AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: mresseguie on 16 Jun 2017, 07:37 pm
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I know from a previous thread there are at least two people who have heard (or heard of) the Denafrips Ares. They're made in China. Does anyone have any experience with the other Denafrips models - Pontus, Venus, or Terminator?
I have contacted the Singapore based distributor about auditioning the Pontus or the Venus, but I don't know if I'll do so in the States or wait until I return to Taiwan. Here's the link to the sole distributor: https://www.vinshineaudio.com
Anyone?
I've found threads on Head-fi.org and 'superbestaudiofriends.org', but no one with actual Pontus or Venus listening experience. The hope is that the Pontus or Venus will be awesomeamazinggetouttaherekiller DACs.
Anyone interested in a tour (if practical)? The usual only oldtimers with lots of built up trust would be able to participate cuz we're talking about $1600 to $2600 components.
Okay,
Thanks for any thoughts.
Michael
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They look handsome and have many nice outputs and features. I didn't see which DAC chip they were based around so sent them a e-mail
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There is no DAC chip, it uses an FPGA and a precision r2r network for decoding. Excellent specs, I'd love to hear comparisons of the whole product line to the Holo Spring DACs.
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There is no DAC chip, it uses an FPGA and a precision r2r network for decoding. Excellent specs, I'd love to hear comparisons of the whole product line to the Holo Spring DACs.
Thanks for the info. I went over the specs quickly. Didn't read any details
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The HF thread is probably the most informative but there is also a thread on Stereonet out of Australia.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/112803-another-discrete-r2r-multibit-pcmdsd-dac-from-china/
Michael, I brought that dac to your attention since you have a home in that neck of the woods so to speak. Not a lot of info. really but mostly really good feed back, especially for the price. My Metrum Octave is a R2R ladder dac but is also NOS. I think the Pontus is NOS but the Ares is not.
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The HF thread is probably the most informative but there is also a thread on Stereonet out of Australia.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/112803-another-discrete-r2r-multibit-pcmdsd-dac-from-china/
Michael, I brought that dac to your attention since you have a home in that neck of the woods so to speak. Not a lot of info. really but mostly really good feed back, especially for the price. My Metrum Octave is a R2R ladder dac but is also NOS. I think the Pontus is NOS but the Ares is not.
Greg,
Please educate me about your DAC and what makes it special. I'll wager I can learn much about the Pontus or Venus by learning about your Metrum Octave. I'll read up on it, but your thoughts and impressions will give my research meat to chew on. :D
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Greg,
Please educate me about your DAC and what makes it special. I'll wager I can learn much about the Pontus or Venus by learning about your Metrum Octave. I'll read up on it, but your thoughts and impressions will give my research meat to chew on. :D
Hi Michael,
Sorry for the delay, really busy right now so not much time to play on AC. I'll let you read up on the technical side of things, and I will give you my opinion and limited experience with NOS and R2R ladder dacs. The first few dacs I tried when getting back into this hobby several years ago were all up sampling. To me they all had a glare to them and while detailed didn't sound very organic or musical. I won't mention what they were so as not to offend anyone who might own one of them. My first NOS dac was the MHDT Havana which has a single tube in it, this dac was very organic and warm sounding and I really learned to enjoy it. I was able to try different tubes and replaced the chip set in it and a nice improvement was had. Then I bought the Metrum Octave and it also sounded organic but with a lot more detail and a cleaner more open sound to it. The Metrum is not only NOS but is a R2R ladder dac. Back when I bought the Metrum, R2R dacs hadn't gotten a lot of traction and I bought it mostly because it was NOS. The first GTG at my house JakeJ brought over his Metrum Hex, this dac is really nice sounding. It reminds me of the Octave but is much clearer and detailed and still retains that open sound and organic warmth that I like. I have not heard a R2R ladder dac that wasn't NOS so the Ares would be a first for me, moving up the ladder for you might be a good move.
Gary at Border Patrol also makes a NOS R2R ladder dac and he has gotten some good press, although limited to a couple of reviews. Look up Border Patrol dac and a few things will pop up.
Like I said my experience is really pretty limited but I can only give you my opinion built on that and not what I have read from someone else. What I've read jives pretty well with what I have experienced but YMMV.
Regarding a tour of your dac, whatever that might be sounds fantastic to me, I would really be excited about hearing either one of those dacs you mention, especially in my system.
Take Care,
Greg
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Michael,
You may be following this thread since you mentioned it earlier in this one. But just in case...
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/denafrips-r2r-dac.3845/page-5
They will supposedly soon be touring an Ares and a Pontus starting within a week.
I look forward to reading up on the additional opinions.
Greg
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Greg,
Yup. I posted there a couple weeks ago. However, since I have no history there, I am not allowed to participate. I've been emailing the Singapore distributor (Alvin at Vinshine Audio) and he's ready to send me a DAC to audition. It may well be a Venus. Let me know if you're interested in my bringing it to the G2G. [I'm waiting to hear when my speakers will be available for pick up.] If someone wanted to buy the DAC there and then, Alvin said the warranty is transferable.
Alvin is aware of this thread and may join in(?). I have read a lot about the Ares, the Pontus, and the Terminator, but oh so little about the Venus. The Terminator is too rich for my blood, I'm afraid.
