Super V Sound

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sl_1800

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Super V Sound
« on: 14 Nov 2009, 02:04 pm »
Yesterday I had the pleasure to visit with Danny and listen to the Super V speakers.  I have heard the V1 from it's early stages to the current and had the V2 at my house for several weeks prior to the RMAF show and now a first visit with the Super V.  This speaker went beyond my expectations, I could layer it on about the soundstage and highs and lows and so on and so on......but the dynamics from this speaker is what trips my trigger.  And yes they really will reproduce a 18Hz note with great ease, rocked the room.  I'll keep this short, if anyone wants to buy a pair of Orion's mine are for sale.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #1 on: 14 Nov 2009, 02:30 pm »
Steve,

Short and sweet. Thanks for the review  :D

Anand.

dBe

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #2 on: 14 Nov 2009, 06:56 pm »
Yesterday I had the pleasure to visit with Danny and listen to the Super V speakers.  I have heard the V1 from it's early stages to the current and had the V2 at my house for several weeks prior to the RMAF show and now a first visit with the Super V.  This speaker went beyond my expectations, I could layer it on about the soundstage and highs and lows and so on and so on......but the dynamics from this speaker is what trips my trigger.  And yes they really will reproduce a 18Hz note with great ease, rocked the room.  I'll keep this short, if anyone wants to buy a pair of Orion's mine are for sale.
What you said.

When I went to RMAF to share the suite with Danny and Gary, I had no idea what to expect.  I've always had tremendous respect from both of these guys.  Danny's speakers have always impressed me with their simplicity of design and thoughtful implementation. I have been building my own designs for over 40 years, most of which measure extremely well, but are also true to the music.  Because of that I've never felt compelled to build anyone else's design.  I also have a long background in the audio profession.  I can honestly say that the only speaker with a compression driver that I liked well enough to own was the original Meyer Sound Labs studio monitor (the model number of which escapes me).  Pretty much, I never met a compression driver that I liked.  The Super V changed ALL of that.  Moreover, I'm building the first loudspeaker, designed by someone else, for my own use in over 40 years.  I can think of no better personal reccommendation than that.

Great work, Danny.   :thumb:

Dave

sl_1800

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #3 on: 20 Nov 2009, 09:45 pm »
Took a friend to Danny's place today for a little listening to the Super V.  This is my second visit with this speaker...................absolutely fantastic.  And yes my friend was blown away with the sound as well.

jonasz

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #4 on: 26 Nov 2009, 06:14 am »
Steve, are you using a Pioneer HT-receiver for the woofers on your Orions?

sl_1800

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #5 on: 27 Nov 2009, 09:44 pm »
"Steve, are you using a Pioneer HT-receiver for the woofers on your Orions?"

Yes I am using the Pioneer for all channels of the Orion,  I have the Orions sub sonic filter turned on and I still have problems with the Pioneer shutting down on heavy bass notes.

sfdoddsy

Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #6 on: 30 Nov 2009, 11:26 pm »
Have you tried the Orions with a more suitable amp? One that doesn't shut down in loud passages?

satfrat

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #7 on: 1 Dec 2009, 03:15 am »
  I'll keep this short, if anyone wants to buy a pair of Orion's mine are for sale.

Just a heads-up, lowtech says he wants your Orions,,,,, or he's just talkin' trash. It's really hard to say,,,  :dunno:
 
Cheers,
Robin

lowtech

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #8 on: 1 Dec 2009, 04:19 am »

Just a heads-up, lowtech says...

When all else fails, read prior to inserting foot in mouth.

persisting1

Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #9 on: 2 Dec 2009, 08:30 am »
Quote
Yes I am using the Pioneer for all channels of the Orion,  I have the Orions sub sonic filter turned on and I still have problems with the Pioneer shutting down on heavy bass notes.

You should take your Orions over to Danny's place so you can hear them on his Dodd amps.  A HT receiver isn't the right piece of equipment for those speakers.  Personally, I'd take a pair of Super Vs over the Orions, but it seems you haven't given them a fair chance.  Especially if your receiver is clipping.

Danny Richie

Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #10 on: 2 Dec 2009, 02:26 pm »
I don't have enough Dodd amps to drive all the drivers.

I have used the Seas Excel drivers in other designs and I don't think that they are going to stand a chance regardless.

Quote
Here they are: Electrostatics, Ribbon, Planar, Heil, and the ATC midrange driver.

I think a better comparison would be to compare them to real instruments.

jtwrace

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #11 on: 2 Dec 2009, 02:30 pm »
I don't have enough Dodd amps to drive all the drivers.

The good news is that Gary has plenty of them in stock.   :lol:
http://doddaudio.com/forsaleitem.aspx

Danny Richie

Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #12 on: 2 Dec 2009, 02:42 pm »
Man, I can't begin to tell you just how good those new amps really sound. They are UNBELIEVABLE!

And they drive the Super-V's to serious levels.

The problem with the Orion's is that they are very inefficient and need a lot more power.

sl_1800

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #13 on: 2 Dec 2009, 02:59 pm »
In the beginning my Pioneer did not shut down, 5 years ago, but it's getting weaker as time goes by.  I have never had another amp to run the Orion's, most are prices out of my league.  And I have thought about trying to borrow a 4 channel from someone and try it with my Pioneer receiver to see how it would sound.  The bass of the Orion really needs solid state so all tubes would not be good.

Now comparing the Super V to other speaker technology.  I owned a pair of Soundlab Electrostatics back several years ago, I sold them for a reason.  As for sound comparison, there is no comparison, the Super V will blow them away.  All of us have a little things in a speaker that we tune into and like, for me it's the way a speaker works with the room it's in.  A dynamic open baffle speaker, like the Super V or my Orions, will reproduce a much more realistic musical experience than a electrostatic can, I say this because of the radiation pattern of sound.  A electrostatic like a Soundlab or Martin Logan is a open baffle design but the curve of the panel really is wrong.  The curving panel is done to create a spread of sound in the front of the speaker to create a wider sweet spot than a non curved electrostatic like the designs from Roger Sanders, which BTW are much better than either of the pre mentioned electrostats.  The problem with the curved panel is now the rear wave is compressed down to a very narrow beam, especially in the high frequencies.  This narrow beam of highs has  to be absorbed or it will bounce around the room like mad, look at Soundlabs site, they have a special panel to place behind the speaker to absorb that beam.  With the dynamic open baffle speakers the rear wave from the speaker is almost identical to the front, this for me is where the magic begins.  You DON'T want to absorb the rear wave of the speaker, give it room to breath, throw in some diffraction on the wall behind the speakers to scatter any reflections coming from the wall behind the listener and you will have magic in the making.

If you have never heard a speaker like the Super V or the Orion you really need to.  Also Danny's omni polar speakers a great sounding due to the omni dispersion of sound.

A short story, several years ago I had two college professors come to my place to hear my Orions, now understand this was before I understood the proper acoustic treatment for my room so my room was really live.  They didn't have high hopes when they saw the small untreated room with a Pioneer receiver and a Sony dvd player as a source.  A month later I was building Orion's for one of those guys to replace his 12,000 dollar Martin Logans. 

For me it's the way the dynamic open baffle works with the room that gives me goose bumps.  The speakers and room acoustics are 90% of the sound, source 7% and the electronics is the rest.  Listen to them and then decided for yourself.

jtwrace

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #14 on: 2 Dec 2009, 03:04 pm »
Do you know how efficient the speaker needs to be for them?

sl_1800

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #15 on: 2 Dec 2009, 03:09 pm »
Danny is right about the new Dodd amps.  I heard them at Danny's house two weeks ago and they are amazing.  We played around with some tube rolling on the new Dodd buffer stage, that was a real eye opener for me.  At first to me Danny's older Dodd pre sounded warmer and better to my ear.  But after playing around with different tubes we were able to get that midrange magic back into the system with the small amps and buffer.

Yes I know I said in my previous post the electronics had a small impact on the sound, and I'll stick with that.  First you need a speaker as good as the Super V to really hear the difference.  It was not just a suggested, " you heard that didn't you", kind of a difference, it was real.

Danny Richie

Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #16 on: 2 Dec 2009, 03:49 pm »
Hey Steve, It sounds a whole lot better now than when you were over here a few weeks ago.

I moved everything to the middle of the room and used really short RCA's. This dropped the noise floor down to almost ZERO.

I also changed out the caps in the DAC to Sonicap Platinum's.  :dance:  Vocals are now REALLY good! Even I am shocked.

sl_1800

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #17 on: 2 Dec 2009, 04:49 pm »
I may have to bring my dac sometime and do some comparisons.

Davey

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Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #18 on: 2 Dec 2009, 04:58 pm »
The problem with the Orion's is that they are very inefficient and need a lot more power.

Danny,

I'm puzzled by your statement.

For reference, what is the actual efficiency rating of the Orion's?
And at what rating do you consider a speaker system to become "inefficient?"

I will stipulate that your Super-V system is more efficient than the Orion system.  But I'm thinking more in relation to the vast array of other speaker systems available to today.

Cheers,

Dave.

Danny Richie

Re: Super V Sound
« Reply #19 on: 2 Dec 2009, 05:23 pm »
Quote
For reference, what is the actual efficiency rating of the Orion's?

With the mid-bass driver you are looking at about 85db of output below the baffle step loss on that baffle. So there is one limiting factor.

Each of the woofers is rated at 88db with one watt, but in an open baffle the output drops rapidly. It is already -3db down at 111Hz. Considering that it crosses around 180Hz you can pretty well call each of the woofers output at about 85db as well, and that's just at the crossover point. They are down 6db at 63Hz. Then 12db down by 28.8Hz and then 15.1db down at 20Hz. That's 73.3db of output at 20Hz with one watt. So it takes a lot of power to keep them linear (at the same level as the rest of the speaker).

All of that takes a lot of power to get up to real levels. Especially in those lower ranges.