxide-coated filament). The UX171 has a thoriated tungsten filament, operating at 5 volts and 0.5 ampere. Delivers 0.7 watt output (plate dissipation) at the maximum recommended anode voltage of 180 volts.
Vinnie - I have a few pairs, if you ever want to try them...
Cheers,
Pete
-
You guys are traveling soooooo far down the rabbit hole with all these 90 year old tubes. What on earth have I signed up for :duh:
-
Another tube pile I have is 5-6 40 tubes. One day I will drop these in for an 01A somewhere. They have the same filaments and similar max plate voltages, but much lower grid voltage, higher plate resistance (150k), higher amplificaiton factor and lower transconductance. Odd tube.
-
Hi Shawn,
Thanks for your posts - I'll be trying other DHTs down the road!
Vinnie - I have a few pairs, if you ever want to try them...
Hi Triode Pete,
Sure - send them over the next time you send me cables! Thanks for letting me borrow them.
You guys are traveling soooooo far down the rabbit hole with all these 90 year old tubes. What on earth have I signed up for :duh:
Hi TomS,
Rabbit hole, hmmmm - reminds me of:
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Redpill
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/matrix/images/2/29/Redpill.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060821153653)
"You take the blue pill, and you enjoy the stock 2A3s (great tube!) - game over."
"You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and we show you how deep the rabbit hole goes with
the many DHT possibilities." 8)
They have the same filaments and similar max plate voltages, but much lower grid voltage, higher plate resistance (150k), higher amplificaiton factor and lower transconductance. Odd tube.
Yikes, 150k - way too high of a plate resistance for LIO DHT PRE. :icon_surprised:
LIO DHT PRE UPDATE
- We're building away and I hope to start shipping a few DHT PRE orders next week! :dance:
- The finish on the tube covers did not come out the way I wanted (too dull a finish, too rough texture),
so they will need to be redone. :banghead: In the meantime, I will still start shipping a few orders next week because I don't
want to hold up shipments. Then I will ship out the covers separately when they arrive.
- I have 220-240V transformers for the linear power supplies coming next week (for international customers).
- Top covers look great and I am ordering more of them because I did not plan for this many pre-orders.
I'll post another update early next week.
Vinnie
-
Glad to discuss this stuff. Update me when you try the 01A at 4v. Are there limitations on your power supply design that would stop you going to 7.5v? I get you may need a bigger transformer, resistors, etc. I assume not, but wanted to ask. I know that I ask a lot.
-
Here are a few pics of the LIO DHT without the cover and with the SV811 tubes. Sorry for the so-so image quality - these were taken with my phone instead of my DSLR.
These were taken when Vinnie brought over the DHT for a listen a few weeks ago.
Can't wait to get my DHT!!
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144597)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144598)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144599)
-
Hi yardbird4,
I'll have to check those out next! I'll contact George Lens (Tubesusa / importer of Emission Labs) and see if I can get a pair...
This weekend I also met Rachel of Grant Fidelity. She imports Psvane and Shuguang Treasure tubes from Asia (a few different models of 2A3 and 300B, as well as 101D/205D replica tubes), so I hope to try those out in the future as well!
Vinnie
Those EML 45's range in price from ~ $500-700 a pair!! Not saying if they are or aren't worth it...but that's a lot of coin. 2A3 and 300B are even more! :cry:
The Psvane and Shuguang are more affordable (but still far from inexpensive).
Hopefully, Vinnie will be able to get some and let us hear for ourselves.
George
-
I am a big fan of National Union ST shape 45s from the 40s and 50s. Worth a shot at $200 a pair max.
-
I am a big fan of National Union ST shape 45s from the 40s and 50s. Worth a shot at $200 a pair max.
Where do you get them?
George
-
Here is a pair I would not hesitate to buy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NATIONAL-UNION-45-BLACKPLATE-MATCHING-PAIR-EXCELLENT-/201596421735?hash=item2ef0154667:g:N~kAAOSwOVpXUNWA
-
One does need to dissuade themself of thinking that old tubes are easy to land. It's opportunistic and unfair. Grab what you can.
-
One does need to dissuade themself of thinking that old tubes are easy to land. It's opportunistic and unfair. Grab what you can.
Ain't that the truth!!
George
-
Those EML 45's range in price from ~ $500-700 a pair!! Not saying if they are or aren't worth it...but that's a lot of coin. 2A3 and 300B are even more! :cry:
The Psvane and Shuguang are more affordable (but still far from inexpensive).
Hopefully, Vinnie will be able to get some and let us hear for ourselves.
George
All,
I have EML 2A3 mesh plate, and EML 300B. Some 45's, some SV811 and SV572's, a pair of 205-D's (I think Psvane), a
pair of SR-71A's, and a few others. I'll be getting more.
By the end of this month, I'll start the road tour of tubes to LIO DHT PRE customers who want to try, and then they can
pass on to the new LIO DHT PRE customer. We'll get a list going in a few weeks.
Right now I need to stay focused on getting orders out!
Vinnie
-
Right now I need to stay focused on getting orders out!
Vinnie
:whip:
-
As Winston Churchill would say Vinnie is "in harness." Work Vinnie Work!
-
Yes, I'm guessing they're peddling as fast as they can on DHT's :green:
-
I wonder when the first batch ships. :D :scratch:
-
I wonder when the first batch ships. :D :scratch:
I thought Vinnie said next week.
George
-
I thought Vinnie said next week.
George
Ah, you're correct. I've been busy.
LIO DHT PRE UPDATE
- We're building away and I hope to start shipping a few DHT PRE orders next week! :dance:
I'll post another update early next week.
Vinnie
-
Yes, I'm guessing they're peddling as fast as they can on DHT's :green:
Ooh this gives me a good idea. :idea: Is there any way to replace the tubes with Hamsters on wheels? That way we could try Guatemalan Mountain Shrews for spa music, Bayou Nutria for Zydeco, and good ol' fashioned NYC sewer rats for Grunge/Punk/Metal. :banana piano: :beer:
-
As Winston Churchill would say Vinnie is "in harness." Work Vinnie Work!
All,
I don't have as much time as usual on the forum this week because we're busy building away DHT PRE.
But a few orders will begin shipping this week, and certainly more next week, and the week after that, and
the week after that......
I will say building DHT PRE is taking many more hours than I imagined (that's usually how it works out! :duh:),
and it has to be done very carefully. But I know it will be well-worth the wait to own it and become addicted
to how it sounds!
More updates soon.
Vinnie
-
All,
I don't have as much time as usual on the forum this week because we're busy building away DHT PRE.
But a few orders will begin shipping this week, and certainly more next week, and the week after that, and
the week after that......
I will say building DHT PRE is taking many more hours than I imagined (that's usually how it works out! :duh:),
and it has to be done very carefully. But I know it will be well-worth the wait to own it and become addicted
to how it sounds!
More updates soon.
Vinnie
Don't rush the wine ;-)
-
Lets see some "behind the scene" photo's. We love pics! :green:
-
Who else has received their DHT? What do you think???
-
I have had mine for four days now. I am using a National Union 45 tube. You want warm and sweet, you got it. You want an audio animal?
just raise the volume control, the soundstage gets bigger and bigger and the contents of this soundstage is rock solid. Bass is deep and tight.
You asked how I like it? I dont like it, I LOVE IT.
-
Nice. How does it compare to the 2A3? What is the rest of your setup?
-
I have had mine for four days now. I am using a National Union 45 tube. You want warm and sweet, you got it. You want an audio animal?
just raise the volume control, the soundstage gets bigger and bigger and the contents of this soundstage is rock solid. Bass is deep and tight.
You asked how I like it? I dont like it, I LOVE IT.
Would you like to buy my pair?
They aren't my cup of tea.
I greatly prefer the 2A3 and SV811.
Georgd
-
The EH 2A3 that came with the DHT was pretty good, it also presented a very big soundstage with solid contents, I did prefer the warmer
presentation of the 45. Remember it is early in the break in period and the EH may mellow out. My system is very simple. COAX out from
a CD player into DAC input of LIO into the DHT feeding the 25 watt mosfet amp which goes to a pair of Vandersteen 3A sig speakers. I have a well damped listening room. I dont know how many times I have to say that I cant believe that Vinnies 25 watts can sound this powerful.
-
Lets see some "behind the scene" photo's. We love pics! :green:
I went to Vinnie's center of operations yesterday and was mighty impressed!
I don't think it really dawned on me how many parts and pieces go into making a LIO until I saw the ridiculous amount of inventory he has on hand!
During the visit I was able to hear the system that Vinnie uses to evaluate his products/prototypes and just enjoy music. His system was incredibly resolving and musical - no wonder the LIO sounds so good. His soundstage seemed liked it was a mile deep and voices and instruments were very 3D like.
I could have listened for hours and hours, but I didn't want to keep Vinnie from continuing to make more LIO's and get them out to his customers.
Thanks Vinnie for letting me see how you create a truly ground breaking product.
George
-
I think a xxx @ Patriots game is on order...then a VR factory tour. :green: That would be badass!
-
I think a xxx @ Patriots game is on order...then a VR factory tour. :green: That would be badass!
Please not the Colts :green:
-
Please not the Colts :green:
I would prefer NYG....
Bills or Seahawks could be decent.
-
I went to Vinnie's center of operations yesterday and was mighty impressed!
I don't think it really dawned on me how many parts and pieces go into making a LIO until I saw the ridiculous amount of inventory he has on hand!
During the visit I was able to hear the system that Vinnie uses to evaluate his products/prototypes and just enjoy music. His system was incredibly resolving and musical - no wonder the LIO sounds so good. His soundstage seemed liked it was a mile deep and voices and instruments were very 3D like.
I could have listened for hours and hours, but I didn't want to keep Vinnie from continuing to make more LIO's and get them out to his customers.
Thanks Vinnie for letting me see how you create a truly ground breaking product.
George
Spill the beans--does he use the Harbeths at home?
-
Spill the beans--does he use the Harbeths at home?
Yes he does.
They are much bigger in person than they look online.
George
-
Yes he does.
They are much bigger in person than they look online.
George
And soon to have some Spatial's from what I've read. :thumb:
-
I have had mine for four days now. I am using a National Union 45 tube. You want warm and sweet, you got it. You want an audio animal? just raise the volume control, the soundstage gets bigger and bigger and the contents of this soundstage is rock solid. Bass is deep and tight.
You asked how I like it? I dont like it, I LOVE IT.
Hi Coldfogey,
Thank you for posting your initial impressions of your DHT PRE. I knew you were going to love it! 8)
I went to Vinnie's center of operations yesterday and was mighty impressed!
I don't think it really dawned on me how many parts and pieces go into making a LIO until I saw the ridiculous amount of inventory he has on hand!
During the visit I was able to hear the system that Vinnie uses to evaluate his products/prototypes and just enjoy music. His system was incredibly resolving and musical - no wonder the LIO sounds so good. His soundstage seemed liked it was a mile deep and voices and instruments were very 3D like.
I could have listened for hours and hours, but I didn't want to keep Vinnie from continuing to make more LIO's and get them out to his customers.
Thanks Vinnie for letting me see how you create a truly ground breaking product.
Hi George - my pleasure, and glad you enjoyed it and got to hear why I dig "the near field" :thumb:
Spill the beans--does he use the Harbeths at home?
And soon to have some Spatial's from what I've read. :thumb:
It's true, and I'm looking forward to what Clayton is cooking up! Get to RMAF this Fall if you can! :wink:
Vinnie
-
I picked up a pair of Spatial M4 Turbos (not Turbo S) a few weeks ago. I drive them with my LIO, sometimes in preamp mode with an external amp but mostly with the on board MOSFET amp. My LIO is configured with just the AVC (no tube stage) to keep the signal as transparent as possible. I can attest that this is a marvelously musical combination. Pricier power amps can give a little more slam and my tube amp adds a bit more "3D" but the LIO in basic integrated form is very difficult to beat with these speakers. Just IMHO, of course.
