I brought my modded Panny over to Tyson's yesterday. I also brought along one of Turk's modded Denon 2900's. I had a fair amount of Nitro speaker cable for bi-amping and a few Nitro power cords.

We first hooked up the Panny in Tyson's HT. He normally uses some older AVA OmegaStar amps. One stereo and one three channel. I believe he has a Accurus Preamp/processor. We watched some scenes from the Subperbit version of "The Fifth Element". We then installed in the Panny. This did take awhile as we had to try to calibrate the Panny to match what Tyson had his other gear set up as.

We finally got the Panny running. There was quite a change apparent. There was FAR moe high frequency information and the mid bass was a lot tighter. Mike Galusha commented about how the front three speakers seemed to be more seamless. The pans were now just across the front of the stage rather than moving from speaker to speaker. Dynamics were also improved.

Tyson switched to the Matrix for a couple of scenes and then switched back the AVA gear. What was apparanet was the AVA had a very big mid bass hump in comparison to the Panny, the highs were far softer and less defined. BTW the Panny had no trouble driving all five of Tyson's speakers even at some fairly loud levels.

We then went into listen to the two channel rig. We first compared the modded Denon to the CD-1 and Mensa + DI/O. The Denon was VERY dry and really had no dynamics or life. We then used the Denon into the DI/O. Now that was special. It really brought clarity and focus into the presentation. Mike loaded one of his 24/96 DADs in, and the DI/O handled it with no problem and everthing was great. Incredible dynamics!

We then decided to try the Panny. I hooked it up with just two channels at first with the 24/96 DAD feeding out of the Denon. There is music, but where is the bass?

Oh DAMN! I forgot to reset the speakers from small to large. All freqs below 100HZ were being filtered out. I changed the settings through the front panel and, THERE was the bass.

We listening for some time. The Panny was doing a very good job but on some of the low dynamic notes it really wasn't very happy.

I broke out another length of Nitro speaker wire. Hooked it up to the adaptors I had built that morning to the very low quality speaker connectors on the back of the Panny. Tyson ran the other end into another set of adaptors to his Bybee Jumpers.

I turned on the rear channel, driving the mid and tweeter panels and asked the guys to comment about the levels. We settled on about -2db. We listened to a couple of tracks and were fairly impressed but were not really thrilled. There was not a question that the Panny can drive the RM-40s in BI-Amp, party mode, but something was lacking. Rembering the adaptors I built that morning, I suggested we switch around the woofs and mid/tweet wiring. Now the more critical mid/tweets were being driven by the modded binding posts on the Panny and the bass by the adaptors. I adjusted the level again and played the disc.

Everyone just had a look of amazement on there face  I guess I got the hook-up right finally. After the track was over, Tyson was mumbling to himself "These speakers are HARD todrive. Lots of amps can't drive these, My speakers ARE hard to drive. "

He put in a track with a lot of bass. The Panny handled it very well. No distortion, no clipping.

Tyson then put back the gear taken out of the system. His modded Mensa Plus DI/O, a pair of Bybee Nitro Silver Bullets, his AVA T7, another pair of Bybee NITRO Silver Bullets, and his AVA 550. We kept the Biwire going and listened to the same track.

I will let Tyson, Mike and Sean, a friend of zybar who dropped by, talk about what was heard in comparrison to the Panny.

Mods to the Panny will start to be offered next week. The mods in the unit we listened to will cost $700.00 plus shipping to and from Colorado. There may be a lesser mod, but I am not too sure now. There will probably be a slightly more expensive two channel only bi-amp mod.

Thank you for the comments Wayne.  I have been hoping to get some feedback on that session soon.

I assume if you are settling on prices, the comments to come must be pretty promising.  Was there any additional listening done in 2-channel only (vs Party Mode) or did you need to bi-amp the speakers in use? Were any other speakers used?  Had anyone there heard the Panny in stock form vs your modded unit? (besides you of course).

Oh, the suspense! Come on guys, let us know how it did!

A6M-ZERO,

Believe me, I am even more skeptical!  

Like Tyson, I have the RM 40's and AVA T7.  After that, we have differences in our systems (I use Kora Cosmos Reference Mono Blocs and my digital setup is an Empirical Audio modified Sony S-7700 feeding an Electrocompaniet ECD-1 dac via Argent Audio Jaden Signature digital cable).

This is about $12K worth of gear.  The even remote possibility that this can all be replaced by a $300 receiver with $700 in mods is just soooooo hard to believe.

My friend Sean was there yesterday and he was very impressed with the sound they were getting with the Panny.  Will it better my setup?  I don't know.  I do know that I want to find out for myself and get that modded Panny here.  

GW

Zybar,

Having owned the Sony AVD S50 ES digital receiver, I can testify to the incredible value of "digital" drive amplifcation.  For what it is, and how much it costs, the unit is nothing short of phenominal.  Having great power, dynamics and detail that even make the well renoun hifi gear blush.  

However, it seemed to just lack that spark and personality that really transfers you into the music.  Listening to a few stock Panny's, I felt the same thing.  

Wish I had the coinage and the chance to demo this modded unit.  Its always great to find an alternative towards spending 5k. heh

I want to thank the DAM again for letting me sit in on the SA-XR45 session.

The first thing we watched was the "Diva singing" scene from the fifth element.  The two setups (AVA vs panny) offered very different sounds.  The AVA's seemed a lot softer, esp in the highs.  The panny resolved more in the high freq, the gun shots were amazing and seemed more like the real thing.  We also watched the scene in The Matrix at the beginning when the cops try to arrest Trinity.  At the point where she jumps across the buildings, there is a police siren coming from down below.  My jaw dropped when I heard this on the panny,  for a second I felt like was right above the street.  In general I felt that the panny had more punch and everyone agreed it also had better dynamics.

In the two channel  setup there was a lot of mixing of gear.  Outside of using the panny,  I really liked the Denon as a transport with the DI/O and AVA amps.  I'm no where as good as hearing and describing stuff like the DAM,  but this combo was very pleasing and very musical.

Now for the panny.  After a few attempts, Wayne got it just right.  At this point we were mostly listening to Tori Amos "Silent all these years".  The interaction bewteen the vocals and the piano was amazing.  I still can't believe the panny was driving the 40's and doing it with ease.  I can't even describe the mids and the highs, the panny is truly scary in these regards.  I think there is room for improvement in the bass.  The panny was not as tight and did not have the same control as the AVA's did.  Wayne seems to think he can fix this.  Maybe some modded binding posts for both the bass and higher ranges if room can be found?

I was so impressed, I ordered a 45 when I got home.  I'm not sure if this panny will replace/beat all of the systems mentioned in this thread.  My ears are not as trained but the panny/40's combo is the best rig I've ever heard.  

Audi-O,

We did not do any more listening in 2-channel, full range mode because the panny could not handle the bass (the 40's are very demanding). It wasn't awful but there were a couple spots that I cringed on.  We did not use any other speakers than the 40's for two channel.  I have not heard the stock panny b4, but mine should be here next week and I will let you know.

Sean

I'll keep my comments mainly on the 2 channel setup since that is where the biggest suprise/paradigm shift was.

Yes, bi-amping the 40's w/the binding posts driving the mids/highs & the clip on connectors driving the bass not only had better dynamics than anything I've heard, it also had a clarity, sweetness, and precision that the DIO/AVA combo did not.  

OK, some specifics of the setup/session.  First, we had the panny in the HT, where it was very dynamic, clear, and a bit bright/hard sounding.  Which is exactly what I am looking for in my HT, where impact, clarity, and precision are all-important for movies, IMO.  For 2 channel I was very, very, very skeptical that it would be in the system for more than 2 minutes.  First, for 2 channel I absolutely hate hardness/brightness in the sound.  Second, the 40's eat amps for lunch, especially somewhat low powered amps.  A $300 unit w/a measly 100 watts per channel would be a joke.  

