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[gongos]

Update:  I have done a preliminary costing last weekend and it looks like the two-chassis Overdrive USB DAC will be:

Standard Overdrive USB DAC (2 chassis with three wall-warts) - $1999.00

Overdrive with Superclock4 for USB, 2-chassis - AC only - $2299.00

Overdrive with Ultraclock for USB, 2-chassis - AC only - $2699.00

This costing is preliminary because I dont have the assembly cost yet, but it should be close enough for the first orders.

This worked-out well, but only because I'm selling direct and not through dealers.  Through dealers, the base version would have to be priced at between $3500 and $4500.  The $1999 price point puts me squarely between the DAC-1 USB at $1300 and the BelCanto DAC3 at $2500, (not that these are even in the running against the Overdrive).

Next project: cost out the signature version.

Steve N.

Will these be the prices for someone using a Pace-Car via I2S?

Is the price for the Standard DAC $1999 or $2399? I thought it was the former.

Like I said, this is preliminary, not firm yet.  Even changing the op-amps can add $100, and I have not settled on the final ones yet. I still have to do comparison testing with two DAC's to deteremine this.  It looks more like $2499.00 for the standard version now.  As I get more info, it gets firmer.

Even at the $2499.00 price, I cannot afford to build the standard version by hand.  I would have to pay myself less than technician wages.  These will have to have local outsourced assembly, which means Q1 2009 at least.  The parts cost is really high on this DAC.  Even many of the SMT resistors cost 75 cents each rather than the usual .02 cents.  This is because I'm using low-noise resistors in all of the critical places.  No one else in this industry does this.  This is what makes this a great DAC.  A LOT of attention to detail like this.  There are 100 part types on the DAC board and over 300 total parts.

Look at it this way: $2.5K is cheaper than my  full mod package for the Benchmark DAC-1 and an Off-Ramp 3 without Superclock4. 

The Overdrive replaces a $10K preamp and competes with DAC's in the $15K range.  Truly a giant-killer at 10% of the price.

I plan to build all orders for the Signature version first, by hand.  I hope to ship at least a couple of these before the end of the year.

Steve N.

Thanks for clearing that up. Wanted to make sure my eyes weren't fooling me.

[moonman]

Hi Steve,

I was interested to see your comment:  "The Spoiler and the modded Northstar 192 sound a bit "thick" and restrained in comparison."

Regarding the Spoiler, you have capsulized some of my criticisms of it in my own 6moons review of it.  I liked the Northstar 192 better than the Spoiler, but I still found the Northstar to be a bit dynamically restrained compared to my "old-fashioned" Vecteur D-2 transport and totally tweaked out Audio Note 1.2 DAC.  Of course, others are free to disagree.

The Northstar certainly has some qualities (detail, smoothness) that surpass my Vecteur/AN rig, but I just can't live without the dynamics.  My friend (Dan), with the Northstar, says that the dynamics are better than when I heard it at my house during the review, because he has since added a Bastanis power cable and a premium aftermarket I2S cable.  Your modified Benchmark had dynamic explosiveness like I had never experienced in my system before (as I commented in my review, linked above).  I hope you have captured that sonic aspect with the Overdrive.

If it has the detail/refinement of the Northstar, with the dynamics of the modified Benchmark, it will be a winner.  I hope to get a chance to hear it.

I also like your idea of grouping the cords from the "wall-warts", as that addresses some of my concerns about the tangle of cables and multiple boxes.  Your points are well-taken regarding the sonic benefits of your power supply approach.

Best regards,
Steve Marsh
6moons.com

[audioengr]

Hi Steve,

I was interested to see your comment:  "The Spoiler and the modded Northstar 192 sound a bit "thick" and restrained in comparison."

Regarding the Spoiler, you have capsulized some of my criticisms of it in my own 6moons review of it.  I liked the Northstar 192 better than the Spoiler, but I still found the Northstar to be a bit dynamically restrained compared to my "old-fashioned" Vecteur D-2 transport and totally tweaked out Audio Note 1.2 DAC.  Of course, others are free to disagree.

The Northstar certainly has some qualities (detail, smoothness) that surpass my Vecteur/AN rig, but I just can't live without the dynamics.  My friend (Dan), with the Northstar, says that the dynamics are better than when I heard it at my house during the review, because he has since added a Bastanis power cable and a premium aftermarket I2S cable.  Your modified Benchmark had dynamic explosiveness like I had never experienced in my system before (as I commented in my review, linked above).  I hope you have captured that sonic aspect with the Overdrive.

It's there.

If it has the detail/refinement of the Northstar, with the dynamics of the modified Benchmark, it will be a winner.  I hope to get a chance to hear it.

I also like your idea of grouping the cords from the "wall-warts", as that addresses some of my concerns about the tangle of cables and multiple boxes.  Your points are well-taken regarding the sonic benefits of your power supply approach.

Thanks.  I have consulted with some magnetics experts.  Companies that hog-out solid aluminum to put the transformers in etc., are wasting their time.  It requires either distance to reduce the fields or a steel chassis.

I will try to pursue doing a 3-1 power cord for it, but this may take time.  The DC cords I think can be loosely braided to keep them as one.

The capacitor bank in the second chassis I am thinking I will call the:

"Faraday Vault" or
"Energy Vault" or
"Substation" or
"Jump Start" or
"Power Boost"

Please let me know if you like any of these names.

It will have sensing so that power cannot be applied to the Overdrive without all three power voltages present and in the correct values.  Relay control.  One could use the connections to do their own battery supply.  This bank of capacitors is not unlike what Nuforce did to improve the bass response of their Rev 9 monoblocks.  It works.  It is actually better to parallel a lot of smaller low-ESR caps than use a few Coke-can sized caps.

Steve N.

[moonman]

I guess I like "Faraday Vault" best.

Regards,
Steve Marsh
6moons.com

[enyonam]

  Obama-boost ??

[audioengr]

  Obama-boost ??

Was that on the list?

Steve N.

[wappinghigh]

Steve.

I've just proven to myself the HUGE benefits of going off grid by using a battery powered redwine amp. I've FINALLY got rid of the annoying interference I was getting through the AC when playing 24/96 files. I'd tried everything else believe me! I'm looking forward to seeing how your "offgrid" Overdrive goes....this is definitely the way to go for computer audio IMHO. Congrats on persuing this...AB

[catastrofe]

Steve, any updates?

Happy Thanksgiving!   

[audioengr]

Update:

The rev 2.0 Overdrive boards are on their way and the Substation board is about to be taped-out, in the next few days.  There are a number of electrical improvements in the rev 2.0 Overdrive board beyond some mechanical changes to improve fit and function.  I expect it to sound even better, particularly in the dynamics and bass department.  This I hope will be the production board to have outsourced assembly.

The switching supplies that I planned to put inside the Substation have not worked out.  They are too large to fit inside the chassis and besides, they dont sound good.  Therefore, there will be three wall-warts driving the Substation. 

There seems to be a large benefit in both keeping the supplies well away from the DAC as well as eliminating the AC power cord(s) and having the supplies plug directly into the AC outlet and supply only DC.  I dont want to lose the 3-D "vivid" character that the Overdrive DAC has now, and the other floor-warts that I have tried eliminate this magic.

Steve N.

[PLMONROE]

I plan to build all orders for the Signature version first, by hand.  I hope to ship at least a couple of these before the end of the year.

Steve N.
[/quote]

Steve, do you have an updated production time line? 

Paul

[audioengr]

I plan to build all orders for the Signature version first, by hand.  I hope to ship at least a couple of these before the end of the year.

Steve N.

Steve, do you have an updated production time line? 

Paul


[/quote]

I have to build a unit for the Sonicweld room at CES now, so this puts the first production Overdrive after the new year, sorry.

I just built-up the first Substation board and I'm breaking it in.  Bass seems more solid now.  Doing panel design for it today.

Steve N.

[cryoparts]

Hi Everyone,

If you would like to hear the unit in action, "we", Sonicweld (www.sonicweld.com) and myself will be using Steve's new unit in room 31-119 at the Venetian.

Looking forward to using Steve's new DAC!

Peace,

Lee

I have to build a unit for the Sonicweld room at CES now, so this puts the first production Overdrive after the new year, sorry.

[wappinghigh]

Steve.

I still don't get it. In non tech terms, what is the difference between a floor-wart and a wall-wart?
And another thing, are you going to be able to power the overdrive with a battery supply? I'm still not clear on this!

Hope you don't mind the questions. AB

[audioengr]

Steve.

I still don't get it. In non tech terms, what is the difference between a floor-wart and a wall-wart?
And another thing, are you going to be able to power the overdrive with a battery supply? I'm still not clear on this!

Hope you don't mind the questions. AB

Floor Wart has an AC power cord like your laptop.  Wall-wart has no AC cord, only a DC cord.

Overdrive can be powered from the battery supply that I will offer in 2009.  First, it will come with the Substation.

