Bryston's new speaker cable

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dubkarma

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Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #40 on: 20 Nov 2010, 03:28 pm »
drummermitchell,

Thanks! Look forward to learning of your impressions.

Joel.

Levi

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #41 on: 21 Nov 2010, 02:36 am »
Subscribed!

Napalm

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #42 on: 21 Nov 2010, 06:06 am »
I posted in a new thread and should have looked more carefully at the existing topics, because my query belongs in this thread. Sorry for duplication.

I've had the SC4 speaker cable in my bedroom/office system for a week now and cannot shake the feeling that, compared to the previous Bryston Vandamme cables, I've lost 4-6 dB in system SPL. Now this seems physically impossible to me, but am convinced that I have to advance the volume knob on the BP-26 way beyond what I used to for the same volume.

Am I just hallucinating or could there be some electro-physical basis for this impression?

Appreciate any thoughts others may have--even if it's to assure me that I am indeed deluded.

Cheers,

Joel.

Gauge. Larger is better. There's quite some difference between 9 and 12 gauge, especially with speakers with dips in impedance.

As for inductance/capacitance, transmission line theory and so on. Someone should fire up PSPICE and do a simulation. Otherwise we're threading water.

Nap.

Napalm

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #43 on: 21 Nov 2010, 06:08 am »
BTW James, will the old Van Damme cable continue to be available?

Nap.  :scratch:

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #44 on: 21 Nov 2010, 11:28 am »
BTW James, will the old Van Damme cable continue to be available?

Nap.  :scratch:

Hi Nap

From Van Damme only :D

James

jneutron

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Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #45 on: 22 Nov 2010, 02:14 pm »
As for inductance/capacitance, transmission line theory and so on. Someone should fire up PSPICE and do a simulation. Otherwise we're threading water.
Nap.
"Threading water"..nice touch..

In simulating via pspice, be very careful how you attach the nodes to "measure".  There are quite a few hidden "bumps" which can compromise the simulation, especially with t-lines, step functions, and analytical approximations.  And it is very important to verify that the instantaneous voltages at both the source and load node are reasonable and correct for varying parameters, as well as making sure the currents sum to zero at both locations.

The model must be well behaved, or it's trash.  Ask me about how well a biwire model runs.

Been there, done that.

Cheers, John

Levi

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #46 on: 22 Nov 2010, 02:28 pm »
Hi John,

Not to open a can of worms, perhaps in a few short words, what do you think makes a good speaker cable?

 

klao

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #47 on: 24 Nov 2010, 06:41 pm »
James,

How to best connect the "shot gun" or bi-wiring two sets of single-run speaker cables to the back of the Bryston amps that do not have double speaker binding posts as in the 28B's?  One set with spades and another with bananas, or both sets with spades?

Thanks,
Klao

Napalm

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #48 on: 24 Nov 2010, 06:49 pm »
Great pricing:

http://www.weldingcable.net/

You can't beat some 1 gauge. (yes 1 not 10).

Nap.  :thumb:

Stephen L

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #49 on: 24 Nov 2010, 06:54 pm »
Hi,

   One pair of cables is all you need, you can have them shot-gunned. Two spades or bananas for the amp end, and four spades or bananas for the speaker end. I have spades at the amp and bananas at the speakers.

Steve

Quote
How to best connect the "shot gun" or bi-wiring two sets of single-run speaker cables to the back of the Bryston amps that do not have double speaker binding posts as in the 28B's?  One set with spades and another with bananas, or both sets with spades?

klao

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #50 on: 24 Nov 2010, 08:07 pm »
Hi Steve,

Thanks.  I'm thinking just in case I might change from the non-biwirable speakers (1st set of cables) to bi-wirable speakers later (thus 2nd set of cables to be added).  :)

Klao

BrysTony

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #51 on: 24 Nov 2010, 08:41 pm »
Hi Steve,

Thanks.  I'm thinking just in case I might change from the non-biwirable speakers (1st set of cables) to bi-wirable speakers later (thus 2nd set of cables to be added).  :)

Klao

One solution is to use a stackable connector at the amp end such as http://www.wbtusa.com/pages/0645m.html  You just plug a banana connector into it for bi-wiring.
Tony

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #52 on: 24 Nov 2010, 08:49 pm »
Other option:




james

klao

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #53 on: 24 Nov 2010, 08:51 pm »
Tony & James, thanks a lot.  :thumb:

dubkarma

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Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #54 on: 25 Nov 2010, 01:05 am »
Reporting back on the new SC4 speaker cables with which I'd been having trouble.

After a certain amount of amplifier and cable switching, I can only conclude there's some problem with the power amp I've been using in that system.

When I switched in another amplifier, one I know well (MC2 Audio MC750), the SC4—or, rather, the system—lost that constricted, dull quality I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Now I can go ahead and actually compare the SC4 (4 x 12 AWG) to the previous Vandamme (2 x 9 AWG), the Canare 4S11 (4 x 14 AWG) and the Mogami 3104 (4 x 12 AWG).   

Will endeavour to report back. . .

Cheers,

Joel.

