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[TurboFC3S]

Maybe you've addressed it somewhere, but I'm wondering how this would compare to a full-on Bolder Modded SB3.  Why go one route or another?

[audioengr]

Maybe you've addressed it somewhere, but I'm wondering how this would compare to a full-on Bolder Modded SB3.  Why go one route or another?

Mods to the SB3 will NOT equal the performance of the Pace-Car reclocker.  Besides, the advantage is that you dont need any performance mods to the SB3, just the clock cable/connector.  The jitter from the SB3 or the Sonos does not matter.  The Pace-Car reclocker ignores it anyway.  It only uses the data.

If I were to put an I2S output interface on the SB3 and a Superclock4 inside, this might come close, but you would need a really good power supply as well or battery power.  It would also cost more, take more of my time and end-up more fragile.  It is just more optimal to do it in a product that is totally under my control, the Pace-Car, rather than doing extensive mods to an existing product.  It's just cleaner and the result is superior. 

The power supply, the signal paths, the transmission-lines and the devices used all insure an excellent result in the Pace-Car.  To try to do even a partial of this inside the SB3 would end-up in a lot of compromises and non-ideal signal integrity.  There are no such compromises in the Pace-Car.  It uses a hand layed-out 4-layer board with multiple levels of voltage regulation, lots of isolation techniques and the very best quality parts. The parts cost is almost $600.

The Pace-Car can be battery powered too and this is even better.

Steve N.

[krikor]

This is probably a dumb questions but I'll ask anyway

With the SB3 getting its 16/44.1 clock from the Pace Car, I assume that it will only play files that are 16/44.1 ... correct?


Reason I ask is that I do have some 24/48 files that I sometimes play through the SB3.

[audioengr]

This is probably a dumb questions but I'll ask anyway

With the SB3 getting its 16/44.1 clock from the Pace Car, I assume that it will only play files that are 16/44.1 ... correct?


Reason I ask is that I do have some 24/48 files that I sometimes play through the SB3.

That is correct.  It is possible to put two master clocks to the SB3, but really messy mounting the connectors and routing the coax inside.  It is just too tight in there.  I would rather not do it.  Maybe for a Transporter.

Steve N.

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Hi Steve,
How about a I2S input for a Panny receiver ? I really want to avoid a DAC, preamp, I/Cs and power supply for these etc. (I find these things boring to deal with nowadays) . I now have a Bolder digital mod for my SB3 with the modded Elpac supply going into a Panny digital input. This biamps my Silverline Sonatina speakers.

[audioengr]

Hi Steve,
How about a I2S input for a Panny receiver ? I really want to avoid a DAC, preamp, I/Cs and power supply for these etc. (I find these things boring to deal with nowadays) . I now have a Bolder digital mod for my SB3 with the modded Elpac supply going into a Panny digital input. This biamps my Silverline Sonatina speakers.

It is possible to make a simple wired I2S like this work, but there is a major risk with big pops and even DC voltage to your speakers if you pull the USB cable or power-down the Pace-Car accidently during music playback.  This is why my other I2S interfaces for DEQX, Benchmark DAC-1 and Spoiler all have protection muting.  They are not simply wiring.

In order to provide I2S muting for your Panny, I would have to design a custom board.  Very expensive.

Steve N.

[fu_man]

Steve,

Mods to the SB3 will NOT equal the performance of the Pace-Car reclocker.  Besides, the advantage is that you don't need any performance mods to the SB3, just the clock cable/connector.

 

so.... would a modified battery powered SB3,  with  Pacecar added,  sound  better than an unmodded  SB3  with pacecar?

Also, you  were thinking of  getting the pace car  working with an Olive, has  this progressed?   Do you rate one better that the other? (SB vs Olive)

I have upgraded my speakers and now  suspect my wireless modified battery powered SB3 is my  weak point.  Using a  valve  amp seems to smooth everything out - I  think  maybe  it  compensates  a  bit  of the harshness  from the digital transport?
(using an EA modified Ack! Dack)

[audioengr]

Steve,
so.... would a modified battery powered SB3,  with  Pacecar added,  sound  better than an unmodded  SB3  with pacecar?

