[miklorsmith]

The Attraction Tour is underway and that thread isn't dead.   The DAC is at its first stop where it had a dead battery but is now back up and running.  I thought about putting these thoughts in the Tour thread, but since this includes a comparison with another DAC it needed a different header.  Without further ado . . .

The Altmann Attraction DAC is a nonoversampling, 16 bit DAC with a number of innovative features. It is battery powered, which is not so novel as it was even two years ago. For a small upcharge, it can be prepared to accept any common digital frequecy up to 192 khz. It also has a jitter-smasher option which Altmann terms JISCO. Altmann recommends using a car battery for power source though I got a much smaller SLA battery which seems to work great.

The Lessloss 2004 oversamples X4 up to 768 khz from whatever frequency comes in, up to 192 khz. It uses regulated AC power for the digital section and inboard batteries for the output section. Time between charges is listed at 10 hours and the unit will power itself down once the battery is low for recharging. Lessloss encourages users to "slave" their transport clock to that in the DAC, claiming significant jitter benefits. For now, all observations are made without using this feature.

My Altmann review is long and probably half done. I should have finished it before receiving the Lessloss. The Altmann is brilliant with the fabric of music and presenting a holistic message. It keeps what is great about the nonoversampling sound but adds believable sharpness to notes, more detail, and frequency extension.

The Lessloss is utterly different, definitely falling into the "oversampling sound" camp. It's really startling. Details jump out from all over the place. Voices are confined to a more human-sized space and the soundstaging qualities are definitely superior to the Altmann. Frequency extension, at least on top, goes further up but does not get tizzy or glassy. It's $1,000 more expensive than the Altmann and some of that definitely goes into aesthetics, as it comes in an actual case where the Altmann uses a spruce board for a hairshirt look.

The briefest synopsis would be to say the Altmann is a nonoversampling DAC which adopts extension and resolution from the oversampling crowd and the Lessloss is an oversampling unit, borrowing the relaxed ease of presentation from the NOS group.

In this way, they're both enigmas. Both are fantastic performers in their own, unique way, and both do things I haven't heard. As to which is better, it depends on which direction your system needs help. If you're running all solid state gear and wish for some tubed warmth, I'd guess the Altmann would be better. If the system is softer and needs punch and vigor, the Lessloss is probably the ticket.

Within my own system, the choice is easy since the Altmann isn't fully compatible with the variable 24-bit output of my TacT preamp. That notwithstanding, I wouldn't be surprised if my final preference didn't depend whether the Red Wine Sig. 70s or Yamamoto A-08s were in the system. Yin and yang, cool breeze on a warm day, the sunshine on a cold winter day. Balance and compliment. Details without etch and relaxation without fuzz.

These pieces are an excellent sonic reflection of modern, great amplifiers. Tubes are borrowing from the strengths of solid state and vice versa. Accepted stereotypes are proving flexible.

http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm

http://www.lessloss.com/

[macrojack]

Wow, Mike........At this rate, you may not see Altmann again this year.

[Philistine]

Lessloss encourages users to "slave" their transport clock to that in the DAC, claiming significant jitter benefits. For now, all observations are made without using this feature.

Mike,
Your initial feedback on the Lessloss DAC motivated me to take a look at their website, and my take on this is that introducing the slave/master clock concept into the domestic environment is a critical step in maximizing the full potential of their DAC.  Is this something you plan to do in the future?
They make it look easy to do, and it probably is for the solder tweakers, but from what they are saying any cheapo $30 CDP will work?

[srayle]

Mike,

That was a beautifully written synopsis...you are a very talented writer who thinks very clearly.
I vote you keep the stuff coming, even though the pay ain't squat.

Steve

[miklorsmith]

Thanks, there's a lot more to come on these DACs.  The Altmann is back in da house and working like a champ, more props to the Touries who took perfect care of it.  I have 2 Lessloss DACs in the house, mine, and another on-loan which is coming with its own, dedicated "slave" transport.  I have their "old", modded Rega now, which is supposedly bettered by the current CEC transport which has a stock clock-in function.  That will be here probably next week or possibly the following.