-
I received my DHT on Monday and installed it later that evening. My wife came in the room and listened for a few seconds (not knowing I'd made a change to the system) and said, "Wow, the music sounds more lifelike!"
-
These arrived today; now I just need a DHT. :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146008)
-
jtwrace,
45's, 300B, 2A3's... What are they?
-
jtwrace,
45's, 300B, 2A3's... What are they?
2A3 mesh plates
:dance: :singing: :bowdown:
George
-
Zoinks!! :o :o
So this is what I have to look forward too! :lol:
LIO is "out for delivery" today!!!! But Ill need through the busy holiday weekend...
-
Zoinks!! :o :o
So this is what I have to look forward too! :lol:
LIO is "out for delivery" today!!!! But Ill need through the busy holiday weekend...
Lucky dog!
-
Zoinks!! :o :o
So this is what I have to look forward too! :lol:
LIO is "out for delivery" today!!!! But Ill need through the busy holiday weekend...
Is your delivery the DHT kit to convert an existing LIO or the complete DHT LIO?
Lucky dog!
Either way, the above is true! :thumb:
Looking forward to your feedback.
-
All,
It appears that a package containing >$4000
of Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors went missing,
according to FedEx :cuss: :banghead:
It was insured, but the real problem is that it contained
the parts to make the next batch of 10 Nude RVC
modules that is part of the DHt PRE kit - and they are
all handmade resistors and have a 4 week lead-time :o
Needless to say that I'm working hard to get this package
recovered, and to get another batch made ASAP.
The good news is that I should have the tube covers sometime
next week and will start shipping those to everyone who didn't get
them with their DHT PRE.
Hang in there - we'll get through this during these dog days of
summer! :hyper:
Vinnie
-
All,
It appears that a package containing >$4000
of Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors went missing,
according to FedEx :cuss: :banghead:
It was insured, but the real problem is that it contained
the parts to make the next batch of 10 Nude RVC
modules that is part of the DHt PRE kit - and they are
all handmade resistors and have a 4 week lead-time :o
Needless to say that I'm working hard to get this package
recovered, and to get another batch made ASAP.
The good news is that I should have the tube covers sometime
next week and will start shipping those to everyone who didn't get
them with their DHT PRE.
Hang in there - we'll get through this during these dog days of
summer! :hyper:
Vinnie
Ouch! The Fedex guys must have started the holiday early :(
-
I'm sure they will find it...they usually do.
-
I'm sure they will find it...they usually do.
Well in the meantime, I'm still building DHT modules, DHT power supplies, matching tubes, and
more...
The action doesn't stop!
Vinnie
-
Well in the meantime, I'm still building DHT modules, DHT power supplies, matching tubes, and
more...
The action doesn't stop!
Vinnie
Good, cuz I'm impatient. :oops:
-
Got to tell my story of getting my DHT. I saw Vinnie and the DHT at Axpona and knew I had to have one. However you should know I am retired and of modest means and the DHT is not cheap. So after my blessed wife agreed and even came up with a clever way to pay for it I was beyond ecstatic. So I ordered one in early May. When my DHT was shipped (USPS btw) it was a Friday with 2 day shipping. So I tracked it on the USPS website and I knew it was in town within 2 miles of my house on Sunday afternoon. Man I was going nuts. So Monday its on the truck out for delivery. My mail usually comes either noon or post 4:00pm. So rather than praying for a noon delivery I took things into my own hands. I went looking for the truck Monday am and I was going to hijack it. After I finally found the right truck it was good news and bad news. Good news was that the 2 boxes were right there in plain sight and the delivery guy gave them to me. Bad news is what if somebody else posed as me. I should say that the delivery guy knows me and probably felt it was alright. So no real bad news I had my DHT before noon! By 2:00pm I was playing music and 10 days or so later it is breaking in nicely.
-
Lucky dog!
Thanks TomS! Im excited to get it going tonight!
Is your delivery the DHT kit to convert an existing LIO or the complete DHT LIO?
Either way, the above is true! :thumb:
Looking forward to your feedback.
Thanks J! I took delivery of DHT LIO with MOSFET amp module.
All,
It appears that a package containing >$4000
of Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors went missing,
according to FedEx :cuss: :banghead:
Oh man! So sorry to hear! What a thing to happen, right during the rollout of this new module. I hope jtwrace doesn't have to wait to long! :o Best of luck to all in line!
-
Thanks J! I took delivery of DHT LIO with MOSFET amp module.
You must update us tonight! :hyper:
I hope jtwrace doesn't have to wait to long! :o Best of luck to all in line!
My Silver AVC/Tubestage LIO is still here and it's not going anywhere anyway. :)
-
Ok Vinnie tell me about the DHT feet. I tried hockey pucks (been using them for years always a good solid performance but not this time) I tried Aurios and Aurios on top of pucks...not good. Then I just rested the DHT on its own feet and wow...magic. Maybe that is how you voiced the DHT and that is why it sounds so right. But it is just magic! In retrospect I feel the pucks added a muddying of the low mids, upper bass. Without them ... perfection. So caution to new DHT owners just place it down on its own feet and let it sing.
-
Ok Vinnie tell me about the DHT feet. I tried hockey pucks (been using them for years always a good solid performance but not this time) I tried Aurios and Aurios on top of pucks...not good. Then I just rested the DHT on its own feet and wow...magic. Maybe that is how you voiced the DHT and that is why it sounds so right. But it is just magic! In retrospect I feel the pucks added a muddying of the low mids, upper bass. Without them ... perfection. So caution to new DHT owners just place it down on its own feet and let it sing.
You might still want to try the Daedalus DID's :wink:
-
You might still want to try the Daedalus DID's :wink:
Here are the positives that were achieved with the DiD's under my LIO DHT:
- Highs and bass are better defined and have a longer decay
- Midrange is clearer and more holographic sounding
- Overall presentation is more open and detailed while still being relaxed and musical
Only "negative"...
I don't particularly like the way they look under my all black LIO DHT.
As jtwrace suggested in another thread, they would look much better in black.
Below is a picture of my current setup.
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146091)
-
Ok Vinnie tell me about the DHT feet. I tried hockey pucks (been using them for years always a good solid performance but not this time) I tried Aurios and Aurios on top of pucks...not good. Then I just rested the DHT on its own feet and wow...magic. Maybe that is how you voiced the DHT and that is why it sounds so right. But it is just magic! In retrospect I feel the pucks added a muddying of the low mids, upper bass. Without them ... perfection. So caution to new DHT owners just place it down on its own feet and let it sing.
A lower cost option than the DiD's which will still improve over the stock feet are Herbie's Tenderfoot:
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm
George
-
Here are the positives that were achieved with the DiD's under my LIO DHT:
- Highs and bass are better defined and have a longer decay
- Midrange is clearer and more holographic sounding
- Overall presentation is more open and detailed while still being relaxed and musical
Only "negative"...
I don't particularly like the way they look under my all black LIO DHT.
As jtwrace suggested in another thread, they would look much better in black.
Below is a picture of my current setup.
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146091)
I may have to try these George. Nice setup btw.
-
I may have to try these George. Nice setup btw.
The DiDs are definitly the real deal. No sonic downsides IMO. Just how many sets work best and where.
-
Hey all,
What kind of break-in can expect from the LIO DHT and how long?
Im going to guess this is not a big 500hr break-in type of piece.
Jason
-
Hey all,
What kind of break-in can expect from the LIO DHT and how long?
Im going to guess this is not a big 500hr break-in type of piece.
Jason
Jason,
I let it play non-stop for 4-5 days straight.
I can't say I've noticed any improvement since that point.
George
-
Vinnie told me 100 hours. But I felt a week of 6-8 hours a day did it for me.
-
All,
It appears that a package containing >$4000
of Vishay Nude Z-Foil resistors went missing,
according to FedEx :cuss: :banghead:
Vinnie
Vinnie,
Does this mean that July DHT shipments are now August shipments?
Steve
-
The LIO DHT is sounding great! Its only had 5 or 6 hours on it but since jwtrace said I must report... I can say I am getting the best low end I think Ive had in this room. And its a much fuller soundstage, too. Everything just sounds a little more 'alive.'
Im going to hold off on a few more pretty cool details for now though 8)
BTW, not using the internal amp module just yet. Just DHT pre.
-
Vinnie,
Does this mean that July DHT shipments are now August shipments?
Steve
Hi Steve,
This is possible for those who ordered at the very tail end of the pre-order
period. For most of the orders, I am confident that they will ship throughout
July.
Hi jriggy,
Very cool - thanks for posting so soon! 8)
Enjoy it!
Happy 4th, everyone!!!
Vinnie
-
Any photos with the tube covers on?
-
Here are the positives that were achieved with the DiD's under my LIO DHT:
- Highs and bass are better defined and have a longer decay
- Midrange is clearer and more holographic sounding
- Overall presentation is more open and detailed while still being relaxed and musical
Only "negative"...
I don't particularly like the way they look under my all black LIO DHT.
As jtwrace suggested in another thread, they would look much better in black.
Below is a picture of my current setup.
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146091)
Did you try any D.I.D. s under the external power supply? I see you have something on top of your power supply. What is it? I find that the external ps is very sensitive to acoustic feedback. Not sure what to use there, still experimenting.
-
Did you try any D.I.D. s under the external power supply? I see you have something on top of your power supply. What is it? I find that the external ps is very sensitive to acoustic feedback. Not sure what to use there, still experimenting.
I only have one set of DiD's and I have only tried them under the LIO.
I could try them under the PS, but I am guessing that won't have as big an impact.
I am using a combination of a Sistrum platform and Herbie's tenderfoot on the PS.
I have a pair of Herbie's SuperSonic on the top of the LIO and a Shakti stabilizer on the PS.
George
-
Thanks.
-
If I'm being selfish the only glow I hope Vinnie is seeing on this 4th is the glow of our DHT's that he's putting together. :lol:
-
If I'm being selfish the only glow I hope Vinnie is seeing on this 4th is the glow of our DHT's that he's putting together. :lol:
Except for all those fancy nekked resistors that up and ran away 8)
-
Any photos with the tube covers on?
Hi mirekti,
Not yet, but I should see the covers by the end of the week and will take some pics when I can.
If I'm being selfish the only glow I hope Vinnie is seeing on this 4th is the glow of our DHT's that he's putting together. :lol:
Been building LIO DHT Power Supplies and DHT tube stages. There are still many orders to get out, and while I"m waiting
for the new batch of resistors I'll be building / testing everything else.
Hope you all had a happy 4th of July!
Vinnie
-
There are still many orders to get out, and while I"m waiting
for the new batch of resistors I'll be building / testing everything else.
They really are gone? How long for the replacements?
-
They really are gone? How long for the replacements?
Maybe one way to cut down on the delay time is for the manufacturer to ship them in groups of two or three as he replaces them rather than waiting until he has made 10?
-
Maybe one way to cut down on the delay time is for the manufacturer to ship them in groups of two or three as he replaces them rather than waiting until he has made 10?
All,
So the package is officially missing :cry: and the company put in a claim with FedEx and is making a new batch.
Each NUDE RVC contains 14 different resistor values (2x, since we have L and R channels) and the manufacturer
makes the resistors by hand. So they do the full batch of each value before moving onto the next value.
I will hopefully receive them in 2 weeks. By then, we'll should have a handful more DHT PRE orders tested and packed up (and
we'll then build/test NUDE RVC modules and get them in the box and will ship these orders).
Thanks for all your patience with this,
Vinnie
-
Vinnie,
Sorry to hear about the loss of critical parts - nothing you can do about that. :cry:
Hang in there soon to be LIO DHT owners...it is worth the wait!!
George
-
I'm hanging.
-
I'm hanging.
Me Too! :thumb:
-
Ummm, me three!
George, any report on the EMLs?