Everything coming out of the Pace-Car sounds identical, no matter how bad the jitter is going in.

Also, you  were thinking of  getting the pace car  working with an Olive, has  this progressed?   Do you rate one better that the other? (SB vs Olive)

Yes, I will be getting one of the new Olives in the next two days.  Again the output from the Pace-Car will be identical to a SB3, AirPort Express etc.. all identical.

I have upgraded my speakers and now  suspect my wireless modified battery powered SB3 is my  weak point.  Using a  valve  amp seems to smooth everything out - I  think  maybe  it  compensates  a  bit  of the harshness  from the digital transport?
(using an EA modified Ack! Dack)

Most tube designs have HF roll-off and compression at the highs.  This will tend to mask the effects of HF jitter, but cause loss of HF content.  It is a band-aid IMO.  You can have your cake and eat it too.  HF extension without harshness.  (BTW, my Spoiler DAC suffers from none of these - very unconstrained with good HF extension)

The Pace-Car can do this for you, providing you dont have other sources of sibilance, such as poor silver IC's or poor S/PDIF cables or poor preamp.

Steve N.

[kbuzz3]

Maybe you've addressed it somewhere, but I'm wondering how this would compare to a full-on Bolder Modded SB3.  Why go one route or another?

im contemplating this very issue right now. Although my dac does not have an I2S input.  (meitner Bitstream) From perusing the forums, i think it appears that Steve reccomends a dac with such input

"Yes, in order to really take advantage of the low jitter of the Pace-Car, you need a DAC with I2S input.  The modded Benchmark DAC-1 is a great choice because it supports all sample-rates without upsampling and has balanced outputs as well as SE."

[audioengr]

Maybe you've addressed it somewhere, but I'm wondering how this would compare to a full-on Bolder Modded SB3.  Why go one route or another?

im contemplating this very issue right now. Although my dac does not have an I2S input.  (meitner Bitstream) From perusing the forums, i think it appears that Steve reccomends a dac with such input

"Yes, in order to really take advantage of the low jitter of the Pace-Car, you need a DAC with I2S input.  The modded Benchmark DAC-1 is a great choice because it supports all sample-rates without upsampling and has balanced outputs as well as SE."

I would not worry too much about I2S.  It is better, but hugely.  My S/PDIF output from the Pace-Car is really excellent also.  I would be more concerned about your DAC.  I know it is an expensive one, and greatly reviewed, BUT I believe ANY of my DAC's will outperform it, I2S or not.

Steve N.

[capo]

I have a Pace-Car with the Squeezebox.  I am using the SPDIF out for now.  The Pace-Car is terrific, the best "transport" I've had.  I had high expectations for this product, and my expectations were met and exceeded.  So I would say definitely go for it if you have an SPDIF DAC.

I do plan to try I2S, and I wouldn't have purchased a Pace-Car if it didn't have that capability, but the SPDIF out is really good.

[oris98]

Hi Capo,

Which DAC are you using ?  Do you have any mod to your SB3 ?  How do your new setup with peace car compared with the the SB3 only setup in sonic signatures ?  I am contemplating about the peace car but not sure how much really better than my RWA digital out with battery to my EA modded DAC with opamp 627 upgraded ?   I am also thinking of getting the I2S mod too..    Can you share some of your experience with us with your peace car added to your setup ? 

Thanks.

[kbuzz3]

i would appreciate further info as well.  Im contemplating the SB> to pace car>to dac v. a transporter...

[fu_man]

RWA digital out with battery to my EA modded DAC

Oh yeah...same bro!

Oris 98 what is the  DAC you use? mine is an EA mod  Ack!dack.  I've  been dreaming of a  pacecar too  but not sure    what  sampling  rate  I would  want to decide upon.  Straight  forward for the   SB  but  thinking of   future  compatibility....  plus other  thinks are  brewing...
(BTW:  does "oris98"  give a  clue  to  what   speakers yo  are using?)

[capo]

Guys,

I'll get my thoughts together and try to post more tomorrow.

