[Horizons]

Has anyone heard either the Jazz Module or Dream Maker and observed any trace of horn sound?

I ask this because similar horn (waveguide) designs all have that horn coloration to my ears. I liked the Emerald Physics but it still sounds like a horn to me and it sounds bright. It looks like Duke uses a different (better?) horn and compression driver than Emerald does. Does this account for the improved sound of the AudioKinesis offerings?

Many thanks for your opinions.

[jtwrace]

go listen to them (Dream Makers).  You will fall in love.  I'm a huge electrostat lover and there's something about these that make me love 'em.  I listened to them with blues and WOW.  They are silky smooth and warm.  I can't wait until next weekend....I hope he brings them....prob not though.

Seriously, give them a listen.  I like them a lot.

[Duke]

Horizons, I can offer you some comments by longtime loudspeaker designer Lynn Olson on the subject of horn coloration in my speakers.  Lynn is not the easiest person to impress.  From his "Beyond the Ariel" thread over at DIYAudio.com:

"I really, truly, dislike horn coloration, and cannot ignore it, no matter how hard I try.... The AudioKinesis system I heard at the RMAF had very low horn coloration - I don't know if I'd say it was zero or not."

"In terms of low horn coloration, the AudioKinesis is the lowest I've heard so far..."

"My favorite of all the speakers at the show [RMAF 2007] was the AudioKinesis - and in a very difficult room, too."

"In terms of commercially available horn systems that have low coloration, I've only heard two: the Geddes Summa and the AudioKinesis."

I can dig up the links if you want to read these statements in context.

So there, my speakers are among the lowest in horn coloration in Lynn's experience, but he can't certify that my speakers have zero horn coloration.  And, I'm sure they don't; they aren't perfect!  My hope is that the things my speakers do wrong are lesser evils than what competing speakers do wrong, at least in the ears of some listeners. 

I do use a more expensive horn and a more expensive compression driver than Clayton Shaw uses in the CS2 - and I charge quite a bit more, so it's not really a fair comparison.  I use the same horn (ahem... "waveguide") that Clayton used in the first system he showed at RMAF 2006.  The geometry is different from what Clayton uses in the CS2, in ways that I think are of audible significance.  Maybe my speaker does some things better, maybe his speaker does some things better.  Wish I could do what I do in his price range!  My wife keeps bugging me to design a speaker that can compete head-to-head with the CS2, and I keep telling her that's not as easy as it sounds.  It's like she's telling me to diet down to the middleweight divsion and fight Marvin Hagler. 

Duke

[Duke]

Jtwrace, interesting comments you make - thank you.  I configured the Dream Makers with the radiation pattern of the SoundLab A-1 in mind, and let Roger West know that I was imitating his design in that respect.  I think he saw it as the sincerest form of flattery.

I have some people bugging me to show my new stuff at RMAF this year, and since I really only do the one big show a year I think that makes sense from a marketing standpoint.  The Dream Makers sort of established themselves, with a pretty good showing at RMAF and then a Golden Ear award from Robert Greene.  But, I promise that if I don't bring the Dream Makers, I'll bring something interesting.

Duke

[lonewolfny42]

Horizons....

I've heard both..the Jazz Module at RMAF '06, and the Dream Maker at RMAF '07.

I didn't hear any type of "horn sound"...just a very open , smooth sound from both speakers...and it was very enjoyable.

I would not say they were "bright"....more to the warm side...with fine detail.

Duke does nice work....try to have a listen....


Duke....

It's like she's telling me to diet down to the middleweight division and fight Marvin Hagler. 

  ...Don't do it....otherwise you'll need a few of these....

[cryoparts]

I didn't hear any type of "horn sound"...just a very open , smooth sound from both speakers...and it was very enjoyable.

X2.  I would be proud to own a pair.

Peace,

Lee

[mgalusha]

One of the only rooms I visited at RMAF in '06 was Duke's to hear the Jazz Modules again. I really liked them and I have horn'o'phobia as well.

