AudioCircle
Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => Cars and Bikes => Topic started by: Ice10 on 16 Mar 2021, 02:40 am
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Based on your experience with your Tesla(s) would you buy another if and when the opportunity arises? If not I’d appreciate hearing why you wouldn’t and what you’d consider instead.
I ask as I’m running out of suitable options so I’m looking at a Model Y and finding myself strangely reluctant to dive into this brave new world.
Thank you.
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I have owned a 2013 Model S60 for almost four years. I have colleagues who own Nissan Leafs and a Chevy Bolt. For long trips any Tesla is the best choice at the moment due to the extensive and reliable supercharger network. Other charging networks are growing but I read quite a bit about slow charging speeds for long distance traveling and too many inoperable chargers for good peace of mind. For shorter trips all of the currently available EVs seem to be quite good. Because the tech is changing rather quickly leasing seems to be a popular option. The older model Bolts are going for quite low prices. One pays a bit of a premium for Teslas, but they are the most advanced EVs at the moment.
Frank van Alstine seems to like his Model 3. If I needed to replace my car I would be likely to stay with Tesla, even though I tried to buy a Bolt when they first came out. The local dealer was so interested in selling me one that after visiting the dealership wanting to put down a deposit they never bothered to contact me. If you are lucky a local Nissan or Chevy dealership might actually have a new Leaf (much improved over the original) or Bolt that is ready for a test drive. Dealers are notorious for not keeping a demo vehicle charged, if they even have one. GM seems to be finally getting serious about EVs so maybe things are better at dealers now.
In a couple of years there should be many more choices as VW, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Volvo, Audio, Mini and others start offering more cars.
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I have owned my Tesla Model 3 since June, 2019. 10,000 miles on it now and no problems at all. I have only visited my local Tesla service agency once, for a 15 minute fix to add a vent hose to the battery pack and that was two years ago. No issues with panel fit, paint, or anything else at all.
Its a blast to drive and is faster then me. I keep it in the chill mode most of the time. Often free over the air software upgrades make the car actually improve with age. Auto pilot functions have become smoother and smarter and with more capability. I am now waiting for the full self driving on city streets upgrade due soon.
My longest trip was 4000 miles in one week to visit my sister in Phoenix, AZ. Went from Minnesota out via the southern route and back through the high mountains. Never had a single "range anxiety" issue. There were always fast Tesla Superchargers wherever I needed them. Used lane keeping and smart speed control almost all the way. Makes cross country driving really relaxing and safe and while keeping at least one hand on the wheel (required), I could actually look around and enjoy the scenery much of the time.
Advantages: Supercharging network. This is light years better then any other charging scheme, Handling, performance, and safety. Rated best overall for crash protection and also lowest rate of crash involvement by a factor of four when all safety functions are engaged. Very comfortable seats, low noise, no shifting, no oil changes, no winterizing, no maintenance at all. Zero dollars spent in two years on the car except for electricity. Normally I charge at home from a 240V line in my garage so it is always ready to go.
Would I do it again? Absolutely, except that I probably would go for a Model Y now for its increased load capability.
Tesla's future? They have three giant new factories under construction in Austin,TX, Berlin,Germany, and Shanghi, China. Amateur drone pilots are documenting every step of the production at these three venues. You can follow them all on U-Tube. Just search for Tesla Texas, Tesla Berlin, and Tesla Shanghi. Many hours of entertaining video posted there.
Drive one and you will be convinced.
Frank
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Thank you both for your time and sharing your experiences. I’ve driven both the Model 3 and Model Y and it was a quick decision that the additional space in the Y made it the winner. I think for a family of four the Model 3 was just too limited on luggage space.
One thing that I find really funny is now that I’ve driven and will very likely buy an electric car when I drive past a gas station or an oil change place in my current vehicle it just seems like SO much work to go through those routines. I guess that means I’m hooked.
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Own a model 3 leased new last September ! I hardly get 180 miles on a battery that is supposed to give me 240 miles my son owns a Nissan Leaf 2019 , it gives him 160/171 miles but he is a college going student, it is quieter, I picked my Tesla at the factory outlet in Fermont not sure about the QC compared to german or japanese cars
The 3 is noisier, the dickey closes with a thump and is small it did not have mud guards and had to install an after market mud guards and a kit to make it quieter, compare to charging at a supercharger its costs more for the same distance as my wife's latest KIA Forte which gives us 441 miles on a tank full !
We do have two level 2 chargers installed in the garage but I think the electric cars have some way to go until i can get the same performance as an ICE vehicle just my take on it !
Asghar
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We've had our model 3 since December 2018 with zero issues. It has about 15K miles. No oil changes like an ICE car or any other maintenance in more than 2 years. It is impressive! With the LR battery and home 240V charging it is an absolute pleasure to use.
Would definitely buy again but possibly the Y model for the reasons stated by others.
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... what everyone else said to the positive!
We're right at our 2nd anniversary with our Model S and it's very difficult to imagine spending money on a gas contraption. I shake my head when I think of the Rube Goldberg levels of complexity that go into making gas cars feasible, and having to stop at a gas station to mess with hazardous chemicals seems like an act of insanity. I admit that I do enjoy pulling into the gas station to fill a tank of the stinky stuff for our mower though.