Michael
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Greg,
Yup. I posted there a couple weeks ago. However, since I have no history there, I am not allowed to participate. I've been emailing the Singapore distributor (Alvin at Vinshade Audio) and he's ready to send me a DAC to audition. It may well be a Venus. Let me know if you're interested in my bringing it to the G2G. [I'm waiting to hear when my speakers will be available for pick up.] If someone wanted to buy the DAC there and then, Alvin said the warranty is transferable.
Alvin is aware of this thread and may join in(?). I have read a lot about the Ares, the Pontus, and the Terminator, but oh so little about the Venus. The Terminator is too rich for my blood, I'm afraid.
Michael
Yes Michael,
Please bring your dac, whichever one you end up with. Perhaps they have a signature sound to them and we will all get a taste of what the dacs are all about.
Alvin has chimed in on other forums so maybe he will stop by.
We all have our breaking point as to how much we want to invest in our gear. Mine is pretty low right now since I have several other important things that need my money. Like a new bulkhead at my Camano place, I don't even like to think about how much that is costing me :duh:.
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Bulkhead, huh? That sounds scary.
I've had my share of nasty (read: expensive!) surprises in the last three years that I'm finally getting over, so this is my year to splurge. Well, next year will see smaller splurge, too. Then, I expect to settle in for a few years.
I don't 'need' to buy a new DAC this year, but I 'may want' to buy one especially with my new speakers and new amp, my Gustard X20u is actually going to be my weak link. :scratch: The Denafrips NOS DACs sure seem like killer components and their prices are right, so I really want to audition one. How can I listen to one without its being shipped to me?
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A well engineered and properly built seawall is very spendy but it's a bullet that can't be dodged if one is maintain the property.
Michael, you are in a quandry (we all are) when it comes to tasting gear from Asia. You do travel there but it still may be difficult to find a way to audition something. I imagine high-end audio salons are just not as prevalent as here in the US.
I have bought and sold much gear over the years just to sample them. :sad:
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Alvin has chimed in on other forums so maybe he will stop by.
Yep i'm here :D
I've been in touch with Michael to arrange a DENAFRIPS DAC for the get together. I've made a good proposal to Michael just minutes ago, lets see if Michael likes to proceed :thumb:
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:banana piano: :drool:
Great news! I will audition a Denafrips Venus. I will take it to our upcoming G2G.
This should be amazing. Thank you, Alvin of Vinshine Audio.
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I second the kudos to Alvin! Looking forward to the G2G. :drums: :guitar: :rock: :dance:
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Looks like it will be a good trip. Thanks Alvin and Michael :beer: :beer:
Alan
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Bulkhead, huh? That sounds scary.
I've had my share of nasty (read: expensive!) surprises in the last three years that I'm finally getting over, so this is my year to splurge. Well, next year will see smaller splurge, too. Then, I expect to settle in for a few years.
I don't 'need' to buy a new DAC this year, but I 'may want' to buy one especially with my new speakers and new amp, my Gustard X20u is actually going to be my weak link. :scratch: The Denafrips NOS DACs sure seem like killer components and their prices are right, so I really want to audition one. How can I listen to one without its being shipped to me?
What's wrong with the Gustard?
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Hi, Navi.
It's not that anything is wrong with the Gustard. It's more that I'm expanding my horizons and exploring possibilities. If this Denafrips DAC pans out, I can take my Gustard traveling with me when I'm in N. America. The Gustard can be my DAC and my preamp here, and the Venus can (potentially) become my DAC in Taiwan. Alternatively, I might be able sell the Gustard.
I bought the Gustard with the idea that it would be a stepping stone because DAC technology has been advancing at breakneck speed. With the coming addition of my Daedalus Apollo speakers and my Don Sachs Kootenay 120 amp, I am fast approaching a SQ level that I only dreamed of a couple years ago.
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OK got it.
I've been looking at the Ares as it's small enough to sit on top of my Cyrus amp.
Vinshine also had a Soundtech M15 (an LS3/5a & Harbeth P3ERS inspired design speaker) that I'm interested in hearing but can't find a person in australia who has one.
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Most welcome guys, I'm happy to contribute! :lol:
@navi, I'll PM you on the Soundtech MC15.
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I noticed the forum doesn't have much photos posted. I for one prefer to see pictures than read words (I'm lazy!) :green:
DENAFRIPS ARES DAC
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bd1747_aca14452153641a497f4a7c5c173e8ac~mv2_d_1920_1280_s_2.jpg/v1/fit/w_1000,h_1000,al_c,q_80/file.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bd1747_19c02f18888943f2a14e0bf0cf375ae6~mv2_d_1920_1280_s_2.jpg/v1/fit/w_1000,h_1000,al_c,q_80/file.jpg)
DENAFRIPS PONTUS DAC
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bd1747_dec90f1b2859485fba8c85a4b09644bb~mv2_d_1920_1280_s_2.jpg/v1/fit/w_1000,h_1000,al_c,q_80/file.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bd1747_4a8ef9ab18d24baa9f78eb43f1601973~mv2_d_1920_1280_s_2.jpg/v1/fit/w_1000,h_1000,al_c,q_80/file.jpg)
DENAFRIPS TERMINATOR DAC
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bd1747_1e0bf316f35e4981aea7ad0935f5ea30~mv2_d_1920_1280_s_2.jpg/v1/fit/w_1000,h_1000,al_c,q_80/file.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bd1747_e1fd192f0cfa4121931256c2db36d8f9~mv2_d_1920_1280_s_2.jpg/v1/fit/w_1000,h_1000,al_c,q_80/file.jpg)
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Hello, Alvin.
