Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!

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tnargs

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #480 on: 9 Dec 2012, 08:05 am »
I have just come across this thread, and I am trying to understand why one would not just use the optical output from one's Oppo? What is the difference between doing that and de-embedding the HDMI to 2 channel optical using the Altona?

ted_b

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #481 on: 9 Dec 2012, 02:11 pm »
I have just come across this thread, and I am trying to understand why one would not just use the optical output from one's Oppo? What is the difference between doing that and de-embedding the HDMI to 2 channel optical using the Altona?

If you'll read my initial post you'll see/know that SACD hirez resolution only appears at two places in a player, at the analog outs (after being converted by the player's internal DAC) or at the HDMI out (most players let you choose DSD or convert to PCM at that point; the de-embedders need PCM).  Optical/toslink and coax digital outs are forbidden to send SACD hirez.  The output from those, during SACD playback, would be redbook (16/44.1) if the disc has it.  Also, when it comes to BluRay, some BluRay audio discs have 24/192 stereo layers, and that layer is also prohibited to anything but HDMI. 

Since I started this thread, and specifically called it an inexpensive solution (jitter is pretty high on HDMI and its not the best long term) I discovered, help support, and have documented via another thread (and a pdf guide), the ability to rip DSD off of SACD's (and there is also the ability rip 24/192 from BluRay).   Still, this de-embedder solution is pretty cool, pretty cheap, and sounds pretty good.

tnargs

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #482 on: 9 Dec 2012, 08:30 pm »
Thanks Ted, I see what you are saying now. I didn't realize the digital out from the Oppo was restricted that way.

I still feel cheated when I have a multichannel audio disc and have to dumb it down either (1) to 2 channel or (2) through a HDMI receiver's audio.

Do you know of a hardware solution for multichannel?

Or is it possible via ripping as documented in your other thread? (What is its title?)

smileallways

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #483 on: 12 Dec 2012, 03:21 am »
Hi Rez Gurus,
     I want to find out if I can use the Sony BDPS-590  universal player to play SACDs and do the HDMI de-embedding to get the digital audio out. Will the digital output be 24 bit by 96K format? .  This can play all disc formats except for DVD-A format. How does the quality compare to the Oppo players.  I appreciate any information on this

.

intermediatic

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #484 on: 7 Mar 2013, 03:47 am »
I've had my Monoprice switch for a while and have been plagued by it losing signal from time to time. At that point, you'd have to pull the plug on it to get a picture.

Well I got my Geffen HDMI Detective today in hopes of solving that problem. I had some trouble with my AppleTV and Mac Mini. The picture seemed overly pink. So I set pin 3 to on to simulate an EDID (I also had pin 4, HDCP on) and that works fine.

I tossed the Blu Ray Wish You Were here on my Oppo BDP-95. It worked as always. I turned the TV OFF. Hosanna! The unit is still playing, even managed to repeat tracks.

So there's your answer. It just plain works with the Detective, you just have to set it right.


Boldlygo

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #485 on: 27 Mar 2013, 09:58 pm »
I'm the OP.  :)  And yes, most any of these ($50 Monoprice, etc) will work with the Oppo 103 to de-embed HDMi to 88k PCM (still debatable whether Oppo strips off bits to 16 or leaves them at 24) as long as you set the Oppo's SACD menu setting to PCM.  Frankly, ripping them to DSD (PS3 thread of mine) and then using Audiogate to convert to PCM is a longer-term better approach cuz then you have the DSD files for later use on the BDA-2 when it goes DSD-capable...and short-term you have the ability to convert above 88k (i.e 24/176k) and knowing it is full 24 bit.  More work, though.  :)

Hi Ted. First time poster here. I found this thread because I recently purchased a Bryston SP3 for my system and have been following some of their threads on AudioCircle.
Here's my system: I have an OPPO BDP-103 player, a Bryston SP3 pre/pro, a Lexicon LX-7 amp, a Toshiba HD-XA2 HD player and a custom-built computer with Toslink and COAX outs (I run my own computer business). The music server is running Win7 Pro with a small SSD drive for the OS and 2 x 2TB mirrored drives for my library. I run iTunes and have ripped my entire library using AIFF.
My library includes a lot of SACD and multi-ch SACDs as well as disks in DXD, xrcd, xrcd24, HDCD, UDC, LPCD45, etc. I also have many DVD-As and a few titles from AIX records.

For cables I use:
Computer --> SP3 :      Morrow Audio DIG4 coax 1m
SP3 --> LX7 :               Cardas Golden Presence balanced .5m
LX7 --> Elac FS:248s :  Chord Carnival bi-wired 4.5m

I have tested many ways of listening to the better CDs in my collection and have concluded that the best sound was through my computer using iTunes using a Morrow Audio DIG4 coax cable to my Bryston SP3. I have tried USB and Toslink, but the coax seems best. I also tried the CDs directly from the OPPO; a Mac Mini using USB; and other high-end CD players such as a Cambridge Audio Azur 840C, but the computer has always sounded the best.