We didn't give fuel cost savings any consideration when we purchased, but we calculated that they have been considerable. 99% of the time we charge at home.
It's probably different on the west coast where Teslas are comparatively common, but I have never had so many people stop and ask me about my car. I see people looking and pointing at stop lights, but the ultimate proof of cool is that the neighborhood kids also tell us our car is awesome!
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I’ve had my M3 LR AWD for 2 years, and can add a few more positives and negatives to the discussion:
I use it predominantly for local driving, only had two 4 hour road trips, what I did notice was how relaxed I and stress free it was. I though it was the lack of engine noise but, after seeing the YouTube video with Elon Musk and Sandy Munro, now realise that the seats play a big role in this. Apparently Tesla make their seats in house, unlike other manufacturers, and focused on eliminating pressure points. My eldest son has back problems and has to take a break every few hours when he’s driving a Toyota or BMW, he doesn’t have to stop when he’s using the Tesla. The first reaction I get from Tesla haters is ‘it takes you half an hour to recharge’ which is true, what they don’t understand is most of my charging is overnight at home - when I total up how much time I’ve saved by not going to a gas station it’s probably a significant saving.
Years ago I trained with the Audi rally team in Germany, which means my driving style isn’t typical and I do take a car to it’s braking and handling limits (when it’s safe to do so). Based on this I think it handles great until you get closer to the limits, but then it doesn’t handle as well as BMW M series that I’ve driven when I try to push it hard. I foolishly ordered the FSD, that was promised and keeps being promised, but still waiting for it - a mistake as it’s more like a kickstart IT project that’s always coming tomorrow, but never materialises. I’ve joined the local Tesla owners Facebook group and new owners, particularly when the Model Y was introduced, have issues with QC - Musk confirms this during the YouTube interview. Another negative that crops up on the local FB group is tire wear, many new owners are coming from Honda’s and used to getting 35k plus miles out of a set of tires and shocked when they struggle to get more than 12-15k with their Tesla’s. I point out that this is a heavy car with close to super car acceleration and I consider anything above 10k is a bonus! The only way to extend the tire wear is using chill mode. Like most other users I don’t know what a Tesla Service Center looks like, zero maintenance, but next week I’ve got a state inspection booked with a local Tesla approved body shop and asked them to clean and lubricate the brake callipers - because of the regen braking Tesla are recommending this in colder climates due to the minimal use and potential seizing up.
The last question: would I buy again? I’ve pondered this question over the last few years and as time goes on it’s becoming increasingly more difficult to go back to an ICE, so it would have to be another EV. I believe the traditional auto manufacturers don’t get it when it comes to building an EV, they’re stuck in the old ‘Detroit’ paradigm. Tesla are not a traditional auto maker and have built an IT platform on wheels, and have a totally different paradigm - they’re approaching auto manufacturing and ownership experience from a different direction. So my next car would have to be another Tesla, and I’d also look at the Lucid Air that’s being launched this year.
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The last question: would I buy again? I’ve pondered this question over the last few years and as time goes on it’s becoming increasingly more difficult to go back to an ICE, so it would have to be another EV. I believe the traditional auto manufacturers don’t get it when it comes to building an EV, they’re stuck in the old ‘Detroit’ paradigm. Tesla are not a traditional auto maker and have built an IT platform on wheels, and have a totally different paradigm - they’re approaching auto manufacturing and ownership experience from a different direction. So my next car would have to be another Tesla, and I’d also look at the Lucid Air that’s being launched this year.
I've been watching a lot of EV news videos. In the next few years, there's going to be a lot of new EV's coming out of the woodwork! 8) The experience of transportation will change. Prices will drop far more than you will ever believe too. Check out the new EV's from Hyundai for example, especially their Prophecy project.
(Oops, sorry for the digression. Back to Tesla....)
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I've been watching a lot of EV news videos. In the next few years, there's going to be a lot of new EV's coming out of the woodwork! 8) The experience of transportation will change. Prices will drop far more than you will ever believe too. Check out the new EV's from Hyundai for example, especially their Prophecy project.
Very true, and there are some proven adaptable automakers among them. VW's early and strong commitment top EV's should also not be underestimated (the Taycan Cross Turismo is especially interesting to me). With all that said, Phillistine's observation of Tesla's being more of an IT platform and Tesla more like an IT company than a traditional manufacturer, all coupled with vast quantities of real world data from every Tesla vehicle on the road simply cannot be underestimated. They're not perfect though, everything from ramp-up quality issues to frequent tinkering with prices, FSD remaining a phantom and Elon Musks's routinely idiotic social media posts are all areas that can stand improvement. Nevertheless, as a driving experience I believe they're hard to touch for anything that isn't highly specialized like the BMW M series etc.
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Very true, and there are some proven adaptable automakers among them. VW's early and strong commitment top EV's should also not be underestimated (the Taycan Cross Turismo is especially interesting to me). With all that said, Phillistine's observation of Tesla's being more of an IT platform and Tesla more like an IT company than a traditional manufacturer, all coupled with vast quantities of real world data from every Tesla vehicle on the road simply cannot be underestimated. They're not perfect though, everything from ramp-up quality issues to frequent tinkering with prices, FSD remaining a phantom and Elon Musks's routinely idiotic social media posts are all areas that can stand improvement. Nevertheless, as a driving experience I believe they're hard to touch for anything that isn't highly specialized like the BMW M series etc.
I remember hearing about one post he made where he claimed that he has a Battery that used non-rare-earth substances to store the electricity even more efficiently, but I never saw anything official about that claim. Is that one of the ones you're referring to?
If something like this ever happens, I will start to get excited about EV's. Until then, I am at best, a skeptic. That's an awful lot of batteries needing rare earth minerals, and I don't think that's possible. Hopeful something else comes along, whether it's Electric or Hydrogen or something we haven't thought of yet.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbhxYIP9fg0
Also there is these small probls::
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+car+burn
New batteries are not cheap:
https://www.joe.co.uk/life/tesla-owner-blows-up-car-and-burns-musk-effigy-in-protest-at-cost-of-replacing-battery-308278
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Own a Telsa 2019 Model 3 My son owned a Leaf My gripe with Tesla are 2 folds one the noise level inside the car are much higher than other cars and find that for me the bucket seats are low and not too comfortable :duh:
Asghar
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We’ve had a Y for about a year. Absolutely love it! Period!
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At three years I am still very happy with my Model 3.
Zero service, zero repairs, zero issues and is still fun and easy to drive.
I did spend $50 to have Tesla mobile service come to my home for a tire rotation. Excellent next day response.
Only gripe is that Beta self driving software is still driving like a new beginning teenager. Slow, jerky, and easily confused. Great on highways, not so great on city streets.
Bluebot is still a keeper though.
Frank
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Just bought a 2023 Model Y. Had the wall charger installed a couple of days ago and am picking it up on Tuesday. Woot.
It was a lot cheaper than I thought it would be. Last year the long range AWD (dual motor) Model Y was selling for $65k. 6 months ago they reduced the price to $52k. AND, because it's fully made in America (including batteries), I get a tax rebate of $7500 from the federal government. In addition, Colorado offers another tax rebate of $5k (used to be $2k but they bumped it up this month to $5k). So that means I am getting a brand new Model Y for $39,500. That's insane.
The 2 things that made me settle on the Model Y is it's got 330 miles of range on a single charge, and the Tesla Supercharger network is pretty damn extensive now:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255161)
If I'm going on a long range trip, it's already pretty comprehensive, but the crazy thing is Tesla continues to build out new Superchargers at a pretty mad pace. So this is the 'worst' this map will ever look, it will only be better with each passing month.
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Admittedly I am a Tesla Fanboy. I own a 2023 Model Y. It is the best car I have ever driven and owned. If you can afford the Tesla just get the tesla, they are years ahead tech wise. I recommend watching Sandy Muneos YouTube Channel about his electric Vehicle Teardowns
https://www.youtube.com/@MunroLive
I would buy another one in a heartbeat. If you have charging at home it is an amazing city car. When you start doing longer trips you will need to take the time to look at your route and plan your charging. In the USA it is much better than in Canada (I am in Calgary Alberta) It will add time to your trip for sure. We still have a ICE vehicle (2018 Subaru Outback) and rarely drive it. The driving experience is much worse. We only drive it if we need two cars or go on very long trips in the winter. Temperature will reduce your range significantly so if you are in a cold climate account for that. No regrets. I would not buy any OTHER electric vehicle
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Admittedly I am a Tesla Fanboy. I own a 2023 Model Y. It is the best car I have ever driven and owned. If you can afford the Tesla just get the tesla, they are years ahead tech wise. I recommend watching Sandy Muneos YouTube Channel about his electric Vehicle Teardowns
https://www.youtube.com/@MunroLive
I would buy another one in a heartbeat. If you have charging at home it is an amazing city car. When you start doing longer trips you will need to take the time to look at your route and plan your charging. In the USA it is much better than in Canada (I am in Calgary Alberta) It will add time to your trip for sure. We still have a ICE vehicle (2018 Subaru Outback) and rarely drive it. The driving experience is much worse. We only drive it if we need two cars or go on very long trips in the winter. Temperature will reduce your range significantly so if you are in a cold climate account for that. No regrets. I would not buy any OTHER electric vehicle
That's the thing, the Teslas aren't even that expensive anymore. If you don't need AWD, you can get a Model 3 RWD for $40k list, right now (I just checked the price). If you are in the US, you get another $7500 of the list price, bringing it down to $32.5k. In most states in the US there's also at least $2k in state level incentives (or even more, in some states like CO). So even taking the lower $2k out, that gets you a brand new M3 for $30.5k. I'm just flabbergasted at how affordable they are now.
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Bought my Tesla Model Y Long Range is March. Love the car and will not go back to ICE vehicles. Had hybrids for years and love them, but this is on another level driving experience.
Also have a Tesla Solar Roof with two Powerwalls and basically make all the electrical power I need for the house and car.
The Tesla Inverters are basically the same THD level as the normal local grid.
Works for us.