Perhaps, in a few more days, I'll be able to post a couple Venus pics for folks, too! :drool:
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Hello, Alvin.
Perhaps, in a few more days, I'll be able to post a couple Venus pics for folks, too! :drool:
:thumb:
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Hello, Alvin.
Perhaps, in a few more days, I'll be able to post a couple Venus pics for folks, too! :drool:
And, perhaps in a few days after that I'll get to see and hear it :thumb:
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deleted. Posted to wrong thread
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I'm interested in either the Venus or Terminator DACs.
Can anyone explain the differences between the hardware and if there are any sonic improvements to justify the added cost?
Thanks!
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Hit up Alvin1118 as he is the main man. He posted above. And he just might post here.
Alan
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Agreed, Alvin and the DENAFRIPS website are the best and likely the only good sources for information. The forums might come in second.
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I'm interested in either the Venus or Terminator DACs.
Can anyone explain the differences between the hardware and if there are any sonic improvements to justify the added cost?
Thanks!
Ah i'm terribly sorry for overlooking this msg! My apologies :duh:
Allow me to explain the differences between Venus and Terminator. Venus and Terminator are DENAFRIPS high end DAC. Either of them are of high quality, capable in producing fantastic music, and bring you many years of listening pleasure. Certainly, there are distinguishable differences:
1. Power supply
Venus power supply is closer to the Pontus. Multistage of super regulator, total 120VA.
Terminator on the other hand, beef up with 300VA of transformers, multistage of super regulator with superior Elna, Elna Silmic 2, and Mundrof capacitor. We knew power supply is extremely important to sonic improvement. Here is why.
2. Multiple Digital Input on Venus and Terminator. Terminator is equipped with 3 number of different i2s standard, you can be sure your i2s interface of upstream equipment will be compatible.
3. FPGA coding on Terminator is tuned to produce lush, dynamic and musical sound. Many season audiophiles agreed with this, Terminator is one of the best DAC they have had.
4. 19kg vs 9kg. Terminator dac board and power supply board is isolated to each other to eliminate possible emf. There is an additional metal plate in between the two.
While I can't stress more of how good is the Terminator, it is such a good candidate to beat many DAC priced much higher in the market. :thumb:
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This thread is most likely dead, but I am going to post anyway just in case some one is still reading it.
I have just finished (yesterday) auditioning a Denafrips Terminator (which is on tour here in Italy) in my home.
If anyone reads this and is interested I will be happy to recount my impressions of this DAC as compared to my AMR DP 777 SE.
By the way, on the fifth day of auditioning it, I ordered one from Vinshine. I was the second on the list. The guy who auditioned before me also bought it.
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Hello, Lolligagger.
I'm interested in your thoughts. I auditioned the Venus a couple months ago and decided I wanted to audition the Terminator. I expect to do this in November.
Post away!
Michael
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Hello, Lolligagger.
I'm interested in your thoughts. I auditioned the Venus a couple months ago and decided I wanted to audition the Terminator. I expect to do this in November.
Post away!
Michael
+1
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+2 Lolligag away :lol:
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+3 :lol:
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This thread is most likely dead, but I am going to post anyway just in case some one is still reading it.
I have just finished (yesterday) auditioning a Denafrips Terminator (which is on tour here in Italy) in my home.
If anyone reads this and is interested I will be happy to recount my impressions of this DAC as compared to my AMR DP 777 SE.
By the way, on the fifth day of auditioning it, I ordered one from Vinshine. I was the second on the list. The guy who auditioned before me also bought it.
You big tease. Spill!
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+1000
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I apologize that it has taken me so long to get back to you. I did not want to write a lot if no one was still reading the thread, so I wrote the first post expecting that AudioCircle would send me an email if anyone responded. AudioCircle did not send any email. I only returned to the thread because Alvin (of Vinshine, the Denfrips distributor) reminded me of it by sending me a WhatsApp message thanking me for posting.
Here are my impressions:
For 8 days I had a Terminator in my house that is on tour here in Italy (the Terminator, not my house).
I was the third on the list to receive this unit and by the time it got to me it had about 300 hours on it, so it was well broken in.
I compared it to my AMR DP 777 SE, which, in my opinion, is a wonderful DAC. In nearly every parameter the Terminator is the equal of the DP 777 SE. Both present a wide deep soundstage with excellent holographic imaging. I am talking about the kind of sound stage that goes, not only beyond the speakers, but beyond all three walls. Instruments and voices are well defined and well placed within that soundstage. Both DACs present a lush sound and warmish sound (but not overly warm) which is very smooth and analogue... nothing digital about the sound that either produces. I can listen to either of them for hours on end (and often do) without ever suffering any listening fatigue.
And while both manage to present lots of detail they remain musical... never sounding analytical.