The old Rega in master mode is really something.  I need to do some side-by-sides, and can't offer up any xx% better now (or maybe ever) but when it's playing the last thing I want to do is turn it off and mess with a bunch of wires.

Sucks to be me!   

[jb]

The briefest synopsis would be to say the Altmann is a nonoversampling DAC which adopts extension and resolution from the oversampling crowd and the Lessloss is an oversampling unit, borrowing the relaxed ease of presentation from the NOS group.

In this way, they're both enigmas. Both are fantastic performers in their own, unique way, and both do things I haven't heard. As to which is better, it depends on which direction your system needs help. If you're running all solid state gear and wish for some tubed warmth, I'd guess the Altmann would be better. If the system is softer and needs punch and vigor, the Lessloss is probably the ticket.
 

No disrespect intended but your review reads like a laundry list of audiophile clichés. It appears that in your view, all components are flawed by virtue of the technology they use: Tubes are warm and SS is cold, and those flaws need to be balanced by combining dissimilar technologies. E.g., an SS amp needs a tube DAC and a tube amp need a SS DAC. I thought the goal was neutrality and a good audio component is neither warm and dull nor cold and bright. The last thing I’d want to do is add a flawed/colored component to my system in the hopes of neutralizing another flawed/colored component. That path will never lead to neutrality. And if my system were neutral to begin with, why would I want a DAC with either exaggerated “tubed warmth” or “SS punch?”

[Jon L]

The last thing I’d want to do is add a flawed/colored component to my system in the hopes of neutralizing another flawed/colored component. That path will never lead to neutrality. And if my system were neutral to begin with, why would I want a DAC with either exaggerated “tubed warmth” or “SS punch?”

LOL.  If you actually find a component, even a cable, that is perfectly uncolored and neutral, PLEASE let me know ASAP.   

[ferenc_k]

I honestly can tell you, that in case of the Altmann products you do not have to think if it has a "tube" or an "SS" sound or coloration, it does have a very natural flow of music and this is what counts the most for me. Actually it does not really matter if a product is colored or not, if it gives you emotional impact and enjoyment when you are listening some music. The coloration and neutrality makes sense only if you listen the sound of your equipments, not the reproduced music. YMMV.

[1000a]

alot of testy comments today  warm and fuzzy over at sportsbar.  I do not have enough long term experience to even go there the ideal neutral,  but in my own simple way I am starting to reduce the endless craziness of putting in a new cord here and sending the whole presentation over this way generating another wire purchase to push the whole presentation Back 6 millimeters cause now its just not quite there.  I had it I had it but then I put this new cord in and well its got this really cool thing but I lost that other really cool thing, so

I wounder just what will make it work if I can just maybe wellmaybe I can with that other companies warmer cord get to where I want it, 2,500. later could have bought a AC re generator and really address what in the hell is coming out of this socket!  

sorry I think I saw this starting to happen to me recently, so its really is a reminder to
myself to keep it simple and reduce the number of variables if possible so I can try on stay on task, but damn its hard.  so much shinny stuff out there.

and I wounder is there a neutral anyway we do not even know if we hear the same things exactly.

anyway not that anyone cares, I am keeping all my wires magwire cause they are cheap and deliver what I think is pretty neutral (which could really suck ass to you guys) and I am doing them DIY and getting off the magic cable fix while keeping the wires all on the same personality page (sans the digital stereovox cable).  this way its very good in that department and I can track the other changes more accurately.  I am keeping the right to use different tubes and dampers to affect the sound (no NOS tubes at this time- too much $$ not ready I haven't even tapped the new stuff w 3 different Halo damper choices more detail, less detail, more body and so on gives me a subtle way to slide it this or that way gently) without spending a fortune and starving areas such as room treatments where most of us leave 50% of our stereo untapped.

now opportunity knocks will I just upgrade to the new stereovox XV2 and keep it on the same page or will I go off in search of the magic bullet or simply just better, which if I put in the system will confuse me as to what my plan was prior to buying, I like the old one the new ones smoother and better by great gains say most so what is the curse that drives us to see opportunity that might just cause overspending for a 3% return when a 50% return lies in bass traps and such?

I strongly advocate a very methodical more disciplined and sane approach to audio that I feel strongly all AC members must adopt ASAP, or i will not sprinkle my knowledge here   even though i am a newbie.  

no seriously that is my plan for now, I will try to keep it simple .  Of course I do realise as soon as I want to better the magwire I can be opening a can of Rats rather than peaches. and will start again to deconstruct what I have constructed and start that whole push it pull it thing all over again.  I just want to try and not kick my yardsticks around, without them I am just guessing my ass off.

sorry if you suffered this post and think or realise I am doing it all wrong.  its very possible but for now I am pretty happy and feel like i have a decent plan.  we will see how it survives the latest additions to my gear - will it actually work    

[miklorsmith]

No disrespect intended but your review reads like a laundry list of audiophile clichés.

No disrespect intended, you're free to not read the next one.

It appears that in your view, all components are flawed by virtue of the technology they use: Tubes are warm and SS is cold, and those flaws need to be balanced by combining dissimilar technologies. E.g., an SS amp needs a tube DAC and a tube amp need a SS DAC. I thought the goal was neutrality and a good audio component is neither warm and dull nor cold and bright. The last thing I’d want to do is add a flawed/colored component to my system in the hopes of neutralizing another flawed/colored component. That path will never lead to neutrality. And if my system were neutral to begin with, why would I want a DAC with either exaggerated “tubed warmth” or “SS punch?”

What's a neutral component?  What are neutral speakers?  Do you think your system is neutral?  What is your definition of neutral?  Is it frequency response only?  Have you measured your room?  Do you have an opinion on tubes?  How much experience do you have with them?  How much experience do you have with different digital conversion technologies?  Do you know what system synergy means?  How many combinations of gears have you had in your house?  Did you notice that some combinations worked better than others?  Why do you suppose that might be?

You have extrapolated my comments beyond what I said.  I didn't say combining technologies is needed, rather balancing voices.  Maybe you noticed we audiophiles are always looking for something in our systems.  What?  Absolute neutrality?  This is one of the most nebulous terms in the imperfect art of sound description.  I might be misguided but I think most of the experienced among us have moved on from that idea.  There is no baseline and stuff that measures "flat" oftentimes sounds like flatline or broken.  To me, an oversampling DAC to a solid state preamp to a solid state amp has very little hope of capturing my imagination for any length of time.  I'm open to the possibility but experience tells me I won't love it.

My comments were aimed at the listener who is looking to push their system in a certain direction.  If you're happy with your system, great. 

[opnly bafld]

Well put Mike.

Lin

[woodsyi]

alot of testy comments today   warm and fuzzy over at sportsbar.  I do not have enough long term experience to even go there the ideal neutral,  but in my own simple way I am starting to reduce the endless craziness of putting in a new cord here and sending the whole presentation over this way generating another wire purchase to push the whole presentation Back 6 millimeters cause now its just not quite there.  I had it I had it but then I put this new cord in and well its got this really cool thing but I lost that other really cool thing, so

I wounder just what will make it work if I can just maybe wellmaybe I can with that other companies warmer cord get to where I want it, 2,500. later could have bought a AC re generator and really address what in the hell is coming out of this socket! 

sorry I think I saw this starting to happen to me recently, so its really is a reminder to
myself to keep it simple and reduce the number of variables if possible so I can try on stay on task, but damn its hard.  so much shinny stuff out there.