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No way I would support Elon Musk. No E-car here.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207867)
Don P
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No way I would support Elon Musk. No E-car here.
Don P
Pretty much every car manufacturer has fully electric vehicles now. I mean, no one is saying you have to get a BEV, you can drive whatever you want. But if your reason for not buying an EV is 'Elon bad', then maybe take a look a something that Ford is offering. Or VW, or Volvo, or Porsche, or Audi, etc....
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Undertowogt1 - also located in the Calgary area (just south) and a year ago I was offered the opportunity to drive a Tesla Plaid. First time ever in a Tesla and I'm sure it's something one can get used to over time and maybe not with the caveat I drove it around my little town and a few rural roads for abiut half hour. The 2 things I didn't like about it were the autopilot but that's likely due to me being a control freak and the fact the car didn't coast once you remove your foot from the gas. To me it's akin to driving an electric golf cart that way. I didn't have the nerve to launch it despite being offered the chance to do so but as the owner said if you're not in one during a launch you'll never know what the car can do so we found a quiet road and he launched it. Scared the crap out of me - seemed like within seconds were over 125MPH, what a rush! A damn site faster than anything I've been in for many decades for sure but didn't garnish the thumbs up I get when tooting around in my 1970 RS Z28 which BTW only gets 10MPG on super high test gas that costs about 8 bucks a gallon. An EV is likely an eventuality should I live long enough but I'm not ready yet..
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Congratulations Tyson, it's the automotive equivalent of going from a feature phone to a smart phone! If you're interested in data reports from your Y check out Recurrent Auto (no affiliation etc.) who will pull data and give you reports on how yours is comparing to "the fleet".
https://www.recurrentauto.com/for-owners
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Undertowogt1 - also located in the Calgary area (just south) and a year ago I was offered the opportunity to drive a Tesla Plaid. First time ever in a Tesla and I'm sure it's something one can get used to over time and maybe not with the caveat I drove it around my little town and a few rural roads for abiut half hour. The 2 things I didn't like about it were the autopilot but that's likely due to me being a control freak and the fact the car didn't coast once you remove your foot from the gas. To me it's akin to driving an electric golf cart that way. I didn't have the nerve to launch it despite being offered the chance to do so but as the owner said if you're not in one during a launch you'll never know what the car can do so we found a quiet road and he launched it. Scared the crap out of me - seemed like within seconds were over 125MPH, what a rush! A damn site faster than anything I've been in for many decades for sure but didn't garnish the thumbs up I get when tooting around in my 1970 RS Z28 which BTW only gets 10MPG on super high test gas that costs about 8 bucks a gallon. An EV is likely an eventuality should I live long enough but I'm not ready yet..
That is a matter of setting up the S Plaid in Rolling mode. It acts more like a regular ICE in that case. My wife uses it when she drives my Model Y as it feels more normal to her. It was in Hold mode the way you drove it.
No launch mode in the Model Y LR version. Just Chill and Standard. Standard was enough to take it to a road coarse class and have some fun with it. :)
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Congrats Tyson! I'm retired and pay no taxes so can't take advantage of the rebate, that bumps many EV's out of my budget.
I recently found out my neighbor drives a hybrid, her KIA is a stealth hybrid because the EV nameplate on the back fell off, wonder if that says anything about quality control. She loves it and regularly drives from Tucson to DC without any problems. I just looked at KIA prices and the new hybrids are amazingly affordable even without the tax credit.
A good friend has a 2020 Toyota Prius Prime plug-in, we go everywhere in it, that's a nice spaceship too. She recently took it in for the 3-year checkup and was browsing the showroom while the car was being serviced. A salesman said to her that if she bought a 2023 Prius Prime they would give her exactly what she paid in 2020 as a trade-in value. Used car prices are crazy.
Tucson Subaru has 14 of the new all electric Solterra on the lot. List is $45,000 but out the door price will be closer to $50,000 with taxes and fees by the time they get through with you. I just bought an Outback from them, they are very nice sharks but they don't wheel and deal like in the old days.
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Congratulations Tyson, it's the automotive equivalent of going from a feature phone to a smart phone! If you're interested in data reports from your Y check out Recurrent Auto (no affiliation etc.) who will pull data and give you reports on how yours is comparing to "the fleet".
https://www.recurrentauto.com/for-owners
That's very cool, thanks for the link!
Congrats Tyson! I'm retired and pay no taxes so can't take advantage of the rebate, that bumps many EV's out of my budget.
I recently found out my neighbor drives a hybrid, her KIA is a stealth hybrid because the EV nameplate on the back fell off, wonder if that says anything about quality control. She loves it and regularly drives from Tucson to DC without any problems. I just looked at KIA prices and the new hybrids are amazingly affordable even without the tax credit.
A good friend has a 2020 Toyota Prius Prime plug-in, we go everywhere in it, that's a nice spaceship too. She recently took it in for the 3-year checkup and was browsing the showroom while the car was being serviced. A salesman said to her that if she bought a 2023 Prius Prime they would give her exactly what she paid in 2020 as a trade-in value. Used car prices are crazy.
Tucson Subaru has 14 of the new all electric Solterra on the lot. List is $45,000 but out the door price will be closer to $50,000 with taxes and fees by the time they get through with you. I just bought an Outback from them, they are very nice sharks but they don't wheel and deal like in the old days.
Thanks Wayne! I do think there's a bunch of very inexpensive EV's coming but not there yet. I know Tesla is coming out with a $25k vehicle in the next couple of years, as is VW. There's also good Chinese cars that are well built like the MG4.
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That is a matter of setting up the S Plaid in Rolling mode. It acts more like a regular ICE in that case. My wife uses it when she drives my Model Y as it feels more normal to her. It was in Hold mode the way you drove it.
No launch mode in the Model Y LR version. Just Chill and Standard. Standard was enough to take it to a road coarse class and have some fun with it. :)
I actually prefer that My Y does not roll or coast. I rarely even use the brake, I love seeing the regen working. its great. Standard mode acceleration is already ridiculous IMO, still cant get enough of it
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My 2019 Model 3 is four years old now and no repairs or service at all other than a tire rotation done by Tesla mobile service..
It replaced an Audi S6 which was a money sink for service and repairs.
It’s quicker and lots more fun to drive. Test drive one and you will figure it out.
Frank
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Elon has tweeted his way out of my business, no way I'd support him.
EVs in general? Buy what you like but please don't pretend it's so much better for the environment, your choice of 2-ton personal conveyance just doesn't matter that much. EVs are the future, but right now the best EV is a bicycle. I have one, it's awesome and replaces my car for quite a lot of local trips. What we need is a shift in lifestyle, driving around 2-ton vehicles on a whim everywhere is what isn't sustainable. I look forward to a time in the future where both energy production as well as battery tech is advanced enough to actually meet the fantasies the average EV owner has about their current cars.
Performance? No. My friend owns a M3 Performance and besides it's one party trick, it's ability to accelerate quickly from a stop, it's pretty bad. It weighs a ton and handles like crap. My friend is looking into a whole new suspension for it. Another friend has a Model S with the air suspension, it's better but even larger and heavier. Nice cars overall, but the thoughts that EVs are so much better to drive is generally put out there by people who have never driven a car near it's limits and have no real experience, have never driven a car on track. Here's a Taycan's results at a recent autox race, 19th out of 73. Not bad, but I beat him by 2.5s in my Chevy, lol (5th place). No Tesla is going to beat the Taycan either.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxDrnhvZ/Top25-Porsche-AX.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qg1YNVk1)
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EVs in general? Buy what you like but please don't pretend it's so much better for the environment, your choice of 2-ton personal conveyance just doesn't matter that much. EVs are the future, but right now the best EV is a bicycle. I have one, it's awesome and replaces my car for quite a lot of local trips. What we need is a shift in lifestyle, driving around 2-ton vehicles on a whim everywhere is what isn't sustainable. I look forward to a time in the future where both energy production as well as battery tech is advanced enough to actually meet the fantasies the average EV owner has about their current cars.
It's still quite a bit better for the environment, so EVs shouldn't be dismissed quite so quickly.
"Even if the grid were entirely fueled by coal, 31% less energy would be needed to charge EVs than to fuel gasoline cars. If EVs were charged by natural gas, the total energy demand for highway transportation would fall by nearly half. Add in hydropower or other renewables, and the result gets even better, saving up to three-fourths of the energy currently used by gasoline-powered vehicles," according to Yale Climate Connections
Your point is still valid. A shift in lifestyle could easily compete with these numbers. Let's say you are now working in a hybrid setup (3 days office / 2 days WFH) and you reduce your outings or bike for local trips, it probably competes with the EV with natural gas electricity generation result (i.e. 50% less total energy). I'm living this scenario, so while I have been looking at the EV offerings recently, I haven't run out to purchase one.
Also, given that the EVs are non-point source polluters, as the energy production become cleaner in the future, the entire fleet of EVs on the road become better for the environment.
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Well, I took my Model Y Long Range to a road track class. This is the grocery getter of the line.
Basic specs are 0-60mph 4.8 seconds. 384HP and 420FtLB torque at 0 rpm. I am a torque junkie!
I had no problem keeping up the with Porches and other cars on the track with AWD.
I took a friend that builds race cars for an acceleration trial. His quote was "My Racecar will not do that".
It was fun to accelerate with full throttle from the corner leading into the straightaway that is 0.51mi long and having to slow down from 117mph as I caught up to the rest of the group that had a big head start. My friends race team was watching and all they said was I was flying out of the corner. One gear, GO!
Have fun with your car. I know I am with mine! :)
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I loved my test drive of the Y and 3, was ready to buy one until I realized how much San Diego Gas & Electric charges for electricity. We live near the coast, so we use AC and Heat maybe one week per year - so our electricity bill is always around $150. But the lowest SDGE rate of $0.52 / kWh makes a Tesla fuel cost about the same as a 30 mpg car. Had to pass on that.
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Yes, but when you consider that there is almost no maintenance on the vehicle compared to an ICE, that usually changes the situation.
Tired of spending hours and a lot of money on an ICE vehicle. Still have to maintain my wife's Honda CR-V that gets around 33mpg. At least it is down to one at this point.
Also installed a Tesla Solar Roof when ours needed replacement. No more electric or gas bills for the house and the Model Y! :thumb:
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EVs in general? Buy what you like but please don't pretend it's so much better for the environment, your choice of 2-ton personal conveyance just doesn't matter that much. EVs are the future, but right now the best EV is a bicycle. I have one, it's awesome and replaces my car for quite a lot of local trips. What we need is a shift in lifestyle, driving around 2-ton vehicles on a whim everywhere is what isn't sustainable. I look forward to a time in the future where both energy production as well as battery tech is advanced enough to actually meet the fantasies the average EV owner has about their current cars.
I agree with you that people should use their cars less, period. Personally I work from home 100% of the time, I live in a highly walkable neighborhood with most of the things I need within walking distance. I have an electric bike for the medium range stuff. I feel like this is a good approach to getting away from 'car-culture'.
I had an Acura MDX that I used for longer distance needs like taking my daughter to school or heading in to the mountains for some R&R. But that got smashed up in an accident a month ago. So I needed to buy a new car. It's either another ICE car or a BEV. After incentives, I was able to pick up the Model Y for $39.5k (long range, AWD version). Looking at ICE cars, there was NOTHING even close to the Model Y in that price range.
Also, re: charging EV's from the grid, it might be 'dirty' in some places if they use mainly coal or gas. But here in CO they've already built out a TON of new solar/wind in the past few years. So much, that they offer the option for you to select where your energy to your house comes from. Of course I picked 100% solar/wind as soon as it was available. So, in fact, I will be charging my Model Y with 100% clean energy.
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So, in fact, I will be charging my Model Y with 100% clean energy.
Clearly you don't know how much gas/oil it actually takes to produce "clean energy". EVERY single product manufactured requires gas/oil even your batteries, solar panels, wires etc. Everything. The worst part, what has been done on the recycling end of these products after 10 years. Very little. Ask yourself, how many billions of plastic bottles were buried into the earth before realizing that they could be recycled.
There's waaaayyyyy more to it then what typically meets the eye.
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Actually, plastics can be recycled about as efficiently as I can win the lottery.
Mathematically, it can make sense to purchase a ticket… when the payout exceeds the pay in… except 10,000 years would pass b4 you’re expected to win.
You can recycle… but by the oil companies own admission… all the advertising… was simply to make consumers feel better about their choice of plastic consumption. Plastics in the recycling bin end out who knows where… was China till they banned the import of garbage.
These nonsense analogies “you use fossil fuels” lead to a dead end.
We’re clever, we’ll figure out better methods… if we try.
ICE vehicles are just stupid on the face of it … the things have a RADIATOR! are you frik’n kidding me?
A device to dissipate wasted heat…. Comical … same with their brakes… used to use asbestos for brake pads… WTF! Meanwhile, EVs use regenerative braking.
Defending ICE vehicles is an exercise in Silliness…
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Clearly you don't know how much gas/oil it actually takes to produce "clean energy". EVERY single product manufactured requires gas/oil even your batteries, solar panels, wires etc. Everything. The worst part, what has been done on the recycling end of these products after 10 years. Very little. Ask yourself, how many billions of plastic bottles were buried into the earth before realizing that they could be recycled.
There's waaaayyyyy more to it then what typically meets the eye.
I do know, actually. What you are referring to is called “well to wheel” and EV’s are already less than half an ICE car. And that will only improve as more and more of the grid moves to renewables. Next up after passenger cars is to go after trucking (long and short haul) and then finally after the mining equipment itself. Once that is done, all the concerns you raise will be dealt with.
As for recycling EV batteries, at least with the modern batteries, they are getting very often 500k miles before losing enough range that they might need to be replaced. Of course at 500k miles the car itself is end of life. At this point I’ve seen 2 paths for them. Some are repurposed to become home energy storage devices, or they get recycled because 100% of the battery materials can be recycled. Check out the company Redwood Materials, they are doing this and are growing pretty rapidly.
Plus, I’m not a Luddite. I am not against mining stuff at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
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is to go after trucking (long and short haul) and then finally after the mining equipment itself. Once that is done, all the concerns you raise will be dealt with.
The tech and cost is quite far off and not practical for real life applications for transportation and mining unless you are talking about local P&D light and medium duty trucking or underground mining. For heavy haul transport and and large scale mining it has far to go and the expense is not practical as of now. Maybe 30 years will be a different story, but we may be dealing with a whole different energy source by then.
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The tech and cost is quite far off and not practical for real life applications for transportation and mining unless you are talking about local P&D light and medium duty trucking or underground mining. For heavy haul transport and and large scale mining it has far to go and the expense is not practical as of now. Maybe 30 years will be a different story, but we may be dealing with a whole different energy source by then.
