Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 11774 times.

speedcenter

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 147
    • http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio
Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« on: 14 Oct 2003, 05:59 pm »
Last Friday Bruce came to my house to have a small shootout between his Odyssey tempest and my pretty highly modified Bottlehead Foreplay preamp (http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio/foreplay/foreplay.html). Since I moved from an SS pre (vintage Yamaha C85) to tubes, I figured there was no way an SS pre could deliver the smoothness and expansive sound stage that I am getting from the Foreplay. All the talk about tube gear by others who have moved that way would support that there's probably no way that a $1000 pre like the Tempest would come close to the Foreplay in these particular qualities. On top of that, Bruce's Tempest wasn't even fully broken in yet...

Bruce opened up the Tempest before we started listening, and there was a Torroid transformer in there that's about the size of what some power amps use these days  :mrgreen:  - definitely enough for a pre-amp.

Looking at the Alps volume pot (motorized for the remote control option)  I already started thinking that "hey, there's no way this thing will match my Foreplay, given I have a stepped attenuator with Vishay S102 boutique resistors in there, which at least in my recent preamp upgrades have made a huge difference in imaging and detail resolution.

So we listened to the Foreplay first - Telefunken tubes nicely warmed up - and a sound stage going well beyond the edge of my Magnepan speakers. After a while, we found a way to cram the Tempest into my cheap rack, placed it on nothing but a piece of MDF and an inner tube to isolate it from the ringing of the metal racks. Running the ICs from my CD player into the wrong inputs (AUX - never been used before), we listened only for a few minutes before Bruce realized that there has never been any burn-in on those inputs. So we swapped it to what he has been using, and tried again. Harshness was gone - sooooo gone! It was suddenly everything the Foreplay was: smooth, detailed, huuuuge sound stage, and there was more: bass - even more than what I have been tweaking from my Foreplay after extensive power supply tweaks and capacitor upgrades. The Tempest clearly kicked the Foreplay's butt in the low frequency range. It wasn't "boomy" - just plenty of control all the way down to the lowest ranges. We ran a few very bass heavy tracks, and even though I wasn't even sitting in the sweet spot at that time, I was able to tell that there was considerably more "umpf" in the low range than what I have been able to wring from the Foreplay design.

Detail and soundstage were just as good as with the tube pre. I was extremely impressed.  Now, I know the power supply in my Foreplay is the weak link, and there's a version No 02 on the drawing board waiting for a few cold winter nights to be soldered together, but I am starting to think that I may save myself a lot of hassle (and future tube replacement costs), by switching to the Tempest. Replacing that Alps pot with a high grade stepped attenuator may even elevate it into a class above of it's current performance level, since I know from my tube upgrades how much a high grade shunt stepped attenuator can do to the quality of the signal going into the preamp. I suppose I can start saving for a Tempest now, tweak it a little and see where things will go from there. Clearly, the Tempest is a great value, even without tweaks, given that a Foreplay built up like the one I have is frequently compared to $3000 tube gear with a brand name on the fancier case...

I'm posting this here, because I know if I go out on the Bottlehead forum, they'll call me a heretic  :evil:  

The Tempest clearly doens't get enough exposure on the forums - it definitely is as great a value as the Mono Xtremes (which we put to good use last Friday).


PS - disclaimer: maybe it was just due to the German beer and the high-fat Bratwurst diet that things sounded to us that way  :D

dawkimi

Tempest preamp
« Reply #1 on: 17 Oct 2003, 12:08 am »
Thanks for the review speedcenter.  Has anybody else had success with the Tempest in their system?  It seems the Tempest doesn't have the same "buzz" as the Stratos, but I would think there would be tremendous synergy with the Tempest / Stratos combo.  Any feedback would be appreciated.  Thanks for your time and attention.

Mike

zeke

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 342
Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #2 on: 17 Oct 2003, 05:58 am »
I am getting very good sounds with my Tempest in this system: Ah Tjoeb 99 cdp / Technics A10 DVD > Tempest > Sonograph Sa250 > GR Research Paradox 3's ..........  I also have a Stratos, but it is in this system : Audionote CD2 cdp > Bryston BP25 > Stratos > NFR R645's ......

