V25 OLED Display

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MadKid

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V25 OLED Display
« on: 1 Dec 2017, 05:52 am »
Hi, is the OLED display module development still carrying on? Can you tell roughly in what time it will become available?

Thanks,
Ken

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #1 on: 1 Dec 2017, 07:29 pm »
Hi, is the OLED display module development still carrying on? Can you tell roughly in what time it will become available?

Thanks,
Ken


Yes, most definitely. I expect to release it in the 1st quarter of 2018. Yes, that's a wide window but probably won't be January.

Jens

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #2 on: 23 Jan 2018, 01:35 pm »
Hi Morten,

The OLED display sounds really nice :)

Would you be able to lift the veil a bit concerning what information will be available in the display?

I have my Tortuga V25 in a cupboard (controlled by a Logitec IR blaster), but I have a plan to get the OLED display (when available) and place the display outside the cupboard (underneath, as the cupboard is wall-mounted). That would probably require the ribbon cable to be around a foot long. Would the cable length be a problem, do you think?

Cheers,

Jens

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #3 on: 26 Jan 2018, 06:32 pm »
Hi Morten,

The OLED display sounds really nice :)

Would you be able to lift the veil a bit concerning what information will be available in the display?

I have my Tortuga V25 in a cupboard (controlled by a Logitec IR blaster), but I have a plan to get the OLED display (when available) and place the display outside the cupboard (underneath, as the cupboard is wall-mounted). That would probably require the ribbon cable to be around a foot long. Would the cable length be a problem, do you think?

Cheers,

Jens

I hope to have a brief video available soon showing some elements of the new display info. The overall framework of the oled display firmware is in place along with most of the low level coding stuff. The remaining work is fleshing out the individual menus and doing the detailed debugging. In plain english the hard technical work has been done but the tedious fine tuning remains.

Conceptually there will be a menu tree that you can drill down into or escape back out of with clear large font text letting you know what menu item your're at. The main/default volume display will be a single large number (1-99)  with volume bias value (up to 20 max) shown on left or right of the volume value. There's a visual volume bar as well. When you're muted it will say MUTE otherwise it will show the volume step. There will be an options menu where you can select volume displayed as step number (1-99) or dB (-60 to 0).

The main menu items will mostly follow the exsiting menu structure used with the existing display modes:  volume, input, impedance, display, calibration etc. There will likely be a new overall settings/options menu item with a list of submenu items where you can turn certain features on/off.

I think most will find it to be fairly intuitive to navigate and certainly easier than the existing control/display system.

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #4 on: 28 Jan 2018, 02:16 pm »
Yesterday I went to make a short video of the new OLED graphic display in action using my Google Pixel phone which has a fabulous camera. Not so fast.

Turns out the Pixel camera bombards whatever it's pointed at with some type of signal to determine distance. This signal must contain some amount of infrared noise because whenever I point the camera at the OLED/IR receiver and try to make a change with the remote, the camera steps all over the IR command from the remote.

Yes, that's right, my smartphone camera is jamming my preamp.  :o

Time to break out the big SLR which hopefully using a more polite depth finder.

mikebarney

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #5 on: 30 Jan 2018, 01:13 am »
Looking forward to seeing the photos.  I’ve had a version 25 board waiting for some time for the OLED display.
Mike

RichPark

Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #6 on: 30 Jan 2018, 08:38 pm »
The phone is using infra red to focus. Turn off auto focus and you should be good.

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #7 on: 31 Jan 2018, 11:37 pm »
The phone is using infra red to focus. Turn off auto focus and you should be good.

Aha!!! Fantastic. Took a bit of searching around to figure out how to turn off autofocus but once I did I can now maintain focus and the preamp responds normally now that the camera's IR focus bombardment is turned off.

Much appreciated!!  :thumb:

glynnw

Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #8 on: 5 Feb 2018, 04:25 am »
I am assuming the new display will be larger than the current digital numbers.  If you need to change to a different case I really encourage you to use one that is opened from the top, at least for the kit.  The current case is with the end plate coming off, which for me leads to breaking the wires when I try to put it back together.  That is why I had to send mine to you for repair a while back.  Also, if I download the latest software, will that give me the new balance control that keeps the volume almost constant?  And lastly, I recently added a pre-amp to my system - it sounded a bit better than the custom buffer I had been using.  But since the pre-amp  has no remote I am keeping the Tortuga passive feeding it.  To my ears there is just no change in the sound when I add it in and remote volume and balance are a wonderful thing for a couch potato like me.

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #9 on: 5 Feb 2018, 10:06 pm »
I am assuming the new display will be larger than the current digital numbers.  If you need to change to a different case I really encourage you to use one that is opened from the top, at least for the kit.  The current case is with the end plate coming off, which for me leads to breaking the wires when I try to put it back together.  That is why I had to send mine to you for repair a while back.  Also, if I download the latest software, will that give me the new balance control that keeps the volume almost constant?  And lastly, I recently added a pre-amp to my system - it sounded a bit better than the custom buffer I had been using.  But since the pre-amp  has no remote I am keeping the Tortuga passive feeding it.  To my ears there is just no change in the sound when I add it in and remote volume and balance are a wonderful thing for a couch potato like me.

Regarding the OLED display

The new OLED (organic LED) display is a 1" tall by 3.25" wide rectangle. The overall display unit is larger than this but that's the size of visible glass panel. Since it's a pixel based graphical display the entire area is available for display of either text, numbers or images.

The existing 7-segment displays have numbers that are 0.56" tall and is reasonably visible from seated listening positions assuming the equipment is located 10-15 feet in front of the seated listener. The primary volume level numbers in the OLED display will be roughly the same size and will also be blue text/numbers against a nearly black backgroung. In my opinion the OLED display has better overall display contrast than the blue 7-segment LED display. The objective with the OLED display is for the user to clearly see the display as good as or better than the 7-segment. However, there will be certain display info such as when selecting options, enabling/disabling certain features, or viewing diagnostic info etc. that will will user smaller fonts and require the user to be at the unit to view the info.

The OLED display will fit within the current enclosure and occupy roughly the same 3D space as the existing dual 7-segment display assembly. However, the OLED display WILL require a new front panel that is custom milled to fit the OLED display glass.  I debated putting the entire display behind the existing acrylic front panel but concluded that the loss in contrast, clarity and brightness was too big a price to pay. Coming up with just the right custom milling to perfectly fit the OLED display glass and supporting module was a PITA.

The OLED display will plug into existing V25 boards but will require a firmware update to be operational. A physical jumper (shunt) will also need to be added across a pair of pins on the J7 header to select OLED.

Regarding other stuff

With most everything mounted to a slide-in mounting board except the front/rear panels with our end-access-only extruded enclosure I rarely have wire breakage when opening/closing a unit. However, if you use really fine silver hookup wire or the like then it can get a lot easier to break a connection between the RCA/XLR jacks and input connection points.

The constant volume during balance adjustment is working well for the V25 board. Have not updated the V2 firmware with that yet but your note reminds me that I should get that done.

Yet again, you are witness to how the Tortuga LDR preamp gets out of the way of the music and imparts a light to non-existent footprint of its own to the sound.

glynnw

Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #10 on: 6 Feb 2018, 12:10 am »
A while back I had to change my Tortuga display from blue to red because I could no longer read the blue numbers at a distance of 10 feet.  I searched the net and found this was common in many people as they age - there was even a name for this condition which I cannot recall.  Seriously, I will not be able to buy the new display because it will be too blurry for me to read unless I move up to a distance of a couple of feet.  Red works great for me.  I hate to complicate your life, but this is a serious issue for me.

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #11 on: 6 Feb 2018, 07:41 pm »
A while back I had to change my Tortuga display from blue to red because I could no longer read the blue numbers at a distance of 10 feet.  I searched the net and found this was common in many people as they age - there was even a name for this condition which I cannot recall.  Seriously, I will not be able to buy the new display because it will be too blurry for me to read unless I move up to a distance of a couple of feet.  Red works great for me.  I hate to complicate your life, but this is a serious issue for me.

I do know what you mean about how the blue 7-segment displays can be hard for some to read easily. There's something about the blue LED color that can make them appear blurry even though they are objectively crisp and clear. In my opinion the blue OLED display do not exhibit this kind of blurring or if they do it's significantly less noticeable.

That said, the same model type OLED display can also be sourced in white or yellow (but not red). I think either of those alternative colors should work well. My guess is white (on black) will likely be the easiest to read.

glynnw

Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #12 on: 6 Feb 2018, 11:19 pm »
Will we have an option at order time, or do you wish us to give you our ideas now so you can see if it is worthwhile for you to order more than the blue?  Does anyone have any experience with white vs yellow on a black background?  I got no idea which is easier to see.  And thanks, Morten, for taking me seriously about this.  Although I am generally a kook troublemaker, in this I am sincere.

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #13 on: 7 Feb 2018, 02:02 pm »
Will we have an option at order time, or do you wish us to give you our ideas now so you can see if it is worthwhile for you to order more than the blue?  Does anyone have any experience with white vs yellow on a black background?  I got no idea which is easier to see.  And thanks, Morten, for taking me seriously about this.  Although I am generally a kook troublemaker, in this I am sincere.

Dear "kook troublemaker" (LOL!),

No final decision has been made (or needs to be made) on OLED color. I'm going to order a white version and compare it to the blue. Generally not a fan of yellow displays. Ideally I'll end up with a single color which is way easier to source/stock/manage but perhaps blue/white could be options. 

Always appreciate your input Glynn  :thumb:

MadKid

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #14 on: 8 Feb 2018, 10:50 am »
Hi Morten glad to see things are being finalize and summing up. I've been waited long to integrate the balanced V25 boards with my AMB Beta 22 headamp / preamp. Simply can't live without a display lol.

glynnw

Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #15 on: 13 Feb 2018, 03:41 am »
FWIW I just noticed my DAC has a white on black display and there is non of the blur that blue brings with it.  Just please make the numbers as big as they are currently so I can read them from my chair. - abt 11 feet away.  The DAC has several lines of data with such small white letters that I need to be about a foot from it to read them.  Guess they designed it while working with it on their workbench.

tortugaranger

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Re: V25 OLED Display
« Reply #16 on: 13 Feb 2018, 02:25 pm »
FWIW I just noticed my DAC has a white on black display and there is non of the blur that blue brings with it.  Just please make the numbers as big as they are currently so I can read them from my chair. - abt 11 feet away.  The DAC has several lines of data with such small white letters that I need to be about a foot from it to read them.  Guess they designed it while working with it on their workbench.

Readability from typical listening distance has been one of the key goals from the outset.

I evaluated several character based displays but found them all lacking in terms of having bright, clear, large fonts readable from up to 15-20 feet away. Going with a 1 inch tall OLED graphical display was the only type of display that addressed these objectives. The downside is that graphical displays are far more challenging to work with since you have to deal with each individual pixel and not pre-defined built-in characters/symbols. You would think the manufacturers of these displays would provide fully cooked ready-to-drop-in software code/tools but no such luck. As a result I had to create most of the low-level software routines from scratch which was very time consuming. That's all done now and the remaining work is all about refining the menu structure and integrating the controls/display with the existing code.

It's looking very good at this point with a March/April release likely.  :thumb: