Bicycling Off-Road

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2gumby2

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1240 on: 9 Dec 2017, 03:43 am »
DaveC113, Thanks for the information. I've not heard of those bike brands, but will look in to them.

DaveC113

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1241 on: 9 Dec 2017, 04:04 pm »
DaveC113, Thanks for the information. I've not heard of those bike brands, but will look in to them.

 :thumb:

Just like audio, there are now some direct-sale bicycle companies offering excellent value.

Santa Cruz, Trek, Yeti, etc. have racing programs, big advertising budgets, use dealers, etc... there are some minor advantages as far as production, they often use the best possible carbon so their frames weigh a bit less and they can more easily change their designs to keep up with the latest trends but the Trek Slash frameset at $3700 is getting a little ridiculous imo. Same for top-end drivetrains, etc... OTOH today's mid-line components are really excellent and much more affordable so we're really better off vs when prices were better years ago, the high-end is just even higher-end. My Slash should weigh around 28 lbs, for the kind of bike it is and it's DH capabilities that is incredible. This didn't exist 10 years ago.

2gumby2

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1242 on: 9 Dec 2017, 04:49 pm »
I like the YT bikes you recommended, but they are sold out in the model and size I am interested in. I'm not in a hurry though so I'll keep looking around until YT gets more product available.

coke

Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1243 on: 11 Dec 2017, 04:26 pm »
I just started looking at full suspension bikes and I'm pretty discouraged at the prices these days. I'm most interested in the Santa Cruz Tallboy ($4,800) and the Pivot 429SL ($6,700). If I went with a frameset for a build the Tallboy is $3,000 and I don't know if Pivot has a frameset available. I live in Wyoming and the nearest bike shop is two hours away if the weather is good. I may consider just sticking to road biking for a while.

As with audio equipment, you also get diminishing returns in bikes.  In general once you go past around $3,500 on a full suspension bike, you're just paying more money to lower the weight. 

If you don't have a local bike shop and are willing to buy online, you can usually get what you want for 30-50% off MSRP.  Example: https://www.steepandcheap.com/santa-cruz-bicycles-tallboy-carbon-cc-mountain-bike-frame-2017?skid=SNZ009Q-YELFOXPER-XL&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6dGFsbGJveToxOjM6dGFsbGJveQ==



FullRangeMan

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1244 on: 11 Dec 2017, 09:14 pm »
I just started looking at full suspension bikes and I'm pretty discouraged at the prices these days.
+1. These are motorcycle prices :duh:

DaveC113

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1245 on: 11 Dec 2017, 10:25 pm »
+1. These are motorcycle prices :duh:

Yup, otoh many parts are basically super-lightweight motorcycle parts and are made in far fewer numbers. Motorcycles are much more popular and enjoy economies of scale high end bike parts don't. You can also get bikes with lower end components that work fine and cost a less than a motorcycle.

My bike will be expensive but I ride it a couple times a week, often more.


Doublej

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1246 on: 11 Dec 2017, 11:14 pm »
OTOOH you can find motorcycles that will cost a lot more than these high end full suspension bikes. You can get an excellent full suspension bike for $2500 +/-.

If at this price point you think the bike weighs too much go on a diet. It's easier and cheaper to shed weight on oneself than it is on <30 lb. bike!

2gumby2

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1247 on: 12 Dec 2017, 01:55 am »
As with audio equipment, you also get diminishing returns in bikes.  In general once you go past around $3,500 on a full suspension bike, you're just paying more money to lower the weight. 

If you don't have a local bike shop and are willing to buy online, you can usually get what you want for 30-50% off MSRP.  Example: https://www.steepandcheap.com/santa-cruz-bicycles-tallboy-carbon-cc-mountain-bike-frame-2017?skid=SNZ009Q-YELFOXPER-XL&ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6dGFsbGJveToxOjM6dGFsbGJveQ==
Thanks for the link! Unfortunately, I'm only 5'4" and need a small frame so those bigger frames won't work for me.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1248 on: 12 Dec 2017, 02:05 am »
Yup, otoh many parts are basically super-lightweight motorcycle parts and are made in far fewer numbers. Motorcycles are much more popular and enjoy economies of scale high end bike parts don't. You can also get bikes with lower end components that work fine and cost a less than a motorcycle.