Maybe the future is not so far off, after all - https://thedriven.io/2023/06/23/bhp-says-battery-electric-cheaper-than-hydrogen-as-it-dumps-diesel-for-haul-trucks/
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Maybe the future is not so far off, after all - https://thedriven.io/2023/06/23/bhp-says-battery-electric-cheaper-than-hydrogen-as-it-dumps-diesel-for-haul-trucks/
“There are still a lot of unknowns in our future concept of operations, that we need to consider. How we plan our mines, how we charge our equipment, how we manage power demand and the skills we will need as part of this transition"
This is in its conceptual stage
I know for example just to charge a small fleet of 10 EV semi trucks, you basically need your own electric substation. They would have to build a plant from solar and wind just to charge those batteries for that one mine operation. And the issue is with current technology one charge will not get a mine truck through a whole shift at the mine. So these concepts are still pretty far off. Not saying it cannot be done, but I don't think the diesel will be going away any time soon.
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Having taken an interest in the thread I happened to pay more attention to a news item last night advising that up here in Canada we have a little over 18,000 charging stations across our country which is the largest impediment to adoption citing we need some 400,000 to make Evs work across the nation. Its a big a$$ country and all but seemed a little high to me. For S&Gs I visited the Tesla Canada website and found out that good old Alberta where I reside doesn't offer any provincial rebates on EV purchases though I wasn't surprised given we are the oil and gas capital of Canada...
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“There are still a lot of unknowns in our future concept of operations, that we need to consider. How we plan our mines, how we charge our equipment, how we manage power demand and the skills we will need as part of this transition"
This is in its conceptual stage
I know for example just to charge a small fleet of 10 EV semi trucks, you basically need your own electric substation. They would have to build a plant from solar and wind just to charge those batteries for that one mine operation. And the issue is with current technology one charge will not get a mine truck through a whole shift at the mine. So these concepts are still pretty far off. Not saying it cannot be done, but I don't think the diesel will be going away any time soon.
Oh I agree, diesel will be around for a while, if for no other reason that the sheer scale of diesel in place now. Changes at large scale, take time. But man, what an exciting time to be alive!
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Oh I agree, diesel will be around for a while, if for no other reason that the sheer scale of diesel in place now. Changes at large scale, take time. But man, what an exciting time to be alive!
They have a chance to do it right, in the spirit of the OP like Nicola Tesla wanted free energy for all, or at least affordable and clean.
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In the medical field, there's a common phrase: "Do no harm." Perhaps the tech world should adopt the same slogan because much of modern technology creates more problems than it solves. The planet is getting hotter literally every day and making more EVs or diesel-powered vehicles will do little to solve this problem. The earth is fighting back due to overconsumption and mankind is losing the battle. The fact that I'm typing this message on one of several computers I own to share my thoughts to complete strangers is indicative of wasteful energy.
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The coming solid state battery tech will be a real game changer. Unfortunately, it's going to be a few years too slow down the road. For now it'll be 6-700 mile range with 15 minute charging.
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We will see Sodium Ion batteries before the Solid State batteries become the norm. Those use no rare earth materials at all. What they will talk about is sodium, sulfur and carbon in the battery container. Materials available anywhere on the planet. You can get the sulfur from smoke stack scrubbers.
CACI has them in production and BYD is using them in EV's in China.
This is the Gen I batteries, the Gen II's are supposed to be about 4x a LiIon storage capacity. Weights more but still 4/3 ratio of storage to weight.
Hopefully this will take the stress off harder to mine and refine materials.
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Tesla's already use batteries with no cobalt in the majority of their cars - https://electrek.co/2022/04/22/tesla-using-cobalt-free-lfp-batteries-in-half-new-cars-produced/
And they stopped using rare earth minerals in their electric motors completely as they now have a new state of the art hairpin motor design - https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/03/teslas-improved-new-hairpin-motors-and-catl-m3p-batteries.html
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I've been driving my new Model Y for about a week now and the ride quality is exceptional. It drives like a combo of a Jaguar (smooth) and a Porsche (sporty).
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Do you enjoy the 1 pedal driving yet or are you still getting used to no coasting? I do love how the brake pads never seem to wear out on these cars.
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I drive my MYLR in Hold mode all the time and love it! Let folks call it electric go cart mode, it works well and hardly ever use the brakes.
Handled great on the road course as well. At 4.5 months in and 7500+ miles and still a great car to drive. :)
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Do you enjoy the 1 pedal driving yet or are you still getting used to no coasting? I do love how the brake pads never seem to wear out on these cars.
1 pedal driving reminds me of when I used to drive a manual transmission (back in the 90's) and I would downshift gears to slow down the car. This is the exact same feeling.
Coming from an automatic (my last car), it took a few days to get used to the 1 pedal driving but now that I've learned it, I actually like it better than the 'coasting' style.
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My mother in law has a Tesla (not sure which model) but is selling it because she is close to getting the Tesla truck. She offered to let me have her place in line for the Tesla truck but she fell in love with it and decided to keep her place in line.
The only EV I would consider owning is the Tesla truck. I'm not a fan of EVs but the truck is nearly a tank, lol.
