[art]

Sending out a few units for evaluation. Projected price is $500.

"OK, another USB doo-hickey. So what? There are lots on the market already."

Yes, but how many use asynchronous mode? I doubt very many. Almost all use the adaptive mode.

"What does this mean to us?"

Well, adaptive mode uses the computer's clock to control everything. Which means lots of jitter.

Async mode means the doo-hickey controls everything. Very little jitter. About a much jitter as one of our fancy CD players, when used as a transport.

On top of that, most adaptive mode units also use the computer so power the converter.

This not only has its own low-jitter clock, but its own supply. Totally isolated from the computer.

So, you can but one of the fancy brands, that use rely on the computer to not only supply the clock, but also the power, or........

You can buy one of ours. For about the same price. Better performance, same price. Such a deal!

"Yeah, but what sampling rate will it do?"

Well, 44 kHz only.

"What good is that? We want 24-bits, 96 kHz."

Working on that. But since most of you have tons of CDs ripped to your HD, the first one is designed for CD playback only.

(We are not fond of upsampling 16-bits, 44 kHz source material. Especially when Bill Gates is somewhere in the middle. Sorry.)

Did I mention that it uses the same output stage that our other SPDIF products so?? Try getting >-30 dB return loss with the competition's version.

"Does that mean it uses a BNC connector?"

Yes.

"Ah-ha! Another shameless attempt to make something that needs BNCs so that you can sell your high profit SPDIF cables. Right?"

Sort of. Yes, should mean more cable sales. At least, we hope so!

Pat

[jrebman]

I'm interested.  What do I do next?

-- Jim

[art]

We are in the process of assembling 5 pre-production units. They will not have any silk screening on either the front or rear panel. We are presently squabbling over how fancy to make the front panel. Complicated by whether or not there is an LED to tell you that it is on. (Everyone knows my disdain for front panel LEDs.) So, no idea how this will get resolved.

Anyway, since there may be some minor changes to these 5 from the production run, I think that I can come up with a way to knock 10-20% off of the price.

All that you have to do is wait about one week or so for them to be assembled, tested, and burned-in. (Evaluation units have already been shipped.) Wouldn't hurt to send me an e-mail, so that you get first chance.

In return, it would help to tell us how fancy it has to look, keeping in mind that it is a $500 product.

Pat

[jrebman]

Pat,

YGEM

-- Jim

[pfarthing]

Hi, this sounds interesting. Was the USB side developed by yourselves, or licensed from Centrance or Gordon Rankin?

Also, does it work in Linux/Ubuntu?

Ghetto styling (but some nod towards silk screening) would probably do you no harm in satisfying most consumers' need for something other than a DIY Hammond. At $500, you'd be competing against things like the Bel Canto USBLink, which ironically doesn't look like much more than a Hammond with a sticker on it

[art]

1.) I can assure you that we did not write the code. Definitely not by CEntrance.

2.) That is a good question. I can not answer you. It has been tested quite a bit on Macs and various flavours of Windoze. Sounds best on Macs, worst on 2000. Which is what I have here. I should point out that I was playings CDs on my 2000 machine, not with ripped ones from the HD. There are not huge differences, but differences do exist. Nothing that I can measure, so one would not expect major changes.

3.) Yes, it will look a lot like the Bel Canto, except that it will be larger, and have an IEC connector on the end. There are not many ways to make a <$1000 product without making tons of them or going to a off-the-shelf enclosure. We never have been about making tons, and the process of getting custom enclosures made has been frustrating. We have often thought about doing what Kevin Haskins has just done, but the still leaves the problem of who does the finishing. That is the worst part.

I have not received any mail as of yet. You may want to resend.

Pat

[jrebman]

Pat,

I sent the email to the email link in the header.  Is there another one I should use?

-- Jim

[J Payton]

Art,

Lately I have been using my laptop with a balanced HagUSB into my Dac which I feel sounds better at this time than my Duet using SPDIF and FLAC files into the same DAC. I have a upgrade linear regulated supply I built for the Duet (Decent about $125 in parts but not overboard). I know you have the Duetta upgrade and now the Legato. For a person who could go either direction and since cost is about the same which product route do think has the better sound? One more quick question is how do you order either product from you. I did not see these items on your website.

Thanks,

Joel

[art]

Pat,

I sent the email to the email link in the header.  Is there another one I should use?

No, that is it. It should work. We do receive mail by that on a regular basis, but that does not mean a snafu can occur.

Pat

[art]

Art, I know you have the Duetta upgrade and now the Legato. For a person who could go either direction and since cost is about the same which product route do think has the better sound? One more quick question is how do you order either product from you. I did not see these items on your website.

Thanks,

Joel

Both products will use similar power supplies, identical SPDIF and oscillator stages. Personally, I would rather sell a new unit that we construct, as opposed to one that I (as an individual) modify.

Perhaps I should point out that our company is not in the "mod" business. I am taking on modifying Duets as a way to gain entry into the PC audio market. I am doing these mods in my spare time, and I am swamped with my day job chores. The Legato is just one of many things on my bench right now.

The key to products such as the SBR, Duet, and now the Legato is that they control the clock for the SPDIF outout. Almost all of the existing products rely on the computer to supply the clock.