-
George, any report on the EMLs?
Mine sound AMAZING! They're so quiet it's quite impressive. They're on the shelf
-
Mine sound AMAZING! They're so quiet it's quite impressive. They're on the shelf
:rotflmao:
As are mine... :icon_lol:
Anand.
-
Ummm, me three!
George, any report on the EMLs?
Mine are still in the box as I have been playing the amp module to get hrs on it.
Sometime later this week I will put them into the system.
George
-
George, any report on the EMLs?
Just trying to follow. EMLs = Emission labs?
What is everyone buying? the 2A3-Mesh tube that they make.
Steve
-
Just trying to follow. EMLs = Emission labs?
What is everyone buying? the 2A3-Mesh tube that they make.
Steve
Yes and Yes.
George
-
Just trying to follow. EMLs = Emission labs?
What is everyone buying? the 2A3-Mesh tube that they make.
Steve
As George said, yes. See here. (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142673.msg1539090#msg1539090)
-
Does Emission Labs make the best sounding 2A3 tube?
Steve
-
Does Emission Labs make the best sounding 2A3 tube?
Steve
I have no idea but what I do know is that one does NOT have to spend this kind of money on tubes for the DHT to sound good. Vinnie and George have both said this.
-
Does Emission Labs make the best sounding 2A3 tube?
Steve
"Best Sounding" is a loaded phrase. :wink:
Each person's system, room, hearing, and musical tastes are going to be different.
Additionally, how Vinnie is using the DHT tubes is different from almost everybody else out there, so you can't really search on "best" 2A3/45/811/etc...because the reviews and comments will almost all be based on using these DHT tubes as output or driver tubes - not as OTL preamp tubes!
So when you add it up, one person can't really say one tube is the best for everybody.
As I previously posted, I felt that the EML 2A3 mesh plate was the best sounding tube I have tried in my system. I was able to compare it to a few different tubes (stock EH 2A3, Svetlana SV-811, Cunningham CX301A, EML 300B, National Union Black Plate 45's). I fully recognize that there are lots of other tubes out there and I could keep on trying more to see what I like best. Ultimately I decided to go with the best of what I have heard and went with the EML 2A3 mesh plate.
Vinnie is about to start his "tube audition" program in which different DHT tubes will be available to try in your system. This really is the best approach.
Kudos to Vinnie for offering such a program to his customers.
George
-
I'll be getting mine last-ish because I skirted in just before the deadline. That said I am in no hurry, because I'll be moving this fall and my current location setup is NOT ideal.
-
I'm surprised there aren't many reviews from DHT owners. They really must be listening a lot. I'll take that as a good sign for things to come. :lol:
-
I'm surprised there aren't many reviews from DHT owners. They really must be listening a lot. I'll take that as a good sign for things to come. :lol:
Good news - we have NUDE RVC resistors and are building away. A few more will be shipping this week.
jtwrace, I should be able to ship your new LIO DHT by the end of next week.
Thanks for all your patience,
Vinnie
-
Good news - we have NUDE RVC resistors and are building away. A few more will be shipping this week.
jtwrace, I should be able to ship your new LIO DHT by the end of next week.
Thanks for all your patience,
Vinnie
Great news on all fronts! :hyper:
-
Vinnie,
The manual provides specific instructions on how to power up the new DHT configuration initially and connect cables, as well as to power up/down via the remote or front panel, NOT using the new DHT power supply switch, which would restart the pre-charge.
Unfortunately, where I live, we sometimes have an annoying number of short power glitches (think a couple seconds or so) and sometimes extended outages (think hours). The other situation is when I travel for an extended period and just want to power everything down and maybe even unplug it from the wall in case of lightning surges.
If I'm willing to go through the pre-charge cycle, is it ok to use the power supply switch, with the 2 cables already connected, to shut everything down and bring it up again? It seems logical that's ok, but I see the in-rush caution in the manual section 5-3 which states: "When connecting the LIO DHT Power Supply to your LIO that is not charged, you will first need to turn the power supply ON and then plug in the two cables to the LIO. Otherwise, the LIO DHT Power Supply's in-rush protection might activeate and shut off power to the output cable." Is retained charge enough to mitigate in-rush concerns in these situations where the cables are already connected?
-
Vinnie,
The manual provides specific instructions on how to power up the new DHT configuration initially and connect cables, as well as to power up/down via the remote or front panel, NOT using the new DHT power supply switch, which would restart the pre-charge.
Unfortunately, where I live, we sometimes have an annoying number of short power glitches (think a couple seconds or so) and sometimes extended outages (think hours). The other situation is when I travel for an extended period and just want to power everything down and maybe even unplug it from the wall in case of lightning surges.
If I'm willing to go through the pre-charge cycle, is it ok to use the power supply switch, with the 2 cables already connected, to shut everything down and bring it up again? It seems logical that's ok, but I see the in-rush caution in the manual section 5-3 which states: "When connecting the LIO DHT Power Supply to your LIO that is not charged, you will first need to turn the power supply ON and then plug in the two cables to the LIO. Otherwise, the LIO DHT Power Supply's in-rush protection might activeate and shut off power to the output cable." Is retained charge enough to mitigate in-rush concerns in these situations where the cables are already connected?
Hi TomS,
Yes - that should be fine. The high in-rush happens when the cap banks are discharged and you initially
apply power.
Vinnie
-
Hi TomS,
Yes - that should be fine. The high in-rush happens when the cap banks are discharged and you initially
apply power.
Vinnie
Thanks, so if I unplug it for a week while I'm gone, do I need to pull the 2 cables first, just in case?
-
Thanks, so if I unplug it for a week while I'm gone, do I need to pull the 2 cables first, just in case?
You dont have to, but you will probably need
to unplug the 24V LIO PWR cable before you turn
on your DHT Supply again, then plug it into LIO
to begin the precharge.
-
This is good info. Time for a Rev of the manual. :lol:
-
OK. I think I get it... It "OK" to do but we might not want to all the time??
I turned off the DHT PS via the switch on its front, due to a bad coming storm. I then just turned it on via the PS front switch. then powered on the LIO shortly there after when I was ready to listen.
-
Yeah, our power is so flaky, it worries me a bit. I've thought about just putting a generic 1000w UPS on it for those glitches, but I'm not too keen on having that ahead of the filament PS.
I've had the DHT for a few days now, unfortunately couldn't get much listening time this week, but it's obviously special from the first note. I haven't found the right words yet, other than to say it sounds ridiculously good. I understand more now what people mean by "fleshed out", which seemed an odd description to me before. It doesn't sound tooby at all, rather just right, very natural, transparent, and just really engages you in listening to music, not the gear. I'm using the stock EH 2A3's which seem perfectly fine if you don't want to chase tubes.
Also, I raised the gain of the phono section, which already has 1:20 transformers, to almost 70db for my Miyajima Kansui cartridge. With that much gain it ought to pick up some noise with the DHT, but it really is very quiet, no complaints. I was pleasantly surprised by that. The DHT with a good vinyl setup is hard to beat, so I know why Vinnie leans on it for shows. Good stuff :green:
-
I agree, TomS. And funny, I had a similar wording realization. I said to myself, I now know what people mean by the word "full." It is such a full and complete musical picture. But Fleshed out is even better. This must be due to the DHT's providing all the harmonics there are.
-
I have the stock tubes in my DHT, but I don't see any "tube glow." Is this because of the low power applied to the tubes?
Ken
-
I wouldn't worry about it if you are getting sound. I suppose you could always use a volt meter to see what the filaments are cooking at? The two large pins are the filament pins.
Shawn
-
I have the stock tubes in my DHT, but I don't see any "tube glow." Is this because of the low power applied to the tubes?
Ken
Hi Ken,
The stock 2A3 (and most 2A3 tubes in general) do not have much of a glow. They are not like the thoriated tungsten filaments (e.g. SV811) that glow brightly. You can see it in a dark room if you are near the tube, but even in a dark room you won't see
the glow across the room.
It has nothing to do with power or with them being used in the linestage (they are still drawing the same filament current in the linestage as they would in a power output stage). It only has to do with the design of the tube's filament.
Yeah, our power is so flaky, it worries me a bit. I've thought about just putting a generic 1000w UPS on it for those glitches, but I'm not too keen on having that ahead of the filament PS.
Hi TomS / jriggy,
If this is just to handle brown-outs and small black outs, then a 1000W UPS will be fine. But I highly recommend one that
is a "pure sine wave" type (not a "modified sine wave" type) of inverter.
Thanks for your feedback so far!
This is good info. Time for a Rev of the manual. :lol:
Hi jtwrace,
It's already covered in the manual Section 5-3. :wink:
Vinnie
-
I wouldn't worry about it if you are getting sound. I suppose you could always use a volt meter to see what the filaments are cooking at? The two large pins are the filament pins.
Shawn
Oh, I'm getting sound alright. And, it's wonderful!
-
I was previously using my LIO with the AVC/Tubestage (with Telefunken E188CC tubes) and MOSFET amp module. After replacing the AVC/Tubestage with the DHT Linestage (using the stock EH 2A3 tubes), I've burned in the tubes for approximately 75 hours . . . not sure they are completely burned in, but they have improved noticeably since new.
I found time for my first couple of (too brief) critical listening sessions this weekend and thought I'd post some initial impressions of the LIO with DHT Line Stage. I struggle to find the right words to describe the improvements this upgrade has made . . . partly because I'm still getting acquainted with it, and partly because I don't really enjoy listening analytically. I prefer to experience and be immersed in the music, rather than try to dissect it and rationally explain my experience. I think tapping toes, goosebumps and big ole smiles are pretty good indicators of the ability of audio hardware to connect the listener to the musical experience.
So, here are a few impressions, some based on feeling, and a few that address specific sonic qualities. With the DHT Line Stage:
- More tapping toes, goosebumps, smiles and spontaneous "oh yeahs!"
- A more convincing illusion of live music
- A larger soundstage with more precise, tangible placement of voices and instruments that exist as separate elements in 3D . . . individual elements seem to be more "rounded" and suspended on a cushion of air
- Better integration of sonic details in the musical whole . . . not more detailed, but "feels" more whole or organic. It occurred to me while listening to vocals (Eilen Jewell's "Sante Fe", Jacintha's "God Bless the Child", Hans Thessink and Terry Evans "Delta Time") that, in addition to hearing the vocal chords and mouth sounds, I could hear the back of the singer's throat and chest more distinctly . . . maybe because sibilance was not over-emphasized (and maybe even slightly diminished?), but the delicate, filigreed higher frequency details were better integrated with the midrange. OK, I guess that's getting analytical, but the effect was natural, pure, fleshed out and human. I could hear the wood in drum sticks, fingers moving on guitar and bass strings, and other details more "completely" . . . but not hyper detailed or sibilant, just a natural part of the whole.
Not sure any of the above makes a lot of sense to others, as you sorta had to be there. I was, and with the DHT, it was much easier to just be in the moment and connect with the music. Highly recommended!
-
Hi Timbana,
Thank you for posting your initial LIO DHT PRE impressions! I feel you summed up the essence of what it
means for the music and your listening experience. :singing:
UPDATE JULY 28
There have been some more delays, but we finally have all the parts and are building away to complete the pre-orders.
- One of the delays has been that for a few DHT PRE customers so far, they have experienced a problem where one tube would not get filament power at turn ON. It turns out one of the SPVR filament regulators would fail (either L or R channel), and I have been chasing this issue intensely throughout this entire week and finally have it figured out:
It has to do with the very high in-rush current when powering a cold tube and how the SPVR control board responds to seeing nearly a short-circuit (cold tube filament) at turn ON. So we are now using ICL (in rush current limiter) devices in series with the filaments and this seems to take care of the issue.