So, after we hooked up the VMPS RM40's to the panny, and set the panny to actually send the bass signals to the speakers, well, I was half suprised and half not suprised.  First, the good.  The dynamics, rhythm, pace in the mids and highs were still outstanding, really, really impressive.  But the bad was the bass.  It was wooly, uncontrolled, boomy, just bad.  And there was still a tiny bit of hardness in the mids/highs, but for some reason the mids/highs were FAR smoother and sweeter than in the HT setup.

So, next we biamped the RM40's (with the binding posts driving the woofers, and the "quick connect" connectors and adapters driving the mids/highs) and the bass was very powerful, stronger than even the 550ex.  On a Nikka Costa track (Everybody's Got Their Something), the bass was so strong it was vibrating my couch.  I've only had one other amp do that, the Spectron Musician II, and even that was $3500 and capable of over 800 watts in to the RM40's load.  For this little panny to equal that was astonishing.  But I still liked the mids/highs a bit better from my AVA gear.  

Then Wayne switched the mids/highs to be driven by the binding posts, and the bass to be driven by the "quick connect" outputs, and while the bass lost a little texture and tighness, it was still very strong and tight, just not as detailed as w/the binding posts driving the woofers.  But the mids/highs were just magical.  It seemed like the panny was just able to track the signal more clearly.  Amazing transparency, but NOT analytical.  In fact, the Nikka Costa and the Tori Amos tracks I chose specifically because they can sound analytical and un-involving with many systems.  But the Panny was still sweet sounding, involving, and quite emotionally captivating.  It was at this point that I knew I would be selling all of my gear and getting the Panny.

It took me a while to figure out why the unit was somewhat bright/hard sounding in the HT, but was so smooth and sweet in the 2 channel setup, and it hit me just as we were wrapping everything up - BYBEES!!!!  The 2 channel setup had a bybee on the digital cable, and a pair of bybee's on the speakers input.  The HT setup had no bybees at all.  I would say that the Bybee's made a huge improvement in the overall level of refinement from this unit, taking it from "Musical Fidelity" level, to past the level of the AVA and the Parasound JC-1's.  And certainly better than the Classe amps I've heard.  In fact, the only thing I've heard better in the spatial/harmonics/sweetness category are some very good tube amps.  But then again tube amps don't have the speed, slam, dynamics, bass control, or overall slam that the modded Panny has.

So, anyone interested in some VERY nice Van Alstine gear?  Or a very nice Mensa DIO DAC?  I'm not kidding, make me an offer.  Maybe I'm just crazy and hearing things all wrong.  If so, my loss is your gain, I'll give a good deal on any/all of my gear, including the very nice Bybee'd Nitro Interconnects w/Bybee bullet plugs.

Also wanted to say that the RM40's had specifically been tuned to the AVA gear, and that the extra texture/tightness we hear w/the AVA stuff can almost certainly be addressed by two things - first and foremost, get some good quality binding posts on the Panny for both the Bass and the Mids/Highs.  2nd, re-tune the 40's to match up with the Panny.  Between these 2 changes I have absolutely no doubt the tightness/texture of the bass will surpass my current setup.

And to anyone that has the unit that is impressed w/it's overall drive and dynamics, but think it lacks a bit in refinement, get the mods and GET SOME BYBEE's.  Between the 2 they elevate the unit from "good for the $$", to "simply outstanding regardless of $$".

Wow. Damn if that ain't one of the best endorsements of a product I have ever read. Tyson, I know you have went through a lot of gear, I respect your groups findings. Nice job Wayne and THANK YOU!

The mods should sell big time. I'd love just to have all binding posts and the Bybee's to start, where do you get the ones you have Tyson? Maybe the stock unit gets pretty far with those upgrades when run in Party Mode/bi-amping. I am certain Waynes cap mods then take it beyond great. I will actually be using mine for theater but it will be nice to know how good it can get it if I should ever tire of my Naim stuff for music
(THAT probably isn't possible though).

Tyson
Before you ditch the AVA T7 try to match it up with Wayne's modified Carver ZR1600,
you probably can run it full range or use your AVA amp for the bass.

Like the panny, you should also get a great sound, but w/tubes and tons of head room.

Rob,

My friend Sean (who was over at Tyson's) just ordered his yesterday and will hopefully be comparing the two units.

GW