Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?

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rebbi

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #21 on: 26 Oct 2017, 07:46 pm »
I very much appreciate all of the informative and enthusiastic replies to my original post – thank you all so much! What I now understand is that the M3 (and the M4, as well) being as sensitive as they are can be successfully used with a low wattage, SET amplifier. My little 300 B amp will easily drive the M3's to satisfying volumes. That said, having the chance to listen to my rig with this Krell integrated amp  which pumps out 200 W into 8 ohms and 400 W into 4 ohms (!) I've come to understand that SET, low wattage topology isn't showing the M3's at their best. It turns out that the fellow from whom I borrowed the Krell amp had it in its box under a bed and hadn't used it in quite some time. He's willing to sell it to me for $1200; it sold for about $2500 when it was introduced around 2004 (I think). So I am now dealing with the question of whether I should just grab the Krell or do some shopping around for something more up-to-date. If it turns out to be a solid-state amplifier, has the state of amplifier technology evolved to such an extent over the last decade or so that it doesn't make any sense to buy into "2004 technology?" Or, is the Krell such a quality piece that my previous question is moot?
I should add that years ago, I owned a Bel Canto S300 stereo amp that I think put out 150 W per channel into 8 ohms. I eventually sold it and bought a pair of used Manley Mahi  mono-block  tubed amplifiers that sonically blew the  Bel Canto Away. The Bel Canto was a class D amp, and I'm wondering whether the newer class D amplifiers have evolved a great deal, sonically. My impression is that they have.
Eager for your further thoughts and opinions – thanks in advance.

roscoe65

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #22 on: 26 Oct 2017, 07:56 pm »
I suppose one option is to network with your local(ish) group of audiophiles.  You have a pair of Spatial Audio speakers that others would like to audition, and others likely have amps that you could audition in your system.

Of course, I'm in metro NY and there are thousands of local audiophiles.  It may be a different story in your neck of the woods.

2oldcranks

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #23 on: 26 Oct 2017, 08:44 pm »
I plan to use a class D integrated, an april musis aura note 2 that has a B&O icepower amp that is 125/250 watts 8/4 ohm and has a good cd player,fm tuner and a dac that sounds graet to me. I ordered some red M4TMs and plan to pair them.
I used the April Music with my previous Klipsch Forte 2s that had titanium mid and high diaphrams and custom ALK crossovers and it was always very smooth,
It also drives my current Dynaudio Focus 160 s with ease and they arent exactly ticklish if ya know what im sayin.
Ive had four class d amps and they just keep getting better very quickly now like DACs are.
The little April sounds as good as the Revox B150 I still have around and that thing is CLEAN and smooth class A/B,
I can hear no reason a good class D would dissappoint you.Ncores,Ice,and a few others are here now,not catching up. The little 3116 chip amp I nused with a little tube pre was a smack in the face for what you can expect for your hard earned dollar.I believe class d with a tube pre(ala rogue sphinx and the like) is going to be great for us working class slobs that love music,
Good luck and enjoy the hunt  8)

Wind Chaser

Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #24 on: 26 Oct 2017, 10:19 pm »
I should add that years ago, I owned a Bel Canto S300 stereo amp that I think put out 150 W per channel into 8 ohms. I eventually sold it and bought a pair of used Manley Mahi  mono-block  tubed amplifiers that sonically blew the  Bel Canto Away. The Bel Canto was a class D amp, and I'm wondering whether the newer class D amplifiers have evolved a great deal, sonically. My impression is that they have.

Your impressions are quite correct. Class D amps of days gone by are nothing like the Class D amps of today; they are not even remotely close. You'd be in for a heck of a surprise if you were to try something current. I say this as someone who has owned a number of very fine tube amps over the years including ARC PP's, 2A3, 300b and Decware SETs; the Coincident Dynamo (most recent version) my favorite of the lot. 

Dadbeh

Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #25 on: 26 Oct 2017, 10:37 pm »
Your impressions are quite correct. Class D amps of days gone by are nothing like the Class D amps of today; they are not even remotely close. You'd be in for a heck of a surprise if you were to try something current. I say this as someone who has owned a number of very fine tube amps over the years including ARC PP's, 2A3, 300b and Decware SETs; the Coincident Dynamo (most recent version) my favorite of the lot. 

you prefered Dynamo to ARC?

