A call to my customers in the SF Bay area.

Danny Richie · « **on:** 23 Jul 2010, 01:40 am »

I need some volunteers with a good system willing to do some A/B comparisons of speakers.

I have DanTheMan over there that is skeptical about the audible effects of higher quality ("fancy") components. So we need to help him see the light. If there is a good group in that area that would like to participate then that would be great too.

We have a cheap little speaker that might be well engineered. It cost next to nothing. HAL has volunteered to send a pair to me and I'd be willing to upgrade them with some good parts and send them up there to be compared to Dan's stock pair to see what the differences might be.

If there is no one willing in the Bay area then we might have to find a good group in another area that would like to give them a listen and report back the findings.

Anybody up for it?

Oh, and here is the thread that started all of this: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83233.0

Hugh · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 02:46 am »

Danny,

If nothing pans out in SF then you can count on me in LA (RC to be exact).

dvenardos · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 04:50 pm »

If Hugh hosts I would attend. Sorry Hugh, you weren't exactly offering to host now were you?

Hugh · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 04:57 pm »

For Danny, why not!

Quote from: dvenardos on 23 Jul 2010, 04:50 pm

If Hugh hosts I would attend. Sorry Hugh, you weren't exactly offering to host now were you?

art · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 06:01 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 23 Jul 2010, 01:40 am

I have DanTheMan over there that is skeptical about the audible effects of higher quality ("fancy") components. So we need to help him see the light.

Why do I get the impression that won't make much of an impression, on him. Everyone who picks up a soldering iron, and now a "DIY FFT", is an expert on speaker design and measurement. Yeah, right..............

Good luck, ol' buddy. You are going to need it with this dude.

Pat

K Shep · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 06:09 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 23 Jul 2010, 01:40 am

I need some volunteers with a good system willing to do some A/B comparisons of speakers

We have a group here K Shep, Stew, vintage bob, low.pfle, ttasaki and writeface. I'd be willing to tour the speakers around the Bay Area to the above members and report back our findings. Sounds fun!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 06:33 pm »

Quote

We have a group here K Shep, Stew, vintage bob, low.pfle, ttasaki and writeface. I'd be willing to tour the speakers around the Bay Area to the above members and report back our findings. Sounds fun!

Now that's what I was looking for.

Thanks K Shep.

Now let's see what we can put together.

I should have the stock speakers here next week. I'll measure and test them to see where they are and what they need, then go from there.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 07:40 pm »

Pat, grow up.

Edit: I'll add to this, anyone who can't have a technical discussion about the matters at hand, just stay out of it unless you have questions and a desire to learn. That's adult behavior. Danny apparently felt he needed your help, but in truth he doesn't. He just needs a more defendable position or real defense for his position. He's an intelligent guy, there's no reason for him not to have this.

Anyone in the Bay Area wants to talk shit on me I'd prefer you did it to my face.

Dan

HAL · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 07:47 pm »

Now that should be a fun speaker listening session to attend!

jtwrace · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 07:48 pm »

OPEN MIND. I know it may hard to do but that's what it will take for everyone.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 08:12 pm »

Wooo, wooo, wooo there Dan. Let's not get carried away here.

Some of us have already been through this stuff from a technical end and from a subjective evaluation stand point. You haven't. You are being offered an opportunity to participate in learning for yourself what can and can not be heard. I can even set it up in your own home town so you don't even have to buy a ticket to anywhere.

I figured when I checked my UPS log and saw 20 shipments to customers in SF (not counting the surrounding areas) that I could find you someone willing to open up their home to you and others for some fun listening.

We are not making this stuff up man. If you can hear the difference between an 8 track player, verses a cassette player, verses a CD player than you can hear the differences in various caps and wire in most cases. Some of the differences are that great. Some caps differences (or wire) are very subtle. It just depends on what they are and how they are made.

Having seen the cheap parts in that speaker now, I bet that if I upgrade them to some good parts then the difference will be very apparent. And not just different to be different. I am talking cleaner, clearer, better detail levels, better imaging, etc.

Wouldn't you like to see for yourself?

It sure beats reading about some guys opinion and having to go with that.

And BTW, there is solid technical and measurable data to back this stuff up. Someone sent me this one this morning:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2008/05/27/aes08-if-the-cap-fits-it-must-sound-better/

I had seen it a long time ago, but it was a nice reminder.

HT cOz · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 08:21 pm »

Danny,

It would be interesting to see their network with better parts and a new Danny network with your regular parts. Knowing you it will be too hard to just replace their network with better parts, as I am sure you will be able to do better. Ok thats faith but thats ok in this circle...

sts9fan · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 08:23 pm »

So we are clear. You are only "upgrading" the parts not changing values correct? Nasty iron core to air etc. Otherwise the test is moot.

dvenardos · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 08:24 pm »

When I want to evaluate a speaker I just spend time living with them. I clearly enjoy listening to music more with some speakers than others. I then switch back and live with the other ones for awhile. The differences are apparent. I can't graph why I like one speaker better than another anymore than I can graph which woman I find more attractive, but I can tell you there is a difference. Danny designs great sounding speakers and for that reason I am willing to listen to his opinion. It doesn't mean that I automatically buy everything he says, but it does make me at least respect what he has to say as someone who does this for a living.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 08:49 pm »

Quote

So we are clear. You are only "upgrading" the parts not changing values correct? Nasty iron core to air etc. Otherwise the test is moot.

Sure.

You never what to throw in more than one variable at a time or you don't know how much value to give each one.

Here are some other links that another industry member here just sent me.

http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_1.pdf

http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_2.pdf

http://waltjung.org/PDFs/A_RealTime_Signal_Test_For_Capacitor_Quality.pdf

HAL · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 08:55 pm »

The Walt Jung series was published in Audio Magazine in 1980. That is the best reference standard I have ever seen for picking caps for audio circuits.

sts9fan · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 08:57 pm »

Great article.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 09:43 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 23 Jul 2010, 08:12 pm

Wooo, wooo, wooo there Dan. Let's not get carried away here.

Some of us have already been through this stuff from a technical end and from a subjective evaluation stand point. You haven't. You are being offered an opportunity to participate in learning for yourself what can and can not be heard. I can even set it up in your own home town so you don't even have to buy a ticket to anywhere. (((SNIP))))

I have been through this. I've done many experiments on my own. Please stop making assumptions about what I've done. I've been through this for many years--more than half of my life. I'll read the article. Thanks for presenting something.

Dan

Danny Richie · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 09:54 pm »

Quote

I have been through this. I've done many experiments on my own. Please stop making assumptions about what I've done. I've been through this for many years--more than half of my life. I'll read the article. Thanks for presenting something.

So are you saying that you don't want to participate in a free comparative listening get together?

Just out of curiosity Dan,

Can you share with us what your current system consists of?

pjchappy · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jul 2010, 09:58 pm »

Let's cool it on the not so subtle personal jabs, folks.

Paul