[Vulcan00]

I have really enjoyed my new Used Ultra EC Pre. I have it mated with an A51 Parasound amp. One thing bothering me is I can not turn the Ultra EC vol control up but to 7:00, at 9:00 it will blast you out of my room. Thats with the low gain selected.

I came across a Harrison 12 db attenuator at Parts Express. It is a RCA type that can be put in Line. I put it in between the pre and amp "line outs".  Well I was very surprised at the sound. The sound shifted to the higher freq bands. It sounded great but the lower bass seem to be rolled off.

Do you guys thinks I am missing anything with the gain being so high that I can only turn the vol control from  to 7:00? How far do you turn the vol control for normal listening?

Harrison

[floresjc]

I have an Insight 440 and the EC preamp. I have the low gain knob selected and I can't go past 9 either. Lots more in the pedal. Its not a bad thing, but a little strange I'll give ya.

[avahifi]

The voltage gain for AVA preamps and amplifiers is pretty much industry standard.

40 dB at 1KHz for phono.

20 dB for preamp line sections.

28 dB for power amps (except for Ultravalve tube amp which is lower).

We can build the Insight+ solid state preamp line sections with much lower gain if requested.  We likely can do this with the AvaStar preamp too, but have not tested this iteration yet.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[srb]

One would expect that when a preamplifier is mated with a power amplifier, using common source components, that a more useable and easier to adjust volume control range would be realized than 7 o'clock to 9 o'clock maximum.
 
While 26dB - 28dB gain seems to be quite common for power amplifiers, there are a lot of preamplifiers with gain quite a bit lower than 20dB.
 
- Audio Research SP17 / LS17:  11.1dB / 12dB (SE)
 
- Modwright LS 36.5:  12dB 
 
- Manley Jumbo Shrimp / 300B RC:  11.8dB / 12dB
 
- Parasound P7 / JC2:  14dB
 
- Parasound 2100:  12dB
 
- Simaudio Moon P5.3:  9dB
 
Maybe today's higher output voltage digital sources have resulted in preamplifiers being driven beyond what was expected in the past?
 
Steve

[avahifi]

We should be able to set the gain down on your preamp if you want that done.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[DustyC]

Frank,
I sent you a PM last week regarding this same thing. No need to reply, as this  thread answers my questions.
Thanks!

Vulcan00, you're reading my mind! 
Thanks!

[JerryM]

Interesting quandary. 

I have run both the AVA OmegaStar and T8 preamps through my Ultra 550. Both were very happy at levels well above the 7:00 spot, let alone the 9:00 spot. Changing the T8's 6N1P valves to 6CG7 valves  allowed quite a bit of upward rotation to the volume. The current iteration, with Telefunken E88CC valves, allows even more, with added separation and clarity to the music. 12:00 used to get the 'men in blue' here. 1:00 doesn't now, and it sounds better. 

Is this a simple 'synergy' issue? What are the specs of your Parasound amp versus those of the Ultra 550? Given this information, maybe Frank can dial in the Ultra Pre to play nicer with your amp. 

Have fun,
Jerry

[srb]

Is this a simple 'synergy' issue? What are the specs of your Parasound amp versus those of the Ultra 550? Given this information, maybe Frank can dial in the Ultra Pre to play nicer with your amp.

Yes, but would you not expect 'synergy' between the EC preamp and the Insight 440 power amp?
 

I have an Insight 440 and the EC preamp. I have the low gain knob selected and I can't go past 9 either. Lots more in the pedal. Its not a bad thing, but a little strange I'll give ya.

Steve

[WGH]

I also have an Insight pre-amp and 440 amp. Speakers are Von Schweikert VR2's spec'd at 87.5 dB. I never use the low gain button.

With the Insight+ DAC:
9 is average

With the Hagtech Cornet2 phono pre-amp:
9 is for easy listening
10-12 is normal but still not stupid loud

With the line input from the surround processor:
3, the volume is now controlled by the processor but I get real close to "0" on some movies.

Wayne

[floresjc]

When I use the low gain button, 9-930 is about as loud as I crank it, and it puts out a great wall of sound. If I want to go much higher my wife is either in a great mood or not home. If I were driving HT3's instead of HT2's, I would imagine that the sensitivity would make this scale quite different. As it is, an HT2-TL is probably not a terribly difficult load for the amp, meaning I don't need near the amount of dial to achieve similar SPL. At first I thought it was kind of annoying, because I was used to systems without so much power and having a lot of play in the knob. Now I pretty much leave the volume alone since I know where I listen about 99% of the time and give the remote a quick jab up if I'm feeling adventurous.

To continue my car analogy, its like dropping a hopped up V8 in a Miata chassis, you aren't going to have to use much gas to get that sucker to fly.

[bummrush]

 I'm probably wrong but if it sounds good fine,but aren't volume controls supposed to sound best when you can use it in higher number range like 7,8,9,having such a limited range to use on the control seems somethings not quite right or what.

[DustyC]

With the volume set at "9 to 9:30" for most of the people who responded, I'd order one of these preamps with the line stage gain set at about 10db with the phono stage adding another 40db (or up to 60db with moving coil).

I've often wondered why a buffered phono stage with the usual preamp controls and just a buffer for the line stage hasn't been a big hit. Most CD players have more than enough juice to drive a amp.

[floresjc]

I'm probably wrong but if it sounds good fine,but aren't volume controls supposed to sound best when you can use it in higher number range like 7,8,9,having such a limited range to use on the control seems somethings not quite right or what.

I don't know about the rest here, but when I say 9 or 930, I mean like positions on a clock. So 9 is dead to the left, 12 is straight up and etc.

Not like position 9 on a scale of 10. I have some 2/3 to 3/4 of the dial left to spin and I listen at pretty good levels.

It has been my experience that usually lower quality speakers and systems sound better when you crank them up. My Rockets were certainly like that. Since moving to Salk and AVA, volume is really more a choice of SPL than sound quality, but that's just my observation.

[martyo]

I'm probably wrong but if it sounds good fine,but aren't volume controls supposed to sound best when you can use it in higher number range like 7,8,9,having such a limited range to use on the control seems somethings not quite right or what.

7,8, or 9 just won't make it bloke, 11. 11 sounds best. 

[martyo]

■Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
■Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
■Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
■Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
■Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
■Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
■Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
■Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
■Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
■Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
■Nigel Tufnel: These go to eleven.
■Nigel Tufnel: The sustain, listen to it.
■Marty DiBergi: I don't hear anything.
■Nigel Tufnel: Well you would though, if it were playing.

  

[geezer]

I have an Ultra pre into an Ultra 550 into Gallo 3.1s. I mostly listen to classical music, where I run at 9:30 to 10:00 usually, and with opera DVDs, it's 10:30 to 11:00.

[rlee8394]

You need to consider the efficiency of your speakers as well.

Ron

[bummrush]

 How are you to have a decent amount of low to high sound level if thats all there is to the volume control

[Listens2tubes]

I wrote about this in another thread. Going from the original T8 in small chassis to a modern T8+ the volume knob went from 9 oclock for low listening to 11 for loud to 12 for concert.  Now it's low listening below 7, loud at 9 and concert at 10.