My bike will be expensive but I ride it a couple times a week, often more.
Gilding the pill.

coke

Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1249 on: 13 Dec 2017, 02:37 pm »
My bike will be expensive but I ride it a couple times a week, often more.

Same here.  My wife and I ride at least 3x per week, and I have no problem spending money on something that's a LOT of fun and keeps us both in shape.  We also race competitively, so I typically spend even more to help keep the weight down on our builds.

I've seen the motorcycle argument come up time after time over the years, and it's mostly due to ignorance of the technology and how people are using the bikes.  Justifying bike prices to someone who doesn't ride is the same as justifying your audio equipment to someone who has never experienced a decent set of speakers.  Why would you spend $1,000 on a set of speakers when you can get a pair from walmart for $50 that play just as loud???

DaveC113

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1250 on: 13 Dec 2017, 04:20 pm »
Same here.  My wife and I ride at least 3x per week, and I have no problem spending money on something that's a LOT of fun and keeps us both in shape.  We also race competitively, so I typically spend even more to help keep the weight down on our builds.

I've seen the motorcycle argument come up time after time over the years, and it's mostly due to ignorance of the technology and how people are using the bikes.  Justifying bike prices to someone who doesn't ride is the same as justifying your audio equipment to someone who has never experienced a decent set of speakers.  Why would you spend $1,000 on a set of speakers when you can get a pair from walmart for $50 that play just as loud???

Yup, most won't understand. A top end mt bike at $10k is often a lot less than folks spend on a single piece of audio gear, and you can still get a very high end bike for half that price. Sure, it's not as cheap as hiking or trail running but it's not an expensive hobby relatively speaking. Racing anything with a motor in it is orders of magnitude more money.




Folsom

Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1251 on: 13 Dec 2017, 07:07 pm »
Good bikes have parts that can last decades and centuries. Where as cheap ones will simply go to recycling if the parts are not continued. Shit bikes make me sad. I volunteered at a community bike shop for a long time, and the better parts stay better parts.

I suppose to some it's confusing how IMO the entry level bike is at about $1200, but funny enough you can get a real nice simple fixie built up for only like $2000 that exceeds the quality of a geared bike costing thousands more. Still, when you compare that to $120 at Wal-mart, sure, it must be confusing for some people. What isn't confusing is giving both a test ride and realizing one sucks ass, and the other makes you want to ride.

Trail running actually cost a lot in shoes. Running can cost more than bikes if someone is really avid with it. But that also depends on if the person on a bike sticks with it for X amount of years.

2gumby2

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1252 on: 20 Dec 2017, 05:13 am »
My co-worker and his wife are serious bicyclists. When I mentioned to him that I was interested in a new mountain bike he told me of a company in Utah called Fezzari that sells direct. He and his wife both use Fezzari and they have been very happy with them. This is another option for me to consider.
https://www.fezzari.com/mountain-bikes

ASCTLC

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1253 on: 20 Dec 2017, 12:23 pm »
Reminds me of this youtube video of a Huffy MTB test Folsom.    For some, it's mildly good enough for a few years of paved type trail riding but for others who push themselves it's dangerous even for a one time use, it all depends on one's intended use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkMnk_eCDQU

I have a 2016 Specialized Stumpy FSR that'll out perform my current skills but may fall a little short of some of my friend's skills. One thing it won't do though is snap of some unexpected drop or significant hit like "looks the similar but super weak design" (referring to Huffy type build).

Doublej

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1254 on: 20 Dec 2017, 12:50 pm »
My co-worker and his wife are serious bicyclists. When I mentioned to him that I was interested in a new mountain bike he told me of a company in Utah called Fezzari that sells direct. He and his wife both use Fezzari and they have been very happy with them. This is another option for me to consider.
https://www.fezzari.com/mountain-bikes

There at least 10 high end bike companies that sell direct. I found MTBR (Mountain Bike Review) to be an excellent site for details.

Bulls
Canyon
Airborne

are a few that come to mind.