Where, in my opinion, the Terminator surpasses the AMR, where it truly shines, is in its ability to reproduce the sound of real instruments. Instruments as reproduced by the Terminator are simply more accurate. To me, it seems that DP does this pretty damn well, but the Terminator does it a lot better.
I think I understand the ''why'' of this difference. A vibrating note produces a fundamental tone to which are attached harmonic tones which are higher in frequency and more subtle than the fundamental. It is these harmonics that the brain picks up and uses to distinguish the differences between instruments. They are what distinguishes the sound of a violin from a cello, from a guitar... an oboe from a clarinet, from a saxophone... etc. And, more significant to our purposes, it is that creates the subtle differences between on violin and another, one cello and another, etc.
I say ''more significant to our purposes" because which of us doesn't have an DAC that let's hear how totally different instruments sound from each other. But a DAC that let's hear the subtle differences between a Strad and a Guarneri...?
Well, this is what we hear when listening to real acoustic instruments, non amplified, in real world settings.
As I hear it, the DP seems to produce the fundamental note with less of those harmonics... The Terminator produces the same fundamental note with more of those harmonics... thus gifting me with a more complete sensation of hearing a real instrument.
And that, for me, was a very satisfying... an emotionally very satisfying... experience. The Terminator provided me with a more emotional connection to the music.
And that is why I had to buy one.
While I had the Terminator here, I listened primarily to it, using the AMR only when I was effecting a real comparison. The Terminator would not let me read while listening. It demanded that I pay attention. And it was stronger than me... I had to obey... even up to 3 or 4 in the morning.
And even then I had a hard time tearing myself away….
''just one more song… just one more song!''
You may see this same mini review (with some differences) on other forums because rather than write the same thing over and over again, i just cut and paste. I first wrote this on Head-fi forum.
I have just been informed by Alvin that my Terminator is on its way and he sent me the DHL tracking number. Good thing too because I have been in a constant state of depression since the demo left my house. Who knows how bad it might have gotten if Alvin had not sent me that good news. I think I can hang on til it gets here... at least I hope so! :lol:
All kidding aside, you might want to check out the third page of the review that Srajan Ebaen of 6MOONS is presently writing on the Terminator. See what he told a reader about purchasing one.
The review is not yet complete. It is still in what Srajan refers to as the ''Preview'' stage. I wrote to him telling him how much the ''Terminator community'' appreciates that which he wrote so far. He wrote back saying, ''It'll still get better..."
A friend here in Italy wrote that two of his friends came to his house to hear it. One owns a dCS Debussy and the other an MSB Platinum IV. They brought these with them to be able to compare. My friend reports that they could not believe their ears. They left his house shaking there heads in wonder at that which they had heard. And they were invested in the DACs they already owned (and paid a lot for)
That same friend, who knows (for good reason) all the Terminator owners here in Italy (so far there are 10, but three others have ordered one after hearing it) reports that owners of Lector Digitube S192, Lector Digicode 2.24HZ, Schiit Yggdrasil, AMR DP777SE, (me), dCS Debussy, have sold their DACs and bought a Terminator. There is a thread on Facebook about it. A lot of it is in Italian, but many have reported in English as well. If you are interested, check it out. The one I am communicating with is named Claudio and it is he who arranged for Vinshine to send a Terminator that could be sent out on tour.
Maybe that's why they call it the Terminator... it does in all of those other DACs...
The Terminator is one hell of a DAC folks... and the price is phenomenal.
Of course, all of this is hearsay and you won't know if any of it is true for you until you try one. :D
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By the way, there are presently 213 members in the Facebook group.
Obviously they are not all Terminator owners... or even interested in the Terminator... the group is for those who are owners of or are interested in Denafrips products: the Ares, Pontus, Venus and the Terminator.
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AudioCircle did not send any email.
OMG! Someone needs to be fired!!!
Or, you could turn your notifications on?
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OMG! Someone needs to be fired!!!
Or, you could turn your notifications on?
Perhaps that is what happened... didn't turn on notifications. How do I do that?
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More good stuff about the Terminator that I forgot to mention:
The quesition has been posited as to what would happen if one of the many many capacitors should blow. How would you ever be able to find it and substitute it.
I asked both Claudio and Alvin about this and I was told, by both of them, that the Terminator is of modular design. If any issue whatsoever should occur on any of its circuit boards , Denafiips will send a brand new board that can be easily substituted for the offending board because the boards are not soldered, they are attached with pins.
They also said that if there should be upgrades in the future this will allow for easy upgrading... just slip out the old board and plug in the new one.
Wait! There's more!! :o
In his not yet completed review of the Terminator, Srajan writes that the Terminator's sound quality, if it should ever actually be able to be improved, can be also improved my downloading software which will be issued by Denafrips.
Cool, no? 8)
On the Facebook thread, a recent purchaser has just reported that the Terminator has ''terminated'' (pun intended) his beloved Metrum Pavane. Actually he did not use that word he used the phrase, ''cancelled out.'' (Another one bites the dust).
His review is quite detailed and heaps a ton of praise on the Terminator. If any of you can read Italian, it might be a fun and informative read.
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Perhaps that is what happened... didn't turn on notifications. How do I do that?
Profile -> Notifications
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Profile -> Notifications
Thanks, I went into Profile > Notifications and set ''turn notification on when you post or reply to a topic.''