Stu Pitt

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #55 on: 25 Nov 2010, 03:25 am »
I'd like to hear what you think of the SC4 vs Canare 4S11.  I bought them a while back due to needing about 25 feet per side.  They sounded pretty good, no complaints at all.  After moving, I shortened them to 8 feet per side.  It was like a big veil was lifted.  It wasn't the new room, as I set everything up in the new room and listened to the system for about 3 months before I shortened them.  I meant to shorten them since day one, but never got around to it. 

budt

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Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #56 on: 26 Nov 2010, 06:07 pm »
   jneutron
      I copied a post I made from another thread which is:
To my ears the difference in cables is so small that it may only exist in my head.Then again maybe my hearing simply isn't good enough.
  This is one thing I do know from experience; what you have plugged into  in certain circuits can have a dramatic effect( it can be like changing speakers the effect can be that great). ie. play around with source/preamp/amp being on the same circuits,different circuits,2 on one ,each on their own etc...It is astonishing that such differences can exist. I would have never believed it if I hadn't discovered it quite by accident one time.
   I had changed something in my system and so I unplugged the preamp and source to make this change.When I was finished trying it I reconnected the system as before but the sound suddenly was very closed in. I checked,double checked,triple checked and couldn't understand what in the world had happened.Then it occurred to me that the only difference was that I had reversed the plug ins for the source and preamp. I changed them back and instantly the sound was back.It simply never occurred to me that a difference could possibly exist. This was the case in my previous house as well as my present house( perhaps bad power in both areas). In any event it doesn't cost anything to try it.
  I know it must sound completely crazy( but I am not a "tweek" kind of guy whatsoever).Most of my wire are BLUEJEANS with the exception of my speaker wire which is BRYSTON. I don't have cones,spikes or silk clothes under anything as I simply never heard a difference but the circuit thing was dramatic.....

   I know there must be a scientific explanation for this. What do you think is going on here?

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #57 on: 26 Nov 2010, 07:41 pm »


The length and resistance of the loud-speaker cable in your audio/video system is very important. In fact, any speaker cable is a compromise and the shorter you make your speaker cable the more accurate the sonic result.

Keeping speaker cables as short as possible is essential for maintaining good (damping) control over the loudspeaker drivers. Music is a dynamic 'transient' (stopping and starting) condition and the better the amplifier can control the motion of the drivers in your loudspeakers the better the performance. The normally extremely low output impedance of the power amplifier will be compromised by any addition of 'series resistance' associated with speaker cables. Therefore, no cables (as in powered speakers) are best followed by keeping the speaker cables as short as possible.

Most loudspeakers have impedance curves which will vary all over the map with frequency but this does not mean that adding a small series resistance due to loudspeaker cable is unimportant. In fact, if you add some small resistance between the amplifier and the speaker, you will create an interesting result. The loudspeaker's frequency response will start to vary directly as its own impedance! The magnitude of this effect increases directly with the magnitude of the series resistance added. So what you can end up with is a frequency response from your speaker which is a direct mirror of the impedance curve of your loudspeaker. This undesirable effect can be minimized with short, low resistance cables and low output impedance amplifiers. The output impedance of any decent modern solid state power amp will be practically zero ohms (Bryston amplifiers are typically .01 ohms). To optimize the damping factor (ratio of speaker impedance over amplifier output impedance plus speaker cable impedance), any resistance between the speaker and the amp is undesirable.

If we had a perfect amp with an output impedance of zero ohms and a perfect speaker cable with a series resistance of zero ohms then the damping factor would be infinite.

Note: In this case the damping factor would be infinite regardless of speaker impedance (something, even if it changes, divided by nothing is always infinity).

At the other extreme, power loss in your speaker cable contributes to audible dynamic compression because: Cable Power loss = Current SQUARED X Resistance of speaker cables. On dynamic peaks, output current can be in the 'tens of amperes'. That squared, times what might seem an insignificant amount of cable resistance can cause significant power loss.





This may explain to some degree why some people hear substantial quality increases in their systems when they bi-wire or tri-wire while others claim little or no improvement. In some cases the extra set of speaker wires would significantly reduce the resistance (and improve the damping factor) between the amplifier and the loudspeakers, especially in long runs. With the advent of multi-channel audio systems utilizing rear/back channels usually positioned 20 to 30 or more feet away from the amplifiers this lack of control becomes a serious issue. The Bryston PowerPac Series of amplifiers are an attempt to minimize this problem by allowing the amplifier to be placed adjacent to each loudspeaker or attached directly to it using long interconnects (preferably balanced). By the way, the reason that cable length is relatively unimportant for component (Preamp to Amp) interconnects is that the magnitude of signal current in the conductors of interconnect cables is so small the power loss is insignificant.

You must always try to preserve the dynamic integrity of the recording so reducing the resistance of your loudspeaker cable is one giant step it the right direction.


james

Robert D

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #58 on: 26 Nov 2010, 09:08 pm »

Damping Factor with Calculator


http://www.bcae1.com/dampfact.htm


Robert   It works !

Levi

Re: Bryston's new speaker cable
« Reply #59 on: 26 Nov 2010, 10:26 pm »
My monos are so close to my speakers, I can get away with 2ft of that nice juicy cables.  I ordered 4ft speaker cables for aesthetic reasons. LOL!  :lol: