[Mad DOg]

it appears that SOCS is ready now!!!

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1536

looking forward to hearing it...

[F-100]

Sorry if this is a dump question but what is SOCS?

[Mad DOg]

Speaker Only Correction Software

[Eric D]

On Saturday, I felt probably as honored as I'm ever going to feel in my audio journey by being at Mark's demonstration of SOCS.  A lot of us were trying to understand and explain what we were hearing.  I'm one who didn't understand at all what they were trying to do until Saturday.  So by way of compensation for the treat I feel I was given, here's my posting from the AV123 forum.

The phase correction problem they are fixing with SOCS is related to the reason we see rainbows. Have you looked at through a prism? It blurs the image, not because it's out of focus (that's a different problem), but because it bends the light at different amounts depending on the frequency. So you see an image thats blurred with different colors at the edges.

A speaker is like an audio prism. Instead of bending sound by different amounts, a speaker creates a "rainbow" of music in time. We know what sound the electrical signal sent to the speaker represents. But because of the necessary design of speaker's crossovers and the mass of the drivers, it takes a longer time to get some frequencies from electrical signal to sound wave. The image is spectrally smeared.

What they are doing with phase correction in SOCS is to delay sending the "faster" freqencies so the frequencies that take longer to produce can get a head start. Then the "faster" frequencies catch up in the speaker and the sounds all comes out at once. It's like giving your child a head start in a race so that you both reach the finish line at the same time.

Mark's explanation made it clear to me *why* this has been his Holy Grail. As he was going over it, I was imagining back in the early days of digital music when they realized that all this frequency information was there in bits and that it was a straightforward concept. But as always, the devil is in the details. For technical and real-world reasons, it has been a painfully slow birth, but its about here (for real!)

RCS does not add the room as a separate transformation, but measures the complete transformation from electrical signal to your sitting position and then makes that correction.

OK, if now one else cares about the technical side - how did it sound? IMHO....

WOW! I was in awe. Yes, this is expensive for a consumer solution, but if I understand it correctly, it will be impossible to call ANY audio system "reference" without this. I don't know what their patent situation is, but for their sake I hope they have it well-covered. I haven't quite processed where I'd put it in the world of money/sonic improvement, but it's at least a magnitude of improvement more than putting $1500 more into cables. (That is not to take a position in the cable wars - substitute other upgrades from mid-fi to hi-fi). This change will definitely make your system "revealing" and reveal any other problems.

Mark, congratulations once again on the completion of your "quest." You seem well focused on the next steps of marketing it and driving down the costs. This is just one person's opinion, but that was the most impressive audio thing I've had the pleasure of listening too since the first time I heard a CD. And I know that demos have been given of the concept and prototypes, but I'll keep a personal memory of having been among the first to hear the release software.

Any thud you heard during the demo was the sound of my jaw hitting the floor. I consider myself a mid-fi guy, but this weekend I had a hi-fi lust.

enjoy!

[Greg Marberry]

it appears that SOCS is ready now!!!

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1536

looking forward to hearing it...

Hi Mad Dog,

Just a note on that:

There are no official statements from us about the SOCS final release but I do anticiapte being able to say something about all of this relatively soon.  Sorry for the ambiguity but please sit tight.

Eric,

Thanks so much for your post.  SOCS is one of the most significant products to arrive in audio in a very long time.  It is exactly the type of thing that can turn any music lover into an audiophile overnight.

Thanks

[Marbles]

Greg,

Do you having pricing info yet?

Do you have to have the P3 as well as the P1, or can you just have the P1?

Will you have that laptop with the microphone to send us, or can we download the software and upload the results?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Thanks

[Greg Marberry]

Greg,

Do you having pricing info yet?

Do you have to have the P3 as well as the P1, or can you just have the P1?

Will you have that laptop with the microphone, or can we download the software and upload the results?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Thanks

Hi Marbles,

Thanks for your post.  I do not yet have firm pricing.  A soft guess now is $399 for the software because that is what it was originally going to be.  I haven't had the opportunity to discuss any of this with Mark so nothing is firm.

SOCS is run in the DSP of the P-1A.  You can use any DAC in conjunction with the P-1A.

The MMK (mobile measurement kit) is still a planned product but, again, I haven't had the opportunity to discuss any details with Mark about it.  SOCS will generally not require the use of the MMK because it is our intention to build a software library that has as many speakers as we can get.

That's about the best I can give you right now.  Let me know if you have any additional questions.

[Marbles]

Since Mark is Pals with Brian Cheney, do you think the VMPS RM40's will be some of the first speakers after the Rockets to get the software?

There are some provisions to input how far you are from the speakers for the end user I would guess.  If I changed my speaker position, can I change this distance myself or do I have to send the P1A back to you?

[Greg Marberry]

Since Mark is Pals with Brian Cheney, do you think the VMPS RM40's will be some of the first speakers after the Rockets to get the software?

There are some provisions to input how far you are from the speakers for the end user I would guess.  If I changed my speaker position, can I change this distance myself or do I have to send the P1A back to you?

I'm pretty sure that we will have correction for the RM40s but I don't think that we have measurements for them yet.

