B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~

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-Richard-

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B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« on: 11 Nov 2007, 12:05 am »
Scorpion was kind enough to suggest the Eminence Alpha-15A as a good candidate for a subwoofer to integrate with the B200's in a 2-way OB... the results are fabulous but the path to this success was not straight.

Perhaps 2 years ago I purchased a 15" Hawthorne SI driver and had Jim McCarthy build me a baffle for them with good structural integrity: 23" wide by 36" high. It has a base and top and 3" "wings" that begin "inside" the baffle and meet the sides and attach top and bottom (they cannot be seen from the front). I no longer have the SI's so I had Jim turn the baffle upside down so that the 15" cut-out (hole) was now on the bottom. The B200's are centered over the 15" Alpha-15A's.

I am currently driving the B200's with the Korneff 45 SET (2.5 watt) tube amp and Peppard Magic 5 tube preamp. The Alpha's are driven by a 6 watt integrated Single Ended Pentode tube amp with tone controls. I am using a simple inductor on the Alpha's to cut them off above 270Hz with a -6db per octave fade.

The B200's never sounded this good... never... I think it is because of the greater rigidity of this baffle. The Alpha's driven by the SEP amp sounded a bit soft with an indistinct "tonal" presence. Still... I was amazed at the "potential" this combination suggested.

I remembered reading an article on 6 moon's written by Jeff Day about his positive experiences with a DIY speaker cable project using an outdoor electrical cord... he raved about its tone rising to ever juicier adjectives to explain how much in love with them he was. I decided to try it myself and picked one up at my not-so-local Walmart.

I cut and stripped the electrical cord and inserted the pair of the now speaker cables into the B200's. The sound did not thrill me. It was so articulate on top that it was like finger nails on a school black-board. It did not take me long to identify the problem as my cheapy CD player... just not enough resolution up there to allow these incredibly articulate cables to bring out all the resolution the B200's are capable of... the sound? the B200's sounded like Lowthers or the growing crop of French field-coil drivers... super super articulate, fast... but as Deborah pointed out almost immediately... the incredible spatial depth and ambient "presence" that the B200 serve-up with such pleasure using cheapy Lowes "speaker cable" wire was all but gone.

Then it hit me that these "cables" could tighten up the Alpha-15A's driven by the SEP and so in they went using the 4.70 copper coil inductor. I went back to using the Lowes cheapy 16 gauge copper wire for the B200's.

That did it... the Alpha's now sound amazingly articulate on the bottom end... the lower frequency tone is clean and musical. With this combination the Alpha-15's... which have the same sensitivity as the B200's... 96-97db's is a perfect match.

The sound I am getting now is fabulous... rich tonally, deep resonate spatial "presence", incredible immediacy, instrumental color and texture that rivals the real-thing and something more. There is now a sense of "totality"... both Deb and I feel that something "whole" and "complete" musically is taking place with every recording... something deeply satisfying... and the all-over effect is very relaxing... for the first time we are experiencing a great calm... a calm has descended over the music that renders it profoundly easy to listen to... and that in spite of the tremendous dynamics released within the music.

For us our search has ended. I have never experienced this level of musical "perfection" before. The thrill is there... with every kind of music. And it is very nice to be able to dial-in just the right amount of bass needed for each piece and for each occasion... late night listening demands discretion... but this OB system sounds just as convincing when played modestly.

The cost of the 2> B200's and Alpha-15A's was $380... I worked out the cost of the baffles with Jim by trading skills. The "cables" combined is less then $20. Those shockingly cheap prices have allowed me to splurge on amps and preamps.

I notice that there is a trend among designers to use 2> 15" woofers with their 8" wide-range drivers. I cannot imagine that would be at all necessary in the intimate setting of most homes. The one Alpha-15A's per baffle is very convincing.

I have gone for most of the over 2 years I have owned and worked with the B200's without a bass driver... trying here and there different kinds of subwoofer combinations. This works perfectly.

I tried the inductor/resistor on the B200's to tame the rise and help to flatten the midbass response... I found it killed that ripe sense of "presence" and space that I love so much and that helps deliver the musical experience to a startling level of realism.

I am just sharing my latest experiences with my OB's. Thanks Scorpion for your excellent suggestion of using the Alpha-15A's... at $60 each it is a very-easy-to-live-with cost solution to "finish" the integration of the bass with the B200's.