But under ''Current Board Notifications'' it says, ''To request notifications from a specific board, click the "notify" button in the index of that board.''
So do I need to do that on every thread that I am participating in?
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Is the Terminator the top of the line? It looks like the board is ready for even more ladder DAC's....
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Is the Terminator the top of the line? It looks like the board is ready for even more ladder DAC's....
At this point, yes, it is the top of the line.
As I indicated above, if there should be any updates in the future they will be easy to implement without even having to send the DAC back to the distributor or manufacturer.
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I just checked my email after seeing that Paul79 had posted a question. And this time, I am happy to report, I did indeed receive a notification from AudioCircle :D
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Just in case anyone is still looking at this thread, here is the link to Srajan Ebaen's review of the Denafrips Terminator.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/denafrips/3.html
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Finally the hard-work pays off. Thank you so much for the supports, much appreciated! :thumb:
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Budget priced? :roll:
Yeah, right; sobriety is so fucking underrated. We're definitely living in the era of unrestrained stupidity.
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Lol!
John,
When one considers the price level that typifies Srajan's man cave and the DACs he mentioned, the sub-$5k Terminator is budget priced, don't you think?
Michael
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I don't know what gear he has, what it's worth, or what his measure of "budget" is, but then again everything is relative. So maybe in his "world" $4300 USD is chump change for a DAC, but I dare say for most of his readership, that's not the case.
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I don't know what gear he has, what it's worth, or what his measure of "budget" is, but then again everything is relative. So maybe in his "world" $4300 USD is chump change for a DAC, but I dare say for most of his readership, that's not the case.
When you consider what league this DAC plays in (MSB Platinum IV, dCS Debussy, Aqua Formula and other costly DACs) and usually comes out the winner, $4300 can seem a small price to pay, to get that kind of performance.
But I have to agree with Wind Chaser that in the absolute sense $4,300 is not really budget.
But it is somewhat of a bargain.
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Interesting that nobody took note of 'budget-priced' being captured in quotes on the award caption. 'Budget-priced' is indeed relative but as lolligagger rightly points out, in this context a device competes against competition in excess of 5 times its price. It's the old Mercedes at Honda pricing thing. In that context, it is budget priced at least to my mind; and to indicate the relative nature of that, the word has still been put inside quotes. Somehow I trusted in the intelligence of our readership to figure that one out; and I bet that most of it actually did :lol:
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And I might add that, as with anything, taking something out of context misses the full picture. If you look at just the award and then look up the €3'600 sell price, the message is one thing. If you read the whole review, then get to the award at its end as intended, then get to the additional commentary and the final comment which, together, add more than 10 very specific competing brands and models to the anecdotal evidence... then the message is quite another. Of course that requires actually reading the entire thing before commenting. Just vis-à-vis unrestrained stupidity and all that.
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Interesting that nobody took note of 'budget-priced' being captured in quotes on the award caption. 'Budget-priced' is indeed relative but as lolligagger rightly points out, in this context a device competes against competition in excess of 5 times its price. It's the old Mercedes at Honda pricing thing. In that context, it is budget priced at least to my mind; and to indicate the relative nature of that, the word has still been put inside quotes. Somehow I trusted in the intelligence of our readership to figure that one out; and I bet that most of it actually did :lol:
Srajan,
Thank you for joining this thread and for offering more clarity to your review.
In addition to clarifying your meaning, you also managed to accomplish two other objectives. The first is to educate the reader on the use of single quotes. Single quotes can be used to denote irony, scorn, or jargon. Which meaning did you intend? Your second accomplishment is to take Wind Chaser's comments about your judgement of what budget-priced means and respond by questioning his intelligence. Even though you used eloquent language to do so, you are still insinuating that he lacks the intelligence of most of your audience. This is a personal attack, sir. :nono:
Please note that I'm suggesting Wind Chaser was not attacking you personally. Rather, he was disagreeing with your opinion of what constitutes budget-priced. Also note that I deliberately avoided the use of single quotes lest I inadvertently confuse readers.
Oh, and lest you misconstrue my intentions. I agree with your assertion that the Terminator DAC is an excellent value. I had already informed Alvin of my interest in auditioning the Terminator before you began reviewing your friend's DAC.
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I respectfully disagree. While I do see see the points that Wind Chaser's posts were making, I think that they were done so far too derisively. Srajan responded less aggressively than the gauntlet thrown his way.
The review award clearly states " a budget-priced true reference DAC ".
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The word "budget" can be used as a noun, a verb, or as an adjective.
In the context of Mr. Ebean's comment, it is being used as an adjective meaning ... inexpensive, as in a "budget hotel" or a "budget holiday" ... in other words ... cheap, inexpensive, economy, affordable, low-cost, low-price, etc. This is not an appropriate word to describe a DAC that sells for over $4000 no matter how you slice it, regardless of whoever would arbitrarily tell everyone else what a so-called "true reference" is.
The word "value" means something else. It denotes ... relative worth or merit ... making it a far better, more accurate description of a $4300 DAC that competes with even more expensive DACs.
Different words have different meanings, it's up to the journalist to choose the right word to best describe his intended thought.
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The word "budget" can be used as a noun, a verb, or as an adjective.