Speaker location will not change SOCS software at all.  No matter where they are, the alogorithm that corrects them will remain the same.  RCS (room correction software) will be the one that must be changed when the room changes.  The plan for that is that you can take new measurements, send them to us via e-mail, and we can generate new software for you to load on your P-1A.  All of this will come later than the release of SOCS though.

Thanks,

[Marbles]

Thanks...

Do you think RCS will happen in 2004?

[Eric D]

...SOCS is one of the most significant products to arrive in audio in a very long time. It is exactly the type of thing that can turn any music lover into an audiophile overnight.

"Significant" was exactly my opinion, hence the fun I'm having playing pundit.  I'm not intimately familar with audio electronics and speakers, but from what I know of electronic circuits and physics, I can imagine how much work goes into solving this inherent problem of the difference between ideal speakers and reality.  And you-all are digitally saying "who cares!"  Do you-all wake up in the middle of the night and giggle to yourselves?

enjoy!  (and that time, it's meant specifically for the SOCS development team).

[Greg Marberry]

Marbles,

The goal is that we can get RCS going shortly after SOCS is up and going.  Assuming that we have SOCS going by 2004, RCS should be going sometime in 2004 as well.  

Thanks again Eric,

"Do you-all wake up in the middle of the night and giggle to yourselves?"

Not just yet  

[Marbles]

Thank you Greg.

Will there be a section of your website were you post the speakers you have measurements for? When SOCS is ready of course.

[Greg Marberry]

Thank you Greg.

Will there be a section of your website were you post the speakers you have measurements for? When SOCS is ready of course.

Most definitely.  Actually, what I want to do is resurrect the P-tech website.  It will become the main hub for information on everything P-tech.  If all goes as I want it to, this site will re-launch on or before the SOCS launch date.

Stay tuned

[Hantra]

Guys:

I'm curious.  The way it was explained, it doesn't seem that SOCS is any different than building a time-aligned speaker.  

Am I missing something?

Thanks!

B

[Greg Marberry]

Guys:

I'm curious.  The way it was explained, it doesn't seem that SOCS is any different than building a time-aligned speaker.  

Am I missing something?

Thanks!

B

The idea is the same.

Mechanically aligning a speaker comes with many limitations that make even the best aligned speakers flawed.  SOCS fills in the gaps and compensates in the digital world for what no speaker builder can accomplish in the mechanical world.

Keep in mind that SOCS also flattens the frequency response of the speaker.  There most definitely some speakers out there with fairly flat response curves but, again, SOCS can flatten those out even more precisely.

All of these things move closer to the purpose of this "crazy" hobby;  natural, open, balanced sound that provides the feeling of "being there."

[Eric D]

Guys:

I'm curious.  The way it was explained, it doesn't seem that SOCS is any different than building a time-aligned speaker.  

Am I missing something?

Thanks!

B

I hear you.  Time-aligned speakers deal with the difference twixt the two drivers, and bring down differences there.  Then there's the crossover-less single-driver designs.  I've been thinking that one of the reasons many like small monitors and listen near-field is to try to eliminate this issue.  All work to reduce the phase errors between the drivers.  

But there are also problems within the drivers themselves - they are real-world devices, not things of theory.  I have no idea exactly how much phase error occurs across frequencies for your average woofer.  But all the decisions are compromises (and dollars, or both).  Others here are a LOT more knowledgeable than your poor humble reporter.  I am truly coming from the point of view of a physics-knowlegeable mid-fi guy.  What I DON'T know here is far vaster than what I do.

What they are doing is measuring the errors empirically and correcting in the digital domain.  Mark did quote what the result is, but I want to let them have the fun of releasing that as well as let them answer the detailed questions.  I'm looking forward to the discussion and to hearing more details.  

I am happily standing by, curious.   I won't take credit for the "snake oil" reference - but this is not snake oil.  They should be able to show with graphs and numbers exactly how much improvement they are talking about.  I hope we see the graph for a good time-aligned speaker - across all frequencies and at fine resolution - compared to their results with SOCS.  IMHO you're going to find the numbers impressive.  I'll be curious to see if some speaker mfrs get offended.  

I am in no way saying to take this on trust. What I'm saying is, "stand by."  

enjoy!

[Hantra]

Thanks for the clarification.  

So now, we can all just stuff a box with decent drivers, and let the software do the rest!  

Sweet!

B

[Eric D]

Thanks for the clarification.  

So now, we can all just stuff a box with decent drivers, and let the software do the rest!  

Sweet!

B

I think you just got to the point.  I certainly don't know how much it can make up for and what it can't.  But it's going to be interesting where to put the money to get the greatest results.  Hey, Mark even talked about measuring his own "pride and joy" speakers and being surprised how much they were "off."  

Now for my "inquiring minds want to know" question.  Greg, how long 'til you get the SOCS correction for Lifestyle satellites or perhaps white van speakers?  

[Sa-dono]

Thanks for the clarification.  

So now, we can all just stuff a box with decent drivers, and let the software do the rest!  

Sweet!

B

To an extent... The better the speaker, the better the possible results. A nice (auto) analogy one of my friends came up with is that it is like taking an engine and modding it. You can certainly improve a cheaper engine..but if you take a nicer engine and mod it, you will likely have better results.