If you already received your DHT PRE and have not experienced this issue, that's fine... You may never have a problem (my original DHT PRE module has been used nearly every day since before AXPONA and never has had a problem). But *if* it does happen, the fix it easy enough. You would just need to send your DHT PRE module (only the module) to me to replace the regulator and install the ICL devices. Your DHT PRE is warrantied for 10 years, and the fix does not take long, so NO WORRIES! :thumb: If you plan on going on a vacation or will be planning a business trip and will be away, you can schedule to send it to me for the update. Going forward, all DHT PREs will have this protection installed.
- I'll be working both days this weekend to catch up on orders, and will be shipping at least 10 more DHT PRE orders throughout next week. And there are some more to ship after that! :o
- One of them will be going to Srajan Ebaen of 6moons.com for review.
His preview has been live for quite some time, so I'm glad to finally be able to send him a kit for review and am thankful for all his patience:
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/1.html (http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/1.html)
- There has been some delay in the DHT PRE Tube Tour, but it is going to be picking up and will be running full steam ahead.
Thanks again to Zybar for running this tour!
- Thank you for all your feedback on the new VR website! I believe most of the bugs are taken care of and it is running smoothly.
- I have more to post on this forum (and more very exciting things for LIO are in the works!), but this really has been the busiest summer for me and I haven't had nearly as much time to post on the forum. Throughout August, I should be getting mostly caught up!
Once again, I want to thank everyone for all your patience, support, and enthusiasm for LIO DHT PRE. As those who have received theirs can attest, it will be well-worth the wait and will positively change your listening experience in so many ways! It has become very difficult for me not to listen for at least a little while at night before I get ready for bed. It has that kind of addictive quality! :drool:
More soon...
Vinnie
-
Great news all around Vinnie! :thumb:
DHT LIO :hyper:
-
Thanks Vinnie for the update and your extra work! :thankyou:
Hubert
-
I'll say more about the DHT later but. It is awesome ... Now. I have had it for a month tweaking this and that but never getting it quite right until I put blue jean 6a cable from PC to router and today from router to uRendu -> DHT usb input. And when I did holy crap what a sound. All the little roughness I heard was due to a non optimum Ethernet cable. The depth,the hall sound, the timbre, the voices, violins and woodwinds are perfect. I cannot thank Vinnie enough for bringing such wonderful music into my life. Yes I thank John Swenson for the uRendu and for the great advice on Ethernet cables. Blue jean gets an attaboy too. More analytic description of the sound will be forth coming.
-
I'll say more about the DHT later but. It is awesome ... Now. I have had it for a month tweaking this and that but never getting it quite right until I put blue jean 6a cable from PC to router and today from router to uRendu -> DHT usb input. And when I did holy crap what a sound. All the little roughness I heard was due to a non optimum Ethernet cable. The depth,the hall sound, the timbre, the voices, violins and woodwinds are perfect. I cannot thank Vinnie enough for bringing such wonderful music into my life. Yes I thank John Swenson for the uRendu and for the great advice on Ethernet cables. Blue jean gets an attaboy too. More analytic description of the sound will be forth coming.
I second the recommendation for the Blue Jean 6A cable. I use them throughout my whole music and video server system.
-
I second the recommendation for the Blue Jean 6A cable. I use them throughout my whole music and video server system.
I use the Cat 6 as recommended by BJC instead of the 6a.
-
Remind me what differentiates model 6 from model 6a. It was my believe that6a has an ungrounded shield on both ends . I thought model 6 was tied to ground on at least one end.
-
Remind me what differentiates model 6 from model 6a. It was my believe that6a has an ungrounded shield on both ends . I thought model 6 was tied to ground on at least one end.
See here. (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-microrendu-27389/index56.html#post538228)
EDIT: I should also mention that they can be purchased on Amazon here. (https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Cable-Assembled-Blue-Jeans/dp/B00EIM4D9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469977330&sr=8-1&keywords=blue+jeans+cat+6)
-
I remember reading that now. Thanks. But do you know if the shield is grounded or not on the BJ 6? Based on my experience with both the 6a cables I have and Swenson's recommendation I think this is key to a minimum level of performance. But hey for $20 I might not resist the trial.
-
Had an issue with my DHT(no problem with it I just did something dumb). So I contacted Vinnie on a Sunday night and he spent some time walking me through fixing it via email. I cannot express how much value this is to me. He is a the right combination of inventor, entrepreneur and all around good guy.
More on my DHT performance with 2 Blue Jeans 6a Ethernet cables. When I visited the Krell room during Axpona and heard a demo off the Sturm Tank ac conditioner my reaction was Holy Shit is this how off the grid sounds. Then I heard Vinnie's demo and declared another Holy Shit. Since I have had my 2 BJ cables (last Saturday) I am getting another Holy Shit almost all the time ...in my system. Where to start: timbre is perfect, air air air everywhere. Soundstage is crazy good with picture placement of instruments. But for me the real killer is low level detail usually hidden underneath, between bigger sound on the soundstage. Another killer is the sound of violins, woodwinds and tympani (you can hear the membrane pulsing back and forth a delight usually enjoyed only in a live perfmance). I have played a lot of my old standbys and they are beautiful with a new life to them but some of my least played stuff is now finding a way onto my Hqplayer playlist. The soundstage has a trapezoidal feel: very wide up front, oodles of depth but a bit of shrinking in width ever so slightly at the very back. I'll take it. The dynamics are very very wide. I find myself gain riding the remote to not upset my amp.
Well done Vinnie man you did good on this one.
-
I cannot express how much value this is to me. He is a the right combination of inventor, entrepreneur and all around good guy.
Yes, he's the real deal! I've heard it before by others but until you experience it yourself one can't imagine. :thumb:
-
I got news that my DHT LIO should be shipping tomorrow. :banana piano:
-
One more analogy on the DHT with uRendu power port. When I listen to music its as if the top 2 or 3 octaves have been lit up by a wonderful soft spotlight not to become hard or pushy but to become very clear and open.
-
My custom DHT LIO arrived today.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147997)
-
Received and installed my LIO DHT on 8/3/16. I let it burn in overnight and listened the next evening after work. I had to restrain myself from rushing to the forum to give my initial impressions. Two days is enough! Let me first say that I confirm and agree with all of the touchstones that Vinnie discusses on the website under the heading "I put a spell on you..." I also agree with all of the comments made b Zybar under the thread "DHT upgrade is complete." So right now I am going to just give a short four word review and a shorter 1 word review.
4 word review: I could sell tickets.
1 word review: Delicious
After more extensive listening I will give more details and expound especially on the term "delicious." I know, I know ... other DHT recipients have said the same thing and you never hear from them again. Well its hard to tear yourself away. But I will ... "believe me."
-
My custom DHT LIO arrived today.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147997)
Great. It looks like you dispensed with the stock tubes and went directly to emission labs? Which tube versionl? Once you settle in with the DHT let me know how they compare to the stock tube.
-
Great. It looks like you dispensed with the stock tubes and went directly to emission labs? Which tube versionl? Once you settle in with the DHT let me know how they compare to the stock tube.
Picture was taken with the Mesh but I have the stock VR tubes in now and will likely stick with them.
-
The Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT. Tubes that don't sound like tubes.
I have no idea how he pulls this off but it's mind boggling.
First reaction: HOLY SHIT!
This album is killin' it right now!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148002)
-
The Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT. Tubes that don't sound like tubes.
I have no idea how he pulls this off but it's mind boggling.
First reaction: HOLY SHIT!
This album is killin' it right now!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148002)
Yep, Vinnie and I have listened to this a lot at my house.
I use "Drum Trip" and "Laugh As The Sun" as test tracks. :thumb: :thumb:
When I turn it up loud, I feel like it is 1994 and I am standing 5' away from the band in a small bar in Rochester, NY.
George
-
Picture was taken with the Mesh but I have the stock VR tubes in now and will likely stick with them.
??? Is that because in your initial listening session you liked the stock tubes better.
Steve
-
A slightly better picture.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148114)
-
I use the Cat 6 as recommended by BJC instead of the 6a.
I finally installed mine from the wall jack to the microRendu this weekend.
I was pleasantly surprised by the improvement.
Noise floor dropped, which produced more details and a bigger sound.
Damn good return on a $15 investment.
Gotta love Blue Jeans Cables. :thumb:
George
-
A slightly better picture.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148114)
I would say a "perfect" picture! :thumb:
-
Have any of your tried the new mesh plate 101D that Full Music has put out? I would love a few impressions.
-
Have any of your tried the new mesh plate 101D that Full Music has put out? I would love a few impressions.
Nope.
I am sticking with the EML 2A3 mesh plate.
George
-
Sorry for the delayed response here. Been busier than ever! :hyper: Lots of exciting things in the works that
I will go into later when I can...
First reaction: HOLY SHIT!
This album is killin' it right now!
Hi jtwrace,
That's a great first reaction! 8)
The Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT. Tubes that don't sound like tubes.
I have no idea how he pulls this off but it's mind boggling.
Actually, you are really hearing what a 2A3 sounds like with a super-low noise power supply,
no driver tubes, no output transformers, no feedback at all (not even a cathode resistor), and
not being loaded down by a speaker driver in a power output stage.
All of this really means you get all of the harmonics, layering, tone, and openness that the DHT truly
excels at, without some the things that some people don't like about certain SET designs (mushy, slower
bass, overly thick sound, rolled off top end, noise, etc.).
Let me first say that I confirm and agree with all of the touchstones that Vinnie discusses on the website under the heading "I put a spell on you..." I also agree with all of the comments made b Zybar under the thread "DHT upgrade is complete." So right now I am going to just give a short four word review and a shorter 1 word review.
4 word review: I could sell tickets.
1 word review: Delicious
Hi yardbird4,
Thank you for your initial impressions, and I love both of your reviews above! :green:
After more extensive listening I will give more details and expound especially on the term "delicious." I know, I know ... other DHT recipients have said the same thing and you never hear from them again. Well its hard to tear yourself away. But I will ... "believe me."
No rush - if you are glued to the chair listening, then LIO DHT PRE is doing exactly what it was designed to do! :thumb:
Where to start: timbre is perfect, air air air everywhere. Soundstage is crazy good with picture placement of instruments. But for me the real killer is low level detail usually hidden underneath, between bigger sound on the soundstage. Another killer is the sound of violins, woodwinds and tympani (you can hear the membrane pulsing back and forth a delight usually enjoyed only in a live perfmance). I have played a lot of my old standbys and they are beautiful with a new life to them but some of my least played stuff is now finding a way onto my Hqplayer playlist. The soundstage has a trapezoidal feel: very wide up front, oodles of depth but a bit of shrinking in width ever so slightly at the very back. I'll take it. The dynamics are very very wide. I find myself gain riding the remote to not upset my amp.
Well done Vinnie man you did good on this one.
Thank you, Theobetley!
I really appreciate all of your initial impressions, and it will also be fun later when those on the Tube Tour list get to roll in some different DHTs and hear what happens compared to the stock 2A3.
Happy listening,
Vinnie
PS: More soon, but I need to get back to the builds... :whip:
-
PS: More soon, but I need to get back to the builds... :whip:
Yeah, I haven't seen my unit yet..... :whip:
-
Yeah, I haven't seen my unit yet..... :whip:
Getting very close to shipping yours, BobRex :wink:
-
I have read the review of Vinnie Rossi’s dht tube preamp in 6moons with great interest.
I wonder how Mr. Rossi has implemented his tube stage in the LIO. Normally It would be an
offend to ask an engineer about his secrets, but this time there must be an exception for good reasons:
Mr Rossi said the dht tubes are driven from the internal capacitor bank supply, the filaments from outside.
The capacitor bank provides 24 to 20 Volts, and running a dht tube like a 300B's plate so low is quite extraordinary,
it calls for a very strange operating point, the grid had to be almost zero or even slightly positive, which would cause other problems.
The only solution could be a dc-dc converter, but Mr. Rossi said there is none.
