New Bryston SC4 speaker cables

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dubkarma

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New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« on: 20 Nov 2010, 02:38 am »
Can anyone offer any impressions of the new SC4 speaker cables? I recently installed a pair, replacing the previous Bryston/Vandamme cables and, more recently, a humble pair of Canare 4S11. I've also used the Supra Classic 6 (9 AWG).

So far--admittedly after only half-a-dozen hours of play--I'm flabbergasted: to my ears, my system has lost 4-6 dB of SPL. Now my mind says this is simply impossible, but on very familiar tracks, I have to goose up the volume knob on the BP-26 well beyond what I've been accustomed to. Admittedly, I've not "proved" this loss by using an SPL meter and carefully noting the position of the volume control, but I'm very familiar with this system and have never, ever before had the volume control of the preamp at the 12 o'clock position, even at parties. . .

[Associated gear: Dedicated 20 amp line from 3-phase electrical supply, isolated ground hospital-grade outlet, Torus RM15, Bryston BP-26MC, Tascam CD-01U Pro (as transport), Lavry Black DA10 (modified), Bryston BCD-1, Technics SP-10MKII/Signet XK50 arm/Ortofon Super OM40, Perreaux TU3, Mogami 3173 interconnects, Son of Ampzilla 2000 amp (100/200/400 Wrms @ 8/4/2 ohms) Tannoy System 15 DMT II speakers, no-name 12 and 10AWG AC cables.]

In befuddlement,

Joel.

vegasdave

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #1 on: 20 Nov 2010, 03:07 am »
More dynamics, I'd say.

1ZIP

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #2 on: 20 Nov 2010, 03:53 am »
Just curious:

Did the SC4 replace the 4S11 or the Bryston/Vandamme cables?  I know nothing about the latter but based upon my experiences I would have expected some change since your going from a 4 X 14AWG (Ref. Canare) to a 4 X 12AWG (Ref. Bryston.  I guess the combo cables means you had the older Bryston 9AWG going to one set of terminals and the Vandamme going to another? Or don't I understand what's going on.

Levi

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #3 on: 20 Nov 2010, 04:13 am »
You were not using Bryston amps that is why.  :lol:  :duh:  j/k

James Tanner

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #4 on: 20 Nov 2010, 12:20 pm »
Can anyone offer any impressions of the new SC4 speaker cables? I recently installed a pair, replacing the previous Bryston/Vandamme cables and, more recently, a humble pair of Canare 4S11. I've also used the Supra Classic 6 (9 AWG).

So far--admittedly after only half-a-dozen hours of play--I'm flabbergasted: to my ears, my system has lost 4-6 dB of SPL. Now my mind says this is simply impossible, but on very familiar tracks, I have to goose up the volume knob on the BP-26 well beyond what I've been accustomed to. Admittedly, I've not "proved" this loss by using an SPL meter and carefully noting the position of the volume control, but I'm very familiar with this system and have never, ever before had the volume control of the preamp at the 12 o'clock position, even at parties. . .

[Associated gear: Dedicated 20 amp line from 3-phase electrical supply, isolated ground hospital-grade outlet, Torus RM15, Bryston BP-26MC, Tascam CD-01U Pro (as transport), Lavry Black DA10 (modified), Bryston BCD-1, Technics SP-10MKII/Signet XK50 arm/Ortofon Super OM40, Perreaux TU3, Mogami 3173 interconnects, Son of Ampzilla 2000 amp (100/200/400 Wrms @ 8/4/2 ohms) Tannoy System 15 DMT II speakers, no-name 12 and 10AWG AC cables.]

In befuddlement,

Joel.

Hi Joel

Well that's one for the books for sure  :scratch: The only thing I can think of is that the overall dynamic range has improved and you are able to increase the volume. If there is less distortion in the system the tendency to turn the system up is one of the things I have noticed. Still given the cables you were already using I am surprised at the change :scratch:


James

James Tanner

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #5 on: 20 Nov 2010, 01:27 pm »
Hi Joel

Just a thought - no chance something is out of phase?

James

dubkarma

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #6 on: 20 Nov 2010, 03:22 pm »
Thanks all for your comments.

James, in answer to your question, I don't see how the cables could be out of phase as I've carefully checked that the red and black leads are all going to the same binding posts. (I'm assuming the cables were terminated correctly.)

1Zip, in answer to your question, I've used both the 4 x 14 AWG Canare (biwired) and the 9 AWG Vandamme (single-wired) with my system—hundreds of hours in each case—although immediately before switching in the SC4 I was using the Canare.

I am beginning to wonder whether my amplifier doesn't like the higher capacitance of the SC4. After a week of using the SC4, I've just switched the Canare 4S11 back into the system. The difference I really notice is that the SC4 sound, for want of a better word, "flat." Cymbols have lost some of their shimmer; bass guitar is deep and well-defined, but dull-sounding; rim-shots on snare drums have lost their startling "crack." That sort of thing. Could it be that, with the SC4, harmonics are not reproduced as faithfully because of the amplifier. . .?

I also took a look at the specs of my amp (Son of Ampzilla 2000). The manufacturer has posted graphs on its website. Interestingly, the SOA2000 is already 0.5 dB down at 20 kHz, whereas big solid state amps such as Bryston are typically pretty flat well beyond 50 kHz. This suggests that if the additional capacitance of the SC4 is having some effect, an amp like the SOA2000 would be more susceptible than a wider bandwidth amp like a Bryston.

While Canare, for example, does not give specs for inductance, it does specify impedance of 0.9 ohms per foot and capacitance of 45 ohms per foot. The SC4 is specified @ .0008 ohms/ft. and 70 pf/ft. Don't know the figures for the Vandamme cable.

If that doesn't make sense, I just have to continue to be stumped.

In any case, I'll keep switching back and forth between the cables and seeing what, if aught, I notice.

Thanks again for all your comments.

Joel.

srb

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #7 on: 20 Nov 2010, 03:54 pm »
James, in answer to your question, I don't see how the cables could be out of phase as I've carefully checked that the red and black leads are all going to the same binding posts. (I'm assuming the cables were terminated correctly.)

Perhaps you should verify this with a continuity test, just to make sure.
 
Steve

dubkarma

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #8 on: 20 Nov 2010, 06:50 pm »
Steve,

Testing the continuity of the cables is a good idea, if only to eliminate every possibility.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Joel.

dubkarma

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #9 on: 25 Nov 2010, 01:14 am »
Reporting back on the new SC4 speaker cables with which I'd been having trouble.

After testing by amplifier and cable switching, I can only conclude there's some problem with the power amp I've been using in that system.

When I switched in another amplifier, one I know well (MC2 Audio MC750), the SC4—or, rather, the system—lost that constricted, dull quality I mentioned earlier in this thread. Ditto with an upgraded McCormack DNA-1 and a B.A.T. VK-200.

Now I can go ahead and compare the SC4 (4 x 12 AWG) to the previous Vandamme (2 x 9 AWG), the Canare 4S11 (4 x 14 AWG) and the Mogami 3104 (4 x 12 AWG) and know that I'm actually comparing cables. 

Will endeavour to report back. . .

Cheers,

Joel.

1ZIP

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #10 on: 25 Nov 2010, 01:38 am »
That would be interesting feedback. :thumb:

drummermitchell

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #11 on: 25 Nov 2010, 02:34 am »
Just received mine about 3hrs ago.
Nice and simple cable(meat and potatoes)type.
Been using them the last hour,(nothing lost here)way to early,but what I hear I like.
highs are clean and crisp,bottom's there and I'm sure they'll give up more.
I'd better get back and put em to work a little bit harder,faders up :thumb:.

James Tanner

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #12 on: 25 Nov 2010, 03:09 am »




james

drummermitchell

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #13 on: 25 Nov 2010, 03:21 am »
Definately,no vol loss here(as far as the new SC4).......C-4 wtf :o :bomb:.I had to :D.
Joel,no vol loss,I do want to keep pumping it up though,that's a good thing.

Stephen L

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #14 on: 25 Nov 2010, 03:14 pm »
Hi,

   I switched from Nordost Super Flatline to the new Bryston cables and did not notice any changes. Both are shot-gunned bi-wire configurations.

Steve

James Tanner

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #15 on: 25 Nov 2010, 05:29 pm »
Bi-wire:




james

Cacophonix

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #16 on: 25 Nov 2010, 07:54 pm »

Now I can go ahead and compare the SC4 (4 x 12 AWG) to the previous Vandamme (2 x 9 AWG), the Canare 4S11 (4 x 14 AWG) and the Mogami 3104 (4 x 12 AWG) and know that I'm actually comparing cables. 

Will endeavour to report back. . .

Cheers,

Joel.

This would make for very good reading! The cables you mentioned are the ones i have in mind as well.

Stu Pitt

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #17 on: 25 Nov 2010, 09:44 pm »
Posted this in the other thread, but it would probably be more appropriate here...

I'd like to hear what you think of the SC4 vs Canare 4S11.  I bought them a while back due to needing about 25 feet per side.  They sounded pretty good, no complaints at all.  After moving, I shortened them to 8 feet per side.  It was like a big veil was lifted.  It wasn't the new room, as I set everything up in the new room and listened to the system for about 3 months before I shortened them.  I meant to shorten them since day one, but never got around to it.

I've always run the 4S11 as single wire, not bi-wire.  Bi-wiring my old speakers (PSB Image T55) didn't sound as good as single wiring and using a short run of the 4S11 as a jumper.  My current speakers aren't bi-wirable (Audio Physic Yara Evolution bookshelf).

1ZIP

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Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #18 on: 25 Nov 2010, 10:27 pm »
I had a similar experience with the 4S11.  I tried bi-wiring the Paradigms in my second system with the Canare and the configuration did not sound good, especially in the mid range.  I undid the bi-wiring and the problems disappeared.  I assumed that it was of function going from 4 x 14 to 2 x 11?  I'm still using the 4S11 in the 2 x 11 mode but I'm seriously thinking of the SC4 as a replacement and going to bi-wiring again.  I have to admit I'm impressed with the little Studio 20's V4!

Stu Pitt

Re: New Bryston SC4 speaker cables
« Reply #19 on: 25 Nov 2010, 11:23 pm »
The Studio 20s are great speakers IMO.  Especially with good and clean power like Bryston.