and I wounder is there a neutral anyway we do not even know if we hear the same things exactly.

anyway not that anyone cares, I am keeping all my wires magwire cause they are cheap and deliver what I think is pretty neutral (which could really suck ass to you guys) and I am doing them DIY and getting off the magic cable fix while keeping the wires all on the same personality page (sans the digital stereovox cable).  this way its very good in that department and I can track the other changes more accurately.  I am keeping the right to use different tubes and dampers to affect the sound (no NOS tubes at this time- too much $$ not ready I haven't even tapped the new stuff w 3 different Halo damper choices more detail, less detail, more body and so on gives me a subtle way to slide it this or that way gently) without spending a fortune and starving areas such as room treatments where most of us leave 50% of our stereo untapped.

now opportunity knocks will I just upgrade to the new stereovox XV2 and keep it on the same page or will I go off in search of the magic bullet or simply just better, which if I put in the system will confuse me as to what my plan was prior to buying, I like the old one the new ones smoother and better by great gains say most so what is the curse that drives us to see opportunity that might just cause overspending for a 3% return when a 50% return lies in bass traps and such?

I strongly advocate a very methodical more disciplined and sane approach to audio that I feel strongly all AC members must adopt ASAP, or i will not sprinkle my knowledge here  even though i am a newbie. 

no seriously that is my plan for now, I will try to keep it simple .  Of course I do realise as soon as I want to better the magwire I can be opening a can of Rats rather than peaches. and will start again to deconstruct what I have constructed and start that whole push it pull it thing all over again.  I just want to try and not kick my yardsticks around, without them I am just guessing my ass off.

sorry if you suffered this post and think or realise I am doing it all wrong.  its very possible but for now I am pretty happy and feel like i have a decent plan.  we will see how it survives the latest additions to my gear - will it actually work    

OK, Samuel Beckett.  I keep putting new cords in out and seek for the warmth clarity of the ever clear sound that I know will be the end of all sound as we know it.  But guess what?  I am still looking, listening and waiting for my musical Godot.  You think Godot is warm, cold or neutral? 

[mcullinan]

Hey, look at my uber copy/paste skills:
Samuel Barclay Beckett (13 April 1906 – 22 December 1989) was an Irish dramatist, novelist and poet.

Beckett's work is stark, fundamentally minimalist, and, according to some interpretations, deeply pessimistic about the human condition. His work grew increasingly cryptic and attenuated over his career.

The perceived pessimism in Beckett's work is mitigated both by a great and often wicked sense of humour, and by the sense, for some readers, that Beckett's portrayal of life's obstacles serves to demonstrate that the journey, while difficult, is ultimately worth the effort. Similarly, many posit that Beckett's expressed "pessimism" is not so much for the human condition but for that of an established cultural and societal structure which imposes a stultifying will upon otherwise hopeful individuals; it is the inherent optimism of the human condition, therefore, that is at tension with the oppressive world.

[1000a]

OK, Samuel Beckett.  I keep putting new cords in out and seek for the warmth clarity of the ever clear sound that I know will be the end of all sound as we know it.  But guess what?  I am still looking, listening and waiting for my musical Godot.  You think Godot is warm, cold or neutral? 

you guys are to much fun, excellent   I got to go do some n-ti-lec-t-yal pushups and get back at ya later

you did not - tell me, read that post by some joker that could not sleep

[Philistine]

Back on topic:

CD as a format is now 25 years old, and in the later stages of its life cycle as other mediums have moved in.  It's only within the last few years that the hardware industry has started to find ways to extract its musical potential, and the various DAC paths that Mike is following is of interest as he's exploring some of these avenues.  I for one am very interested in his comments on the various DAC's he's playing with - please keep the feedback coming Mike.

[1000a]

I for one am very interested in his comments on the various DAC's he's playing with - please keep the feedback coming Mike.

second that w a big 

sorry about the tangent I let that whole neutral/warm cool thing sucked me in.