Re: How to rip Hi-Res

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BPT

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« on: 22 Jun 2009, 01:49 pm »
Hey Ted, can we add ripping hi-rez here as well--"How to rip & burn Hi-Res". Some have computer based systems and have the same problem in reverse. We have a DVD-A, SACD, DVD, DAD that we want to hear but have problems getting the music onto hard drive as a hi-res file (WAV, FLAC, whatever) to play through USB/Firewire Transporter, Empirical, Wavelength, etc. I am currently using DVD Audio Extractor, which is OK and wonder what others are using that might be better? Also, on another thread I see SlimDevices may be coming out with a 24/96 capable player at a much lower price than the Transporter.
Chris H.

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #1 on: 22 Jun 2009, 02:08 pm »
Chris,
Yes, I use DVD Audio Extractor, but it only works for ripping DVD-V hirez stuff, meaning those 24/96 (max) files that reside in the Video_TS folder on a standard DVD-Video disc.  Examples includes Neil Young Greatest Hits, Live at Massey Hall, or any DVD-V side of DAD's and HDAD's.   The real gem is the difficult-to-find DVDAexporer that accesses and rips proprietary MLP (up to 24/192) off of true DVD-Audio discs.  It's a great invention.  Maybe I should start a new thread, huh, cuz there are subtleties that need to be discussed (how to get stereo downmixes when 2 channel layer isn't present, etc.)?
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ezrzeo

Edit:  this is a new thread for discussing ripping Hirez material to the HD.  I will follow up with more specifics asap (later this aft).  Feel free to add or ask.   :) 

EDIT/UPDATE:  I've added these up here from a later post cuz many folks have asked me about it and fail to read the whole thread.  :)

Here are two new documents I've found over on the Surround Google Group website.  They are the DVDAexplorer user manual in html, and a nice how-to for ripping DVD-A to FLAC (same process as I described, with a few more screenshots).

http://surroundsound.googlegroups.com/web/DVD-Audio+Explorer+User+Manual+17.06.08.html?gda=TocmMF4AAABa5S46sSFQ5Ob3Yk8k2KcJ19zY5vGw7aWECqCFG3jjQehHv0MIOm7dxAxU9EAsuTADy8hj1ywpiFjEbwT_n7uViBO0zAWl_EYva0eDLdmNIeOwpdWz5ftt1dlzlu5J-bE&gsc=8-cpvy4AAACyjkZzBh5tFgdIyRWUtawU6UqfibKP_G_W2zhvpj7JySED57ZgFQAGV9SQARzJfks

http://groups.google.com/group/surroundsound/web/guide-for-ripping-dvd-a-to-flac
« Last Edit: 6 Jul 2010, 07:32 pm by ted_b »

ted_b

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #2 on: 22 Jun 2009, 07:03 pm »
As we mentioned, there are two specific tools to rip DVD-based HiRez to your hard rive for later playback via software players, Squeeze Center (up to 24/96) etc.  They address two distinct DVD signal paths.

1)  For those standard DVD's and DAD's that have 2 channel PCM HiRez layers (Neil Young Live at Massey Hall, Classic DAD's like Cannonball Adderley Somethin' Else or Muddy Waters Folk Singer...or the DVD-V side of the HDAD of same) the best and easiest tool I've found is called DVD Audio Extractor.  It can be found easily on the Web and has free trials. Here's one link:
http://www.castudio.org/download.php

It rips up to 24/96 (the highest Rez on standard DVD's).



2) As mentioned in the thread above, to rip the "other white meat" of DVD audio lore, the very proprietary Meridian Lossless Packed (MLP) HiREz of DVD-Audio discs (up to 24/192) a piece of software called DVDAExplorer is used.  The link is attached above.  This software looks in the Audio_TS folder (as opposed to the Video_TS folder in DVD-Video discs) and presents the user with the option of ripping the dedicated 2 channel title (name of layer in DVD-Audio world) or the multichannel title (which usually looks like 2 streams, one is labeled lf-rf-ls-rs, the other labeled c-lfe).  You want to rip the 2 channel layer (title) for 2 channel playback.
(Note: multichannel ripping is possible but a subject for another day...wayyyy too much work IMO).