In the context of Mr. Ebean's comment, it is being used as an adjective meaning ... inexpensive, as in a "budget hotel" or a "budget holiday" ... in other words ... cheap, inexpensive, economy, affordable, low-cost, low-price, etc. This is not an appropriate word to describe a DAC that sells for over $4000 no matter how you slice it, regardless of whoever would arbitrarily tell everyone else what a so-called "true reference" is.
The word "value" means something else. It denotes ... relative worth or merit ... making it a far better, more accurate description of a $4300 DAC that competes with even more expensive DACs.
Different words have different meanings, it's up to the journalist to choose the right word to best describe his intended thought.
Wind Chaser,
After reading this, I am inclined to think that brother love may be right.
Why is this so important to you? Srajan responded to you and explained what his intention was. You expressed yourself. He expressed himself.
So now, let us remember that the purpose of this thread is to focus on stereo components...Denafrips DACs, of which the Terminator is one... and not to focus on semantics.
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I saw a review on Head-Fi saying the price was $3800. Now $4300?
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Yep,seem like price is all over the place.For something this expensive , I gotta hear it first In my system before I buy one.i hope they're have a 30 day in home trial. :thumb:
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I saw a review on Head-Fi saying the price was $3800. Now $4300?
Hi sir,
The price was USD$3980+300 DHL shipping.
In early July, we decided to change our webstore currency to Singapore Dollar (SGD) to fight with the currency fluctuation. The price is finalized @ SGD5860 :wink:
Rgds,
Alvin
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If I recall correctly, the price was originally listed in USD. Then, the exchange rate changed to the detriment of the Singapore Dollar and started gouging into Alvin's profits. To protect himself, he now pegs the price on the Singapore Dollar, so the price in USD fluctuates daily. Also, shipping charges weren't included in that $3800 whereas the $4300 does include shipping.
Cross your fingers in hopes the USD gains strength this year. :thumb:
Ah, Alvin answered while I was typing.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168991)
IMPRESSIVE
But you might regret not waiting for:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168992)
:lol:
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Any update ? :thumb:
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There's a Face Book page for Denafrips owners (and those who dream of owning one) that gets a lot more traffic than this thread. Look for "Denafrips Audiophile Owners". It's a closed group, but many non-owners have joined.
Michael
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Here you go the facebook group: Denafrips Audiophile Owner (https://www.facebook.com/groups/402180550137936/?ref=bookmarks)
:D
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you must log-in to go further… not much use if you don’t want to joing Facebook.
dave
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Hi guys,
I posted in another forum, but I thought I should share it here as well.
We have had someone in mind for months now but wanted to make sure that person was up to our standard of service. After a couple of repairs were done very well, we are happy to announce the US service center in Atlanta GA, Mike Powell Audio, a 15 year veteran in the Hifi industry with the background in modification and repair as well as design and manufacturing.
Henceforth, for US customers, you do not need to ship the faulty unit back to us. Mike offers 'white glove' courier service. All you need to do is to pack the unit back in its original packaging, tape it, and wait for the courier to pick up from your doorstep.
The turn around time is approx 1-2 weeks. Once fixed, the unit will be returned to you, door to door delivery.
More details here: USServiceCenter (https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2018/06/06/DENAFRIPS-USA-Service-Center)
Many thanks.
Sincerely,
Alvin @ Vinshine Audio
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Thread revival.
I’m looking for a contact update for Denafrips. I have tried to reach out to Alvin have not heard anything.
I would like to audition a unit? Any contacts for that here in the United States?
Thanks
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Thread revival.
I’m looking for a contact update for Denafrips. I have tried to reach out to Alvin have not heard anything.
I would like to audition a unit? Any contacts for that here in the United States?
Thanks
Literally in the post above yours
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I have the Terminator if anyone has any questions on its sound.
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I have the Terminator if anyone has any questions on its sound.
How does the tone and timbre compare to other dacs you've owned?
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Alvin is very easy to seek out. As zacho pointed out, Alvin posted directly above your post - PM him. Alternatively, contact him via his website: https://www.vinshineaudio.com/contact-us
Alvin is very approachable. He answers emails promptly and is a nice guy.
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It is the best DAC in my system to date.
How does the tone and timbre compare to other dacs you've owned?
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Marty,
Have you heard any of the SW1X AudioDesign DACs? Do you have an idea how they might compare to the Terminator?
http://sw1xad.co.uk/products/?prod_cat=digital-to-analogue-converters-dacs
Regards,
Michael
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Michael
I have not heard of SW1X until your post. Here is the list of DACs that have been in my system rotation. BDA-2, T&A DAC8, Directstream, Gungnir MB, Holo Spring level 3, MP-D2 MK2. Just received my Yggdrasil last week from Schiit with the analog and USB update so I am excited to hear the changes.
Marty,
Have you heard any of the SW1X AudioDesign DACs? Do you have an idea how they might compare to the Terminator?
http://sw1xad.co.uk/products/?prod_cat=digital-to-analogue-converters-dacs
Regards,
Michael
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Alvin is very easy to seek out. As zacho pointed out, Alvin posted directly above your post - PM him. Alternatively, contact him via his website: https://www.vinshineaudio.com/contact-us
Alvin is very approachable. He answers emails promptly and is a nice guy.