Substation is working very well indeed.  Lots more weight and tighter bass now.

Steve N.

[audioengr]

Update 12/19/08:

The Overdrive fab 2 board first article is powered-up and working properly.  Lots of improved power delivery and cooling improvements as well as new power and ground-plane design.  It actually has holes milled in the PC board to allow convection cooling.  The parts are not running that hot now.  The distortion levels are much lower now as well with the compensation circuit installed.  This was not in the fab 1.

Unlike the older board, this one works fine in line-out mode as well as volume-control mode.  The line-out level is now at 1.8VRMS, so I need to up the gain to make it 2VRMS.  Also need to tweak the analog filter a little.  Once I have done these, I will select the resistors to set the 3 maximum output level settings for the volume control.  I had planned to have the maximum setting of the volume control be about half the amplitude of the line-outs, around 1VRMS and then two lower settings, which most customers will actually use.  The best scenerio if you remember, is to have the volume control almost maxxed-out to achieve comfortable listening levels.  This results in the best signal-to-noise ratio.

The output noise level is much lower now too.  The digital section is well-isolated from the analog section now.  Separate grounds and powers.

Next update will be listening tests.  Very exciting.

Steve N.

[audioengr]

Update 12/26/08:

Line output is now at 2VRMS and very clean.  About 10mV P-P (1mVRMS)  of noise when no signal present.  Still tweaking the volume control settings.

Listening through my preamp from the RCA outs in line-out mode is a revelation.  Only a few hours of break-in and no Superclock installed yet.  Most musical and detailed DAC I've heard.  Very 3-dimensional.  Also changed the I/V op-amps to AD797's.  Very smooth and yet the dynamics are simply killer.  Classical pieces with creshendos that were shrill before are very smooth now, and it begs me to listen to the entire piece.  Kettle-drums have gut-impact now.  Vocalists have meat to them. And this is through my preamp.  The version 1 did not sound that good through the preamp.  This one sounds better through the preamp than the first version did direct to the amps.  Can't wait to hear it direct.

I would be listening to the balanced outs and using the volume control, but I accidently fried one of the op-amps and I'm out.  More on order.

Steve N.

[Steelman]

Hi Steve:

I am a regular on www.computeraudiophile.com and have been noodling on DACs in general, and your Empirical Audio products in particular, over the past six months.  Your Overdrive looks like a great option at a competitive price. 

As I listen to only two sources (macbook pro & sansui receiver with a built-in volume knob) I would love to throw out my preamp.  I know a similar question was asked, but mine has a twist; could you envision a potential analog rca in/out option, WITHOUT volume control? 

It just seems like such a waste to use a preamp only to switch between the macbook and sansui!

Thanks,

Steelman

[audioengr]

Hi Steve:

I am a regular on www.computeraudiophile.com and have been noodling on DACs in general, and your Empirical Audio products in particular, over the past six months.  Your Overdrive looks like a great option at a competitive price. 

As I listen to only two sources (macbook pro & sansui receiver with a built-in volume knob) I would love to throw out my preamp.  I know a similar question was asked, but mine has a twist; could you envision a potential analog rca in/out option, WITHOUT volume control? 

It just seems like such a waste to use a preamp only to switch between the macbook and sansui!

Thanks,

Steelman

I would like to do an outboard A/D, essentially the opposite of my Off-Ramp3.  This would allow some analog inputs to be digitized and then this could feed the I2S input on the Overdrive with good results.  Then you can use Overdrive with or without the volume control.  This inverse Off-Ramp 3 (probably called "On-Ramp") could also be used to transfer vinyl or tape to digital.  This project is a low priority at this time though.  More important things are:  battery supplies for Off-Ramp 3, Pace-Car 2 and Overdrive DAC.

Steve N.

[PLMONROE]

[/quote]

I would like to do an outboard A/D, essentially the opposite of my Off-Ramp3.  This would allow some analog inputs to be digitized and then this could feed the I2S input on the Overdrive with good results.  Then you can use Overdrive with or without the volume control.  This inverse Off-Ramp 3 (probably called "On-Ramp") could also be used to transfer vinyl or tape to digital.  This project is a low priority at this time though.  More important things are:  battery supplies for Off-Ramp 3, Pace-Car 2 and Overdrive DAC.

Steve N.


[/quote]

Steve, any practicality/possibility for a dual battery supply running both the Pace Car 2 and Overdrive DAC?

Paul

[Steelman]

Hi Paul:

If you are going the battery route, wouldn't it make sense to have two independent systems to maximize isolation?

S