On some DVD-Audio discs (or the DVD-Audio side of the less popular two-sided HDAD's) there is no 2 channel title, only multichannel.  Fear not, for in most of these situations there is a hidden table (called SMART) embedded within the disc that maps the multichannels into a downmix that is quite good and still quite HiRez 924/96 usually).  Discs like Beatles-Love, Natalie Merchant-Tigerlily are examples.  In these cases the later versions of DVDAExplorer has a simple check box called "get stereo donwmix" that will read the SMART table and do the rip properly.  Here is a screenshot from Version 2008.7.21(beta 3)



Let me know if any questions.  Enjoy.
« Last Edit: 23 Jun 2009, 12:56 am by ted_b »

zybar

Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #3 on: 22 Jun 2009, 09:18 pm »
Great post Ted.

Per your advice, I have used both tools successfully and have many more hi-rez recordings loaded into SqueezeCenter.   :thumb:

Thank you!

George

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #4 on: 22 Jun 2009, 09:22 pm »
Thanks for that, George.  I feel like I've given back a little over these last two or three threads here.  That makes me 2-107 (2 gives, 107 takes).  I'm catching up.   :thumb:  Ain't AC wonderful.

mdconnelly

Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #5 on: 22 Jun 2009, 09:33 pm »
...Also, on another thread I see SlimDevices may be coming out with a 24/96 capable player at a much lower price than the Transporter.
Chris H.
Chris, can you point me to where you saw this?   While the latest SqueezeCenter and SB3 can, in fact, down-convert 24/96 to 24/48, I have not heard anything about a new 24/96 capable player but would be very interested if/when one were to appear on the market at a more affordable price than the Transporter.

ted_b

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #6 on: 22 Jun 2009, 09:46 pm »
it's called the Squeezebox Touch and it''s possible existence is just leaking out in dribs and drabs.  Said to be 24/96 capable, have a USB interface of some sort (?) and an SD card input.  No release info.

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #7 on: 22 Jun 2009, 10:12 pm »
Thanks Ted. I've been busy using your suggested DVD-AE and adding some new music files from DVD-As. Have found a couple that won't let you downmix to 2 channel--Pet Sounds & 1812.  :( I'm sure a few more will show up.
Chris H.

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #8 on: 23 Jun 2009, 04:22 pm »
BTW, after ripping to wav, I then need a way to store these files with all their metadata, for use with things like Squeeze Center (up to 24/96) or Foobar/pc (up to 24/192).  So:
1)  take the WAV files and convert to a lossless codec that supports embedded metadata/tagging.  i personally use Wavpack for my HiRez stuff because it sounds good and because FLAC and HiRez don't always get along in SC if you're doing transcoding-on-the-fly (another thread, another story).  I use DBPoweramp to do all my format converting.  I will convert to a new folder called "artist - album".
2)  I then right click on that folder and bring up MP3Tag, another great freeware solution.  MP3TAg is wonderful for tagging whole albums, as well as scanning large directories for tagging consistencies once finished.  In the case of ripping, say, David Crosby's DVD-A of If I Could Only Remember My Name, I highlight the entire list of tracks that were brought into MP3TAG, and then click on "tag sources -> Amazon" and type in David Crosby or the album name.  It will bring up several tag examples to choose from, including album art. 

(NOTE: realize that most programs like Foobar or Squeeze Center will access album art in one of two ways, either embedded in the tags or via cover.jpg naming convention.  Embedded is easy if you find the Amazon tags, but stores more data since that 20-30k art is embedded in each song tag.  Using the "cover.jpg" approach is simply putting the album art photo in each folder once, saving space.  But if you ever go to another program and/or codec that doesn't look for cover.jpg, like iTunes, then you need to import album art all over again.)

Philistine

Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #9 on: 28 Jun 2009, 06:39 pm »
BTW, after ripping to wav, I then need a way to store these files with all their metadata, for use with things like Squeeze Center (up to 24/96) or Foobar/pc (up to 24/192).  So:
1)  take the WAV files and convert to a lossless codec that supports embedded metadata/tagging.  i personally use Wavpack for my HiRez stuff because it sounds good and because FLAC and HiRez don't always get along in SC if you're doing transcoding-on-the-fly (another thread, another story).  I use DBPoweramp to do all my format converting.  I will convert to a new folder called "artist - album".
2)  I then right click on that folder and bring up MP3Tag, another great freeware solution.  MP3TAg is wonderful for tagging whole albums, as well as scanning large directories for tagging consistencies once finished.  In the case of ripping, say, David Crosby's DVD-A of If I Could Only Remember My Name, I highlight the entire list of tracks that were brought into MP3TAG, and then click on "tag sources -> Amazon" and type in David Crosby or the album name.  It will bring up several tag examples to choose from, including album art. 