[Clayton Shaw]

In the development of our Emerald Physics products, we have tested most of the good waveguides on the market. I can say without hesitation that the waveguide Duke is using is the most natural sounding unit out there (have not tested the Geddes WG). Don't forget that just as importantly, Duke has done a masterful job in crossover design to produce a linear and natural response. He also prioritizes power response at a level beyond most other speaker designers. At the end of the day, its really all about good execution and understanding which design elements are most relevant in real room environments. This is evident in the engineering and sound quality of Duke's designs.

Clayton Shaw
Emerald Physics

[Horizons]

In the development of our Emerald Physics products, we have tested most of the good waveguides on the market. I can say without hesitation that the waveguide Duke is using is the most natural sounding unit out there (have not tested the Geddes WG). Don't forget that just as importantly, Duke has done a masterful job in crossover design to produce a linear and natural response. He also prioritizes power response at a level beyond most other speaker designers. At the end of the day, its really all about good execution and understanding which design elements are most relevant in real room environments. This is evident in the engineering and sound quality of Duke's designs.

Clayton Shaw
Emerald Physics

Wow, what an incredibly honest answer. Clayton and Duke must be two of the most honorable high end speaker designers in the business!

Any chance of a CS2 on steriods using the DDS WG (I think that is what Duke is using) and BMS, B&C, or Beyma drivers? I would also certainly think that the DCX2496 could emulate any passive design. Or am I wrong?

[Duke]

Thank you Chris, Lee, and Mike for your votes of confidence.

And THANK YOU Clayton - can I print that out and frame it??

Duke

[jimdgoulding]

Duke-  I'm gonna miss RMAF this year.  The second best reason I had for going was to hear your speakers.  The first reason was to meet you and all the new fools for the music I've come to know from a distance here.  Curses.

[jtwrace]

Duke,

I hope your going to be patient with me this year.....I have a bunch to listen to on your speakers.

Looking forward to it.

[BrassEar]

-Wide range compression driver- new technology design- 500Hz to 22kHz bandwidth

Thanks Duke.

I would love to know which driver and waveguide will be used in the CS1. Sounds like an all out assault on the high end! 15 Hz bass extension. I can live with that.

[jimdgoulding]

Hearing Duke's Dream Makers and Jazz Modules is high on my list of things to do.  The technology and design are very persuasive to my values.  I would be a Sounds Labs fan, also.  Life is good but could be better. 

[James Romeyn]

Has anyone heard either the Jazz Module or Dream Maker and observed any trace of horn sound?

I ask this because similar horn (waveguide) designs all have that horn coloration to my ears. I liked the Emerald Physics but it still sounds like a horn to me and it sounds bright. It looks like Duke uses a different (better?) horn and compression driver than Emerald does. Does this account for the improved sound of the AudioKinesis offerings?

Many thanks for your opinions.

Absolutely, positively, no.

I've heard them several times.  I consider myself highly sensitive to the horn effect, maybe just one step lower than Lynn Olson.  Lynn picked the DM as one of his very favorites.  I hate to speak for another, but from what I've read of Lynn's own almost non-existent tolerance for the horn effect, it seems safe to say his praise would not have occurred if he detected such at all.   

Maybe your sensitivity is higher than Lynn's but I'd wager a lunch bet not. 

Both speakers are among my favorites, top 10 all-time.  They are extremely special. 

[Duke]

Additional comments about various speakers of mine, which have a bearing on the issue of "horn sound"...

Several relevant posts in this thread, about the Rhythm Prisms' debut at Lone Star Audio Fest 2010:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81383.0

A rather encouraging post from a self-described hater of horns:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78557.msg784475#msg784475

And, some comments on my Planetarium Beta system (controlled-pattern offset bipolar mains + a Swarm):

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1242395770&&&/Audiokinesis-Planetarium-Beta-Speaker-

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80437.msg770923#msg770923

[Clio09]

In my correspondence with Lynn Olson he made the following comment:

"You have excellent taste. The AK are probably the best horn speakers 
at this time - frankly, much better than the Geddes Summa or the much-
hyped Avante-Gardes or other German exotica."

He had also mentioned the lack of horn coloration in Duke's design.