Now I read this thread (well, not ALL of it) and am left to wonder if I should try the MonoPrice piece to see if the sacd's will sound better than the computer (and what about all my other formats?). I'd love to get your feelings on this, and being in Canada, where would I buy the MonoPrice - from their website?

Thanks.

Phil A

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #486 on: 27 Mar 2013, 11:06 pm »
Hi Rez Gurus,
     I want to find out if I can use the Sony BDPS-590  universal player to play SACDs and do the HDMI de-embedding to get the digital audio out. Will the digital output be 24 bit by 96K format? .  This can play all disc formats except for DVD-A format. How does the quality compare to the Oppo players.  I appreciate any information on this

.

I have used a BDP-BX37, which is the same as the old Sony 370 and it required a handshake (to the pre/pro but worked) and was able to pass 176.4kHz from SACD, however, John Gatski of everythingaudio.net has tested non-Oppo players (included the Sonys and I ran over to his place with an Integra that also did 176.4kHz) and they truncate the word length to 16 bits.  I believe in his next issue an overview of HDMI audio de-embedders may be coming.

Phil A

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #487 on: 27 Mar 2013, 11:07 pm »
Hi Ted. First time poster here. I found this thread because I recently purchased a Bryston SP3 for my system and have been following some of their threads on AudioCircle.
Here's my system: I have an OPPO BDP-103 player, a Bryston SP3 pre/pro, a Lexicon LX-7 amp, a Toshiba HD-XA2 HD player and a custom-built computer with Toslink and COAX outs (I run my own computer business). The music server is running Win7 Pro with a small SSD drive for the OS and 2 x 2TB mirrored drives for my library. I run iTunes and have ripped my entire library using AIFF.
My library includes a lot of SACD and multi-ch SACDs as well as disks in DXD, xrcd, xrcd24, HDCD, UDC, LPCD45, etc. I also have many DVD-As and a few titles from AIX records.

For cables I use:
Computer --> SP3 :      Morrow Audio DIG4 coax 1m
SP3 --> LX7 :               Cardas Golden Presence balanced .5m
LX7 --> Elac FS:248s :  Chord Carnival bi-wired 4.5m

I have tested many ways of listening to the better CDs in my collection and have concluded that the best sound was through my computer using iTunes using a Morrow Audio DIG4 coax cable to my Bryston SP3. I have tried USB and Toslink, but the coax seems best. I also tried the CDs directly from the OPPO; a Mac Mini using USB; and other high-end CD players such as a Cambridge Audio Azur 840C, but the computer has always sounded the best.

Now I read this thread (well, not ALL of it) and am left to wonder if I should try the MonoPrice piece to see if the sacd's will sound better than the computer (and what about all my other formats?). I'd love to get your feelings on this, and being in Canada, where would I buy the MonoPrice - from their website?

Thanks.

I assume you have seen this thread?  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115419.msg1206388#new

Phil A

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #488 on: 27 Mar 2013, 11:08 pm »
Thanks Ted, I see what you are saying now. I didn't realize the digital out from the Oppo was restricted that way.

I still feel cheated when I have a multichannel audio disc and have to dumb it down either (1) to 2 channel or (2) through a HDMI receiver's audio.

Do you know of a hardware solution for multichannel?

Or is it possible via ripping as documented in your other thread? (What is its title?)

Note this thread as well - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115419.msg1206388#new

Boldlygo

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #489 on: 28 Mar 2013, 01:11 am »
Note this thread as well - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115419.msg1206388#new
No. So much to read - this is the first thread I've read on this topic. What exactly are you trying to point out to me? The new feature for the OPPO? If so, thanks - I'll read up on it. (I won't get to hear my system if I do all this reading! Yikes)

Boldlygo

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #490 on: 28 Mar 2013, 01:29 am »
Note this thread as well - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115419.msg1206388#new
So this new feature for my OPPO sounds interesting, but I'm not there yet. I've never heard DSD or DSF files. I'm still trying to figure out, like I said in my first post, how to use a device like the MonoPrice and will it sound better than what I'm currently listening to through my computer system with my SACDs?

Phil A

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #491 on: 28 Mar 2013, 01:54 am »
So this new feature for my OPPO sounds interesting, but I'm not there yet. I've never heard DSD or DSF files. I'm still trying to figure out, like I said in my first post, how to use a device like the MonoPrice and will it sound better than what I'm currently listening to through my computer system with my SACDs?

I've only had my current DAC (Meitner MA-1) a short time.  I do have the Monoprice de-embedder hooked to it via an Oppo BDP-83 doing 24/88.2kHz via PCM the same as I had with my old DAC (Bryston BDA-1).  I am really new to DSF and DFF files.  Sounds better than the de-embedder.  I've also heard my system with an earlier version of my music server (I have a HAL MS-2) playing DFF files at 176.4kHz the same as you can from a computer (if you have ISO, DFF, DSF files) with my old DAC and I did think it sounded better than the de-embedder.  I've had the de-embedder (in fact have a second one that I was using for a bit in a secondary basement system - have the Port-ta unit and they make the Monoprice unit.  I've had the de-embedders for some time.  How are you currently playing SACDs on the computer (if you are and if not you can get the files ripped from the discs)?