(NOTE: realize that most programs like Foobar or Squeeze Center will access album art in one of two ways, either embedded in the tags or via cover.jpg naming convention.  Embedded is easy if you find the Amazon tags, but stores more data since that 20-30k art is embedded in each song tag.  Using the "cover.jpg" approach is simply putting the album art photo in each folder once, saving space.  But if you ever go to another program and/or codec that doesn't look for cover.jpg, like iTunes, then you need to import album art all over again.)

Ted, Need your help:
I've gone through the steps you suggested and succesfully have The Beales - Love as a folder inside my Music folder that Squeeze Center (7.3.3) acceses.  When I do a scan new music it doesn't find the Love folder - the file extension is .wv.  I must be doing something wrong that is a simple issue - any ideas?
Thanks, Phil

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #10 on: 28 Jun 2009, 08:26 pm »
BTW, after ripping to wav, I then need a way to store these files with all their metadata, for use with things like Squeeze Center (up to 24/96) or Foobar/pc (up to 24/192).  So:
1)  take the WAV files and convert to a lossless codec that supports embedded metadata/tagging.  i personally use Wavpack for my HiRez stuff because it sounds good and because FLAC and HiRez don't always get along in SC if you're doing transcoding-on-the-fly (another thread, another story).  I use DBPoweramp to do all my format converting.  I will convert to a new folder called "artist - album".
2)  I then right click on that folder and bring up MP3Tag, another great freeware solution.  MP3TAg is wonderful for tagging whole albums, as well as scanning large directories for tagging consistencies once finished.  In the case of ripping, say, David Crosby's DVD-A of If I Could Only Remember My Name, I highlight the entire list of tracks that were brought into MP3TAG, and then click on "tag sources -> Amazon" and type in David Crosby or the album name.  It will bring up several tag examples to choose from, including album art. 

(NOTE: realize that most programs like Foobar or Squeeze Center will access album art in one of two ways, either embedded in the tags or via cover.jpg naming convention.  Embedded is easy if you find the Amazon tags, but stores more data since that 20-30k art is embedded in each song tag.  Using the "cover.jpg" approach is simply putting the album art photo in each folder once, saving space.  But if you ever go to another program and/or codec that doesn't look for cover.jpg, like iTunes, then you need to import album art all over again.)

Ted, Need your help:
I've gone through the steps you suggested and succesfully have The Beales - Love as a folder inside my Music folder that Squeeze Center (7.3.3) acceses.  When I do a scan new music it doesn't find the Love folder - the file extension is .wv.  I must be doing something wrong that is a simple issue - any ideas?
Thanks, Phil

Phil,
Can you post what the file or folder looks like?  Is it like this (after tagging with MP3tag and converting to wavpack)?  Mine is read by Squeeze Center (but I use 7.4 daily from January 28th)


zybar

Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #11 on: 28 Jun 2009, 08:29 pm »
BTW, after ripping to wav, I then need a way to store these files with all their metadata, for use with things like Squeeze Center (up to 24/96) or Foobar/pc (up to 24/192).  So:
1)  take the WAV files and convert to a lossless codec that supports embedded metadata/tagging.  i personally use Wavpack for my HiRez stuff because it sounds good and because FLAC and HiRez don't always get along in SC if you're doing transcoding-on-the-fly (another thread, another story).  I use DBPoweramp to do all my format converting.  I will convert to a new folder called "artist - album".
2)  I then right click on that folder and bring up MP3Tag, another great freeware solution.  MP3TAg is wonderful for tagging whole albums, as well as scanning large directories for tagging consistencies once finished.  In the case of ripping, say, David Crosby's DVD-A of If I Could Only Remember My Name, I highlight the entire list of tracks that were brought into MP3TAG, and then click on "tag sources -> Amazon" and type in David Crosby or the album name.  It will bring up several tag examples to choose from, including album art. 

(NOTE: realize that most programs like Foobar or Squeeze Center will access album art in one of two ways, either embedded in the tags or via cover.jpg naming convention.  Embedded is easy if you find the Amazon tags, but stores more data since that 20-30k art is embedded in each song tag.  Using the "cover.jpg" approach is simply putting the album art photo in each folder once, saving space.  But if you ever go to another program and/or codec that doesn't look for cover.jpg, like iTunes, then you need to import album art all over again.)

Ted, Need your help:
I've gone through the steps you suggested and succesfully have The Beales - Love as a folder inside my Music folder that Squeeze Center (7.3.3) acceses.  When I do a scan new music it doesn't find the Love folder - the file extension is .wv.  I must be doing something wrong that is a simple issue - any ideas?
Thanks, Phil

Phil,

Sometimes SC just doesn't pick up new music until you do a complete new scan of everything.  I wish I knew why this happens, but it has been happening to me from time to time in v7.3.x and v7.4.x beta.

