[Cheeseboy]

I'm a little confused about the application and differences in these units. 

I currently use an oldee but goodie cd player I'm concerned about it's output level.  I run a direct analog feed from my cable box to my integrated amp today and a direct analog feed from my DVD player today.  I will continue in 2.1 and most likely won't upgrade to HT.  Most of my listening is music.  Eventually I will have to move into computer audio as well.  I just run movies and live broadcast tv in 2.1. 

My ship is about to arrive for upgrading and I am confused. 

I have heard that I will still need to buy a PreAmp as the linestage products will not bump the DVD and Cablebox signals to an aceptable level to be used with a linestage.  True/Not True?

If I want to knock the house down and listen to very dynamic music like drum and percussion at high volume levels the Linestage just won't get there.  True/Not True

Any help on this subject would be appreciated. 

Steve

[Big Red Machine]

A linestage is a preamp with gain.  Typically this can mean w/o phono circuits, but not always.

Passive preamps will pass a signal, typically with no gain added, but not always.

A tube buffer is basically a passive pre that allows you to introduce a tube sound to the signal and can be used in line with a solid state preamp either before or after that preamp.  So if you are attached to a certain solid state device that gives gain but want to try adding tubes, a tube buffer allows you to experiment.

Now what was your dilemma?

[Cheeseboy]

Why thank you.  I was confused about the term linstage.  Linestage and Preamp are the same.  I really appreciate you clearing that up.  Either of these would work for all inputs.

I was looking at the Dodd Tube Buffer.  It has a remote volume control.  Can I use it as my only preamp device?  It has a remote volume control option.  It appears as though people are using this as a passive pre.  It might work for my CD player but little else.  That is my question.  Ah ha at last a question.

Can I use a Passive Pre like the Dodd Tube Buffer with an analog out on my TV cable box output and an analog DVD output?

If I use a Passive Pre like the Dodd Tube Buffer can I get the dynamic range and loudness on things like Drums and percussive recordings at high volume levels? 

Thanks

[Elizabeth]

A preamp used to be a device with a phono section and various tone controls.
Then the 'high end' got all 'uppety' and dropped the tone controls. Then with the advent of CD.. most preamps dropped the phono portion of the device. At THAT point preamps ARE 'linestages'. One and the same thing with two words.
One would NOT call a device with a phono section a 'linestage', but a preamp can have a phono section included or not and still be called a preamp (due to tradition.)
Preamps may or may not have gain. The ones that do not have gain are called 'passive preamps' and the ones with gain are just called 'preamp or linestage'
Then a 'tube buffer' is just a simple device that may or may not have gain.
It can be inserted between nearly any two devices. The usual place is between the preamp and amp, or between the CD/DAC and the preamp.
I believe a tube buffer was originally a device used for impedance matching, but now it is used to add tubelike warmth, or remove grunge.
It is primarily to add a trace of warmth to a non-tubed system, or to ameliorate the digital high frequency grung. Some CD players actually incorporate a tube buffer like device inside the CD player. Thus "tubed CD player".
I actually use a 'tube buffer' between my DAC and Preamp. It is a little better than most tube buffers, being a $4000. VAC Standard preamp I use as a 'tube buffer'. (I did buy it used, $1,500.) So at this point i am very happy with my CD sound via DAC then VAC!
One last 'hidden' issue is the difference between all 'old' components output (stuff like audiocassette, FM tuner, Phono stages,) vs CD. The CD (and DVD) output is MUCH higher at 2 volts, and most of the older stuff is 0.5 volts or less. So with nearly any preamp, one will experience a vast difference in the volume control level between the 'analogue sources' and 'digital' sources. This is normal.
To your last question: a passive device may or may not have enough 'power' to properly drive an amplifier. Depends on the product, and what you expect from it. A passive usually will remove a layer of 'grunge', but has (usually) less dynamic capability: and that depends on the devices driving the passive preamp! Like my Audio Reseach Phono prepre (PH-2)states in the owners manual that is is NOT suitable for use with a passive preamp.
So you would need to find out from the buffer's manufacturer and perhaps from users if that particular device is great for use instead of a preamp, or if it is not good, or merely adequate.

[wilsynet]

Active preamp, passive preamp, buffer only, those distinctions are mostly useful with system context in mind.

I'd start with what equipment you have today and what kind of dollars you're looking to spend.

[mjosef]

A preamp used to be a device with a phono section and various tone controls.

Yeah, I remember those days...things were much simpler then.
I have always wondered if a "passive preamp" can even be classified as a preamp...since there is no amplification of the signal going on, merely attenuation. But these are different times, usage of words may no longer reflect the reality of its meaning.

[Cheeseboy]

Active preamp, passive preamp, buffer only, those distinctions are mostly useful with system context in mind.

I'd start with what equipment you have today and what kind of dollars you're looking to spend.

That is exactly why I am asking the question.  System Context.

Based on everything I have heard here It sounds like I need a linestage or Pramp to accomodate my system now and in the future.  Thanks all..

[JLM]

Great explanation Elizabeth!   

Other than phono stages, very sources these days need gain.  More often the extra gain they provide causes more problems than they solve (volume controls end up with little useful range and it's too easy to drive speakers into clipping).  In fact several well respected integrated amps use only a passive design for a "pre-amp" section.  This eliminates interconnect impedance issues that are common with passive pre-amps.


Steve/Cheeseboy,

You'll probably need a pre-amp of some sort (or integrated amp), just for the convenience of having everything (cable box, DVD, CD, etc.) pluged in and being able to easily switch between. 

We'd be glad to help you spend money.    

[jeffreybehr]

Cheeseboy, if you have an integrated amp that you're happy with, you don't need anything else in the amplification chain.  You could upgrade to a better integrated amp and still not need anything else.  Only if you intend to move to a separate preamp and poweramp do you need to concern yourself with thee distinctions we're discussing.

To state what's been discussed a little differently, 'preamps' can be phono only or line-level only.  The former is almost always called a phono preamp, while the latter is almost always called a linestage or linestage preamp.  (The term 'line' comes from the term 'line-level', which describes Voltages ranging from hundredths of a Volt to [in audio systems] high-single-digit levels.)

Phono preamps accept the output of magnetic phono cartridges (which can be as low as in the tenths of milliVolts), apply RIAA (or some other version of) equalization, and raise the level to line-level.

I agree with mjoseph that a passive 'preamp' may not qualify to be called a linestage preamp or preamp, since it amplifies nothing (hence no 'amp'), but most of us do use that term.

So when you're ready to move to amplification separates, worry about these things.  Until then, enjoy the music.

A question for you--since you apparently don't have a video processor in the system, how do you get a '.1' channel?  Or do you mean that you're simply using a single-channel subwoofer?

[Cheeseboy]

Jeff,

I do plan on upgrading the whole sytem.  I feel like I want to have the musicallity of tubes with the simplicity of Solid State amplification.  I have been using an integrated that has served me very well for many years. 

The .1 would be the addition of a single subwoofer. 

[Cheeseboy]

Thanks Elizabeth. 

She said VAC.  I would love to own some VAC gear. 

Steve