Boldlygo

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #492 on: 28 Mar 2013, 01:32 pm »
I've only had my current DAC (Meitner MA-1) a short time.  I do have the Monoprice de-embedder hooked to it via an Oppo BDP-83 doing 24/88.2kHz via PCM the same as I had with my old DAC (Bryston BDA-1).  I am really new to DSF and DFF files.  Sounds better than the de-embedder.  I've also heard my system with an earlier version of my music server (I have a HAL MS-2) playing DFF files at 176.4kHz the same as you can from a computer (if you have ISO, DFF, DSF files) with my old DAC and I did think it sounded better than the de-embedder.  I've had the de-embedder (in fact have a second one that I was using for a bit in a secondary basement system - have the Port-ta unit and they make the Monoprice unit.  I've had the de-embedders for some time.  How are you currently playing SACDs on the computer (if you are and if not you can get the files ripped from the discs)?
I didn't do anything special with all my high-end CDs - I just ripped them like every other CD into iTunes using AIFF format. The better the CD, the better sound I've heard in iTunes.

Phil A

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #493 on: 28 Mar 2013, 01:52 pm »
Well, if you are just listening to a CD layer of an SACD, I would think getting 24/88.2 from the Oppo and de-embedder is going to be an improvement.  When I was using the de-embedders (with being able to decode DSD in the DAC I may eventually stick them in some spare system if I get a non-DSD DAC), I also used an upgraded power supply.  For the Monoprice unit, anything that will work with the Squeezebox Touch will work.  It's not a night and day different but it helps a bit.  If you get the hi-rez files ripped, then you can hear higher resolution PCM from the computer.

Boldlygo

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #494 on: 28 Mar 2013, 05:06 pm »
Well, if you are just listening to a CD layer of an SACD, I would think getting 24/88.2 from the Oppo and de-embedder is going to be an improvement.  When I was using the de-embedders (with being able to decode DSD in the DAC I may eventually stick them in some spare system if I get a non-DSD DAC), I also used an upgraded power supply.  For the Monoprice unit, anything that will work with the Squeezebox Touch will work.  It's not a night and day different but it helps a bit.  If you get the hi-rez files ripped, then you can hear higher resolution PCM from the computer.
Sounds good.
Another question - why is the sound better after I ripped the CD into iTunes than directly from the OPPO's HDMI out (which would be the SACD layer) into the Bryston?

ted_b

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #495 on: 28 Mar 2013, 05:20 pm »
Sounds good.
Another question - why is the sound better after I ripped the CD into iTunes than directly from the OPPO's HDMI out (which would be the SACD layer) into the Bryston?

The Bryston SP3 you just bought does NOT have DSD decoder capability, so whatever is being captured by the HDMI in is PCM, so i would guess you have the Oppo set to PCM mode for SACD HDMI, therefore there is some conversion happening in the player.  HDMi adds some jitter too (which is why the de-embedder is not as good of a solution as either offline PCM conversion or the best solution....pure native DSD playback into a DSD DAC.  The de-embedder, as I stated in the first post of this thread, is a cheap easy and-at-the-time almost exclusive way to get hirez PCM to your DAC without ripping, etc etc.  it was by no means the ultimate soltuion).

todd95008

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #496 on: 17 Apr 2013, 10:36 pm »
Looks like John Gatski finally did his review of HDMI embedders !!
http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/2013/04/audiophile-review-hdmi-de-embedder.html

Had not heard of the Kanex Pro unit..

Todd

Freo-1

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #497 on: 19 Mar 2016, 06:34 pm »
Looks like John Gatski finally did his review of HDMI embedders !!
http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/2013/04/audiophile-review-hdmi-de-embedder.html

Had not heard of the Kanex Pro unit..

Todd


Picked up a KanexPro Audio De-Embedder.  Quite a neat audio toy.  Seems to work very well.

From some initial comparisons between SACD direct from the Oppo and the Benchmark, it appears that the Benchmark is a step up sonically from using the Oppo directly.  The Benchmark also does sound better with the other LCPM data streams via the De-Embedder as opposed to the Oppo directly (with my setup).  The noise floor is lower, and there is a noticeable increase in clarity via the Benchmark.

I'll need to spend some time to confirm these observations.  So far, so good.

Jeff Permanian

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Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #498 on: 1 Sep 2016, 10:04 pm »
I've been using my Oppo direct to my amplifiers for 2 channel listening or using the Oppo's hdmi to a pre/pro for home theater. I picked up a Cherry DAC DAC and then realized the Oppo won't output sacd's digitally. I just ordered a KanexPro De-Embedder and a 1 foot hdmi. I'll report back on how it works.

Phil A

Re: Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!
« Reply #499 on: 2 Sep 2016, 12:12 am »
I've been using my Oppo direct to my amplifiers for 2 channel listening or using the Oppo's hdmi to a pre/pro for home theater. I picked up a Cherry DAC DAC and then realized the Oppo won't output sacd's digitally. I just ordered a KanexPro De-Embedder and a 1 foot hdmi. I'll report back on how it works.

Don't forget to set the Oppo to output PCM from SACDs when you get the de-embedder