Is there anyone who believes that the computer is best source of power and a quiet, stable clock? I doubt it.

In all honesty, I can not say which, if either, is better. In all likelihood, there are subtle differences. However, the folks that we  work with who are much more knowledgeable in PC audio than myself, claim that the h/w and s/w will make the most pronounced difference in how things sound. To paraphrase their position, you have to have enough "horse power" in terms of processing power and memory (and I suppose free space on the HD) to overcome the inadequacies of the s/w.

Which would I buy? Assuming that they sound close enough to each other, the Legato will be a fully supported product. Whereas the Duet will be something that I will futz with in my spare time.

OK, I suppose that raises the question why even mod the Duet?

Simple.

We learned long ago, in order to sell a DAC, you need to have a good transport to sell along with it. So, we are introducing a USB-SPDIF converter, along with a "garage product" modded Duet, to pave the way for selling DACs once again.

The first product we hope to introduce will be a $500 DAC. With a BNC connector! I am looking into building it with HDCD decoding abilities. (The parts are out there, surplus, now that MicroShaft owns the rights. In theory, one can buy the surplus parts and build something with them. Maybe if we made 100,000 of them M$ would object. I somehow think we will never make enough to get their attention.)

As for ordering............the mod will only be "advertised" here. We are not ready to unleash the final version of the Legato. As I said, 5 units are under construction, to weed out the snafus, and the little things that slow down construction. Anyone wishing one of those 5 should contact me directly.

Pat

[jhm731]

Art,

Lately I have been using my laptop with a balanced HagUSB into my Dac which I feel sounds better at this time than my Duet using SPDIF and FLAC files into the same DAC. I have a upgrade linear regulated supply I built for the Duet (Decent about $125 in parts but not overboard). I know you have the Duetta upgrade and now the Legato. For a person who could go either direction and since cost is about the same which product route do think has the better sound? One more quick question is how do you order either product from you. I did not see these items on your website.

Thanks,

Joel

Joel-


I have one of the five pre-production units, in addition to my Duetta upgraded SD Duet and 5 meter U-Byte cable.

I hooked the Legato to my wife's Mac Powerbook, which has some of the same music files I have ripped on my Dell Optiplex(VISTA) which feeds the
SD Duet.

IMO, the Legato sounds ever bit as good as my Duetta upgraded SD Duet. I need to try running the Legato off my Dell, but right now I think the  Legato has more bass impact and a better soundstage.

Another winner from Pat.

Aloha,

Dan


The Legato in action:

[tonyptony]

Dan, I don't want to turn this into a Duetta thread (although I am a bit frustrated that those with beta Duettas are not really saying much in that other thread), but do you have the final PS design for the Duetta or one of the alternate designs?

And as I understand it, Pat came up with some cleverness in the Legato that he intends to roll back into the Duetta design. I'm suspecting you may not have that?

[art]

Correction: Dan has one of two units made to see how many errors are in the PCB layout.

Only one. The next 5 have minor changes to make it easier to build. I already see one or things I may change. We have not been able to hear any differences, so I am happy. Changes are then considered to be only mechanical.

Tony: Not everyone who has Duetta proto has been forthcoming in responding. I can not force them to reply here. Dan is not one of them, and he has very early versions. Again, most changes are to make it easier for us to construct.

Pat

[pfarthing]

Will 24/96 and above support come with a firmware download or will the initial production units always be constrained to 44.1?

Also, can you say more on the ETA / spec / design overview of the DAC? Receiver, DAC, etc.

Be seeing you!

[art]

Will 24/96 and above support come with a firmware download or will the initial production units always be constrained to 44.1?

Yes, this will be 44 kJz only. Future plans for higher rates, some year. Most folks have CDs, and we are not fond of the upsampling s/w. We intend to stick with 44 kHz for standard Redbook material.

Also, can you say more on the ETA / spec / design overview of the DAC? Receiver, DAC, etc.

Before I even start to design it? Nope.

Be seeing you!

And you.

Pat

[pfarthing]

Here's a question - what's the benefit of Async if you're still using S/PDIF? I thought the major point of this is to eliminate S/PDIF a la Ayre and Wavelength?

[art]

What if you already have a DAC, and want better sound out of your computer? Use the sound card, and its inferior SPDIF output?

Also why it does not cost $1000-2000. Adding up the cost of the transport and DAC approaches buying one of those. How much does a bog standard sound card cost? What if you have a lap-top?

Ayre might be a bit too pricey for the average Joe, or he may not like tube outputs. Variety and competition makes for better products.

Speaking of which......sent out a few today.....still have a few more pre-production units I would like to send out. If you aren't keen on waiting for the fancy version (and full price), they are here.......calling for you..........

Oh, I forgot, you asked about Linux support.

Yes, it works, but I can not tell you how to accomplish it. A write-up explaining how may be forthcoming from a third-party.

Pat

[pfarthing]

Linux support is awesome! 

I'd take a prototype, except don't have a DAC atm  (but going to be getting one in the next few weeks) unless you want to send me one of those out, too, maybe something lying around on your bench  aa

[art]

And to think that I won't have to re-wire it for 240 V!

(The production version will have an internal switch for that.)

No DACs yet, though. Won't be for a few months.

Pat

[art]

Ok.......it is close to being a product.............photos forthcoming...............

Pat