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I guess Teslas (probably most EVs) won't take or hold a charge with current battery technology if the temperature drops too low. Can you imagine all the Teslas stranded in airport parking lots in Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Boston, New York.....I guess you need to tow them inside to warm them and THEN charge it.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/16/tesla_owners_in_deep_freeze/
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I have a Model Y since October. Test drove a bunch of cars and trucks late summer and fall - Tesla was easily best of the bunch (including their sales process) - wasn't really close for me despite a 3-4 month process. Loving it but still in the honey moon period. I am on west coast - just in the middle of a cold snap and no doubt range is diminished, charging is slower - maybe from 4 hours to 6 hours for full charge, and the regenerative braking goes away when really cold (most I have used the brakes in 4 months of ownership). I don't do any long range driving in the winter - wouldn't be the vehicle I would choose if I had to do this.
By the way the stereo is pretty brilliant as well - streaming Tidal - loving having my music for trips I do, also best sound I have heard in a vehicle.
I have buddy on wait list for the truck - he is pumped for it. Still haven't seen one in the wild - looking forward to that.
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I guess Teslas (probably most EVs) won't take or hold a charge with current battery technology if the temperature drops too low. Can you imagine all the Teslas stranded in airport parking lots in Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Boston, New York.....I guess you need to tow them inside to warm them and THEN charge it.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/16/tesla_owners_in_deep_freeze/
Fair comments - though interesting to note that gas pumps were also failing in the recent cold snap in Alberta. Plus the 12v battery in an ICE car can also fail.
Still curious about EV's but driving ICE vehicles for now.
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I have a Model Y since October. Test drove a bunch of cars and trucks late summer and fall - Tesla was easily best of the bunch (including their sales process) - wasn't really close for me despite a 3-4 month process. Loving it but still in the honey moon period. I am on west coast - just in the middle of a cold snap and no doubt range is diminished, charging is slower - maybe from 4 hours to 6 hours for full charge, and the regenerative braking goes away when really cold (most I have used the brakes in 4 months of ownership). I don't do any long range driving in the winter - wouldn't be the vehicle I would choose if I had to do this.
By the way the stereo is pretty brilliant as well - streaming Tidal - loving having my music for trips I do, also best sound I have heard in a vehicle.
I have buddy on wait list for the truck - he is pumped for it. Still haven't seen one in the wild - looking forward to that.
Yes, Tesla hired a bunch of the engineers from Bang & Olafson to work full time on designing the stereos on the Tesla cars. The sound is pretty damn good, you are right!
Re: taking and holding a charge, it's -10 in CO right now and zero problems with my car.
After going through a few cold snaps and a few snow storms I can say the Model Y is performing brilliantly. WAY better traction control than my old AWD Acura MDX.
Also, 2 unexpected cool things re: winter. First I am super happy to not have to stop at a gas station anymore. I never realized how much filling up the gas tank sucked (in the winter) until I didn't have to do it anymore. I wake up every morning and my car is 'full'. Love it.
Unexpected cool thing #2 - I can warm up my car in my garage, from my phone, while I'm getting ready inside the house. This is awesome. With my old MDX, I'd have to drive around for several minutes waiting for the engine to warm up.
1 warning, re: Teslas in the winter/snow. Spend the $$ to get actual snow tires. The 'all weather' tires that Teslas come with SUCK in the snow. With proper winter tires, it handles better in snow than anything else I've driven, including my mom's Subaru.
These are the tires I got for the Model Y - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=VikingContact+7&partnum=545TR9VC7XL
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There is a Tesla truck close to my block. I was behind him on the way home. It looks sharp!
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Pegaso Spanish electric truck from 1952.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261115)
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It looks like a VW bus. Tesla truck update, I seen another one by Cheesecake Factory near the Highlands Village.
The Tesla Trucks are starting to pop up.
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The 2023 Model Y Long Range has the B&O designed 13 speaker with sub music system. Read that the latest standard Y rear wheel drive version will not get the sub.
Fun thing I found out is that B&O uses DSP Concepts Audio Weaver to run the audio system. Same software development system as the dspNexus 2x8 system. :)
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The 2023 Model Y Long Range has the B&O designed 13 speaker with sub music system. Read that the latest standard Y rear wheel drive version will not get the sub.
Fun thing I found out is that B&O uses DSP Concepts Audio Weaver to run the audio system. Same software development system as the dspNexus 2x8 system. :)
I knew there was a reason my car sounded so good! :P
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cVSFUmS3BY
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cVSFUmS3BY
He's absolutely right, a hybrid is not a great choice. Much better to buy a pure EV!
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Not anymore. We sold our 2020 Model S, since the mileage driven just didn't support our trips and back roads driving, ( lack of charging or working charging stations) . The wife got herself a Lexus ES350. She had a GS350 and sold that to get the Telsa, but always missed her Lexus. No real issues with the Tesla, except the screen would go dark and needed a reboot. Premature pad/rotor wear, pulsation or vibration, door handle on driver side failed to retract. Thats about it all fixed for free at dealer. Oh the tires do seem to not get the mileage Tesla claims. And these tires are rather costly due to the weight of the car, on the tires. But not bad, if you drive around town and short distances and or don't mind stopping for a while to eat more than often and charge up.
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Well, the 2023 Model Y Long Range was rear ended and totalled. Still waiting on the final check.
Found a new one at a Tesla dealership, so purchased an Ultra Red 2024 Model Y Long Range yesterday to replace the original. This one came with 5000 Supercharger miles and the tax credit now comes off the purchase price if you qualify.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=262338)