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[scorpion]

Exactly like this Vinnie R, You could also come about with a bit smaller OB's. I Think that the second B200s sholuld be mounted on the same baffle. I think that this would be the most natrural sounding speaker. But you could do with some surface above the bottom driver.  

/Erling

[scorpion]

Dmason,

I do not for any moment think that your respone was accidental. My opinon is tha you are exactly rigth about the design. My own expeirince with upside down Ciare's do confirm your findings. As are other OB designs.

/Erling

[Dmason]

By accidental, I was referring to the final design I made last year, with the DarkStars that I built, this was an actual system design, five pairs, for people who couldnt live without the set up, having heard it in my place, it was with a narrowish static baffle and back folding wings all in hardwood veneer. This was to narrow the visual aspect and to allow for "tuning" to the room, the waveguide aspect was very much a secondary consideration to my thinking at the time, and indicates just now to me, how far my thinking on the matter has come in a year. The scaled up Linkwitz baffles for the bass drivers fit in behind the narrowish front baffle, out of the way. This method does not cheat, unlike the Bastanis design, with its big sealed box for the one per side Eminence Delta 12LF drivers, and I used 4X Delta 15LF for some REAL bass, and DSP EQ...

I do know that if Vinnie turns the baffle upside down, the boundary reinforcement will mean increased bass response, and push downward, the baffle step. The slope is pretty gradual, in practice. Now with lots of power power on tap I can lift the bass region ~5db using the Rane RPM and the sound coming from one B200 is just enormous.  It is a good day for the evolution of Open Baffle fun.

[Vinnie R.]

Guys,

I'll turn them upside down later tonight when I finally get a chance to listen.  I'll report back...

[Wind Chaser]

Richard,

It will be a while before I have things set up.  Dave at Planet 10 still has my B200’s and the new ones won’t arrive until the end of next week at the earliest.  Shortly after that I’ll be taking off for a vacation.  My guess it will around the end of July before I have a working system in order.  I’ll certainly post the progress made along the way.


John,

I’ve kept all your emails and I can’t find anything pertaining to avoiding ¼ resonance with Sono Tubes.  Perhaps you could post the information here publicly for everyone’s benefit?


Vinnie,

If it were not for the black thing on your baffle I’d say that looks like Jim Winey’s Tympani 1-D!  JohninCR is truly gifted and well seasoned in both his knowledge and experience with OB’s.  I think most folks here would agree that his understanding and practice easily laps anyone else’s here.  Most us value his insight would agree that he is anything but a “resident theorist” or mere “pedant!”


John

[Dmason]

Wind Chaser

Don't assume anything, especially on my behalf. John in CR is the LAST person I was referring to as a theorist or pedant. He is the living cutting edge with this stuff, and that requires being a practitioner, not a theorist. I was actually thinking of him when I was reflecting on how far my thinking had come in the last year, reflecting on my own thinking, as I, can only speak for myself.

 I take umbrage at your statement, sir, you may wish to retract it, for the record.

[Vinnie R.]

If it were not for the black thing on your baffle I’d say that looks like Jim Winey’s Tympani 1-D!...

Hi John,

Do you have any links, pics, details....I'd like to check them out!

Thanks

[corloc]

Chris,

Those look like great drivers and the price is right! Have you got them mounted on the same baffle as your B200s?


John

Grrr.  figureing out wifes camera.  Ah!!





Baffle length is 40" at a 10 deg. slant back.  Center is 16", fixed wings are 10" and 7" at 60 deg.   Warrior is centered at 12" and B200 is at 24".  I did have a top on them, but I like the sound more without.  Insolation is cill plate insolation for home building.

With 30hrs on the Warriors the imaging is coming back to the B200's in spades.  The bass is now becomeing punchy.  The mids of the warriors are now getting out of the way of the B200's.  I wish I could be as elequent as Richard,  but all i can say is these are looking real promising.

Chris

[corloc]

I guess it wasn't an Ahh!! It was an Arrrg!!  O.K. try this.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/modules.php?set_albumName=albuw55&id=baffle1&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/modules.php?set_albumName=albuw55&id=ballfe2&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

[ohenry]

Corloc,
Hope you don't mind if I post the pics, nice stuff...

[-Richard-]

Hi John (in CR),

"Driver to top edge distance is no different from driver to the side edges of your baffle in
how it affects bass response and you address it in exactly the same manner."

I am not certain I understand your reference: Are you saying, John:

1. that the distance of the driver to the edge should reflect proportions that would be
optimal for good bass characteristics?
2. that the distance of the driver to the top of the baffle should equal (roughly) the
distance to the edges of the baffle...taking the wings into consideration as part
of the measuring?
3. that the addition of wings to Vinnie's baffles and the overall measurements of the
wings plus the center baffle, halved, should be the same as the driver to the top edge?
4. that the height of Vinnie's OB's and wing length are the result of proportions
you found optimal for best bass response from one driver?

Thanks John, for any clarification you can offer. Your insights are always important
to all of us~

May I say a few words about conflict here:
Several months ago Dmason expressed a theoretical interest in the idea of placing
2 B200's in each Open Baffle as an experiment to see what effect it might have
on the all-over sound and resolving ability of his Dark Star OB configuration~

Actually, it was a gift from Dmason, to help open things up and point to new possibilities
of how we can further expand the potential of implementing simple yet effective
solutions for DIY Open Baffle designs~

Immediately, a number of AC participants took Dmason to task...claiming that he was
not following his own principles of less equals more...a silly interpretation that
had the effect of concretizing this fascinating and developing study of simple yet
effective solutions that anyone could afford and enjoy the adventure of~

It took several months to shake those people out of this thread...with their
deadly leaden fanaticism and sullen contempt for a creative approach to this
entire adventure~

They misunderstood Dmason at that time. Essentially because they did not
understand the "spirit" in which he made his suggestions.