Wind Chaser

Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #26 on: 27 Oct 2017, 12:09 am »
Yes, in every respect.

rebbi

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #27 on: 27 Oct 2017, 12:57 pm »
Yes, in every respect.

Hey, Windchaser,
Did you actually power the M3TS with the dynamo? How did it fare, if so?

Wind Chaser

Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #28 on: 27 Oct 2017, 04:38 pm »
I did, the short answer is not good. Well that's putting it lightly. I'll rephrase what I previously wrote back in June...

I have a Coincident Dynamo MKII; under *ideal conditions* it is indeed a very sweet sounding/remarkable amp. Better than the Decware, 2A3, 300b etc I've previously owned. But with the difficult load of the M3ts, it sounds like it's broken ... hardly like a SET. So I switched it out with a lowly TPA 3116 that I have on hand and  :o

IMO, anyone using a SET with these speakers should consider at the very least trying something else.

The problem with SET amps is high efficiency isn't enough. They work best with an easy load, which means they need a smoooooooth impedance. The M3ts dips as low as 3Ω and rises to well over 100Ω; even the Triode Master appears to be a serious roller coaster ride in that respect.




Oh I should add... this is that aforementioned lowly TPA 3116. I kid you not when I say this worked faaaaaaaaar better than the Dynamo with the M3ts. That in part is what led me to look closer into Class D. When difference between an inexpensive cheap chip amp and extremely well regarded SET is day and night in favor of the cheap chip amp, you know it's time to look for a new amp.

I had a Nuprime IDA-8 on loan for a few weeks, once it broke in and smoothed out it was another revelation and a huuuuuge leap forward from the TPA 3116. That's not to say the TPA 3116 sounded bad; the person who bought my Dynamo was blown away by how good, powerful and authoritative it drove the M3ts. So that should give you an idea of how good the pairing is between the IDA-8 and the M3ts. But if you require another analogue input, it doesn't have one and that's too bad.






rebbi

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #29 on: 28 Oct 2017, 05:56 pm »
I did, the short answer is not good. Well that's putting it lightly. I'll rephrase what I previously wrote back in June...

I have a Coincident Dynamo MKII; under *ideal conditions* it is indeed a very sweet sounding/remarkable amp. Better than the Decware, 2A3, 300b etc I've previously owned. But with the difficult load of the M3ts, it sounds like it's broken ... hardly like a SET. So I switched it out with a lowly TPA 3116 that I have on hand and  :o

IMO, anyone using a SET with these speakers should consider at the very least trying something else.

The problem with SET amps is high efficiency isn't enough. They work best with an easy load, which means they need a smoooooooth impedance. The M3ts dips as low as 3Ω and rises to well over 100Ω; even the Triode Master appears to be a serious roller coaster ride in that respect.




Oh I should add... this is that aforementioned lowly TPA 3116. I kid you not when I say this worked faaaaaaaaar better than the Dynamo with the M3ts. That in part is what led me to look closer into Class D. When difference between an inexpensive cheap chip amp and extremely well regarded SET is day and night in favor of the cheap chip amp, you know it's time to look for a new amp.

I had a Nuprime IDA-8 on loan for a few weeks, once it broke in and smoothed out it was another revelation and a huuuuuge leap forward from the TPA 3116. That's not to say the TPA 3116 sounded bad; the person who bought my Dynamo was blown away by how good, powerful and authoritative it drove the M3ts. So that should give you an idea of how good the pairing is between the IDA-8 and the M3ts. But if you require another analogue input, it doesn't have one and that's too bad.

It occurs to me that only having one analog input really is not a dealbreaker, because my sources consist of two that are digital (a CD player and a Mac laptop playing high-resolution files) and an analog source, i.e., a turntable. The one thing about that amplifier, though, that strikes me as strange is that the analog inputs digitize the signal, which seems like a strange thing to do with something coming out of a turntable. Any insight on that?

Wind Chaser

Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #30 on: 28 Oct 2017, 06:15 pm »
The one thing about that amplifier, though, that strikes me as strange is that the analog inputs digitize the signal, which seems like a strange thing to do with something coming out of a turntable. Any insight on that?