I’ll try him through his website. I sent a pm 2 + weeks ago with no reply.
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That definitely doesn't sound like Alvin. Shoot him an email and he will respond. vinshineaudio@gmail.com
I’ll try him through his website. I sent a pm 2 + weeks ago with no reply.
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Hi Tony,
The Terminator is very dynamic with excellent prat. It is very open and clear with nice tonal balance with very good micro and macro detail and scales beautifully. I would say it errs and the warm and full side of neutral but just a little without being slow.
IMS, I like it better than my Directstream DAC. The DS is softer sounding and more laid back, but also very nice sounding and might be better in a forward and brighter system.
Joe
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Michael
I have not heard of SW1X until your post. Here is the list of DACs that have been in my system rotation. BDA-2, T&A DAC8, Directstream, Gungnir MB, Holo Spring level 3, MP-D2 MK2. Just received my Yggdrasil last week from Schiit with the analog and USB update so I am excited to hear the changes.
Wig turned me onto the SW1X produced DACs. If I recall correctly, he initially bought their DAC II Standard (STD). Now he has moved up the line to the III STD. He's delighted with this line of DACs. I have not heard them myself. However, the Terminator's price falls in between the II and III models. I may try to audition one before too long, or I may try the Terminator. [My wife might kill me if I tried both of them. :roll:]
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Joe I agree with your sonic assessment. Out of all the DACs I own the Terminator portrays an amazing sense of realism and spatial accuracy. IMO all the other DACs sound very similar.
Hi Tony,
The Terminator is very dynamic with excellent prat. It is very open and clear with nice tonal balance with very good micro and macro detail and scales beautifully. I would say it errs and the warm and full side of neutral but just a little without being slow.
IMS, I like it better than my Directstream DAC. The DS is softer sounding and more laid back, but also very nice sounding and might be better in a forward and brighter system.
Joe
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Has anyone heard the Pontus? Thoughts and or impressions?
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Comment by coach59 on Audiogon Forum:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/denafrips-dac-owner-impressions-feedback-general-discussion-que/post?postid=1567792#1567792
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd/post?postid=1553904#1553904
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/denafrips-dac-owner-impressions-feedback-general-discussion-que/post?postid=1572596#1572596
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/denafrips-dac-owner-impressions-feedback-general-discussion-que/post?highlight=pontus&postid=1619136#1619136
Perhaps you can write him and ask.
Also:
Review on Positive Feedback:
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/denafrips-pontus-dac/
Good luck
Vinh Vu
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Here is the list of DACs that have been in my system rotation. BDA-2, T&A DAC8, Directstream, Gungnir MB, Holo Spring level 3, MP-D2 MK2. Just received my Yggdrasil last week from Schiit with the analog and USB update so I am excited to hear the changes.
That's an impressive list of DACs that you dethroned with your Terminator! I've read quite a bit about several of those (the T&A, DirectStream, and HS lvl3 in particular), though I haven't yet had the privilege of auditioning any them thus far. Do you have a system description somewhere to give us some context?
Thanks!
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That definitely doesn't sound like Alvin. Shoot him an email and he will respond. vinshineaudio@gmail.com
Sorry guys, just read this thread. I've not been monitoring forums, my bad!
It would be easier to reach me at vinshineaudio@gmail.com :
:thumb:
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I enjoyed a friendly and informative chat with Mike Powell of Vinshine audio.This guy knows his stuff and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a product on his recommendation.
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Powell is not “of” Vinshine, but rather a retail seller.
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I thought Mike was the factory authorized repair center in the US for Vinshine?
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https://www.mikepowellaudio.com/learn/
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Denafrips Pontus: Very short post, further thoughts and review to follow.
Highly impressive, solid build quality, outstanding dynamics with all of the micro details and a huge soundstage with a more analogue sound.
I’m still in the honeymoon phase, two weeks in, and still gathering my thoughts. However, this piece has me back into Audio and fully engaged. I’m sitting down and actually listening to music 🎶 again instead of evaluating or criticizing.
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System: PS Audio P15, SGC SonicTransporter i7, Microrendu & SOtM sms-200, Roon, Curious Cable regen link, ARC REF5SE, 2 - Nord 1200as as mono amps, Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversary MKII. JPS Aluminata interconnects, JPS SC3 biwire, JPS Kaptovator PC.
That's an impressive list of DACs that you dethroned with your Terminator! I've read quite a bit about several of those (the T&A, DirectStream, and HS lvl3 in particular), though I haven't yet had the privilege of auditioning any them thus far. Do you have a system description somewhere to give us some context?
Thanks!
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Denafrips Pontus: Very short post, further thoughts and review to follow.
Highly impressive, solid build quality, outstanding dynamics with all of the micro details and a huge soundstage with a more analogue sound.
I’m still in the honeymoon phase, two weeks in, and still gathering my thoughts. However, this piece has me back into Audio and fully engaged. I’m sitting down and actually listening to music 🎶 again instead of evaluating or criticizing.
Sorry to dig up an old thread. Saw this post and was wondering if you ever did a follow up after you had more time on the Pontus? I'd be interested to hear your long term thoughts.
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Hello,
Any response you get from carusoracer, who bought the Pontus in Nov. of 2018, will shortly be irrelevant. The Pontus and the Venus are about to receive new DSP boards. The Terminator and the Ares II already have them.
I have a Terminator and I got the new DSP board and inserted it (very easy to do) and it really makes a difference in my opinion.... in Srajan Ebaen's opinion as well. You can read about it in 6MOONS.
The only way a reply from carusoracer could be relevant to your interest would be if he had installed the new DSP board... but it has not been released yet for the Pontus.
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Hello,
Any response you get from carusoracer, who bought the Pontus in Nov. of 2018, will shortly be irrelevant. The Pontus and the Venus are about to receive new DSP boards. The Terminator and the Ares II already have them.
I have a Terminator and I got the new DSP board and inserted it (very easy to do) and it really makes a difference in my opinion.... in Srajan Ebaen's opinion as well. You can read about it in 6MOONS.
The only way a reply from carusoracer could be relevant to your interest would be if he had installed the new DSP board... but it has not been released yet for the Pontus.
Any ideas on a timeline for the new board? I know "soon" can be a big variable between companies. Being unfamiliar with Denafrips, I don't know if soon means a couple weeks, or just over a year.
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Replaceable DSP. Very clever. I'm guessing by DSP they mean filters. Having worked on a diy Soekris R2R recently I was reminded as to the dramatic impact custom filters can make since it allows you to add any number of them yourself. Not like the typical basic Apodizing, Minimum, Linear option on most dacs. A good custom filter can radically change the presentation for the better. I wonder if that's one aspect that separated the performance between the Denafrips models to begin with...
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Any ideas on a timeline for the new board? I know "soon" can be a big variable between companies. Being unfamiliar with Denafrips, I don't know if soon means a couple weeks, or just over a year.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you.
Alvin/Vinshine tells me that it should be available in a month.
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Replaceable DSP. Very clever. I'm guessing by DSP they mean filters.
Not just the filters, but the input processing as well. USB input receiver architecture went from Amanero to a custom ARM based implementation. (Beware the typo in many of the links... they say 'AMR' in some places when they mean 'ARM'.)
https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/dsp-board-terminator-dac
https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2019/05/31/DSD1024-PCM1536---Are-you-ready
The new board was a very nice upgrade in the Terminator, so I'd expect it to offer similar improvements in the other DACs. I've actually stopped upsampling to DSD with HQPlayer for the moment. (I'm not saying I won't go back to it at some point, but probably not until I first get my last couple of room treatments and some cable updates sorted.)
As impressed as I am with the DAC, they do need to update the manual regarding filter selection, and to be more thorough in general. I contacted Alvin a while back via their web-form asking whether hitting 'mute' first was required, and what LEDs would be lit to indicate which filter (fast or slow), but I didn't hear back and I didn't have time to try again.
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You do press the "mute" button then "mode" button to select.
1x 8x led on = slow filter
1x off 8x led on = sharp filter
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Sorry it took so long to get back to you.
Alvin/Vinshine tells me that it should be available in a month.
Oh wow, very soon! I’ll be curious to hear others thoughts as these roll out. This line of DACs was already on my radar, and they will be even more so I they are getting upgrades. Hopefully I can get my ears on one at some point.
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You do press the "mute" button then "mode" button to select.
Thanks, Pete. (Yeah, that post in the head-fi thread showed up after I'd originally emailed Alvin.) Have you compared the USB vs. the I2S (via your SU-6) since the DSP board update? Thanks!
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Thanks, Pete. (Yeah, that post in the head-fi thread showed up after I'd originally emailed Alvin.) Have you compared the USB vs. the I2S (via your SU-6) since the DSP board update? Thanks!
Yeah, I went back and forth for a couple of weeks and the SU-6 came across little veiled overall with a little less air on top. I'm keeping the US-6 it is very good, but just not with the Terminator and the new board.
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Got delivery of a Denifrips Pontus II a couple weeks ago and am burning in the unit by listening to music / using the ISOTEK - Full System Enhancer Burn-In CD. Transport is a newly arrived NuPrime CDT-10 transport. Using mainly the I2S inputs, with the stock CDT-10 cable.
Early on there was some congestion is some musical passages. However, that has been removed as the Pontus II accumulated more hours of playtime, probably nearing the 175 hour mark now. Running the CDT-10 source output as DSD 64 via I2S seems the best sound so far with my disc collection (CDT-10 cam upsample on all digital inputs: HDMI I2S Sampling Rates Converter (SRC): 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, 192KHz, 352.8KHZ, 384KHz, 705KHZ, 768KHZ, DoP64, DoP128, DoP256).
Some early thoughts so far: absolutely great and natural sounding detail from the bass through treble ranges. Instrument / voice positioning natural and clearly defined, much like seeing the instruments / vocalists in space. Black / dead-quiet background. Soundstage impressive side to side, and front to rear. So far not hearing much difference from the I2s input when using AES/EBU, coaxial inputs, but I'm sticking primarily with the I2S.
Impressed with Mr. Alvin Chee of Denafrips and the Denafrips company. Unit was packaged well, best I've seen so far. Mr. Chee is wicked responsive to questions. I understand that the Terminator II is supposed to be a great unit; however, my spouse and I are more than happy with what we're hearing / experiencing.
Happy listening!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224662)