Here is my current system:  http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/4436.html

Bill

[oris98]

I am using the EA Tubro mod Benchmark DAC1 with OPA627 opamps.   Some how I just don't want to waste the RWA mod already done to this unit.   If I go for the peac car, I may just get a Transport (stock) and go with it. Since the Transport can stream 24/96, i should be able to play HDTT (High Def Tape Transfer music).  At the present time, I cannot play music that I downloaded from HDTT web site.  I have heard music from HDTT with 24/96, it sound so much better than red book CD for sure.  Another option is to Duet from Logitech.  As Steve pointed out, any digital source goes into peace car the sonic qty will be the same on the output end.  But not sure the DUET will support 24/96 ? 

Anyone can play HDTT music with their SB3 ?   Any one plan to get the I2S interface mod for you DAC ?  Just wondering how much better will be between I2S vs Spdif output from SB3 ?  Is it justify to spend that extra $500 for my DAC1 ?

Speakers ?  No, I use Egglestons Works Fortaine II.  Beatiful speakers and sounded sooo.. good !

[audioengr]

I am using the EA Tubro mod Benchmark DAC1 with OPA627 opamps.   Some how I just don't want to waste the RWA mod already done to this unit.   If I go for the peac car, I may just get a Transport (stock) and go with it. Since the Transport can stream 24/96, i should be able to play HDTT (High Def Tape Transfer music).  At the present time, I cannot play music that I downloaded from HDTT web site.  I have heard music from HDTT with 24/96, it sound so much better than red book CD for sure.  Another option is to Duet from Logitech.  As Steve pointed out, any digital source goes into peace car the sonic qty will be the same on the output end.  But not sure the DUET will support 24/96 ? 

Anyone can play HDTT music with their SB3 ?   Any one plan to get the I2S interface mod for you DAC ?  Just wondering how much better will be between I2S vs Spdif output from SB3 ?  Is it justify to spend that extra $500 for my DAC1 ?

Speakers ?  No, I use Egglestons Works Fortaine II.  Beatiful speakers and sounded sooo.. good !

The Duet will not support 24/96.  I has to be either USB or Transporter through a Pace-Car.

Steve N.

[capo]

I've been wanting to get into PC-based audio for years now but no products met my requirements until the Pace-Car with both SPDIF and I2S came out.

I had a few aborted attempts.  My last one was about a year ago when I tried a stock Squeezebox with an Elpac Bolder modified power supply.  I thought the Squeezebox sounded pretty crappy as a transport.  Miranda didn't like it either.  So it got returned in the 30-day trial window.

I never tried a modified Squeezebox.  I looked into it, but frankly after looking at the technology, it seemed like putting "lipstick on a pig".  But apart from the jitter and noise, I liked the feature set of the Squeezebox a lot.

One of my requirements is a wired Ethernet connection from a music server in another room.  I definitely did not want USB, for various reasons. 

Another requirement was an SPDIF connection for now, and I2S for later.  Other things I wanted:  very low jitter, galvanic isolation, upgradeable to higher bit rate formats, and definitely designed by someone who knew what they were doing, since this kind of digital design is not trivial.

So when Steve announced the Pace-Car with SPDIF and I2S, I went for it.  I got the version with a SuperClock4 for 44.1 khz.  Whatever I ended up with had to work with higher rates eventually though.  The Pace-Car can be upgraded later, so that worked for me.  I was an early adopter of SACD -- I got an SCD-777ES as soon as it came out, so I am familiar with high-rez and like it.  But I also have a shelf of unused SACDs without a player anymore to play them.  This time I'll be patient and wait for a critical mass of software before I jump in again.  By the way, I thought my Kern modified SCD-777ES was a pretty good transport.  But my Pace-Car sounds better.

My DAC is the Lite DAC50, with a few mods I made.  It's digital input isn't perfect by a long shot and in some sense it is kind of a shame that a good amount of jitter that Steve removes is put back in during the SPDIF clock recovery process in the CS8414 chip.  But I'm happy, even for SPDIF it's a great transport.

Later this year I'll play around with DIY DACs using I2S in. Oris, I gotta think the I2S mod to your Benchmark would be quite worthwhile, but that is just an educated guess. SPDIF is just not an optimum way of sending audio data around.