2gumby2

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1255 on: 3 Jan 2018, 03:05 am »
Thanks for the suggestions. I've decided to do a custom build and I ordered a Canfield Brothers Toir 29er frame with DVO Jade shock. I want a coil spring based fork and I'm considering the MRP Ribbon Coil. I'll be needing a 140mm fork and I'm open to other suggestions. Leaning toward Shimano drive train, SRAM brakes, and Stan's No Tubes wheelset. Open to suggestions on all components at this point.

DaveC113

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1256 on: 3 Jan 2018, 04:00 am »
Thanks for the suggestions. I've decided to do a custom build and I ordered a Canfield Brothers Toir 29er frame with DVO Jade shock. I want a coil spring based fork and I'm considering the MRP Ribbon Coil. I'll be needing a 140mm fork and I'm open to other suggestions. Leaning toward Shimano drive train, SRAM brakes, and Stan's No Tubes wheelset. Open to suggestions on all components at this point.

Nice! I've rode a couple of Canfields and to this day the "One" is a friend's favorite bike he's ever owned and I remember Gene Hamilton of Better Ride clinics describe the Jedi as cheating some years ago.

Some parts suggestions...

Fox 36 Float Fork. You don't need metal springs.

Bikeyoke Revive dropper seat post.

SRAM drivetrain with Eagle HG 12sp and Descendent aluminum cranks. Go with an XO cassette if you want to fancy it up and lose some weight.

SRAM Guide RSC brakes with sintered metallic brake pads.

Light Bicycle wheelset, check out the asym 29er wheelset w DT 240 hubs. They have a US office now. Excellent value and the carbon rims are stiffer and accelerate faster vs alum, it's a decent difference. For a cheaper option look into a SRAM Rail 50 wheelset, they are on closeout for $500ish right now but might not have boost spacing...

Magic Mary 2.35 Addix Soft / Snakeskin front tire, Maxxis Tomahawk 2.3 3C EXO rear tire.

You might want to look into ordering some parts from overseas, like BikeDiscount.de... In the past I've bought Schwalbe and Michelin tires for less than US wholesale prices, often you can find better deals on some things if you look at some int'l options. Ebay often has take-offs, these are parts that are taken off brand new bikes or from build kits intended for OEM frames.

Good luck!

2gumby2

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1257 on: 3 Jan 2018, 08:46 pm »
I would also like recommendations for an elliptical chain ring. Based on reviews I've seen the Absolute Black and Wolf Tooth Components are well regarded. If you have experience with these company's products I would be interested in your opinions.

DaveC113

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1258 on: 4 Jan 2018, 12:10 am »
I've used 1up and AB oval rings, both are about the same, WT a little more conservative.

I went with an AB 32t oval ring w their guide/bash for my build. I like the oval ring, it feels like it puts power down more smoothly and makes for a more even cadence. Myself and friends who have tried it can't discern it's oval by pedaling it, it's pretty cool and I'm not going back to round. Be careful to order the right one for your cranks and spacing.

Also, for a front tire Maxxis DHF 3C EXO 2.3 or 2.5 is a good choice but Schwalbe MM is a little lighter with the 2.35 being about the same size as the Maxxis 2.5 and ~1/4lb lighter.  Both are really good front tires.

2gumby2

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Re: Bicycling Off-Road
« Reply #1259 on: 4 Jan 2018, 04:13 am »
I've used 1up and AB oval rings, both are about the same, WT a little more conservative.

I went with an AB 32t oval ring w their guide/bash for my build. I like the oval ring, it feels like it puts power down more smoothly and makes for a more even cadence. Myself and friends who have tried it can't discern it's oval by pedaling it, it's pretty cool and I'm not going back to round. Be careful to order the right one for your cranks and spacing.

Also, for a front tire Maxxis DHF 3C EXO 2.3 or 2.5 is a good choice but Schwalbe MM is a little lighter with the 2.35 being about the same size as the Maxxis 2.5 and ~1/4lb lighter.  Both are really good front tires.
Would you recommend changing the number of teeth on the chain ring using an elliptical? For the gear ratios I'm interested in, a 28 tooth round ring would be what I would use, but I don't know if it would be the same using an elliptical chain ring.
I'm leaning toward the Schwalbe Rock Razor for the rear tire and I'll look at your recommendations for the front.