If anyone is suffering from budget issues like we are... here is a solution that will truly amaze you... assuming of course that your amplifiers are sympathetic.

What a fabulous resource this OB forum is. Thank you all for your continued help and generous sharing. Thanks to all of you, my home musical experiences are where I never dreamed it could go.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard
« Last Edit: 11 Nov 2007, 05:00 am by -Richard- »

lonewolfny42

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #1 on: 11 Nov 2007, 07:19 am »
Richard....

Its nice to see your journey has come to an end.....
and you and Deb can enjoy the music !!! Happy listening.... :thumb:

                              Chris

-Richard-

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #2 on: 11 Nov 2007, 09:02 am »
Thanks Chris ~

The amount of speaker choices presented by the commercial audio world is staggering... and there are several speaker paradigms... horns, electrostatics, planars, boxed speakers galore, ribbons, open baffles... and within each paradigm there are numerous variations in speaker design... not to mention variations in materials used to build the drivers themselves... each design strategy calls for our attention and promises musical riches.

I have learned how to "listen" by going the Open Baffle DIY path... and using the Viston B200's as the "constant" in my design explorations with their 96db sensitivity opened the door to low power amps... I was finally able to enter the esoteric world of the Single Ended Triode tube amp... which was a parallel journey for me unfolding at the same time as I explored design considerations for my OB's.

I have learned to look behind the hype of the commercial audio world with its emphasis on expensive audio toys and for the most part underperforming recommendations. They have tried to make audio an elitist "hobby" by charging a great deal of money for the underwhelming products they offer and the use of "snazzy" industrial designs to lure in the rich and those attracted to the hobbies of the rich... by using a quasi-scientific jargon to purposefully sound inscrutable... and by creating a "salon" atmosphere of snobbish rude sales people in the audio stores. It worked... for awhile... until a few really visionary people started audio forums like Audio Circle where we could create a community of like-interested people who are willing to help each other find out what things work or do not work and how they work... and to furnish each other with other important information and feedback.

I have learned a great deal in the 3 years I have been involved in AC.

Now I can concentrate on finding music I want to add to my collection and look into the world of large screen front projectors to view the endless parade of films Deb and I watch (we do not watch TV) thanks to netflicks. At least I can start to save money for one.

Warm Regards ~ Richard

lonewolfny42

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #3 on: 11 Nov 2007, 09:07 am »
Thats right Richard....the main purpose to own audio equipment....its all about the music !!! :thumb:

And there's much to hear....enjoy. :dance:

scorpion

Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #4 on: 11 Nov 2007, 03:31 pm »
Sounds great, Richard !

We shall be grateful to MJK putting forward the Alpha 15, his simulation models give very accurate predictions of real life performance !  :D

/Erling

Michael V

Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #5 on: 12 Nov 2007, 05:07 pm »
Richard,

Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I am running basically the same arrangement, only with the Hawthorne SI woofer instead of the Alpha 15.  I think it's a great combination too!

First, what are the dimensions of your baffle?

Second, you mentioned you used the SI.  Are you able to compare the bass response from the SI to the Alpha 15?  And, why did you decide not to continue down the Hawthorne path? 

Also, have you considered using your 45 amp to drive the full speaker system?  You may be pushing the limits of 2.5W, but I think it's definitely worth trying.  Bi-amping opens up a LOT of options, but in my experience you always lose something. 

I assume that the passive 200hz HP is part of why you're bi-amping, which does make sense.  But, it seems to me that the B200 is such a robust driver that it shouldn't have a problem seeing the deep bass.  I could see that a HP would be unavoidable with a little Fostex, but the Visaton is just a tough driver.  Instead, I think the acoustic rolloff of the B200 (on an appropriately small baffle) seems to match well with the first order coil on the Alpha.  Unfortunately I don't yet understand the math to calculate the ideal dimensions.

All the best,
Mike


miklorsmith

Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #6 on: 12 Nov 2007, 05:17 pm »
Nice, Richard!  Intrepid adventurers always find the juciest goods.

Total side note - I just sold my Definition Pros and have my TNT Big Fun Boxes newly stuffed with Omega's first generation 8" hemp drivers sitting in the main system.  Result?  More similar than different.  In fact, it's hard to believe how killer they are.