I hope that Mr. Rossi or anybody else is going to unveil this mystery a bit.
thank you
Andre
-
I just received an email from Srajan Ebaen of 6moons.com. Today he received his DHT PRE kit and already installed it, and posted
the installation sequence (pages 4 and 5 of his preview):
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/4.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/4.html)
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/5.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/5.html)
With the stock 2A3 dead quiet even with my ear on the tweeter, I'd have no need to hide the glow bottles from sight.
Stay tuned for the sonic conclusion...
:)
-
How can any decent human being cover those lovely 2A3 tubes. I say it is a disgrace!
-
How can any decent human being cover those lovely 2A3 tubes. I say it is a disgrace!
Leaving them unwrapped did this...always wrap it. ;)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148319)
-
Leaving them unwrapped did this...always wrap it. ;)
Thanks for the public service announcement! :lol:
Best,
Ed
-
Thanks for the public service announcement! :lol:
Best,
Ed
It's now the Phuckin' DHT! :green:
-
It's now the Phuckin' DHT! :green:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
They're multiplying!!
Hey J,
Why two? just curious how your system is set up for them and why. Sorry if you explained already and I missed it --been gone for a couple weeks.
Jason
-
I have read the review of Vinnie Rossi’s dht tube preamp in 6moons with great interest.
I wonder how Mr. Rossi has implemented his tube stage in the LIO. Normally It would be an
offend to ask an engineer about his secrets, but this time there must be an exception for good reasons:
Mr Rossi said the dht tubes are driven from the internal capacitor bank supply, the filaments from outside.
The capacitor bank provides 24 to 20 Volts, and running a dht tube like a 300B's plate so low is quite extraordinary,
it calls for a very strange operating point, the grid had to be almost zero or even slightly positive, which would cause other problems.
The only solution could be a dc-dc converter, but Mr. Rossi said there is none.
I hope that Mr. Rossi or anybody else is going to unveil this mystery a bit.
thank you
Andre
Hi Andre,
Welcome to the VR forum!
I am sorry, but I cannot discuss the inner details of this design that you are looking due to
the risks of it then being copied.
As far as I know, there is nothing else out there quite like it. It does NOT use any
dc-dc switching converters. And it achieves a very high bandwidth from 10Hz to >250kHz (+/- 0.5dB)
with a voltage gain of 6 - 9dB (depending on the tube used).
All the details that I wish to mention are listed on our website:
http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/ (http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/)
Thank you for your understanding,
Vinnie
-
:lol: :lol: :lol:
They're multiplying!!
Hey J,
Why two? just curious how your system is set up for them and why. Sorry if you explained already and I missed it --been gone for a couple weeks.
Jason
That's a great question. However, all I can say is Vinnie. I have one pair of speakers currently but after buying the AVC LIO and that whole experience I wanted to support the little guy. So rather than just upgrade the AVC to DHT I decided to invest in Vinnie some more and buy a new DHT LIO with all the same modules. I've been at this hobby for many many years and I've never dealt with anyone like him before. So while I don't use them both full time I have options and eventually I'll likely add some speakers for the AVC LIO too. I'm waiting on something specific. :)
-
Again, no request for secrets here, but are you saying you are not amplifying the DC voltage? I assume that you have raised the plate voltage to one of the linear operating points on the data sheet. Is that right?
-
Hello Vinnie between the 300b ,and 2a3 sonicly would you say the 300b has more richness tunes to the mids ? Sonicly both very respectable DHT tubes . What is the best attribute of each tube from your observations?
Thank you,PJ.
-
Hello Vinnie between the 300b ,and 2a3 sonicly would you say the 300b has more richness tunes to the mids ? Sonicly both very respectable DHT tubes . What is the best attribute of each tube from your observations?
Thank you,PJ.
PJ,
It really depends on which make as much as which tube. The tube that had the most richness in the midrange to my ears was the Svetlana SV-811's.
I have heard multiple 2A3 and 300b tubes and each had its own sound and unique characteristics.
I will try and get something posted in the next few days on the tube tour thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144292.0) that will highlight this.
As others get participate in the tube tour, you can read their thoughts as well.
George
-
I have read the review of Vinnie Rossi’s dht tube preamp in 6moons with great interest.
I wonder how Mr. Rossi has implemented his tube stage in the LIO. Normally It would be an
offend to ask an engineer about his secrets, but this time there must be an exception for good reasons:
Mr Rossi said the dht tubes are driven from the internal capacitor bank supply, the filaments from outside.
The capacitor bank provides 24 to 20 Volts, and running a dht tube like a 300B's plate so low is quite extraordinary,
it calls for a very strange operating point, the grid had to be almost zero or even slightly positive, which would cause other problems.
The only solution could be a dc-dc converter, but Mr. Rossi said there is none.
I hope that Mr. Rossi or anybody else is going to unveil this mystery a bit.
thank you
Andre
You need to read more of the info. The DHT comes with a larger linear power supply that provides the plate voltages, as well as the DC to the caps. Nothing esoteric here and the plates are running at typical voltages.
-
Again, no request for secrets here, but are you saying you are not amplifying the DC voltage? I assume that you have raised the plate voltage to one of the linear operating points on the data sheet. Is that right?
Hi sfox7076,
Again, I don't wish to go into details about how I implemented it. All the detail that I wish to provide can be found here:
http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/ (http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/)
Hello Vinnie between the 300b ,and 2a3 sonicly would you say the 300b has more richness tunes to the mids ? Sonicly both very respectable DHT tubes . What is the best attribute of each tube from your observations?
Thank you,PJ.
Hi PJ,
When I get more caught up, I'll be posting about the different tubes that I've tried and their attributes (how they sound in this particular circuit).
PJ,
It really depends on which make as much as which tube. The tube that had the most richness in the midrange to my ears was the Svetlana SV-811's. I have heard multiple 2A3 and 300b tubes and each had its own sound and unique characteristics.
I agree with all three of these statements by Zybar.
BTW - I am confident that I'll get through with building/testing/shipping all of the LIO DHT PRE pre-orders this month! :dance:
Thanks again,
Vinnie
-
Yep, Vinnie and I have listened to this a lot at my house.
I use "Drum Trip" and "Laugh As The Sun" as test tracks. :thumb: :thumb:
When I turn it up loud, I feel like it is 1994 and I am standing 5' away from the band in a small bar in Rochester, NY.
George
This is too funny--I was just thinking of this album yesterday and it totally makes me think of Freshman year in college. I'll have to pull it up on Roon now! :)
-
Just set up my system today and it sounds fantastic. Many thanks, Vinnie, for a great addition to the LIO.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148538)
-
Just set up my system today and it sounds fantastic. Many thanks, Vinnie, for a great addition to the LIO.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148538)
Are those tubes lit up, or is it a reflection of the camera?
-
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your post! SV811 tubes, 384kHz feed to the dac = :drool:
Hi kdbrink,
Those are lit up Svetlana SV811-10 tubes (thoriated tungsten filaments have a bright glow).
Vinnie
-
As posters to this thread may know, I'm reviewing the DHT module. I've got a clear take on the EH gold-grid 2A3 now. Those who've already done the deed and know the stock-tube sound: what other tubes have you tried and which of those made the biggest difference in terms of altering the flavour and shifting things in a different direction (regardless of whether your taste or not)? I'm interesting in trying out a few others but have to buy a set each so want/need to be prudent. I'm primarily interested in *big* changes just to see how much wiggle room there is in the general presentation. I'm less interested to go from French vanilla to regular vanilla if you get the meaning. Chocolate or strawberry would be more like it :oops:
-
As posters to this thread may know, I'm reviewing the DHT module. I've got a clear take on the EH gold-grid 2A3 now. Those who've already done the deed and know the stock-tube sound: what other tubes have you tried and which of those made the biggest difference in terms of altering the flavour and shifting things in a different direction (regardless of whether your taste or not)? I'm interesting in trying out a few others but have to buy a set each so want/need to be prudent. I'm primarily interested in *big* changes just to see how much wiggle room there is in the general presentation. I'm less interested to go from French vanilla to regular vanilla if you get the meaning. Chocolate or strawberry would be more like it :oops:
Srajan,
The two tubes I would recommend are:
Svetlana SV-811 - SV811 is denser, richer, more seductive, awesome tone, and can really rock. Bass could be a little too much depending on speakers, room, and listening preference
EML 2A3 Mesh Plate - The mesh plates have a killer top end and are more open and holographic sounding. They also are faster and more detailed, without being edgy. Midrange is more fleshed out and bass is stronger with better texture. Only negative is the price.
Both are significantly different from the stock tubes.
In between the stock tubes and EML 2A3 Mesh Plate would be the Genelex Gold Lion PX300B. Not sure if I would call it chocolate or strawberry...but it is definitely different from the stock tubes.
George
-
In between the stock tubes and EML 2A3 Mesh Plate would be the Genelex Gold Lion PX300B. Not sure if I would call it chocolate or strawberry...but it is definitely different from the stock tubes.
George
George,
Can you add a little more description of the Gold Lions? Also, would you mind commenting on noise floor among the tubes you've mentioned? Thank you!
David
-
George,
Can you add a little more description of the Gold Lions? Also, would you mind commenting on noise floor among the tubes you've mentioned? Thank you!
David
Hi David,
I'll chime in as well on this:
- Surprisingly, the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid tubes have the lowest noise / hum out of the ones that I've tried so far in the
LIO DHT PRE circuit. I say "surprisingly" because they certainly are not the most expensive new production 2A3 on the market.
I chose the EH2A3 Gold Grid as the stock tube for the following 4 reasons:
1) Sonically, I found it sits 'right in the middle' and makes for a great starting point and possible final destination tube - detailed but not overly so; rich tone but not too thick/dense/overly saturated; tight fast bass response (but not a tube that bass heads will fall in love with).
2) New production tube, easy to obtain in quantity and at <$100/ea. does not break the bank.
3) Per above - very low noise and hum in our circuit, better in this regard than most other DHT I tried, including quite a few different new production 2A3 and 300B and the more pricey tubes like the EML 2A3 and 300B.
4) Very linear response and high bandwidth in this circuit: 10Hz - 250kHz (+/- 0.5dB) and the -3dB point was close to 500kHz!
Does this mean that the EH2A3 Gold Grid is the one that you will like the best in your system? Not necessarily. They really
all have a different flavor.
The Gold Lion 300B is also quite good! A little more hum / tube rush than the stock (higher sensitivity speakers will pick up on this
more), and for me, it sits somewhere between the stock EH2A3 and the SV811.
Once I get caught up, I plan to purchase quite a bit more DHTs from different families / brands and report back in more detail. In the meantime, the DHT Tube Tour is rolling forward and hopefully we'll see more impressions from that over the new few weeks.
Sorry I've been so busy! I had no idea that DHT PRE was going to take off like it did (and I've been busy on future projects as well :wink:), but I am thankful for it and really "amped" to read so many positive impressions here and via emails!
Vinnie
-
I respect that. I was just hoping to understand better where on the triode curve these are. My attempts at making a preamp will never be as good as yours I am sure, so I am sure I will eventually try yours.
If I can ask a different question, would it ever be feasible to change the filament supply in the future to use a 26 or a 10? You have an amazing breadth of power in the unit, but I really have a thing for 10Y tubes. They use a 7.5v filament (at 1.25A). The 26 is only 1.5v, so it is likely more doable. Assuming the operating points still work out.
-
Zybar: Gracias. Well noted. Those two look/sound like good candidates to explore the "extremes". :thumb:
-
And get a pair of 01As to try. It is a different world.
-
Takatsuki 300B
-
This may have been covered previously in this thread--where are peeps buying their different tubes to try out? I have never really tube-rolled before, even though I have the tubestage on my LIO, so I don't need some esoteric model with Edison's fingerprints on it. I am familiar with EL34s from my Marshall, and have tried Telefunkens, ElectroHarmonix and Svetlanas with this amps, but I've never ordered any from online. Anything I need to know/avoid?
Thx in advance.