Sorry, no experience or insight into that as I only have digital sources. However I would like to suggest that if you live in the area of a Nuprime dealer, see if you can demo one in your home for a few days. Hopefully they have one that is already broken in. 

Samac

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #31 on: 28 Oct 2017, 06:38 pm »
Hey rebbi,

Since you are looking at Nuprime you might want to also consider the IDA-16. With the 3.0Ohm low and the two 15" woofers the 200 watts from the IDA-16 might be advantageous.

I've had the IDA-16 since April with Bowers and Wilkins 683 S2s which also dip to a 3 Ohm low and it's handled them with ease. From my experience the IDA-16 is neutral and balanced. The build quality and functionality are excellent (it has one of the best volume controls  I've ever used).

The review by Vince Hanada at Soundstage is excellent and sums it up very well.

http://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/607-nuprime-ida-16-integrated-amplifier-dac

Hey rebbi, I think you and I owned Merlin TSMs at the same time a few years back. Good to "see" you.

Cheers,

Scott

Wind Chaser

Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #32 on: 28 Oct 2017, 07:29 pm »
The IDA-16 would be even a better choice but that might push his budget.

There are of them on Audiogon for $2000.  8)

Samac

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #33 on: 28 Oct 2017, 07:52 pm »
The IDA-16 would be even a better choice but that might push his budget.

There are of them on Audiogon for $2000.  8)

Hey Wind Chaser,
****Oops, sorry, they are available new on Audiogon for $1995. When I see Audiogon the first thing I think of is used. My bad.*****
New the IDA-16 is $1995. I think it's one of the best deals out there at the moment. :thumb:
This is where I purchased mine:

https://sonicunity.com/collections/amplifiers/products/nuprime-ida-16

Cheers,

Scott



rebbi

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #34 on: 28 Oct 2017, 10:31 pm »
Hey rebbi,

Since you are looking at Nuprime you might want to also consider the IDA-16. With the 3.0Ohm low and the two 15" woofers the 200 watts from the IDA-16 might be advantageous.

I've had the IDA-16 since April with Bowers and Wilkins 683 S2s which also dip to a 3 Ohm low and it's handled them with ease. From my experience the IDA-16 is neutral and balanced. The build quality and functionality are excellent (it has one of the best volume controls  I've ever used).

The review by Vince Hanada at Soundstage is excellent and sums it up very well.

http://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/607-nuprime-ida-16-integrated-amplifier-dac

Hey rebbi, I think you and I owned Merlin TSMs at the same time a few years back. Good to "see" you.

Cheers,

Scott

Yes, I remember your nickname, too – I think we have corresponded in the past. Good to “see” you again, too. 

I.Greyhound Fan


DavidS

Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #36 on: 29 Oct 2017, 03:56 am »
I originally ran my M3 Turbo S with a blue circle DAR integrated.  The sound was good - these speakers do seem to want a bit of power.  I have since moved onto Dan Sachs separates - which is different league - but loved the DAR and imagine new Blue Circle integrateds would be pretty nice with these speakers.

rebbi

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #37 on: 30 Oct 2017, 01:31 am »
Anybody using a Peachtree Nova 150 or 300?

md92468

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #38 on: 30 Oct 2017, 03:52 pm »
Hey Rebbi - I was not impressed with the Nova 150 / Spatial M4T combo. Great bass response, but dry and kind of boring.

Another option to consider is the Belles Aria...I've never heard it with the Spatials, but it sounded amazing with a pair of Vandersteen 1Cis. Excellent phono on board, too. If i was in the market, I'd choose the Belles over the Nuprime or the Peachtree. YMMV, of course.

rebbi

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Re: Integrated amp recommendations for M3 Turbo S?
« Reply #39 on: 30 Oct 2017, 03:56 pm »
Hey Rebbi - I was not impressed with the Nova 150 / Spatial M4T combo. Great bass response, but dry and kind of boring.

Another option to consider is the Belles Aria...I've never heard it with the Spatials, but it sounded amazing with a pair of Vandersteen 1Cis. Excellent phono on board, too. If i was in the market, I'd choose the Belles over the Nuprime or the Peachtree. YMMV, of course.

Good to know, thanks.
Also taking a look, seriously, at that Yamaha integrated amplifier (A-S1100 ) that someone recommended earlier. Looks like a beautiful piece and there are some good, used deals out there.