There's a LOT of magic in those 8" paper drivers.

-Richard-

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #7 on: 12 Nov 2007, 08:02 pm »
Hi Michael V ~

First, what are the dimensions of your baffle?

23" wide by 36" high, 3/4" maple plywood, the rim of the B200's rest on a mortised edge so that they are flush with the front of the baffle, the Alpha-15A's are screwed to a rim of mdf board that is itself screwed to the back of the baffle so that a front wave guide is created from the set-back of the Alpha-15A.

Second, you mentioned you used the SI.  Are you able to compare the bass response from the SI to the Alpha 15?  And, why did you decide not to continue down the Hawthorne path?

I was one of the first to purchase an SI coaxial driver... which we know is essentially a modified 15" Eminence woofer mid-range with a tweeter. The cross-overs were not well implemented for these first iterations which compromised the potential of the SI's to sound their best. Darrel has since revised the cross-over and he feels it is a very different sound then what I heard. Also, and perhaps most important in my "take" of the SI at that time, was the simple fact that I was used to the phenomenal speed of the B200's. The SI's did not seem to have that level of transparency, but that could have been the cross-over issue working against the SI's potential. Darrel now has an entirely new coaxial driver that apparently is state-of-the-art... but it is not cheap... the price is close to field-coil territory.

Also, have you considered using your 45 amp to drive the full speaker system?  You may be pushing the limits of 2.5W, but I think it's definitely worth trying.  Bi-amping opens up a LOT of options, but in my experience you always lose something.

The combination of Peppard's Magic 5 preamplifier which has a high gain option and the Korneff 45 SET amplifier easily drives the B200's and Alpha-15A's hooked-up in parallel... they both have a high 97db sensitivity... I tried that before I inserted a separate amp for the Alpha's.

I assume that the passive 200hz HP is part of why you're bi-amping, which does make sense. 

Not just that... the integrated Single Ended Pentode amp I am using allows me to dial-in the amount of gain for the Alpha's and it has bass tone controls which gives me yet another level of control. We are talking about subtle effects here but it is uncanny how much it affects the "perception" of the all-over quality of sound.

But, it seems to me that the B200 is such a robust driver that it shouldn't have a problem seeing the deep bass. 

I am not entirely certain I understand what you are referring to here.

I could see that a HP would be unavoidable with a little Fostex, but the Visaton is just a tough driver.  Instead, I think the acoustic rolloff of the B200 (on an appropriately small baffle) seems to match well with the first order coil on the Alpha.  Unfortunately I don't yet understand the math to calculate the ideal dimensions.

Are you suggesting that no passive EQ (inductor) is necessary for the Alpha's? Of course that is entirely dependent on the sound one is trying to achieve... for example my cross-over point of 275Hz is higher than most (DIY) designers would find acceptable... it probably creates a sort of fattening of the frequency gamut between perhaps 180Hz and 275Hz which sounds quite nice to me... the British like to introduce that hump into many of their speaker designs because it favors the voice.

If I did not capture the gist of what you are pointing to, please help me to understand exactly what you mean.

Hi Scorpion ~ Thanks for noting that it was MJK who did the "homework" on the Alpha... thanks MJK for your generousity in sharing your vital experience with us.

Hi Lonewolfny ~ You are very kind to offer your congratulations and support... it is always such a pleasure to read your posts and know you are there.

Hi Miklorsmith ~ Please let me congratulate you!!!!!! I have looked at the TNT Big Fun Boxes many times and wondered how they might fit into my life! The buzz about them is rather legendary... so nice that you actually have a pair to live with. You seem to have a knack for acquiring some marvelous audio legends. I am looking forward to your in-depth experiences with Vinnie's new Signature 70.2 monoblocks... I am still saving money for my upgrade... lucky you!!!

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

miklorsmith

Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #8 on: 12 Nov 2007, 09:10 pm »
Legend might be going a bit far, but thanks.    :D  I will say they are most un-boxy sounding.  I built mine with a slanted front baffle which was a pain to build but works great to utilize floor reinforcement in the bass and still "aim" the driver at the listener.