-
I'll add myself to matthewpartrick's query. We've been in Ireland for 3 months now and I've never dealt with any UK tube resellers before. Any contact recos there would be appreciated - not for the usual guitar tubes but the kind Lio DHT takes.
-
Takatsuki 300B
$2500 a pair! :o Zoinks!!
I very much like the Gold Lion PX 300B's in the LIO and would eventually like to check out another 300B but dang!
-
All,
I don't have experience with online tube shops outside North America, but inside
North America here are some options:
https://tubedepot.com/t/tubes/power-tubes/300b-2a3-6a3 (EH, Gold Lion, JJ, KR Audio, some NOS)
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/300B-Tube-Types (EH, JJ, Shuguang, Shuguang Treasure)
http://tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html (Emission Labs)
Grant Fidelity (Canada) is the distributor for the Chinese Psvane and Shuguang Treasure tubes:
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/purchase/shuguang-treasure-series-vacuum-tubes/
More Exotic 300Bs:
http://www.store.diyhifisupply.com/300B
I have to admit that I'm curious about these:
(https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/products/large/KR-2A3-4.jpg?1381945163)
and
(https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/products/large/KR-300B-BALLOON-4.jpg?1381945195)
But not cheap at $775/pair and $995/pair, I'm not ready to jump just yet. And $2500/pair for the Takatsuki 300B
is really getting up there, but if they sound amazing I would have to consider them:
(https://audiograb.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/ct6a4351_zps3bc6c5fd.jpg?w=860&h=573)
One day I hope to give them a try.
As for NOS, I've mainly been looking on ebay and scored some 45s and CX301A's at a good price. Western Electrics
are rare and pricey, but I'd love to hear those as well as some RCA 2A3s 8)
This is only the beginning of the adventure for me. Once I am more caught up, I'll have more time to play. :drool:
For now, I loving the EML 2A3 Mesh Plate and Svetlana SV811-10s (two different flavors), and the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid's
are quite the "sleeper" tube in this circuit and I still like using them as well.
Vinnie
-
As posters to this thread may know, I'm reviewing the DHT module. I've got a clear take on the EH gold-grid 2A3 now. Those who've already done the deed and know the stock-tube sound: what other tubes have you tried and which of those made the biggest difference in terms of altering the flavour and shifting things in a different direction (regardless of whether your taste or not)? I'm interesting in trying out a few others but have to buy a set each so want/need to be prudent. I'm primarily interested in *big* changes just to see how much wiggle room there is in the general presentation. I'm less interested to go from French vanilla to regular vanilla if you get the meaning. Chocolate or strawberry would be more like it :oops:
In my experience thus far tube swapping in my Lampizator Big7, I'd consider 300B's and 101D's to be at opposite ends of a spectrum of sorts, with 2A3's somewhere in between. 101D's being detail champs, but light on body. Use them to brighten things up. 300B's are full and rich and dimensional when there's good synergy, but overly thick when you need to brighten things up a bit. I'd put 45's pretty close to the center of that spectrum, and 2A3's just leaning to the 300B side of things.
Just my experience in my system, in a couple very different rooms. Lampi big7 with passive VC, into Line Magnetic 518ia (bypassing the preamp section). Daedalus DA-RMa V2 speakers. Cabling dialed in for clean and transparent.
Specific tubes I've tried:
300b: Genalex new production, VAIC AVVT supertubes, and currently using Takatsuki
45: RCA old stock cunninghams for fairly cheap off eBay
2a3: 80's Sovtek
101D: base level psvane, psvane WE replicas
PX25: KR
Clearly, 300Bs have been what I've gravitated to along this spectrum. But mainly because the Takatsukis are so so far more resolved and sophisticated than any of the others I've heard (I lucked out snagging a pair used from an ACer for $700 a year or so ago). So, I've tweaked tubes throughout the rest of the system to compensate for the 300b tendency to be too dense/thick. I'd still like to find something with a bit more high frequency verve, but they have to be really damned good in the midrange to displace these Tak's.
-
Takatsuki 300B
Here is a review. :thumb:
http://www.dagogo.com/takatsuki-ta-300b-vacuum-tube-review
-
All,
I don't have experience with online tube shops outside North America, but inside
North America here are some options:
https://tubedepot.com/t/tubes/power-tubes/300b-2a3-6a3 (EH, Gold Lion, JJ, KR Audio, some NOS)
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/300B-Tube-Types (EH, JJ, Shuguang, Shuguang Treasure)
http://tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html (Emission Labs)
Grant Fidelity (Canada) is the distributor for the Chinese Psvane and Shuguang Treasure tubes:
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/purchase/shuguang-treasure-series-vacuum-tubes/
More Exotic 300Bs:
http://www.store.diyhifisupply.com/300B
I have to admit that I'm curious about these:
(https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/products/large/KR-2A3-4.jpg?1381945163)
and
(https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/products/large/KR-300B-BALLOON-4.jpg?1381945195)
But not cheap at $775/pair and $995/pair, I'm not ready to jump just yet. And $2500/pair for the Takatsuki 300B
is really getting up there, but if they sound amazing I would have to consider them:
(https://audiograb.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/ct6a4351_zps3bc6c5fd.jpg?w=860&h=573)
One day I hope to give them a try.
As for NOS, I've mainly been looking on ebay and scored some 45s and CX301A's at a good price. Western Electrics
are rare and pricey, but I'd love to hear those as well as some RCA 2A3s 8)
This is only the beginning of the adventure for me. Once I am more caught up, I'll have more time to play. :drool:
For now, I loving the EML 2A3 Mesh Plate and Svetlana SV811-10s (two different flavors), and the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid's
are quite the "sleeper" tube in this circuit and I still like using them as well.
Vinnie
I just ordered my pair of Takatsuki 300B for $1912.00 shipped with a 1 yr warranty
-
All,
I have to admit that I'm curious about these:
(https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/products/large/KR-2A3-4.jpg?1381945163)
and
(https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/products/large/KR-300B-BALLOON-4.jpg?1381945195)
But not cheap at $775/pair and $995/pair, I'm not ready to jump just yet.
For now, I loving the EML 2A3 Mesh Plate and Svetlana SV811-10s (two different flavors), and the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid's
are quite the "sleeper" tube in this circuit and I still like using them as well.
Vinnie
Back at the turn of the century I was running the KR 2A3s in my Moondogs. When one of the tubes popped (after 5 or so years), I put in a pair of EML meshies. The 2 tubes are pretty close in sonics; I'd say that the EML had slightly better highs, but the KRs might have sounded a little more organic. Now, at the time I was comparing a 5 year old KR against a new EML, but .....
BTW - I received the DHT upgrade, and really wanted to install it over the weekend. But between my wife's plans (repainting and rebuilding the garage), and a David Crosby concert, I didn't get the time. I should have the garage almost done this week, so I'm hoping to free up the time.
-
BTW - I received the DHT upgrade, and really wanted to install it over the weekend. But between my wife's plans (repainting and rebuilding the garage), and a David Crosby concert, I didn't get the time. I should have the garage almost done this week, so I'm hoping to free up the time.
Keep us posted, BobRex!
As far as the Takatsuki 300B, I'd love to give those a listen in the LIO (but not without a return policy :wink:)
Vinnie
-
We're going to get a lot of info from the "tube train" i.e. the mailing list that was set up to send DHTs to various LIO owners. That will help cement my decision on whether or not to fork over extra dollars for big buck tubes.
BTW, on Vinnie's links, does one just have to search for "DHT" or "directly heated triode"? Does one have to know the specific designation of the tube to search for it? I'm pretty familiar with guitar amp tubes but I don't know the nomenclature for DHTs beyond what people have mentioned in this thread. :)
-
We're going to get a lot of info from the "tube train" i.e. the mailing list that was set up to send DHTs to various LIO owners. That will help cement my decision on whether or not to fork over extra dollars for big buck tubes.
BTW, on Vinnie's links, does one just have to search for "DHT" or "directly heated triode"? Does one have to know the specific designation of the tube to search for it? I'm pretty familiar with guitar amp tubes but I don't know the nomenclature for DHTs beyond what people have mentioned in this thread. :)
Hi Matthew,
When you search for tubes online, it is best to just use the tube model number (e.g. 2A3, 300B). Most of the time, the online stores
sort them by model number. The same is true if you are searching for NOS on ebay.
DHT is what we call a triode whose cathode is the actual heating element, as compared to indirectly-heated triodes which have a heater (filament) that is separate from the cathode.
This page lists the DHTs that are compatible with LIO DHT PRE:
http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/
For convenience, they are:
2A3
45
300B
PX4 / PX25
101D / 205D
SV811 / SV572
(and more recently I tested a CX301-A and it worked well).
* there are probably other DHT models that are not on this list that will work, but I would need
to test them first to make sure they are suitable in this circuit *
UPDATE AUG 29th
- The last of the DHT PRE orders will be shipping this week. Thanks again for all your patience.
- I'm still backlogged with silver tube covers (need to find a new supplier). It'll be a few more weeks.
- If you haven't done so already, check out the 6moons review! This was the last page posted (for those who
have been following it and have already read the others), and gets into the listening impressions:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/7.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/7.html)
This really sums it up:
It's no exaggeration to write that compared to Nagra, Vinnie Rossi the brand is a flyweight. Swat. It's an upstart barely out of its diapers. In my exotic Olympics however, his Lio DHT PRE took the gold, my beloved Nagra Jazz the bronze. The silver remained out of reach for the Swiss given the size of Lio's lead. 12Awhatever7 triodes of the small-signal persuasion just won't reach this plateau regardless of design pedigree. Vinnie called it. Quite the sobering realization. Given that the Lio platform had previously nabbed one of our exceedingly rare Lunar Eclipse Awards, it had already maxed out our special recognition scheme as well. Time to pause and let it all sink in.
As reviewed, the Lio DAC/headfi/pre 3-in-one DHT is a game but more importantly gestalt changer.
:thumb: 8) :dance:
Many thanks to Srajan for all his effort in writing this, starting from the beginning when LIO DHT PRE was still being designed and finalized!
And Srajan mentioned that he'll post a follow-up when he gets other tubes to roll in...
- Next month, I have some new things to announce in the VR forum that are coming soon. :wink:
Have a great week!
Vinnie
-
I've got an order in for EML 2A3 meshies but Jac van de Walle is on company summer holidaze until the end of the month. Once he returns, I'm hoping to get a pair for mid September which will be my first rolling exercise on the DHT LIO...
-
- If you haven't done so already, check out the 6moons review! This was the last page posted (for those who
have been following it and have already read the others), and gets into the listening impressions:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/7.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/7.html)
This really sums it up:
Quote from: Srajan Ebaen / 6moons.com
It's no exaggeration to write that compared to Nagra, Vinnie Rossi the brand is a flyweight. Swat. It's an upstart barely out of its diapers. In my exotic Olympics however, his Lio DHT PRE took the gold, my beloved Nagra Jazz the bronze. The silver remained out of reach for the Swiss given the size of Lio's lead. 12Awhatever7 triodes of the small-signal persuasion just won't reach this plateau regardless of design pedigree. Vinnie called it. Quite the sobering realization. Given that the Lio platform had previously nabbed one of our exceedingly rare Lunar Eclipse Awards, it had already maxed out our special recognition scheme as well. Time to pause and let it all sink in.
Quote from: Srajan Ebaen / 6moon.com
As reviewed, the Lio DAC/headfi/pre 3-in-one DHT is a game but more importantly gestalt changer.
:thumb: 8) :dance:
Many thanks to Srajan for all his effort in writing this, starting from the beginning when LIO DHT PRE was still being designed and finalized!
And Srajan mentioned that he'll post a follow-up when he gets other tubes to roll in...
- Next month, I have some new things to announce in the VR forum that are coming soon. :wink:
Have a great week!