I had the Tempest and the Stratos together for awhile, and that was a very good match also -----  but i personally felt that in the NFR system the Bryston gave a TAD more tighter bass and a TAD more detail --- but you had to listen very carefully to hear the minor differences.

It is possible that the Tempest wasn't fully broken in yet when i came to those conclusions. I will have to re-insert the Tempest to see if i still feel that way.

Regardless, the Tempest is a exellent preamp, and sounds great with other amps besides the Odyssey's ...........

Musky_Don

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #3 on: 17 Oct 2003, 07:30 pm »
Mike,

I have had a Tempest in my system for about a year (actually I have 2 of them, 1 with HT bypass).  I own both the Odyssey Mono Blocks and the upgraded Extreme version.  Great synergy (as you would expect) with the Odyssey amps.  Prior to receiving my Extremes, I experimented with the Tempest with a couple of different amplifier sources (amp section of my Denon 4800, Sunfire Cinema Grand, B&K Ref 2220 and the Odyssey Mono Blocks).  The Tempest made all of these amplifiers sound better than I had heard them previously.  In all cases, the sound was more detailed, had better control from highs to lows and had a better sense of air and space in the soundstage.  

As an FYI, the pre-amps I compared the Tempest to with the amps above are as follows: Denon 4800, Parasound Halo P3, B&K Ref 30, and an Anthem AVM 20.  The Anthem pre was the closest to the Tempest, but overall lacked the detail and musical warmth of the Tempest.  I did like the analog path on the Anthem better than the digital path for music.  

Considering the $$$s, I believe the Tempest is a huge value in the pre-amp market.  It has a very detailed soundstage and is very musical.  I can't think of an amplifier it would not pair well with.  A bigger concern might be speaker choice.  If your primary need is  music rather than HT, it’s hard to go wrong with the Tempest.  My HT system now has the Tempest/Odyssey Mono Blocks for the left/right (music) and the Denon/Odyssey left/right (movies) Denon/Denon center/rears (movies).  I had to make some trade-off on the HT side, but the system really shines when we use the room for gathering and listening to music.

Don

Musky_Don

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #4 on: 17 Oct 2003, 07:33 pm »
Peter,

Nice review.  I noticed you have a modded Cambridge Audio D500.  I have a D500SE and am curious as to what modifications you made.  I have not yet attempted an audio modification but the idea seems interesting.  I’d like to hear about the changes you made and the impact on the player.

Thanks,

Don

F-100

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #5 on: 17 Oct 2003, 08:13 pm »
I've the Tempest/Stratos for over 3 years now and couldn't be any happier with this combo. In my system, the Tempest sound just as good as the Kora Equinoxe tube preamp. Mind you that the list price for the Equinoxe is twice as much as the Tempest. That is why it didn't suprised me at all when it blew away the Bottlehead. It's just too bad that the Tempest doesn't get any recognition.

Doug_B

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 77
Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #6 on: 17 Oct 2003, 09:53 pm »
The Tempest does have a remote for the volume, correct? Always nice to have couch potato-friendly equipment.  :P

Doug

Christophe35

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 72
Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #7 on: 17 Oct 2003, 09:55 pm »
Quote from: F-100
I've the Tempest/Stratos for over 3 years now and couldn't be any happier with this combo. In my system, the Tempest sound just as good as the Kora Equinoxe tube preamp. Mind you that the list price for the Equinoxe is twice as much as the Tempest. That is why it didn't suprised me at all when it blew away the Bottlehead. It's just too bad that the Tempest doesn't get any recognition.


Hi, I have been interrested by a kora preamp in the past. Can you describe how the kora equinoxe sound compared to a tempest when match with a stratos ?

Christophe

F-100

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #8 on: 17 Oct 2003, 10:36 pm »
They both have similar sound signature with wide open soundstage, extremely detailed, smooth, and transparent.  The Equinoxe gives you a warmer sound, probably due to tube vs SS . However, the Tempest is dead quiet, no hiss, and never sound congested even at maximum volume level.

F-100

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #9 on: 17 Oct 2003, 10:50 pm »
Quote from: Doug_B
The Tempest does have a remote for the volume, correct?
Doug


Yes, but that is an optional feature, just as the HT bypass and dual ouputs.  Klaus can customize them in any way you want it as long as you got the $$ to pay him :-)

speedcenter

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 147
    • http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio
Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #10 on: 17 Oct 2003, 11:39 pm »
Quote from: F-100
That is why it didn't suprised me at all when it blew away the Bottlehead.


ahem - it didn't "blow it away" - except for the bass it was a pretty even match. For an SS pre, it sounds very tube-like, so much that one could swap them out and most tube folks woudln't notice it. That still doesn't mean it blew away the Foreplay.  It also costs more than twice as much as I have invested in my shoe box pre  :wink:

dawkimi

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #11 on: 18 Oct 2003, 04:53 am »
I appreciate everyone that took the time to post some feedback about the Tempest.  I have placed an order with Klaus for a Tempest and Stratos with cap upgrade.  Hopefully, these will be replacing the Musical Fidelity A300 integrated that I'm currently using with my modified Magnepan MG12s.  I'm anticipating this combination will take my system to the "next level".  If I like what I hear, I'll probably upgrade to the monos down the road.  Thanks again for all the feedback.  

Mike

F-100

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #12 on: 18 Oct 2003, 02:45 pm »
Speedcenter,
 
That is why it didn't suprised me at all even if it blew away the Bottlehead..

That is what I really mean :-) :-)

jackman

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #13 on: 18 Oct 2003, 02:53 pm »
Quote
That is why it didn't suprised me at all when it blew away the Bottlehead. It's just too bad that the Tempest doesn't get any recognition.


No offense, but if someone made these statements about the Stratos or Tempest or preferred the Bottlehead or any other product over the Tempest or Stratus we'd have to hear from the usual suspects from Odyssey squaking about "system synergy" and lack of sufficient 10,000+ or two years of breakin needed for the Odyssey gear to sound its best.  

I'm not saying the Tempest is not better than the Foreplay, however there appears to be a bit of a double standard.  Where are the "synergy is everything" folks?  Or is that only a factor when someone likes another product over the Stratos or Tempest?

Jman

Pirate

Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #14 on: 18 Oct 2003, 10:30 pm »
:scratch: Uh oh! There goes Jackman again :rotflmao:

BWentler

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 93
  • In Christ, we are all saved!
RE: Tempest
« Reply #15 on: 18 Oct 2003, 11:29 pm »
Quote from: Doug_B
The Tempest does have a remote for the volume, correct? Always nice to have couch potato-friendly equipment.  :P

Doug


I'm the Bruce that took his Tempest over to speedcenter's house.  The Tempest was purchased the with the following options:

1) Remote.
2) Second pair of outputs.
3) Silver faceplates (which match perfectly to my Extreme Mono's silver faceplates).

There is about 5 to 6 weeks of break in on the pre-amp and Klaus did state that I would take about 6 months to break-in completely.  So, it will be interested in doing another side-by-side listening session sometime in the late spring.

Speedcenter's Bottlehead was better in the front-to-back sound staging.  I have noticed this since day one when I compared it against my highly modified Melos MA-333 pre-amp.  This condition could be corrected in time as the unit becomes fully broken in.  Time will tell this but this could be just the difference between SS and Tubes and just can't be done.

I'm I happy/sad that I purchased it, HECK NO!!!  I would have needed to spend another $500 for just CAP upgrades to the MA-333/PS-1 unit to come close the smoothness and detail but not harshness that the Tempest had right out of the box!  Speedcenter spends quite a bit on very good and rare tubes that I need not do any more.

I'll be doing a review once a few more weeks/months are on the Tempest on both here and AudioReveiw.

Later...
Bruce J. Wentler

speedcenter

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 147
    • http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio
Tempest vs. Bottlehead Foreplay tube preamp
« Reply #16 on: 19 Oct 2003, 12:58 am »
Bruce,
thanks for backing me up here  :wink:

I just got a bag of Schottky diodes for my Foreplay filament power supply - can't stop tweakin'...