They are ugly critters but solid as a tank.  I stuffed the box around the driver to further minimize back wave energy.  I have speaker wires soldered directly to the driver, so it's amp-direct - no interceding anything.



Let's say I have the utmost respect for real cabinet guys.

This photo shows with the Fostex 206E which was recently replaced by the Omega driver.  I picked mine up used.  I asked Louis a while back if I could buy some from him, but he said the drivers were OEM only.  I don't know if this has changed, I hope so because they are tailor made for this easy BR box.

Anybody interested in the single driver idea wanting to try it out, I wholly recommend this as a starting point.  In fact, that's exactly what I did with these very boxes.  These speakers changed everything for me.  OB is cool, but not everyone has the space or room allowance to do it.  A sheet of mdf or plywood, a little sweat equity and a pair of drivers and that's it - they punch WAY above their price class.

Sorry for the detour, Richard.   :oops:

ecramer

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #9 on: 12 Nov 2007, 10:05 pm »
tnt big fun box
45 litre Box whats the dimensions on that box i hit a wall trying to figure box sizes volumes

-Richard-

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #10 on: 12 Nov 2007, 10:27 pm »
Hi Miklorsmith ~

Please feel free to share whatever news, information and insights you have about anything audio.

Your new TNT Big Fun Box speakers look awesome!!!!!!

Being able to ensconce those formidable speakers in your listening room, I am not entirely sure what you mean by not having enough room for OB's... my OB's even with the addition of the Alpha's are quite modest at being 23" wide by 36" high and the "back" area is only 1ft. or so.

Of course if you are working with the single driver paradigm... pursuing a "purist" approach... and I mean that in the best sense possible... as an entirely worthwhile and high level of aesthetics... then I would more than agree with you... I used the B200's alone for most of the time I worked with them and I really liked the idea of one driver doing everything.

Did you ever try the Voight Pipe design? Dan Mason thought very highly of it and suggested I try it... I just have not gotten around to it... also a cheap DIY solution and small footprint... he felt the sound was beguiling.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

miklorsmith

Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #11 on: 12 Nov 2007, 10:39 pm »
I started a different thread to discuss the BFBs.  They're just stained mdf - they look much better in the photo than they do in person.  The banana paper color of the 206 is a nice compliment to the brown, they look much uglier with the Omega driver.

I built these boxes about 4 years ago, which led to my discovery of Zu.  One of the things that's good about the port loading is it might be able to balance out the tonality so one driver could be enough to fill in the bass.

Wow, I thought you needed more back wave space to do OB.  Coolness.

I haven't heard the Voigt Pipes.  The best known example would be the C&C Abby, correct?

JeffB

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #12 on: 12 Nov 2007, 11:57 pm »
I currently have a similar setup.
A B200 on top and a 15" warrior on the bottom.  It is an 18" wide baffle.
I have an ancient MTX electronic car crossover hooked to a 12V battery that I am using as a crossover.
It has potentiometers for crossover frequency and volume.  I am not sure what the cross-over slopes are or how accurate
the frequency labeling is on the potentiometers.
In my experimenting I have set the high pass cross-over on the B200 at 60Hz and the low-pass cross-over on the 15" at 150Hz.
As odd as these frequencies seem, I believe they are the perfect combination.
If I increase the frequency of the high-pass cross-over there is a noticeable fall-off in mid-bass response.  This surprises me as I was expecting significant response drop due to the narrow baffle.  That is I didn't expect such a low setting to have any effect over a setting around 120Hz, but it does.  If I decrease the low-pass cross-over, I also notice a fall-off in mid bass response.  If I increase the low-pass filter I notice a muddying in the mid-bass region due to the two drivers having too much overlap.  If I try to increase the frequency of both the high-pass and low-pass, I still seem to lose something in the mid-bass.  It just seems like that B200 is best if run as low as possible.  I could really take the high-pass off of it all together, but it seems pointless to try and drive it lower.  The B200 seems much faster than the Warrior 15".  That is in mid-bass cross-over region where they start to overlap, the B200 is more articulate.  I want to get a Behringer DCX 2496 so that I can more accurately play with these settings and get measurements with a microphone. 
I really like the bass from the Warrior 15".  The Alphas might be even better, but there is just something about the open baffle bass that seems right.
However, I would like more impact.  I am not sure how to get more impact.  Another pair of 15", a bigger amp, a better amp, a smaller room, deeper bass? 
I think for my music, heavy metal, that deeper bass is not the issue.  And since a smaller room isn't too practical I think maybe more drivers is what I need.
The amp driving the 15s is a 110Watt JVC RX-D201 digital/hybrid.