Vinnie
That sounds like Srajan gave the LIO DHT the gold AND the silver medals in his exotic Olympics! :wink: :thumb:
-
I hope I get to hear the DHT at some point, but it likely wont happen. I understand that the sound is pretty great but how much of a change is it over say the AVC tubestage? Is this something that is amazing but only noticeable during critical listening? Or can you turn on your music, forget about it as your distracted by something else but still realize how much better everything sounds?
-
I hope I get to hear the DHT at some point, but it likely wont happen. I understand that the sound is pretty great but how much of a change is it over say the AVC tubestage? Is this something that is amazing but only noticeable during critical listening? Or can you turn on your music, forget about it as your distracted by something else but still realize how much better everything sounds?
Hate to say it, but it is a BIG improvement that is obvious and apparent from the moment you hear it.
George
-
DHT is a whole philosophy in my mind. It is very different from indirect tubes. Hard to quantify without hearing. Indirect tubes, to me, are more forgiving than DHT for build and circuit quality. That said, they cannot as easily sound so intimate and lifelike. I think of it like wine. A young Pinot Noir from burgundy is often amazing and can be from a lot of different producers. It is well worth the price. A well aged Margeux is perfection and there are only a few producers that can do it. Well done DHT is like that.
-
A well aged Margeux is perfection and there are only a few producers that can do it. Well done DHT is like that.
Yeah, there's a new Margeux out. It's called Vinnie Rossi...BOOM!
-
Has anybody noticed that the relay clicks have gotten louder with the new DHT module?
Steve
-
Probably due to holes in the top plate.
-
Has anybody noticed that the relay clicks have gotten louder with the new DHT module?
Steve
Nope, not at all. :green:
-
Has anybody noticed that the relay clicks have gotten louder with the new DHT module?
Steve
Nope.
Same level here.
George
-
Nope.
Same level here.
George
Does your new (DHT) top cover have the rubber layer like on the original cover.
Steve
-
Does your new (DHT) top cover have the rubber layer like on the original cover.
Steve
Steve,
I was using the clear acrylic top before moving up to the DHT.
George
-
Has anybody noticed that the relay clicks have gotten louder with the new DHT module?
Steve
Me neither ... but I never notice anyway unless there is no music playing and most of the time not then either.
-
I hope I get to hear the DHT at some point, but it likely wont happen. I understand that the sound is pretty great but how much of a change is it over say the AVC tubestage? Is this something that is amazing but only noticeable during critical listening? Or can you turn on your music, forget about it as your distracted by something else but still realize how much better everything sounds?
As good as the AVC/Tubestage is ... it is no DHT - PRE. You will notice the difference from the "get go" ... to use an timeworn phrase.
-
If . . . I . . . could . . . just . . . stay . . . away . . . and not read all these glowing comments and reviews. :nono: I guess I'll be placing my order on Tuesday. :duh: DHT, dac, amp and inputs. :thumb:
-
If . . . I . . . could . . . just . . . stay . . . away . . . and not read all these glowing comments and reviews. :nono: I guess I'll be placing my order on Tuesday. :duh: DHT, dac, amp and inputs. :thumb:
Just do it. No regrets here
-
It would be interesting to hear one of these compared to a Lampizator with DHT...
-
Sorry for OT.. anyone from Singapore with DHT Pre? Keen to try out to see how they pair with my system.
-
So I have my DHT Pre quite a while ... .
My first impressions were mixed. -Although Vinnie's description of the sound was quite accurate, in comparison to the AVC-tube module everything was a bit too laid back. S. Ebaen‘s description in the first part of his DHT PRE review shows it well and coincides with my experience.
But after 2 weeks regular use the sound changed clearly, I haven't changed my setup. Suddenly speed and punch was back in my setup.
Now, I can not believe what kind of music comes out the Lio. I use the LIO with dac, DHT PRE and active speakers. In addition I regularly use the LIO headphone amplifier and my desription applies to both setups.
I am now looking forward to the experience from the tube tour and maybe I will experiment with other tubes (unfortunately I can’t participate the tour). But it's hard to imagine that music enjoyment can be increased considerably in a Hifi setup (with similar expenses).
The second thing I will mention, is the expandable concept of LIO – exceptional! Sure some upgrades will not come cheap but you have the choice!!!
Closing remarks: I havent’t been in the hifi hobby for almost 20 years , comeback with LIO is joy beyond compare :guitar: :drums: :violin:
Thank you very much Vinnie !
-
I have landed back and I see DHT box is also here :thumb: I have too many things to do before I set this one.
Thanks guys for (good) feedback on DHT- (or thanks to Vinnie :icon_lol:). Now gotto hunt for where the $%^ is my toolbox set among all the unopened boxes :lol:
regards,
Kishore
-
Now, I can not believe what kind of music comes out the Lio. I use the LIO with dac, DHT PRE and active speakers. In addition I regularly use the LIO headphone amplifier and my desription applies to both setups.
Hi hubi,
Thanks for your post!
The whole DHT PRE circuit, NUDE RVC, as well as the new tubes all need time to open up and sound their best (like any other component). The best way to do it is by just playing music through them and enjoying it. 8)
There is also a lot of flexibility in tuning the sound with different DHTs. I will be writing more on that soon enough, as will those
who have tried a few different tube in the Tube Tour.
I havent’t been in the hifi hobby for almost 20 years , comeback with LIO is joy beyond compare :guitar: :drums: :violin:
Thank you!
Hi Kishore,
Good luck with the installation, and don't forgot to go slowly and carefully read the manual. :rules: :wink:
Keep us posted, and feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Vinnie
-
I'm so looking forward to the future developments of the LIO and other offerings like the stand alone Ultracapacitor supply mentioned here. (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=145384.msg1555300#new)
-
So I have my DHT Pre quite a while ... .
My first impressions were mixed. -Although Vinnie's description of the sound was quite accurate, in comparison to the AVC-tube module everything was a bit too laid back. S. Ebaen‘s description in the first part of his DHT PRE review shows it well and coincides with my experience.
But after 2 weeks regular use the sound changed clearly, I haven't changed my setup. Suddenly speed and punch was back in my setup.
Now, I can not believe what kind of music comes out the Lio. I use the LIO with dac, DHT PRE and active speakers. In addition I regularly use the LIO headphone amplifier and my desription applies to both setups.
I am now looking forward to the experience from the tube tour and maybe I will experiment with other tubes (unfortunately I can’t participate the tour). But it's hard to imagine that music enjoyment can be increased considerably in a Hifi setup (with similar expenses).
The second thing I will mention, is the expandable concept of LIO – exceptional! Sure some upgrades will not come cheap but you have the choice!!!
Closing remarks: I havent’t been in the hifi hobby for almost 20 years , comeback with LIO is joy beyond compare :guitar: :drums: :violin:
Thank you very much Vinnie !
Can one say that the sound is more laidback or was that restored now after burn in. Are there any differences at all in that aspect compared between DHT and AVC/Tubestage?
For me I am very happy with the LIO but I HOPE that maybe a last veil especially in the mid will be removed with the DHT? If this happens I guess the sound will be a bit more direct as if you are seated closer to
the stage perhaps?
Thanks for any thoughts on this.
Magnus
-
All,
I previously posted this in the Tube Tour thread, but it is important info and I'll post it here as well:
I also want to mention something to all LIO DHT PRE owners:
Regarding tube pins and tube sockets, it is very important to make sure you are getting a good connection.
I have found DHT tubes have some level variation in the diameter of the tube pins (even from batch to batch of
the same tube... it's not *that* uncommon it seems).
So if you use a tube with a larger pin diameter, it can stretch the tube socket pins to accommodate the tube pin. However,
when you go back to use a tube with pin(s) of a smaller diameter, the connection might not be as good as it was previously
due to the stretched out socket pin.
No problem - here is what you do about it:
The Yammamoto Teflon UX4 tube sockets used in the DHT PRE have female pins with a slit in the middle, and
this allows you to push the two halves of the socket pin together (closing the diameter of the female socket and making
a better connection with the tube pin). See:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146784&size=small)
If you use a very small flat head screwdriver (e.g. google "jewlers screwdriver," or "eyeglass screwdriver"), you can
easily tighten them up if/as needed. Just be careful as you do each socket pin.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146788)
- Does this need to be done often?
Not necessarily, but if you are getting an intermittent connection (could be noise, popping, crackling, or any noise that was not there before) with a particular tube, doing what I mention above will take care of it. It's good to do this if you are tube rolling often, and as I mention in the DHT PRE Owner's Manual, you want to make sure the pins of the tubes that you install are clean *before* installing them! This is especially important with NOS tubes that might have dirt and oxidation on them. And you want to make sure your tube socket pins are also clean and free of dust and other contaminants.
A clean, secure connection is going to provide best results (best sound, lowest noise).
This adjusting of the socket pins and cleaning them and the tube pins are all part of "normal maintenance" that goes along with tube rolling. If you confirm a tight connection and don't tube roll often, you probably won't need to do this that often (if ever).
I hope this tip helps!
Vinnie
-
I think I read about it somewhere, but cannot find it with the search again.
Could you tell me the difference between Nude RVC and Autoformer, what one does better than the other, please?
Oh, and there was supposed to be a photo of DHT PRE with a cover on top of the tubes. Is there one you could share?
Thanks.
-
I think I read about it somewhere, but cannot find it with the search again.
Could you tell me the difference between Nude RVC and Autoformer, what one does better than the other, please?
Oh, and there was supposed to be a photo of DHT PRE with a cover on top of the tubes. Is there one you could share?
Thanks.
Lots of great pics on Vinnie's website!
George
-
Lots of great pics on Vinnie's website!
George
Thanks, George, but none with the cover on the tubes. At least I couldn't find one.
-
Thanks, George, but none with the cover on the tubes. At least I couldn't find one.
Sorry, misread your post.
I haven't seen any pics of the tube covers. I know mine are in the box and that's where they will stay.
George
-
Thanks, George, but none with the cover on the tubes. At least I couldn't find one.
Hi mirekti,
See: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/5.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/5.html)
Could you tell me the difference between Nude RVC and Autoformer, what one does better than the other, please?
The NUDE RVC is the volume control module used with the DHT PRE. It is an RVC module, but the resistors used are the Vishay nude
Z-Foil by Texas Components ($15 - $20 per resistor!). They are extremely transparent and do not add or take away from the DHT PRE
stage that follows.
The AVC's would not fit on the DHT PRE module, and the AVC's that we currently use for the LIO AVC/Tubestage add gain (7dB), and the DHT PRE already adds gain in the 6 - 9dB range (depending on the DHT). So for these reasons, I decided to use a special version of the RVC just for the DHT PRE - and that is the NUDE RVC mentioned above. 8)
Vinnie
-
Vinnie, thank you very much for the detailed answer.
So do both, AVC/Tubestage and DHT PRE, serve as a preamp? I understand one can choose either or.
-
Vinnie, thank you very much for the detailed answer.
So do both, AVC/Tubestage and DHT PRE, serve as a preamp? I understand one can choose either or.
Yes, both are line stages. The AVC/TS is passive with a tube buffer and can provide +7db gain due to the autoformer. The DHT is an active gain stage and provides 6-9db of gain.
-
Vinnie, thank you very much for the detailed answer.
So do both, AVC/Tubestage and DHT PRE, serve as a preamp? I understand one can choose either or.
Hi mirekti,
With LIO, you have 3 linestage choices (Level 1, 2, and 3):
Level 1 >> RVC + Tubestage. The RVC does the volume / balance control, and the Tubestage is a buffer that follows
it.
More info on RVC + Tubestage: http://www.vinnierossi.com/modules/rvc-tubestage/ (http://www.vinnierossi.com/modules/rvc-tubestage/)
Level 2 >> AVC/Tubestage. This is a module that combines Dave Slagle Autoformers (volume/balance control, with 7dB of gain) and the Tubestage (buffer).