That was then. This is now. Let us understand each other in the spirit in which we
we are speaking...and not assume anything...shall we. That way this thread will
continue to develop in the spirit of creativity and innovation..something which is
sadly missing from the general climate of this country during this particularly
dark political period~

Warm Regards ~Richard~

[JohninCR]

Richard,

I'm just saying the distance over the top isn't any different than the distance around the left or right, and is no more (or less) important to the baffle taken as a whole.  Just extend your top distance by taping a piece of cardboard to your baffle to hear the difference it makes.  It may only be subtle, but there must be some difference.

[jgpmhl]

Gentlemen,

I have been following this thread with ongoing and grateful interest. What do you suppose would happen if the tri-fold design recently posted was suspended above the floor a meter or so?  Would the bass evaporate?

A couple of us, both with arched ceilings, are pondering this issue with some intensity.

jgpmhl

[corloc]

Thanks Henry, I needed that.

[-Richard-]

I am the least qualified person to answer your interesting question~

However, when I placed the second B200 driver 3" from the floor in my simple
Open Baffle panel as Dmason suggested, the floor acted as a resonating
surface that helped reinforce the lower frequencies...allowing that second
B200 driver to reach down into the low 40Hz region~

That suggests that if you lift the baffles off the floor you would not be getting the
benefit of the "coupling" action the floor creates with the baffle~

That is where my knowledge ends...I am certain you will get much more help
from Dmason or John in CR...good question though...it is great to read all the
ideas being suggested here~

Warm Regards ~Richard~

[corloc]

Richard,

I'm just saying the distance over the top isn't any different than the distance around the left or right, and is no more (or less) important to the baffle taken as a whole.  Just extend your top distance by taping a piece of cardboard to your baffle to hear the difference it makes.  It may only be subtle, but there must be some difference.

I would agree with this statment.  My first baffle were almost the same as my last posted one, but the center baffle was 10" instead of 16".  I used a board on top of the baffle when I used a  single B200.  I helped the bass as well as helping imaging as well.

I don't use the board now, because it seem to smeer the bass with the second driver, and with it some of the mids and imageing.  I'm still dinkering, but having the board on or not has a markable differance in my system.

I have to say i believe in "KISS".  Haveing no more than what is needed to make it right.  That can be a pain to find.

Chris

[Wind Chaser]

If it were not for the black thing on your baffle I’d say that looks like Jim Winey’s Tympani 1-D!...

Hi John,

Do you have any links, pics, details....I'd like to check them out!

Thanks

Vinnie,

The Tympani 1-D is a vintage Magnepan design going back to the late 70’s.  It was a huge speaker (Winey’s statement product at the time and a TAS favorite) that consisted of three large panels totaling about 4’ wide and 6’ high for each speaker.  They sucked a lot of juice but moved a tremendous amount of air.  I can’t find any images on Net but I noticed they do occasionally come up for sale on Audiogon.


John

[Wind Chaser]

Wind Chaser

Don't assume anything, especially on my behalf. John in CR is the LAST person I was referring to as a theorist or pedant. He is the living cutting edge with this stuff, and that requires being a practitioner, not a theorist. I was actually thinking of him when I was reflecting on how far my thinking had come in the last year, reflecting on my own thinking, as I, can only speak for myself.

 I take umbrage at your statement, sir, you may wish to retract it, for the record.

Dmason,

Not looking to pick a fight here… and my comments were not so much of an assumption as a deduction.  Anyone who reads this thread can clearly see that JohninCR was the only one to voice concern and at the same time speak intelligently about the adverse effect of wings on an open baffle. So that comment pertaining to wings and “vibration was never, ever an issue, despite dire warnings…” can only point to John.

I have a great deal of respect for John and if it were not for him, I would not have ventured down the OB path.  So I took umbrage at your statement, but more than that, I wondered why would you even say such a thing?


John

[Wind Chaser]

Several months ago Dmason expressed a theoretical interest in the idea of placing
2 B200's in each Open Baffle as an experiment to see what effect it might have
on the all-over sound and resolving ability of his Dark Star OB configuration~

Actually, it was a gift from Dmason, to help open things up and point to new possibilities
of how we can further expand the potential of implementing simple yet effective
solutions for DIY Open Baffle designs~

Richard,

Three months to the day prior to Dmason’s post that he was experimenting with two B200’s I posted a link about a fellow Canuck who’d been there, done that, got the T-shirt.  For the record, here is that link again…  

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=811094#post811094

Unfortunately that was his last post and he has since disappeared from the radar.  Wanting more information I privately asked one of our revered members what he thought, and he more less shot the idea down.  Hence I sold one of my two pairs of B200’s…  Now I’m in the process of acquiring a second pair again to get back on track with where I was heading last January.


John

[Dmason]

Which is why I choose to be an "ignorant" practitioner, making decisions based on available fact.

 Get the drivers, cut the holes. The heavy lifting has already been done. You will hopefully be happy. -But I don't make assumptions.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who don't teach, research. Those who don't research, theorize.