-Richard-

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #13 on: 13 Nov 2007, 01:23 am »
Hi Miklorsmith ~

Sorry for the confusion... my fault... I meant that the actual depth of the baffle was only 1 foot or so from the front of the baffle to the back... my OB's are about 22" from the inside edge to the back wall and 29" from the outside edge to the back wall on a toe-in configuration. I found that bringing them further into the room did nothing for the sound... in terms of where my interests lie. And it keeps our living space tidy.

Hi JeffB ~

I currently have a similar setup.

Nice!!!!!

In my experimenting I have set the high pass cross-over on the B200 at 60Hz and the low-pass cross-over on the 15" at 150Hz.

That seems like a nice configuration... and confirmed directly by your experimentation and careful listening.

As odd as these frequencies seem, I believe they are the perfect combination.

One should factor-in the amplification in this regard... I am certain the characteristics of ones amp could easily influence the "perception" of how your drivers interact with each other and that might be at play here.

I want to get a Behringer DCX 2496 so that I can more accurately play with these settings and get measurements with a microphone.

Some users claim the Behringer does not affect the integrity of the signal as it passes through it... others point out that you are passing the signal through several *cheap op-amps (*price points in the building and marketing niche). What I found in experimenting with EQ devices is that there is a price to pay for sound shaping... loss of sensitivity of the signal being just one of them... and it is possible to "clip" the signal if too much frequency changes are applied. But since almost everyone universally praises there affect on the signal why not try it? However, I am always disappointed by these kinds of EQ shaping devices... they tend to skim-off some ambient "spatial" sound that I find so important in my sense of the "real".

I really like the bass from the Warrior 15".  The Alphas might be even better, but there is just something about the open baffle bass that seems right. However, I would like more impact. 

I take Deborah's sense of what is musical very seriously... we are partners in audio selections and listening to music. Deb hates "impact" bass and feels it is unmusical. I agree with her. This is just personal taste mind you. Most of the music we listen too is served quite well with the low 40Hz Alpha's... lower than that and our home resonates... and worse... the neighbors can hear it as well. Most of the time a "suggestion" of bass is enough to carry the intention of the music to a convincing level of enjoyment... I am listening for the "total" musical sense... and so I am not particularly interested in the frequency "extremes". There is something that my "brain" needs to hear in order to be convinced that I am listening to a musical performance that seems live... that is... alive!!!! and that is a palpable immediacy and fullness of presentation both harmonically and texturally... a sense that everything is there that was meant to be there. Of course one can always find something to tweak... to get "more" out of ones set-up... if you have the time and energy why not?

But I am satisfied that something in the musical presentation seems full... rich... alive... that sense of complexity is there when the composer wanted you to hear it... and also that sense of ease that makes listening to music such a delight.

Warm Regards ~ Richard
« Last Edit: 13 Nov 2007, 04:30 am by -Richard- »

JeffB

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #14 on: 13 Nov 2007, 02:49 am »
I have been at many heavy metal concerts where the kick-drum slams you in the chest with every kick.  It doesn't sound boomy or exaggerated either.
It just hits you in the most powerful way.  Perhaps it is just the shear volume at the shows.  I don't exactly desire this at home.  I don't want to listen that loud, I don't want to annoy the neighbors.  However, I have never felt even the faintest touch from a woofer or subwoofer in a home-audio setting no matter how loud.  Sure a subwoofer has a certain kind of impact when it is loud, but is a very different thing.  I feel the typical home audio bass impact and the live concert bass impact are so many miles apart, that I can't help but feel something is missing from home audio equipment in this regard.  I have felt some amount of impact from two 10's in a car.  There is something about the extremely small volume of air in a car that allows this to happen.  To some extent it also happens at night clubs.  4 15s in a ported cabinets over a small dance floor at really high volume can make this happen.  I have a hypothesis right now that more bass drivers are needed or a smaller room is needed to increase this impact.  I only mention it because of the early comment about other people using 2 15s per speaker.  I am tempted to try it, but have no idea if it will actually change the impact.  I can easily see how this sound is not for everyone.
I really kind of think it is a heavy metal thing.  The bigger the sound the better.  I once saw the Scorpions at Universal in LA.  Mathias Jabs at the end of his solo gets some kind of feedback distortion going between his guitar and amps.  It is essentially pure noise.  It would have been as irritating as possible except for one thing.  That distortion in that room coupled the air like nothing I have ever felt before.  The whole ampitheatre shook.  There was just something about the way the bass reverberated, it was electric, it was awesome.  Something that I am certain will never be recreated in a living room.  I think they just have a whole bunch of 15s in ported cabs.  Maybe 18s.