More info on the AVC/Tubestage: http://www.vinnierossi.com/modules/avctubestage-combo/ (http://www.vinnierossi.com/modules/avctubestage-combo/)
Level 3 >> DHT PRE. This includes the NUDE RVC (volume/balance control), DHT PRE (active linestage with 6 - 9dB of gain), as well as the DHT Power Supply (linear supply that replaces the stock supply to charge LIO, and provides power to the DHT tube filaments).
More info on the DHT PRE: http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/ (http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/)
So no matter if you are building a LIO Preamplifier, LIO Integrated Amp, or a custom LIO configuration, you can choose from
the above 3 levels for the linestage section. On our webpage for these configurations, there is a drop down list so you can choose
the linestage as well as other options (dac, phonostage, headphone amp, etc) and it updates the total cost for you.
You can always upgrade later (e.g. swap AVC/Tubestage for DHT PRE, at 100% trade-in credit!) and add modules later. That's
what LIO is all about!
Yes, both are line stages. The AVC/TS is passive with a tube buffer and can provide +7db gain due to the autoformer. The DHT is an active gain stage and provides 6-9db of gain.
Correct! See you at RMAF, TomS - and hope to see many more of you there as well!
Vinnie
-
You can always upgrade later (e.g. swap AVC/Tubestage for DHT PRE, at 100% trade-in credit!) and add modules later. That's
what LIO is all about!
Vinnie
This is one of the biggest things I LOVE about the LIO. Buy however to fit your budget today and add modules as you can. Further, as the modules get improvements you can upgrade them too to the latest generation for full credit and just pay the difference. LIO, honest audio. :D
-
Can someone post a picture of the tube shields. I would be interested in seeing them.
Vinnie, another tube to look at is the 112A. It is akin to a cross between an 01A and a 26 to my ears.
-
There are several pictures of them in Srajan Ebean's review here: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/5.html
-
Hi all- just wanted to report in after a little more than two weeks with my LIO integrated with DHT Pre. I'm using it with Kef LS50s speakers, a Line Magnetic 515 cd player, a Rega RP6 turntable, and all cables and interconnects from Triode Wire Labs.
I upgraded from the AVC tubestage, which I loved, but yes, this is better. I'm too new at this to know all the right words to say, but I noticed immediately a much bigger sound stage, more detail, and above all, more feeling in the music. So I am really happy with my decision to try this.
I also did the silent switching upgrade at the same time, and I am also really enjoying the absence of clicks. (I notice them more now that I don't hear them!)
As for the tubes, I've just tried the stock tubes and the Svetlana 811-10s. I like them both but I think I give the edge to the stock tubes. The Svetlanas are definitely more romantic but I think the soundstage and bass are both better with the stock tubes. But I could see going back and forth depending on mood. And I want to try at some point the EML mesh plates that so many here seem to think are also a great match.
I'm also hoping before too long to try out my system attached to a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30.1s and see how they do in my room. But I could also happily stay where I am for a long time!
cheers, Margot
-
Hi Margot,
Thanks for your post, and glad you are diggin' the DHT PRE and silent switching in your LIO! 8)
I'm also hoping before too long to try out my system attached to a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30.1s and see how they do in my room. But I could also happily stay where I am for a long time!
Please keep us posted on this as well!
All the best,
Vinnie
-
Hi Vinnie
I recently moved my stereo to a new cabinet and fiddling around with some cables yesterday I noticed that somehow that the switch at the back of the Ultracap/DHT LPS had been flicked down to the 2A3 position.
I'm not sure when this happened or even if I have actually used the LIO with the 2A3 switch activated. I have KR PX4 tubes; would I have damaged the LIO or tubes if I had used it with the 2A3 switch activated?
Also, with my KR tubes, would the LIO even work with the switch on?
Thanks
-
Hi Vinnie
I recently moved my stereo to a new cabinet and fiddling around with some cables yesterday I noticed that somehow that the switch at the back of the Ultracap/DHT LPS had been flicked down to the 2A3 position.
I'm not sure when this happened or even if I have actually used the LIO with the 2A3 switch activated. I have KR PX4 tubes; would I have damaged the LIO or tubes if I had used it with the 2A3 switch activated?
Also, with my KR tubes, would the LIO even work with the switch on?
Thanks
Hi TimS,
It would not have damaged anything, and yes it would still work, but you are not getting the correct voltage to the PX4s.
- Make sure that switch is "UP" when using any tube other than the 2A3s.
- And for PX4's, make sure you have the 4V setting on each of the filament switches (next to the tube sockets).
If you have any questions or need a copy of the manual, please email me.
Thanks,
Vinnie
-
Whew, that's a relief!
Kind-of on the same subject, I've been searching for topics related to LIO DHT's and found this from over a year ago:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143241.msg1612915#msg1612915 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143241.msg1612915#msg1612915) where someone asked possibly trying out a VR Mini to feed the filament current of the KR PX4 instead of the supplied LPS and you mentioned you might be able to try it.
Did you get a chance to do this?
Anything to squeeze the last ounce of goodness out of the already superb LIO DHT!
-
Hi TimS,
Good question, but the VR MINI did not have enough continuous output current (especially not enough for a pair of 2A3 or SV811s).
Another thing that I have learned is that a floating supply for the filaments (like a battery, or isolated ultracap bank)
is not the best thing in terms of hum pick up. Sure, the power itself is very clean, but it's a LOT more complicated with that
in terms of picking up 50/60Hz noise fields with the sensitive direct heated triode tubes themselves.
With the L2 Preamplifier circuit, the way that I am referencing certain parts of the circuit to AC Ground and with the mesh tube covers in place (they also get tied to AC ground), there is no hum with any of the DHT tubes that I have tried! It makes a big difference! Certain tubes that I gave up on in the LIO DHT PRE (e.g. Psvane WE205-D Western Electric Replica) due to excessive hum are quiet in the L2 Preamp. And the one switch filament selection on the back panel makes rolling tubes of different DHT families much easier.
Anything to squeeze the last ounce of goodness out of the already superb LIO DHT!
I'm investigating and highly considering things for LIO in 2019 - but I just can't go into any of it yet. Sorry. :shh:
In the meantime, keep those DHT tube sockets clean and tight - and enjoy it! :singing:
Vinnie
-
Thanks Vinnie, look forward to any LIO upgrades this year.
Due to equipment changes I will soon have a spare output on my PH SR7 that I may try for the LIO DHT supply (@ 7.5v). I'll update this thread when I've tried it.
-
Thanks Vinnie, look forward to any LIO upgrades this year.
Due to equipment changes I will soon have a spare output on my PH SR7 that I may try for the LIO DHT supply (@ 7.5v). I'll update this thread when I've tried it.
Hi TimS,
I do not recommend using an external supply for the DHT Filaments other than the LIO DHT Power Supply (which has an in-rush current limiter circuit to protect the Belleson super regulators used for the filaments. The reason for this is that at time = 0 when you turn on the LIO, the tubes draw much higher current (in-rush current) than their normal steady-state current draw.
Best regards,
Vinnie
-
Ah, OK. Thanks for that information Vinnie. Don't want to damage the super regs!
-
Vinnie,
Noticed that your new L2 preamp version has switching that allows the tube to be bypassed in the DHT stage with the signal being fed directly to the FET driver. I assume that this still leaves the volume control in the circuit. Is there a reasonable way to have this mod/feature applied to the LIO DHT stage?
-
Vinnie,
Noticed that your new L2 preamp version has switching that allows the tube to be bypassed in the DHT stage with the signal being fed directly to the FET driver. I assume that this still leaves the volume control in the circuit. Is there a reasonable way to have this mod/feature applied to the LIO DHT stage?
Hi dspringham,
The L2's DHT linestage design is quite different than LIO DHT PRE, and there is no easy way to implement it into LIO.
There is something *very significant* that I have been working on that will be an option for LIO customers (not an inexpensive one, but it will be far more substantial than previous upgrades). I cannot post about it here at this time, but I will as soon as I can. 8)
Vinnie
-
There is something *very significant* that I have been working on that will be an option for LIO customers (not an inexpensive one, but it will be far more substantial than previous upgrades). I cannot post about it here at this time, but I will as soon as I can. 8)
Vinnie
Vinnie,
Are you working on a module update or an upgrade to the LIO itself?
Steve
-
Vinnie,
Are you working on a module update or an upgrade to the LIO itself?
Steve
Hi Steve,
Something even better! :)
Vinnie
-
Hiya.
Working up my review on Vinnie's L2 DHT linestage, I would like to invite those who already have theirs to share their experiences relative to tube brand and tube type rolling. I'm only listening to the stock ElectroHarmonix GOld 300B and Vinnie's personal pair of Takatsuki 300B. I'd like to provide our readers with additional data points since that's part of the appeal of this component.
So... if you'd like to become part of my review by contributing some sonic observations on what your various tubes do by comparison (also list the rest of your system), have at it. I'll check here or you can email me directly at 6moons. Your comments will list by either your handle or your real name, whatever you decide to provide.
Cheers. :popcorn:
-
Hi TimS,
Good question, but the VR MINI did not have enough continuous output current (especially not enough for a pair of 2A3 or SV811s).
Another thing that I have learned is that a floating supply for the filaments (like a battery, or isolated ultracap bank)
is not the best thing in terms of hum pick up. Sure, the power itself is very clean, but it's a LOT more complicated with that
in terms of picking up 50/60Hz noise fields with the sensitive direct heated triode tubes themselves.
With the L2 Preamplifier circuit, the way that I am referencing certain parts of the circuit to AC Ground and with the mesh tube covers in place (they also get tied to AC ground), there is no hum with any of the DHT tubes that I have tried! It makes a big difference! Certain tubes that I gave up on in the LIO DHT PRE (e.g. Psvane WE205-D Western Electric Replica) due to excessive hum are quiet in the L2 Preamp. And the one switch filament selection on the back panel makes rolling tubes of different DHT families much easier.
I'm investigating and highly considering things for LIO in 2019 - but I just can't go into any of it yet. Sorry. :shh:
In the meantime, keep those DHT tube sockets clean and tight - and enjoy it! :singing:
Vinnie
Hi Vinnie
I know you have stopped production of the LIO but I think you were looking into some upgrades for it earlier this year (above). Is this still a possibility in the future?
Thanks.
-
Hi Vinnie
I know you have stopped production of the LIO but I think you were looking into some upgrades for it earlier this year (above). Is this still a possibility in the future?
Thanks.
Hi TimS,
Thank you for your post.
1) The short answer is:
I highly doubt I will have any time to look into it this year, as I have too many projects in the works, and need to get into production of L2i and L2i-SE next month (right after the RMAF show).
2) The longer answer is:
Any 'significant' upgrade (and it certainly should be significant enough to make it worth pursuing in the first place) to LIO is likely going to involve a considerable amount of development time and cost. We're talking changes to the chassis, power supply, and even motherboard.
We already have upgrades for:
- DAC 1.0 to DAC 2.0
- RVC/Tubestage to AVC/Tubestage
- AVC/Tubestage to DHT PRE
- LIO Phonostage to L2 Phonostage
(And the ability to add-on modules that one does not currently have installed)
I believe that one would most likely find that trading-in their LIO to the upcoming L2i or L2i-SE Integrated Amplifier, by the end of this year, will not only make more sense financially - but will give you a much higher performing integrated amplifier (in a much higher quality enclosure). This would, by far, give you the biggest upgrade compared to anything I can ever imagine doing to LIO. And those who already have LIO DAC 2.0 can have it swapped into the L2i or L2i-SE.
If this upgrade is not in the cards, then it makes the most sense to simply enjoy your LIO, and if you ever find you need more output power, then use your LIO as a preamplifier/dac/phonostage and add a higher power amplifier or monoblocks to it (or upgrade to higher sensitivity speakers if you rather keep it as an all-in-one unit).
And please know that I will continue to support all my LIO customers directly, no matter if you upgrade to L2 or not.
I hope this response is helpful,
Vinnie