The good news is that a complete new scan always has taken care of things.

George

Philistine

Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #12 on: 28 Jun 2009, 10:54 pm »
BTW, after ripping to wav, I then need a way to store these files with all their metadata, for use with things like Squeeze Center (up to 24/96) or Foobar/pc (up to 24/192).  So:
1)  take the WAV files and convert to a lossless codec that supports embedded metadata/tagging.  i personally use Wavpack for my HiRez stuff because it sounds good and because FLAC and HiRez don't always get along in SC if you're doing transcoding-on-the-fly (another thread, another story).  I use DBPoweramp to do all my format converting.  I will convert to a new folder called "artist - album".
2)  I then right click on that folder and bring up MP3Tag, another great freeware solution.  MP3TAg is wonderful for tagging whole albums, as well as scanning large directories for tagging consistencies once finished.  In the case of ripping, say, David Crosby's DVD-A of If I Could Only Remember My Name, I highlight the entire list of tracks that were brought into MP3TAG, and then click on "tag sources -> Amazon" and type in David Crosby or the album name.  It will bring up several tag examples to choose from, including album art. 

(NOTE: realize that most programs like Foobar or Squeeze Center will access album art in one of two ways, either embedded in the tags or via cover.jpg naming convention.  Embedded is easy if you find the Amazon tags, but stores more data since that 20-30k art is embedded in each song tag.  Using the "cover.jpg" approach is simply putting the album art photo in each folder once, saving space.  But if you ever go to another program and/or codec that doesn't look for cover.jpg, like iTunes, then you need to import album art all over again.)

Ted, Need your help:
I've gone through the steps you suggested and succesfully have The Beales - Love as a folder inside my Music folder that Squeeze Center (7.3.3) acceses.  When I do a scan new music it doesn't find the Love folder - the file extension is .wv.  I must be doing something wrong that is a simple issue - any ideas?
Thanks, Phil

Phil,

Sometimes SC just doesn't pick up new music until you do a complete new scan of everything.  I wish I knew why this happens, but it has been happening to me from time to time in v7.3.x and v7.4.x beta.

The good news is that a complete new scan always has taken care of things.

George

Thanks George, appreciate the support.
That fixed it :thumb:  First time I've had this issue, a new music scan always worked. 
Filled with the success I'll rip some more.
Phil

Philistine

Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #13 on: 10 Jul 2009, 03:15 pm »
BTW, after ripping to wav, I then need a way to store these files with all their metadata, for use with things like Squeeze Center (up to 24/96) or Foobar/pc (up to 24/192).  So:
1)  take the WAV files and convert to a lossless codec that supports embedded metadata/tagging.  i personally use Wavpack for my HiRez stuff because it sounds good and because FLAC and HiRez don't always get along in SC if you're doing transcoding-on-the-fly (another thread, another story).  I use DBPoweramp to do all my format converting.  I will convert to a new folder called "artist - album".
2)  I then right click on that folder and bring up MP3Tag, another great freeware solution.  MP3TAg is wonderful for tagging whole albums, as well as scanning large directories for tagging consistencies once finished.  In the case of ripping, say, David Crosby's DVD-A of If I Could Only Remember My Name, I highlight the entire list of tracks that were brought into MP3TAG, and then click on "tag sources -> Amazon" and type in David Crosby or the album name.  It will bring up several tag examples to choose from, including album art. 

(NOTE: realize that most programs like Foobar or Squeeze Center will access album art in one of two ways, either embedded in the tags or via cover.jpg naming convention.  Embedded is easy if you find the Amazon tags, but stores more data since that 20-30k art is embedded in each song tag.  Using the "cover.jpg" approach is simply putting the album art photo in each folder once, saving space.  But if you ever go to another program and/or codec that doesn't look for cover.jpg, like iTunes, then you need to import album art all over again.)

Ted, Need your help:
I've gone through the steps you suggested and succesfully have The Beales - Love as a folder inside my Music folder that Squeeze Center (7.3.3) acceses.  When I do a scan new music it doesn't find the Love folder - the file extension is .wv.  I must be doing something wrong that is a simple issue - any ideas?
Thanks, Phil

Phil,
Can you post what the file or folder looks like?  Is it like this (after tagging with MP3tag and converting to wavpack)?  Mine is read by Squeeze Center (but I use 7.4 daily from January 28th)



Ted, since my first issue I've ripped a few more DVD-A's with no issues and Squeeze Center has added the new hirez rips after scanning for new music without having to perform a rescan.
Computer related issues can be a huge time soak trying to piece together all the elements needed from different sites, so thanks for putting all this together in a single and easy to use guide :thumb:

I've got a mountain of SACD's, and I see no chance of ever being able to rip these - I'm not sure what the legality on this is but it would be cool if a third party service could rip these on the basis that individuals provide proof of ownership of the original disc.

Phil 

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #14 on: 10 Jul 2009, 03:18 pm »
Phil,
Agreed.  I wonder if there is a way to capture the 24/176 stream that would come off a DVD-Upgrades board mod.  Hmmm...

strat95

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #15 on: 15 Oct 2009, 07:57 am »
First I would like to say that High-Rez music is a great new circle to have.  Thanks Ted for coming up with it and executing.

I like where this thread is going and I have a question regarding High-Rez rips.  When ripping CDs, Exact Audio Copy is a very popular piece of FREE software used, and with proper settings is capable of extracting what are considered 100% accurate rips.

I would like to know if there is software available to rip High-Rez files accurately from DVD-V and DVD-Audio and maybe even Blu-Ray discs for that matter?

I will try to explain what I have encountered to better explain the reason for my question.

I have ripped CDs using a piece of software called CloneCD which is supposed to make a bit for bit identical copy.  I load up the image file created on a virtual drive and then use Exact Audio Copy to rip the individual songs from the image file.  I also rip a copy of the individual songs direct from the CD using Exact Audio Copy.  Settings in Exact Audio Copy were not changed and ripping was done in secure mode with the AccurateRip feature activated.  As it turns out, the songs that came from the CloneCD image file are not identical to the songs extracted directly from CD.  The check was performed via CRC checking software as well as by comparing waveforms in WaveLab.

I also found that ripping the CD a second time using CloneCD yielded different results than the first rip via CloneCD.

Does the software mentioned in this thread for ripping High-Rez music do any sort of error correction/checking and is there anything on the market to do this?

Thanks for any help.

TV

ted_b

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #16 on: 15 Oct 2009, 02:05 pm »
Good question.  I could have this all wrong,and someone correct me if I do, but EAC (my cd ripper too, love it) and other good redbook rippers do all that crazy error correction (read until right) cuz of the way redbook and the reed-solomon error codes are applied.  I suspect that is less necessary in the "rip PCM from DVD-V" or "rip MLP onto PCM from DVD-A" world.  In those scenarios it's more like file copying, and the software is adept more at finding and making the files available than doing error correction.  My $.02.   My net/net is that I've not heard dropouts or any error-induced issues while listening to ripped DVD-based files, yet have hard many when ripping cd's via inferior (iTunes w/no correction, etc.) approaches.  (Note;  I may be wet here..:)  )

strat95

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #17 on: 15 Oct 2009, 04:06 pm »
Hi Ted,

I hadn't heard that before.  So I guess it's not necessary to have error correction if it treats the extracted data like files from a hard drive.

I will perform a test to verify.  I will rip full DVDs (video included) as ISO files to my hard drive.  I'll use the same procedure both times with both unscratched DVD as well as a scratched DVD to see what the results will be.

I'll report my findings.

Thanks,

TV

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #18 on: 15 Oct 2009, 04:29 pm »
TV,
It's just my unsubstantiated theory.  Let us know.

strat95

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Re: How to rip Hi-Res
« Reply #19 on: 16 Oct 2009, 01:54 am »
So I just performed a test to see if duplicate rips from a DVD are identical.

I took a copy of a DVD that I have, the read surface is flawless without any scratches or blemishes.
I placed it in my Samsung SH-203B DVD drive and used CloneDVD2 from Slysoft to rip an ISO file of the single layer DVD.  I repeated the ripping process a second time and the ISO file obtained was identical in size when listed in Windows Explorer.  A right click/properties on each file showed that the files sizes were identical down to the last byte.  I ran a piece of software that looks for identical files and lists the results.  The program is called DiskState by Raxco and it generates a CRC code for each file.  If duplicate CRCs are found, a list is generated to show which files are duplicates.  I have used this program on my entire system out of curiosity and it was able to track down multiple duplicates in various locations.

The bottom line is that DiskState does not recognize the 2 rips as being exactly identical.  Keep in mind that this conclusion only applies to the rips created by CloneDVD2.  I would have to do further testing with the other 2 pieces of software mentioned in this thread to see if the audio rips, when duplicated from the same source disc, are identical.

I wonder if there is any info on this topic in the Hydrogenaudio forums?  I'm going to go have a look.

TV