-Richard-

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #15 on: 13 Nov 2007, 04:52 am »
Hi JeffB ~

OK... I see what you mean... you want to know if it is possible to reproduce that visceral level of bass impact in the home that could in some way replicate what you hear at live concerts.

I once read an article by Sam Tellig in Stereophile, where he wondered out-loud whether it was appropriate to play large symphonic works in a home stereo system... yes, I know... that would limit our listening experiences to small ensemble musical offerings... or at least, small orchestral works... like the Baroque "orchestra" as opposed to the nineteenth century full orchestra, with its huge segments of similar instruments that can create a huge sound that in the concert hall has the potential to wash over us with a profound immersion of sound.

I think that question might apply to your situation as well... it might not be entirely appropriate to try and reproduce a level of visceral sound that works so effectively in the live concert, at home... simply because that level of sound requires one's system to shift from being able to play a nuanced, intimate musical presentation to one of sheer musical muscle.

For me it is the intimacy of music that captures my emotional inner life and opens me up to the inner vibrations that inform me that I am really alive.

However, your exploration into whether or not it is possible to at least achieve some level of replication of that visceral bass sound you experienced, just might lead you to discover a more potent application of OB bass drivers that everyone could benefit from... so I say why not go deeper into this and see what you discover!!!!!

Thanks for sharing, JeffB. Please keep us informed of your discoveries.

Warm Regards ~ Richard


Michael V

Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #16 on: 13 Nov 2007, 02:38 pm »
Richard,

Thanks for sharing the details of your baffle.  Great minds think alike....my LP crossover on the bass is 250hz, and my current baffles are of similar size (20x36). 

To clarify my last post - I was not suggesting omitting the LP on the Alpha; rather, omitting the HP on the B200.  I see from one of your recent posts that you have a 60hz HP filter, which is probably below what the baffle step roll-off is doing.  So, have you tried running the Visatons fullrange (without any filters)?

Hope this makes more sense.

Regards
Mike

JeffB

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #17 on: 13 Nov 2007, 05:45 pm »
Actually it was me with the 60Hz high-pass.
I too thought this would be well below my 18" baffles roll-off, but increasing the cutoff point is actually audible as a midbass dropout. 
So there is information down lower.  It might be significantly rolled off, but I find I like it.
I have actually connected without the high-pass at all.  I am not sure if there is a noticeable difference between a 60Hz high pass and no filter.
Unfortunately for me my loaner preamp is now gone and I need the volume pot on my cross-over for the B200 so I have to run it through the high-pass filter at the moment.  The previous configuration where I could skip the filter all together was a different enough setup for me to be unsure of the exact result.
I think there are benefits to limiting the excursion of the B200 and benefits in not taxing my 6 watt clari-t.  Whether these outway a filter in the signal path I don't know.

Michael V

Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #18 on: 13 Nov 2007, 06:45 pm »
Thanks Jeff.  I will try a cap on my B200 at some point, though I admit I'm skeptical!

Are those Warrior 15's still available?  I thought I read they were sold out...

JeffB

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Re: B200 and Eminence Alpha-15A report ~
« Reply #19 on: 13 Nov 2007, 07:57 pm »
Here is the link to the Warrior 15.  They are $45 each right now.
http://www.shredmuzic.com/product_p/813-021.htm

This link has many other woofer selections.
http://www.shredmuzic.com/category_s/47.htm

I got mine for about $20 last year as they came out of a damaged cabinet.
At that price I couldn't pass up running the experiment.
I always wonder if perhaps the Eminence Alpha 15s sound better.
For the moment though I am happy.